Re: Brain and spirit, Consciousness and self-awareness discussions

[Guest guest]

Wanted to say I've been appreciating this conversation, though I haven't

been an active participant.

Am interested in exploring that space where scientific and mystical

approaches both reach but can't quite grasp...

Re: Brain and spirit

>I agree with your two cents. Well put. So given this model, is there a

> way to explain autism without invoking a brain that is hardwired

> differently than in NTs?

>

> My own guess involves reincarnation of the spirit, which carries with

> it impressions from past lives. Perhaps Aspies and auties incarnated

> recently in other places. Now they find themselves here and have a

> difficult time adjusting to their new bodies and this world.

>

> Ken

>

>

>> Here is my two cents.

>>

>> I think the brain is the main controller for the body and all

> expressions

>> through it. It also is reponsible for what we refer to as thinking.

> This is why

>> if something goes wrong with the brain, like a stroke, that the

> person has

>> trouble operating their body and with Alzheimers they have trouble

> thinking.

>>

>> As for the spirit, I don't think it resides in the body. Rather, the

> body

>> resides in the spirit. When people speak of the aura, what they

> really are

>> reffering to is the person's spirit. The spirit is not a shell

> around the body

>> but rather exists around and within the body, like the body isn't

> big enough

>> container to hold it all.

>>

>> Now, I have read accounts of people who had some physical brain

> ailments

>> that have astral projected. When they were out, they were not

> affected by those

>> problem anymore and thought as clearly or moreso than they ever did

> in the

>> body. I think there is a reason for this. Since the spirit is

> anchored to the

>> living body, of course it would be affected, to a degree, by

> whatever happens

>> to the body. Since the spirit is a higher order part of us, it

> would make

>> sense that it would be most closely tied to the brain. While the

> spirit is tied

>> to the body, it is limited by the abilities and sense of the brain.

> Once it

>> slips those bonds, the spirit no longer has a body as such to worry

> about, so

>> all that capacity is freed up. Without the tenuous connections of

> nerves and

>> influence of ever changing hormones, it is no wonder the spirit

> seems to

>> operate so much more smoothly.

>>

>> So simply put: as long as the spirit remains attached to the body,

> it is

>> dependant on the physical systems of the body. Once it is separated,

> it isn't

>> and can function in new ways.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support

> and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

> folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

[Guest guest]

These discussions and theories are fun, but ultimately they're like

rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Ultimately there's only

OOOMMMMMMMM. Fire sale, everything must go, even the fixtures. Sorry

if this is a bit cryptic.

Ken

> >> Here is my two cents.

> >>

> >> I think the brain is the main controller for the body and all

> > expressions

> >> through it. It also is reponsible for what we refer to as thinking.

> > This is why

> >> if something goes wrong with the brain, like a stroke, that the

> > person has

> >> trouble operating their body and with Alzheimers they have trouble

> > thinking.

> >>

> >> As for the spirit, I don't think it resides in the body. Rather, the

> > body

> >> resides in the spirit. When people speak of the aura, what they

> > really are

> >> reffering to is the person's spirit. The spirit is not a shell

> > around the body

> >> but rather exists around and within the body, like the body isn't

> > big enough

> >> container to hold it all.

> >>

> >> Now, I have read accounts of people who had some physical brain

> > ailments

> >> that have astral projected. When they were out, they were not

> > affected by those

> >> problem anymore and thought as clearly or moreso than they ever did

> > in the

> >> body. I think there is a reason for this. Since the spirit is

> > anchored to the

> >> living body, of course it would be affected, to a degree, by

> > whatever happens

> >> to the body. Since the spirit is a higher order part of us, it

> > would make

> >> sense that it would be most closely tied to the brain. While the

> > spirit is tied

> >> to the body, it is limited by the abilities and sense of the brain.

> > Once it

> >> slips those bonds, the spirit no longer has a body as such to worry

> > about, so

> >> all that capacity is freed up. Without the tenuous connections of

> > nerves and

> >> influence of ever changing hormones, it is no wonder the spirit

> > seems to

> >> operate so much more smoothly.

> >>

> >> So simply put: as long as the spirit remains attached to the body,

> > it is

> >> dependant on the physical systems of the body. Once it is separated,

> > it isn't

> >> and can function in new ways.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support

> > and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

> >

> > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the

> > folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

> >

[Guest guest]

>Ken writes: OOOMMMMMMMMUHmmmmmm, I see you speak, uhmmmmm, southern Californian! I thought I heard you think something like we might learn lessons in this incarnation that we might not have to experience in the next, that is to say, leaving behind, once and for all, karmic trash, once transmuted to goodness.  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Yeah, if we really learn the lessons. Easier said than done. Oh, well,

no one ever promised it would be easy, but it's the only game in town.

Ken

> >Ken writes: OOOMMMMMMMM

>

> UHmmmmmm, I see you speak, uhmmmmm, southern Californian! I thought I

> heard you think something like we might learn lessons in this

> incarnation that we might not have to experience in the next, that is

> to say, leaving behind, once and for all, karmic trash, once

> transmuted to goodness.

> Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Nope I earned to speak in the Silicon Valley. Just moved south.

Ken

> >Ken writes: OOOMMMMMMMM

>

> UHmmmmmm, I see you speak, uhmmmmm, southern Californian! I thought I

> heard you think something like we might learn lessons in this

> incarnation that we might not have to experience in the next, that is

> to say, leaving behind, once and for all, karmic trash, once

> transmuted to goodness.

> Rainbow

[Guest guest]

To me - as for many of the Ancient Greeks, da Vinci, Goethe et al - the

separation between science, philosophy, psychology, ethics, art and religion

is non-existent and illusory.

Wasn't there an article some years back when leading scientists together

published an article saying that when they had taken science as far as they

were able, they arrived at the conclusion that the Universe is way too

mathematically harmonious and purposeful for it to be simple chance or

natural forces playing randomly. That they could draw no other conclusions

from their scientific findings that that there must have been a mind and a

plan behind all they could observe.

Adding beauty to the equation, the philosopher Maurice Maetterlinck also

came to the same conclusion in his lovely little book " The Secret Life of

Plants. "

My own religion/philosophy - Pythagorean Hylozoics - is based on mathematics

and explains things in a logical and scientific manner more suitable for the

Western mindset than Oriental religions, though containg much of the same

wisdom (which is considered to all come from the same source anyway). I'm

also somewhat Christian at heart (though closer to the Gnostic flavor than

to later versions of Christianity) and see no conflict in that. And on top

of this I'm also a bit Agnostic, since I can't really know anything for

sure. :-)

My beliefs are based on a combination of logical probabilities, personal

experiences which have confirmed some of what I've read (making it more

likely that the rest is true too) and the faith I feel deep in my heart. I

need all 3 to really believe. Just one of them is not enough.

Inger

Re: Brain and spirit

>I agree with your two cents. Well put. So given this model, is there a

> way to explain autism without invoking a brain that is hardwired

> differently than in NTs?

>

> My own guess involves reincarnation of the spirit, which carries with

> it impressions from past lives. Perhaps Aspies and auties incarnated

> recently in other places. Now they find themselves here and have a

> difficult time adjusting to their new bodies and this world.

>

> Ken

>

>

>> Here is my two cents.

>>

>> I think the brain is the main controller for the body and all

> expressions

>> through it. It also is reponsible for what we refer to as thinking.

> This is why

>> if something goes wrong with the brain, like a stroke, that the

> person has

>> trouble operating their body and with Alzheimers they have trouble

> thinking.

>>

>> As for the spirit, I don't think it resides in the body. Rather, the

> body

>> resides in the spirit. When people speak of the aura, what they

> really are

>> reffering to is the person's spirit. The spirit is not a shell

> around the body

>> but rather exists around and within the body, like the body isn't

> big enough

>> container to hold it all.

>>

>> Now, I have read accounts of people who had some physical brain

> ailments

>> that have astral projected. When they were out, they were not

> affected by those

>> problem anymore and thought as clearly or moreso than they ever did

> in the

>> body. I think there is a reason for this. Since the spirit is

> anchored to the

>> living body, of course it would be affected, to a degree, by

> whatever happens

>> to the body. Since the spirit is a higher order part of us, it

> would make

>> sense that it would be most closely tied to the brain. While the

> spirit is tied

>> to the body, it is limited by the abilities and sense of the brain.

> Once it

>> slips those bonds, the spirit no longer has a body as such to worry

> about, so

>> all that capacity is freed up. Without the tenuous connections of

> nerves and

>> influence of ever changing hormones, it is no wonder the spirit

> seems to

>> operate so much more smoothly.

>>

>> So simply put: as long as the spirit remains attached to the body,

> it is

>> dependant on the physical systems of the body. Once it is separated,

> it isn't

>> and can function in new ways.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support

> and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

> folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

[Guest guest]

Your might be interested in a great new book I just started: The Road

to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe " by

Penrose, Oxford Univ. mathematician. He is interested in the nature of

consciousness, but the book is mainly about advanced physics. He was

warned by many people not to include mathematics because he would lose

most of his audience. But he insisted that he could not do the subject

justice without including fairly advanced math. He does provide the

background needed for the math-challenged to get what he is saying.

You can follow this link for an audio lecture he gave on a way to

scientifically approach the nature of consciousness. I like what he

said. http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/plecture/penrose/

On the question of science versus religion versus et al., I think it

depends a lot on where your head is at. There are many levels and

types of awareness. Some people spend lots of time with their

emotions, others with their thoughts and ideas, still others with just

being present and dealing with whatever presents itself. For these

last types, it's just a small step to unity-consciousness, which

focuses on the ocean rather than the waves. The waves of science,

religion, et al. are still there, but no more permanent or meaningful

than waves on the ocean. In the depths, the waves are far away.

I suspect that Aspies are especially able to access pure awareness.

The main thing standing in the way are the wounds we carry from

childhood and trying to make our way in an NT world. What I've been

dealing with lately is trying to face my feelings and go deeper into

them rather than running away by keeping my mind busy with other things.

Science and math and medicine are very useful, but they all resolve

into pure awareness when we surrender our engagement with the waves

(just for a little while). It's all there and all true, nirvana and

samsara.

Ken

> >> Here is my two cents.

> >>

> >> I think the brain is the main controller for the body and all

> > expressions

> >> through it. It also is reponsible for what we refer to as thinking.

> > This is why

> >> if something goes wrong with the brain, like a stroke, that the

> > person has

> >> trouble operating their body and with Alzheimers they have trouble

> > thinking.

> >>

> >> As for the spirit, I don't think it resides in the body. Rather, the

> > body

> >> resides in the spirit. When people speak of the aura, what they

> > really are

> >> reffering to is the person's spirit. The spirit is not a shell

> > around the body

> >> but rather exists around and within the body, like the body isn't

> > big enough

> >> container to hold it all.

> >>

> >> Now, I have read accounts of people who had some physical brain

> > ailments

> >> that have astral projected. When they were out, they were not

> > affected by those

> >> problem anymore and thought as clearly or moreso than they ever did

> > in the

> >> body. I think there is a reason for this. Since the spirit is

> > anchored to the

> >> living body, of course it would be affected, to a degree, by

> > whatever happens

> >> to the body. Since the spirit is a higher order part of us, it

> > would make

> >> sense that it would be most closely tied to the brain. While the

> > spirit is tied

> >> to the body, it is limited by the abilities and sense of the brain.

> > Once it

> >> slips those bonds, the spirit no longer has a body as such to worry

> > about, so

> >> all that capacity is freed up. Without the tenuous connections of

> > nerves and

> >> influence of ever changing hormones, it is no wonder the spirit

> > seems to

> >> operate so much more smoothly.

> >>

> >> So simply put: as long as the spirit remains attached to the body,

> > it is

> >> dependant on the physical systems of the body. Once it is separated,

> > it isn't

> >> and can function in new ways.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support

> > and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

> >

> > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the

> > folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

> >