Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

[Guest guest]

praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

 

I need some assistance and prayers please.

I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the

staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of " intimidating " the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up...

The other staff that night were also " Catholic " , and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.

Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB,

APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

This sounds like EIFWAIL, and I guess their answers to the bigger questions would have to do with the alleged psych health benefits to the mother. I’m skeptical that such benefits exist – I certainly don’t think this could possibly be more beneficial than a good perinatal hospice program – and in any case I don’t see how anyone could argue with a straight face that this is other than abortion (which of course can itself cause psych harm). Notwithstanding all that, it has been happening in some nominally Catholic hospitals. But I don’t think that any person of good will could participate in such a thing.

From: & Dan O'C.

Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:49 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

, As you well know, an anencephalic baby is no risk to the mother’s life. Terminating it is desinged to relieve her of having to wait for term and then facing either a dead or dying baby. See Perinatal Hospice for alternative approaches. You’re in a difficult position, but totally correct not only with the Lord, who decides life and death for Himself and doesn’t want us to think we’re equal to Him, as well as with sound obstetrics. Anencephaly is very painful for the parents, but killing their baby is even more so. Persevere! With prayers, Hanna Klaus, M.D. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of & Dan O'C.Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote: I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of " intimidating " the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also " Catholic " , and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

was this a Catholic hospital?

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

405-947-2228 (office)

405-834-7506 (cell)

405-947-2307 (FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termin

ation, and what's the harm in carrying to term?

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please.

I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff to

ld me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up...

The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned.

Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.

Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.

Thanks

Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSN

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

If possible, please refer these parents to Be Not Afraid. They are a peer ministry outreach for parents who want to carry to term. http://benotafraid.net/ There is complicated grief involved with these poor prenatal diagnosis when the parents have a hand in decision to terminate the life of their child. Parents who carry to term, handle the loss of their child better. These parents need to know that! RE: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

, As you well know, an anencephalic baby is no risk to the mother’s life. Terminating it is desinged to relieve her of having to wait for term and then facing either a dead or dying baby. See Perinatal Hospice for alternative approaches. You’re in a difficult position, but totally correct not only with the Lord, who decides life and death for Himself and doesn’t want us to think we’re equal to Him, as well as with sound obstetrics. Anencephaly is very painful for the parents, but killing their baby is even more so. Persevere! With prayers, Hanna Klaus, M.D. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of & Dan O'C.Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote: I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

Not a Catholic Hospital. Inductions are started at night so the babies will deliver during the day...Thanks for the prayers. From: Dominic <pedullad@...>

was this a Catholic hospital?

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of & Dan O'C.

the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termin

ation,

[Guest guest]

Contact Jill Stanek- went through same trial.www.jillstanek.com " I am not a beatnik, I am a Catholic."Jack Kerouac

From: Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> " " < > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the

staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB,

APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

[Guest guest]

To add to the canonical info that has been posted (I deleted that email on my phone and thus don’t now have access to it – sorry about that) – specifically, to substantiate the claim that early induction of an anencephalic fetus is indeed abortion (which some might try to deny):

See the USCCB’s Ethical & Religious Directives (5th ed., 2009):

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/health-care/upload/Ethical-Religious-Directives-Catholic-Health-Care-Services-fifth-edition-2009.pdf,

esp. nos. 45, 47, 49.

Note in #45 – “Abortion (that is, the directly intended termination of pregnancy before viability or the directly intended destruction of a viable fetus) is never permitted.” The definition of abortion between parentheses there is important – before viability, even if one is simply performing a “termination of pregnancy” – even without an act of obvious “destruction” of the embryo or fetus – one is performing an abortion.

It is not clear that an anencephalic fetus is ever “viable” – thus terminating the pregnancy by doing early induction might constitute termination before viability – and thus be an abortion.

Nor is #47 a workable “loophole” in the case of anencephaly – however psychologically traumatic carrying a anencephalic baby might be, this cannot reasonably be called the sort of “proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman,” the cure of which “cannot safely be postponed until the unborn child is viable.” Pregnancy with a severely disabled baby is not a “pathological condition of the pregnant woman.” Psychological distress is, but induction does not have its “direct purpose the cure of” this distress – it is only by means of the ending of the pregnancy and the death of the baby that any (hypothetical) relief of this distress might be accomplished. And even putting this point aside – even assuming (wrongly) for the sake of argument that early induction directly addresses the distress – the cure of this distress is not a good proportionate to the evil of the baby’s premature death.

Nor does #49 help. Even if it is true (contrary to what I said above) that an anencephalic fetus is (late in pregnancy) viable, there is (again) no “proportionate reason” for early induction. Again, the (alleged) psychological relief for the mother is not proportionate to the death of the baby.

Finally, all this goes double given that there is an alternative – which doesn’t cause the baby’s premature death at all – and which I would suspect would be a significantly more likely/effective treatment for the mother’s psychological distress – namely, perinatal hospice or something like it.

And – in fact – it turns out that back in 1996 the USCCB issued a statement on cases of anencephaly – drawing from an earlier edition of the ERDs that has the same wording in the relevant places as does the current version – and making basically the same points that I’ve made:

http://old.usccb.org/doctrine/anencephaly.shtml

So – while I know nothing about the legal resources that might be available to assist in pressing a claim of conscience on this matter – one could certainly correctly argue, as part of pressing this claim, that one’s refusal to be part of early induction is fully in keeping with the clear teaching of the Catholic bishops of the US.

From: & Dan O'C.

Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:49 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

fec

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who have offered prayers and links to resources. They have all been very helpful. I actually somewhat anticipated some spiritual battle and persecution shortly.At our Annual Meeting of the American College of Nurses Midwives, a couple of us put together a caucus that now will have official input to things the ACNM does or says. It does not mean they will follow what we recommend, but they do have to pay attention and run things by us. "Midwives in Support of Life", from conception until natural death. I was elected as Chair, being one of the "instigators" of this group. Other CNM's in our national ACNM membership are very liberal, pro abortion/pro choice, many are lesbian, some practice Wicca and New Age religions .... I could go on. There are of course very many midwives who have a Christian faith, Jewish faith, some Muslim, Hindu...Some just quietly doing what they really think is best.There is obviously a spiritual warfare going on, and as usual, I seem to be right smack dab in the middle of it. I've put off the meeting with my director for a week. I think I might touch base with the HR department on this issue in the meantime.Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Re: Fw: Assistance and prayers please

praying for you . This can't be easy. And the bigger questions are, why at night do they need to do the elective termination, and what's the harm in carrying to term?

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up... The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

fec