Re: raw milk testing

[Guest guest]

Yes, Mark McAfee's motto is " trust Mother Nature, but verify " (by testing). You

are right, there is nothing that stops us from doing this. I am in favor of us

self-regulating. Many farmers already have a testing program in place. If you

are not sure, ask. If you don't like the answer, go somewhere else. That's how

it works, and it is part of being a responsible, educated consumer.

Also, Mark McAfee is selling raw milk commercially. He doesn't know everyone who

buys his milk and they don't all know him. It is a different situation, where

there is not a direct farm-to-consumer relationship. Please be cautious about

applying his situation to ours. Also keep in mind that he is a 6.5 MILLION

dollar operation!

Most small farmers around here, don't come near the $500,000 mark for them to

have to comply with the regulations of S510, as it was passed.

We already have the freedom to obtain and drink raw milk in MN. The bill that

has been introduced to the legislature has the purpose of making it more

convenient, by allowing the transport of it to the consumer. This is not milk

that is intended for pasteurization. This should be the same clean, organic,

nutrient-dense, health-giving, completely unprocessed, raw milk from healthy,

pastured cows.

Kathy

Niflis BSN, RN

Natural Health Educator

Optimal Health Connection

Woodbury, MN

www.optimalhealthconnection.com

[Guest guest]

I can understand why doctors would want certified milk before giving it to their

patients (huge liability there.) I can also understand people approving

of/demanding tested milk for their own consumption.

But what I hope we have learned from our events here with Mn Dept of Ag is that

one group of people does not have the right to impose their beliefs/ideals on

another; as Washington stated: " Government is not reason; it is not

eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful

master. " Many people (mistakingly) think that any and all (tested or not)

unpasteurized products are dangerous. Legislators and state employees think they

have the " duty " to protect us from ourselves and make new rules every day to do

so.

I would hope that those of us who demand testing and the associated costs should

respect the rights of those of us who do not, and not have it legislated that

all milk be tested with persecution for non-compliance. Because if it becomes

law that it must be tested, government or privately, then those farmers and

consumers who do not abide will be punished. Are we really willing to support

such actions?

If you want to make sure your milk is tested, go for it. There are farmers who

use private certification and/or testing to provide what their consumers demand.

It's economics at it's finest: supply and demand. We already have the right to

purchase the goods of our choice from the farmer's of our choice. It is in our

state Constitution. We should not have to compromise and say " if you would

please let us have raw milk " we will give up some of our rights; we do not have

to beg for these rights- they are already there. We just need to claim them. Let

us fight together for everyone's rights; in supporting the rights of others we

are supporting our own.

Natasha

No Man's Liberty or Property is safe while Congress is in session.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Not trying to mince words, Natasha, because I think we are in complete

agreement, but I don't know of ANY doctors that GIVE raw milk to their patients,

although there are several across the nation that recommend it. I'm not an

attorney, but I'm pretty sure the liability still remains with the farmer, and

of course, the consumer has to take personal responsibility too.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

Hello! After reading your post I realized that the message I was replying to was

not copied under my reply. I don't know of any Dr's that use raw milk now either

(although I do know about the Mayo Clinic's successful previous use of it!) but

it was mentioned in that post and that is what I was referring to. The post was

by " broes " on 2/14 as follows:

(start quote)

Raw Milk Testing

I agree with the recent comments that raw milk should be regularly tested in

Minnesota. Mark McAfee has blogged about it, spoke about at the Consumer Free

Choice seminar in January, and lives it on his California dairy farm. See his

video of their procedures:

We as a group in Minnesota have been so offended by the authorities stepping in

when the safety of the milk was in question. Their methods have been

questionable or worse. However, it seems to me that our efforts would go a long

way if we implemented regular milk testing to ensure safety. In the Untold

Story of Milk, the doctors that argued against all milk being pasteurized,

requested that a certification program be set up to ensure they had clean raw

milk for treatment of their patients.

Food freedom is important, but no one wants the freedom to drink pathogen

tainted milk.

(end quote)

[Guest guest]

When it comes to testing, be careful what you may wish for. I fully agree that

someone who has a herd of 40 cows and delivers their milk should test their

milk. But what about the thousands of people in this state who only have 2

goats or 1 cow, especially if they only sell a gallon or 2 a week or even a

month? Raw milk is a legal substance in MN. Once you allow the state to get in

the middle of every single milk transaction that is quietly happening every day

in MN, then they can potentially make such regulations that it can completely

shut down all of the smallest dairies.

The state has already done this with the definition of farms and property taxes.

The law talks about farms as small as 5 acres. In reality, there are no farms

under 11 acres, very few under 20 and they're working on getting rid of all land

classified as farms under 40 acres. You don't want this to happen with milk.

Sometimes, you just need to let people make wise choices whether testing is

appropriate or not and not allow a bureaucracy make all of the decisions. You

are only free if you are allowed to suceed or fail.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

There is no excuse for the farmer to not test the milk for human consumption.

It can be done on the farm and does not cost a ton to do so either.

I only test the milk we drink. Simple. Results in less than an hour. Pretty

easy.

Milk that is not tested is fed to the animals--bottle babies, pigs, poultry,

dogs, cats, etc.

Test kits can be bought at any vet office or in numerous animal health catalogs.

Ebay too.

There are also test kits to detect antibiotic residue in the milk. Also can be

done on the farm. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to do any of these

tests either, just be able to follow simple directions.

[Guest guest]

What safety tests are there in any catalog? I have never seen any except a plate

count, maybe somatic cell. I have never seen any for PCI, coloform, much less

for Campy, e coli h157:h7, salmonella,

or listeria, to say nothing of the " older " diseases. Sending out for these

tests are expensive and I have never heard of anyone doing them on farm. I have

been milking cows for 10 years and have had a hard time getting anyone to teach

me how. The labs and the university types have a real bad attitude about

teaching this stuff without enrolling in a degree program. I just do not have

the time for that.

Thanks

Charlie

>

> There is no excuse for the farmer to not test the milk for human consumption.

>

> It can be done on the farm and does not cost a ton to do so either.

>

> I only test the milk we drink. Simple. Results in less than an hour. Pretty

easy.

>

> Milk that is not tested is fed to the animals--bottle babies, pigs, poultry,

dogs, cats, etc.

>

> Test kits can be bought at any vet office or in numerous animal health

catalogs. Ebay too.

>

>

>

> There are also test kits to detect antibiotic residue in the milk. Also can

be done on the farm. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to do any of

these tests either, just be able to follow simple directions.

>

[Guest guest]

There are some very good maps for people who either produce milk to be consumed

raw and for people who want consume it. Two booklets are published by the Farm

To Consumer Legal Defense Fund, THE RAW MILK BOOK edited by Tim Wightman, and

the RAW MILK CONSUMERS HANDBOOK, which tells you how to handle the milk as a

consumer. The finest set of guidelines I've seen are on MARK MCAFEE's Organic

Pastures website, it's his HAACP PLAN which he calls his RAMP plan. This was the

bulletproof production and testing plan he used to defeat the Goliath called the

legal and governmental system.

Will Winter

[Guest guest]

" But what about the thousands of people in this state who only have 2 goats or

1 cow, especially if they only sell a gallon or 2 a week or even a month? Raw

milk is a legal substance in MN. Once you allow the state to get in the middle

of every single milk transaction that is quietly happening every day in MN, then

they can potentially make such regulations that it can completely shut down all

of the smallest dairies. " - Lynn

-----

We're one of these people with only 3 cows and we do not test, but we do drink

the milk from each batch and feed it to our family.

I understand the argument for testing, and I think it's important (but not

strictly necessary) for large operations, but with only a few cows I don't think

so. Not when you're very familiar with each animal and able to see their health

and examine the milk from each batch. But I'm also very traditional in my view

of food production and believe that food is best done without any modern

technology, even that we should have quit at hunting and gathering and that

farming is only second best, and the de facto way of life since H and G is no

longer an option for most people.