Re: Re: Defending Marriage

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, it is what should be held up as the ideal, true model which we should all strive for -- that is the bar -- not the worst of something. And let me just tell you that as a family physician, the most miserable type of patient I see is the single parent. They are exhausted working, trying to be both mom and dad, and they KNOW they are falling way short of the ideal... Blessings, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: "cindy4lifeoconnor" <oconnor1124@...>Sender: Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:16:24 -0000< >Reply Subject: Re: Defending Marriage Kathy, I posted an edited version of and your replies to this on my facebook page, and these are the responses that I'm now facing: Jenna s My daughters are intentionally denied the care of their father. What say you about single mothers? Is there a special 'copy and paste' for that too?15 hours ago · LikeMatt Lett So, basically, even the worst heterosexual marriage is better than any homosexual marriage at all? I don't see any validity here.14 hours ago · Like · 1nne Guillard-Patton Discrimination is the invalid argument. Actually, that entire paragraph [4] is an invalid argument; it would have to be that every couple you know are good parents in order for it to be a valid argument (which can't possibly be the case--i.e., all parents are good parents). I think the writer (not sure if it's you) also meant to write " gendered " (social concept) instead of " sexualized " (biological). To engender something is to imply that kids need to be guided by feminine mothers and masculine fathers (specific, gendered roles--SAHM, workplace fathers, etc.). I'll respectfully debate-- which is easy because we're both in positions of power here, as people in hetero marriages that are recognized & have legal benefits--on well written arguments. I can't find that in what's presented here.12 hours ago · Like · 1

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Yes – and what does “What say you about single mothers? Is there a special 'copy and paste' for that too?” mean, anyway? At any rate – single parenthood is a situation in which people sometimes, unfortunately, not because of any choices of their own, find themselves – i.e., due to being widowed or abandoned. That’s hardly comparable to the choice of being same-sex “parents.” A better comparison would be those who choose either to be single mothers, or to put themselves in situations in which single motherhood is a likely outcome (i.e., by fornicating). And, indeed, those sorts of choices are bad for everyone involved and for society – the fact that people sometimes make them doesn’t mean we should accept “gay parenting.”

(By the way, I think that even allowing single people to adopt is borderline questionable ... one might reasonably justify it on the grounds that sometimes there will not be a couple wanting to adopt a child and in that case one parent is better for the child than none ... but I think it does need to be recognize that it might be the top of a slippery slope that leads to acceptance of adoption by same-sex couples, at least in our very unhealthy culture, if not in an ideal culture.)

Here, by the way, is another item of possible interest – “The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage,” by an MIT doctoral student in economics:

http://tech.mit.edu/V124/N5/kolasinski.5c.html

But – looking at the responses that you got – I’m just thinking ... I’ve been teaching university students for a while now – not forever, but for a while – 13 years full-time and a couple of years part-time before that. I think I’m fairly good at recognizing what type of “question” is someone is asking me – i.e. – whether it is an honest question (“Help me to understand ___”), or a dishonest one (“Oh yeah?!? Well, what about THIS – what’s your response?!? Huh?!? HUH?!?”). I think you’re getting mostly the latter rather than the former type. I.e. – the first two responses below are not logically connected with anything that you and others here have been saying. The third one is not only illogical but also a bunch of meaningless (or worse) ideological jargon (I think I’ve spent enough time studying and teaching and writing about philosophy and theology to be qualified to offer that assessment). Those things are the signs of involuntarily sloppy thinking at best (and it’s hard to argue a complex issue with someone who isn’t able to think clearly), flat-out intellectual dishonesty at worse. Probably what’s most needed when it comes to dealing with people like this – and there are very many of them in our society – is prayer and fasting.

From: rbamer2@...

Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Defending Marriage

, it is what should be held up as the ideal, true model which we should all strive for -- that is the bar -- not the worst of something. And let me just tell you that as a family physician, the most miserable type of patient I see is the single parent. They are exhausted working, trying to be both mom and dad, and they KNOW they are falling way short of the ideal... Blessings, rebecca Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

From: "cindy4lifeoconnor" <oconnor1124@...>

Sender:

Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:16:24 -0000

< >

Reply

Subject: Re: Defending Marriage

Kathy, I posted an edited version of and your replies to this on my facebook page, and these are the responses that I'm now facing: Jenna s My daughters are intentionally denied the care of their father. What say you about single mothers? Is there a special 'copy and paste' for that too?15 hours ago · LikeMatt Lett So, basically, even the worst heterosexual marriage is better than any homosexual marriage at all? I don't see any validity here.14 hours ago · Like · 1nne Guillard-Patton Discrimination is the invalid argument. Actually, that entire paragraph [4] is an invalid argument; it would have to be that every couple you know are good parents in order for it to be a valid argument (which can't possibly be the case--i.e., all parents are good parents). I think the writer (not sure if it's you) also meant to write "gendered" (social concept) instead of "sexualized" (biological). To engender something is to imply that kids need to be guided by feminine mothers and masculine fathers (specific, gendered roles--SAHM, workplace fathers, etc.). I'll respectfully debate-- which is easy because we're both in positions of power here, as people in hetero marriages that are recognized & have legal benefits--on well written arguments. I can't find that in what's presented here.12 hours ago · Like · 1

[Guest guest]

can I ask you to send me your linacre quarterly article as a PDF?Sent from my iPhoneOn May 12, 2012, at 8:31 AM, rbamer2@... wrote:

, it is what should be held up as the ideal, true model which we should all strive for -- that is the bar -- not the worst of something. And let me just tell you that as a family physician, the most miserable type of patient I see is the single parent. They are exhausted working, trying to be both mom and dad, and they KNOW they are falling way short of the ideal... Blessings, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT & TFrom: "cindy4lifeoconnor" <oconnor1124@...>

Sender:

Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:16:24 -0000< >Reply

Subject: Re: Defending Marriage

Kathy, I posted an edited version of and your replies to this on my facebook page, and these are the responses that I'm now facing:

Jenna s My daughters are intentionally denied the care of their father. What say you about single mothers? Is there a special 'copy and paste' for that too?

15 hours ago · Like

Matt Lett So, basically, even the worst heterosexual marriage is better than any homosexual marriage at all? I don't see any validity here.

14 hours ago · Like · 1

nne Guillard-Patton Discrimination is the invalid argument. Actually, that entire paragraph [4] is an invalid argument; it would have to be that every couple you know are good parents in order for it to be a valid argument (which can't possibly be the case--i.e., all parents are good parents). I think the writer (not sure if it's you) also meant to write "gendered" (social concept) instead of "sexualized" (biological). To engender something is to imply that kids need to be guided by feminine mothers and masculine fathers (specific, gendered roles--SAHM, workplace fathers, etc.). I'll respectfully debate-- which is easy because we're both in positions of power here, as people in hetero marriages that are recognized & have legal benefits--on well written arguments. I can't find that in what's presented here.

12 hours ago · Like · 1

[Guest guest]

Thank you , Fr. , , and all others who have been helping me with trying to educate or " re-educate " some of my friends in the faith. I feel like I should be able to be doing such a better job, but I know that some of my catechesis has been lacking, and I'm still growing in my faith - I'm a revert of almost 4 yrs. I really do appreciate and value everyone's input. , thank you especially for last response. It is helpful because that last " friend " of mine went to Catholic grade school with me, then her parents moved, and because of a response from a Msgr to a question about the child abuse scandals, they all left the Church. She is now a professor of Women's Studies at some college/university (I'm not sure which) in Richmond. I LOVE the passion of faith and the quest for truth in this group. 

Warmly, O'Connor, RN, BSNOn Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Kathy Schmugge <famlifecor@...> wrote:

 

[Guest guest]

Dear All,Thanking God for each of you today: some bring to the group great diagnostic abilities, some bring very helpful theological insights, and others have such a heart for spreading the Good News to all. May we continue to encourage one another in this journey to support the family.God's peace and joy,KathyFrom: " & Dan O'C."

Sent: May 13, 2012 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Defending Marriage

Thank you , Fr. , , and all others who have been helping me with trying to educate or "re-educate" some of my friends in the faith. I feel like I should be able to be doing such a better job, but I know that some of my catechesis has been lacking, and I'm still growing in my faith - I'm a revert of almost 4 yrs. I really do appreciate and value everyone's input. , thank you especially for last response. It is helpful because that last "friend" of mine went to Catholic grade school with me, then her parents moved, and because of a response from a Msgr to a question about the child abuse scandals, they all left the Church. She is now a professor of Women's Studies at some college/university (I'm not sure which) in Richmond. I LOVE the passion of faith and the quest for truth in this group.

Warmly, O'Connor, RN, BSNOn Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Kathy Schmugge <famlifecor@...> wrote: