Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

May 4, 2012

,Thanks again for the informative response. Because the religious/ non-religious issue doesn't apply to NFP and FA, what would you say the differences are? Is it only a difference in name?

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Hanna Klaus <hannaklaus@...> wrote:

Beyond what Fehring has written, NFP instruction programs which are sponsored by the Catholic Church will include not only what has already been well described, but speak about the Sacrament of Matrimony and the religious implications of the marital relationship. You can go online and find the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then go to Marriage… you’ll find lots.

Hanna Klaus

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of akayh421

Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:48 PM Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 4, 2012

:

I was thinking about your questions this morning – while biking (pedal not Harley) to work. NFP is essentially the ability to track and estimate the fertile

phase of the menstrual cycle by use of natural indictors of fertility (i.e., temp, mucus, urinary hormones). With the information as to when the fertile phase occurs the woman and her partner (i.e., spouse) can then decide to use that information to either

achieve or avoid pregnancy. NFP states that to avoid – the couple does not use barriers or withdrawal during the fertile phase – but instead abstain from intercourse.

Monitoring fertility and abstaining does not make NFP Catholic – but it does follow Catholic beliefs – but also natural law and personalistic philosophy –

and I would say the Green movement type beliefs – e.g., not putting artificial hormones/steriods into one’s body, the water system, and/or polluting the world with latex.

FA also involves monitoring fertility – but, for some, also includes (the choice) to use condoms or other barriers or withdrawal during the fertile phase –

but that choice again has a consequence of not being honest with the language of the body of giving totally of oneself to one another. It also separates fertility from sexuality – which is not integrative or as nature intended/designed.

Catholics and others who provide NFP services do not force couples not to use condoms or withdrawal – and I suspect plenty of their couple/clients/patients

do use those means even if taught by Catholic systems. However, NFP teachers (whether Catholic or not) do let couples know that use of NFP (including periodic abstinence) is enriching of the human person, the marital relationship, and is integrative and healthy.

Hopefully NFP teachers are always inviting in the proper use of NFP and not condemning.

FA with the choice to use condoms or withdrawal or other barriers – is based on a belief and value system that has a false sense of freedom, i.e., that as adults

we can do anything we wish as long as we do not hurt others --or a belief in “it is our bodies and we have the freedom to use our bodies as we see fit.” To me that is a value system that is void of a strong ethical/moral base and one that blows with the

winds of relativism, i.e., no ethical boundaries other than – I am really not sure. I suspect that those who provide FA from that value system also feel that they are being open minded, non-judgmental, and liberal/progressive thinkers. But if you think about

it – FA guided condom use – is somewhat distrustful of the body and places trust in the latex condom – and does nothing to help the couple develop self-mastery.

There really is a wide anthropological difference/chasm between use of NFP and use of FA guided barrier use.

I wish you well with your assignment and discernment.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Hartman

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:11 PM

Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

,

Thanks again for the informative response. Because the religious/ non-religious issue doesn't apply to NFP and FA, what would you say the differences are? Is it only a difference in name?

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Hanna Klaus <hannaklaus@...> wrote:

Beyond what Fehring has written, NFP instruction programs which are sponsored by the Catholic Church will include not only

what has already been well described, but speak about the Sacrament of Matrimony and the religious implications of the marital relationship. You can go online and find the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then go to Marriage… you’ll find lots.

Hanna Klaus

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of akayh421

Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:48 PM

Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge?

Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 5, 2012

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce

the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy.

I think the biggest

difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting

on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 5, 2012

Dear a,

May i use your response to for a project I am currently involved in? I think it is just great. And, it is also fitting to add the Great's thoughts on Periodic Continence and NFP:

"Periodic continence as a method of regulating conception...not only...preserves the "naturalness" of intercourse, but...must be grounded in...virtue...The love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention..but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is...in affirmation of the value of the person and not...in sexual attachment." (Love & Responsibility)

and also:

"When a man and a woman who have marital intercourse decisively preclude the possibility of paternity and maternity, their intentions are thereby diverted from the person and directed to mere enjoyment: "the person as co-creator of love" disappears and there remains only the "partner in an erotic experience" (p.234, Love & Responsibility)

Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP Instructor

Pecks Family Practice, PLC

1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2A

Ormond Beach, FL 32174

(386) 677-2018 fax: (386) 676-0737 cell: (386) 212-9777

From: NFP Lethbridge <nfplethbridge@...> Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 2:16 AMSubject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception)

and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience.

Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple

that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 5, 2012

Certainly.a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: rbamer2@...Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 07:27:13 -0700Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

Dear a,

May i use your response to for a project I am currently involved in? I think it is just great. And, it is also fitting to add the Great's thoughts on Periodic Continence and NFP:

"Periodic continence as a method of regulating conception...not only...preserves the "naturalness" of intercourse, but...must be grounded in...virtue...The love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention..but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is...in affirmation of the value of the person and not...in sexual attachment." (Love & Responsibility)

and also:

"When a man and a woman who have marital intercourse decisively preclude the possibility of paternity and maternity, their intentions are thereby diverted from the person and directed to mere enjoyment: "the person as co-creator of love" disappears and there remains only the "partner in an erotic experience" (p.234, Love & Responsibility)

Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP Instructor

Pecks Family Practice, PLC

1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2A

Ormond Beach, FL 32174

(386) 677-2018 fax: (386) 676-0737 cell: (386) 212-9777

From: NFP Lethbridge <nfplethbridge@...> Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 2:16 AMSubject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception)

and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience.

Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple

that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

Thank you a and for your responses as well! I appreciate the both your perspectives and thoughts.Does anyone know of any online resources or books that speak of NFP in non-Catholic terms?

Thanks!On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 12:41 PM, a V <nfplethbridge@...> wrote:

Certainly.a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: rbamer2@...Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 07:27:13 -0700Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

Dear a,

May i use your response to for a project I am currently involved in? I think it is just great. And, it is also fitting to add the Great's thoughts on Periodic Continence and NFP:

" Periodic continence as a method of regulating conception...not only...preserves the " naturalness " of intercourse, but...must be grounded in...virtue...The love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention..but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is...in affirmation of the value of the person and not...in sexual attachment. " (Love & Responsibility)

and also:

" When a man and a woman who have marital intercourse decisively preclude the possibility of paternity and maternity, their intentions are thereby diverted from the person and directed to mere enjoyment: " the person as co-creator of love " disappears and there remains only the " partner in an erotic experience " (p.234, Love & Responsibility)

Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP Instructor

Pecks Family Practice, PLC

1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2A

Ormond Beach, FL 32174

(386) 677-2018 fax: (386) 676-0737 cell: (386) 212-9777

From: NFP Lethbridge <nfplethbridge@...>

Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 2:16 AM

Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy.

I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception)

and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience.

Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility).

A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple

that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge.

a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

There are many posts that go to this discussion, however, I would like to propose that those of us who support NFP in its true sense use the word “postpone” rather than “avoid” to refer to those times when a couple discern to temporarily postponing their family. The word connotes the “temporary” status of that discernment while maintaining the lifestyle of being open to life. Avoid suggests another intent and, I believe, disavows the meaning of NFP. Not a big point, just one of my pet nuances!Les Ruppersberger From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods , Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

Dear Les,While i certainly agree with you whole-heartedly, i just wanted to point out that there are certain "definitions" of NFP which have been long established which use the tems "avoid" in these very defintions. I point to Theresa Notare (Assistant Director of the Diocesan Development Program for NFP, Secretariat for ProLife Activities of the USCCB): "...NFP is an umbrella term for certain methods used to achieve and avoid pregnancy. These methods are based on observation of the naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of a woman's menstrual cycle." And the WHO defined NFP in 1988: "Methods of NFP are based on observations of naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and

infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. Awareness of the fertile phase can allow a couple to time intercourse, either to avoid or achieve pregnancy..." And in 1972 the National Insittute of Child Health and Human developjment (under the NIH) along with Dr Urrichio and defined NFP as:"...NFP methods are means by which a couple uses the daily observations of signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle to guide the timing of intercourse according to their desire to achieve or avoid pregnancy" It is also interesting that many of these defintions emphasized that abstinence is a part of the method, hence the term periodic abstinence. Finally, I would end with a quote from Dr.

Uricchio, who was a Professor and Chairman of the Dep of Biology at Carlow College in Pittsburgh, PA and the past President of a group called the International Federation for Family Life Promotion (IFFLP) who was involved with promoting NFP worldwide. In his monograph on NFP, Dr. Urricchio stated that NFP is "more than a technique of fertility control...methods of NFP also involve the challenging task of education in which conjugal love is intimately linked with openness to life". (Module I, Introduction of NFP, Marquette Online Course for Medical Professionals (HEAL) Course) Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice, PLC1688 W

Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174(386) 677-2018 fax: (386) 676-0737 cell: (386) 212-9777 From: Les Ruppersberger <lruppersberger@...> Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:31 PM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

There are many posts that go to this discussion, however, I would like to propose that those of us who support NFP in its true sense use the word â€œpostponeâ€ rather than â€œavoidâ€ to refer to those times when a couple discern to temporarily postponing their family. The word connotes the â€œtemporaryâ€ status of that discernment while maintaining the lifestyle of being open to life. Avoid suggests another intent and, I believe, disavows the meaning of NFP. Not a big point, just one of my pet nuances!Les Ruppersberger From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods , Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid

pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics

are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations

tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of

those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

Thanks Completely understand your reply and your references; I do see those definitions and papers and, maybe I am nitpicking, but I think language is important and there is a subtle difference between avoid and postpone and I personally prefer that latter; I certainly donâ€™t expect the entire NFP world to change all their language, I was just respectfully expressing my personal opinion and I use that language when I teach clients.Â RespectullyLes From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of BameSent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods Dear Les,While i certainly agree with you whole-heartedly, i just wanted to point out that there are certain " definitions " of NFP which have been long established which use the tems " avoid " in these very defintions. I point to Theresa Notare (Assistant Director of the Diocesan Development Program for NFP, Secretariat for ProLife Activities of the USCCB): " ...NFP is an umbrella term for certain methods used to achieve and avoid pregnancy. These methods are based on observation of the naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of a woman's menstrual cycle. " And the WHO defined NFP in 1988: " Methods of NFP are based on observations of naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. Awareness of the fertile phase can allow a couple to time intercourse, either to avoid or achieve pregnancy... " And in 1972 the National Insittute of Child Health and Human developjment (under the NIH) along with Dr Urrichio and defined NFP as: " ...NFP methods are means by which a couple uses the daily observations of signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle to guide the timing of intercourse according to their desire to achieve or avoid pregnancy " It is also interesting that many of these defintions emphasized that abstinence is a part of the method, hence the term periodic abstinence. Finally, I would end with a quote from Dr. Uricchio, who was a Professor and Chairman of the Dep of Biology at Carlow College in Pittsburgh, PA and the past President of a group called the International Federation for Family Life Promotion (IFFLP) who was involved with promoting NFP worldwide. In his monograph on NFP, Dr. Urricchio stated that NFP is " more than a technique of fertility control...methods of NFP also involve the challenging task of education in which conjugal love is intimately linked with openness to life " . (Module I, Introduction of NFP, Marquette Online Course for Medical Professionals (HEAL) Course) Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice, PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174(386) 677-2018 fax: (386) 676-0737 cell: (386) 212-9777 From: Les Ruppersberger <lruppersberger@...> Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:31 PMSubject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods There are many posts that go to this discussion, however, I would like to propose that those of us who support NFP in its true sense use the word â€œpostponeâ€ rather than â€œavoidâ€ to refer to those times when a couple discern to temporarily postponing their family. The word connotes the â€œtemporaryâ€ status of that discernment while maintaining the lifestyle of being open to life. Avoid suggests another intent and, I believe, disavows the meaning of NFP. Not a big point, just one of my pet nuances!Les Ruppersberger From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods , Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

Les,It is a " big point " which I and the Catholic Church affirm.Fr. Tom BartolomeoOn Sun, May 6, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Les Ruppersberger <lruppersberger@...> wrote:

There are many posts that go to this discussion, however, I would like to propose that those of us who support NFP in its true sense use the word “postpone” rather than “avoid” to refer to those times when a couple discern to temporarily postponing their family. The word connotes the “temporary” status of that discernment while maintaining the lifestyle of being open to life. Avoid suggests another intent and, I believe, disavows the meaning of NFP. Not a big point, just one of my pet nuances!

Les Ruppersberger

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP Lethbridge

Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy.

I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility).

A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge.

a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 6, 2012

I'll second that.

NFP is available to postpone conception for serious reason. This implies that the reason is unwelcome such that the couple is naturally striving to diminish or eliminate it, because the reason is a cause for hardship/difficulty/stress/unhappiness, or whatever, and not just (or even primarily) because they want another child.

I'm a little sorry to be sounding like a broken record, BUT the message that a child--a new human life with an eternal soul--is THE SUPREME GIFT from an all-loving God does not always appear to me to resonate with NFP users and advocates. That understanding or philosophy is culturally unpopular, so it's acceptance/embrace has to be argued from reason, for most people, I think.

Blessings.

Steve Koob

From: tom.bartolomeo@...Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 23:02:32 -0400Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

Les,

It is a "big point" which I and the Catholic Church affirm.

Fr. Tom Bartolomeo

On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Les Ruppersberger <lruppersberger@...> wrote:

There are many posts that go to this discussion, however, I would like to propose that those of us who support NFP in its true sense use the word “postpone” rather than “avoid” to refer to those times when a couple discern to temporarily postponing their family. The word connotes the “temporary” status of that discernment while maintaining the lifestyle of being open to life. Avoid suggests another intent and, I believe, disavows the meaning of NFP. Not a big point, just one of my pet nuances!

Les Ruppersberger

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 7, 2012

With FAM, the woman can participate in the marital act at the time that she has biological interest (ovulation). With NFP, she is limited to those times where she may be biologically not in the mood. Some women have little interest outside of their ovulatory time and they feel doomed to a lifetime of "obligatory sex". As NFP instructors, we need to be honest about the good the bad and the ugly. As a lay NFP instructor, I have a hard time counseling women in this situation because I do feel sympathetic to their plight. Of course nothing is to stop them from participating in the marital act during ovulation.... but it does seem unfair to those women that they have two choices: potentially get pregnant & take on the physical discomfort of pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, etc or never get to enjoy sex. On

the flipside, with FAM the couple is taking on the additional risk of contraceptive failure at the height of their fertility.Elaine Mills

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

, Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic

abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in

self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have

the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod

From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 7, 2012

why are we discussing barrier methods on this list as any kind of viable option? Some cars may run a few miles on molasses, but it definitely is contrary to the car's operation isn't it. Then why discuss barriers as if it's only a question of how one can disrupt fertility and still enjoy sexuality? They are not, in fact, enjoying sexuality, in the classic sense; they rather are making a drug out of it.

Can we not do better than this on this group?

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

405-947-2228 (office)

405-834-7506 (cell)

405-947-2307 (FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods

I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 7, 2012

ManyÂ women find the interest in intercourse is highest premenstrually, Â at a time when estrogen and progesterone are low, and do not overshadow free testosterone,Â which is related to lobido.Â Not every woman finds the time of the slippery mucus theÂ time when she is most interested in sex. Hanna Klaus.M.D. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of elaine millsSent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods With FAM, the woman can participate in the marital act at the time that she has biological interest (ovulation). With NFP, she is limited to those times where she may be biologically not in the mood. Some women have little interest outside of their ovulatory time and they feel doomed to a lifetime of " obligatory sex " . As NFP instructors, we need to be honest about the good the bad and the ugly. As a lay NFP instructor, I have a hard time counseling women in this situation because I do feel sympathetic to their plight. Of course nothing is to stop them from participating in the marital act during ovulation.... but it does seem unfair to those women that they have two choices: potentially get pregnant & take on the physical discomfort of pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, etc or never get to enjoy sex. On the flipside, with FAM the couple is taking on the additional risk of contraceptive failure at the height of their fertility.Elaine Mills From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of NFP LethbridgeSent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 2:16 AM Subject: RE: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods , Certainly, NFP and Fertility Awareness Methods are similar. They all teach a couple to identify the woman's times of fertility and infertility, so that the information may be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy. The way fertility is monitored varies from method to method and the rules for avoiding pregnancy vary. Effectiveness rates vary, depending on each individual method or the barrier of choice for a couple using a Fertility Awareness Method. On the very practical level of effectiveness, abstinence on fertile days eliminates the possibility of conception. Barrier contraception on fertile days will reduce the possibility of conception. Both NFP and FAM agree that waiting on days with fertile signs is the more effective way to postpone pregnancy. I think the biggest difference of all would be in the behavior (periodic abstinence versus contraception) and it's effect on the relationship. Embracing periodic abstinence as per a method of NFP is markedly different experience than contracting on fertile days as per Fertility Awareness Methods. Very different dynamics are bound to emerge within the relationships, depending on which behavior they practice. Waiting on fertile days can challenge a couple to grow in other areas of their relationship - friendship, non-sexual affection, communication, etc. Of course, growing in all those areas will naturally lead to a more satisfying sexual experience when the time comes as well. They may find that re-uniting during the infertile phase is particularly special. If they find the waiting difficult, it may challenge them to communicate about some delicate issues in their relationship. Or it may also provide them an opportunity to support each other. They grow in self mastery and patience. Waiting teaches them to delay gratification for the greater good of each other or their family. Waiting may challenge them to re-examine their reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of important conversations tend to spring up when you're waiting! They usually grow to have a deeper respect for the experience of sexual love, regarding it more as a privilege and less as an entitlement. They are less inclined to take their sexual relationship for granted or become bored with it. Both spouses take responsibility for their own fertility by making the mutual decision to wait, rather than the burden of responsibility being all on one person. Sexual expression becomes the gift of each person as they are, to the other - without resisting any part of themselves or their partner (particularly, fertility). A couple using contraceptives on fertile days won't have the same experience as a couple that embraces periodic abstinence will, and vice versa. So NFP and FAM connect on the grounds of knowledge of fertility. The behaviors practiced in response to that knowledge (and the corresponding consequences of those behaviors) is where they diverge. a Van Uden, LPNAccredited Instructor, Billings Ovulation Methodwww.facebook.com/BillingsMethod From: akayh421@...Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:48:14 +0000Subject: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods I'm working on a project that compares NFP (all the different forms) with its secular counterpart--fertility awareness. What do you think are the biggest differences? What do you see as the pros/cons of each? Where do they connect? Where do they diverge? Any ideas, opinions or comments are welcome!

May 7, 2012

I think in this case it is helpful to look at the biological reality: the most natural thing in the world is to use the day of highest desire which, oddly enough, coincides with the time of highest fertility. Up until the twentieth century, that would have meant a high probability of nine months of pregnancy followed by a lengthy amenorreic period while the mother lactated. Once reliable barrier contraceptives became available, those high libido days could recur much more frequently than they had for our ancestors. Getting to use those days without getting pregnant is a 20th century development. It quickly became a cultural norm but it is by no means the natural order of things. I am sympathetic to the plight of those women who have low libido outside the time of ovulation, but what they want is something that no one had until very recently in human history. We have become very conditioned to the idea that it is our right to have access to that time without consequences. On the other hand, the situation of only being willing to engage in relations only one time per month is likely to cause problems for the couple eventually. It might behove the medical community to consider the value of helping women with low libido, though it also might be a good idea of everyone to consider what "low libido" really means: the definition seems to vary a great deal depending on who you are talking to. It may be that counseling (first question: is there a history of sexual abuse?) or medical advice is needed for the couple, It is certainly a moment when an NFP teacher should refer to the couple back to their physician. Lee Ann DoerflingerSTM teacher for the Archdiocese of Washington From: millselaine@...Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:05:46 -0700Subject: Re: Comparing NFP with Other Fertility Awareness Methods