Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in Saudi Arabia, if they are importing their terminally ill here to receive the very short quantity US organs? Sal It's not about money. As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador for One Legacy, the So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network that governs St 's....so before someone else posts this article and Ric says that it's all about money,....and I get a few emails asking me how I can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought I'd post it myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it really isn't about money. It's not about money when we go stand in the sun for health fairs, walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is we're helping with this week. It isn't about money when we give up our Saturday so we can be at the local mall's organ donation booth encouraging strangers to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't about money when we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float and have to put our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or climb up high even though we;re scared and somehow always end up with glue on our hair that we can't remove for days. I do this to build a net for those of you wqho don't clear....it isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is so much more than money.... Silvia Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to Be Fatal By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo Times Staff Writers October 13, 2005 In January 2003, after more than two years on a waiting list for a liver transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered sick enough to rank near the top. If a donated organ became available, he would have only a few hours to get to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., then-director of the hospital's liver transplant program, told him he faced a long wait and was better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to Al-Harthi's son Majed. That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the hospital accepted a liver in his name. and Dr. Ramos, his assistant director, transplanted the organ into another Saudi national 50 places behind him on the list, St. officials now acknowledge. The misallocation, reported by The Times last month, is a serious breach of the national code governing placement of donated organs. Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less than a year later from liver cancer that had spread throughout his body. He was 59. " They killed my father, " Majed Al-Harthi said in a telephone interview from Rome, where he works for a Saudi oil and gas company. " Intentionally or unintentionally, they killed him, and they have to be punished for it. " For months leading up to the inappropriate transplant, and for months afterward, the hospital misled Al-Harthi, his family and the Saudi Embassy in Washington about his prospects for a liver, according to letters and e-mails from hospital staff that were reviewed by The Times. Although the motive behind the transplant switch remains a mystery, the tactic was clear: use one patient's position on the list to obtain an organ for somebody else. In doing so, the hospital bypassed not only Al-Harthi but dozens of other patients in Southern California whose conditions were deemed more dire than the recipient's. Eventually the hospital lost track of Al-Harthi, a popular school principal in his hometown of Taif. St. administrators learned of his death from Times reporters this week. Hospital and transplant officials did not identify the transplant candidates in question, referring to them only as patients A and B. The Times has verified the names with three knowledgeable people, including two who have seen the names in hospital documents. The sources requested anonymity because of patient privacy rules. Medical leaders at the hospital have hired outside experts to determine if and Ramos acted improperly. has resigned from the medical staff, said hospital spokesman Silva. Ramos remains on the staff but has stepped down from the chairmanship of the medical center's bioethics committee. The hospital administration is also looking at the conduct of other employees, including two who have said they falsified records as instructed either directly or indirectly by , according to Silva. The hospital suspended all liver transplants more than two weeks ago after a routine audit caught the problem, and officials are looking into whether any other organs might have been improperly diverted. Under national transplant rules, the hospital should have turned down the liver because the intended recipient, Al-Harthi, was unavailable. A patient at UCLA Medical Center was next in line on the list, and doctors there were ready to accept the organ. In rare instances, physicians can transplant a liver accepted for one patient into another - but only after consultation with the local organ procurement agency. The hospital is also required to justify such actions to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which administers the national transplant system. Neither agency was consulted in this case. For more than a year after the September 2003 transplant, St. filed documents with the national network showing, falsely, that Al-Harthi had received the liver and was doing well, the hospital has acknowledged. In fact, the evidence suggests that the surgeons had little intention of transplanting a liver into Al-Harthi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Saad Al-Harthi, a father of five, had a home library of more than 2,000 books and was known around Taif for his charitable demeanor. He began searching for a liver transplant center in 2000 after his doctors told him he might have cancer. It wasn't urgent, but his family was worried because he also had hepatitis C, another potentially lethal disease of the liver. Foreign nationals are allowed to seek transplants in the United States, and Al-Harthi settled on St. because several Saudi friends had traveled there for treatment for a variety of ailments. When he visited for the first time that October, the hospital placed him on the regional transplant list and he went home. The Saudi government agreed to pay his medical bills and travel expenses, as it commonly does for its most seriously ill citizens. Majed, who speaks English, routinely served as a long-distance translator between his father and the medical staff at the hospital. In January 2003, on Al-Harthi's fourth visit to St. , he was told that his condition was stable and that he was still an excellent candidate for a transplant. " It is crucial that Mr. Al-Harthi return to the United States at least once a year to update his evaluation and status on the waiting list, " wrote to the Saudi Embassy in a letter dated Jan. 13, 2003. But Al-Harthi's score on the standardized medical assessment used to rank liver transplant candidates showed the situation to be more urgent than suggested. By the end of that month, Al-Harthi's score, 30, had put him in strong contention for a liver, said Tom Mone, chief executive of OneLegacy, the regional organ procurement agency. A score of 30 or higher typically ensures an imminent transplant, said Dr. Busuttil, the head liver transplant surgeon at UCLA. He said he would tell such a patient that " you need to come and live right next to the hospital. " Back in Saudi Arabia, Al-Harthi was nervous about his health. He prayed for a liver, and his suitcase was always packed. All summer, his name crept up the list, as patients ahead of him got livers or died. His turn came Sept. 8. OneLegacy called the St. transplant coordinator to say a donated liver had become available for Al-Harthi, Mone said. The fact that the patient was in Saudi Arabia didn't stop the hospital from accepting the organ. There was someone else in the hospital who could use it. Abdullah Al-Bugami, 42, also happened to be a Saudi national - and was, according to the Saudi Embassy, a poor man. Suffering from hepatitis B and liver failure, he had been on the regional waiting list since February 2002, according to the embassy. But he was still not sick enough to qualify for a top spot, hospital officials said. Despite the ranking, Al-Bugami had been in the hospital for a month. " He was very sick ... swelling all over, " said Debbie Wahler, a nurse practitioner who worked in the liver transplant program at the time. " He was in a lot of abdominal pain. " headed to an Inland Empire hospital to remove the liver from a brain-dead donor, Mone said. At 9:46 a.m., placed a clamp on the aorta, cutting blood flow to the organs, Mone said. Thirty-two minutes later, the surgeon removed the liver, put it on ice and returned to St. . Al-Bugami was waiting. Ramos led the transplant. His lawyer, Evelina Serafini, said Ramos knew the organ had been intended for Al-Harthi but assumed that staff had received permission from organ procurement officials for it to be reallocated. Ramos always left the paperwork to the administrative staff, Serafini said. referred calls to his attorney, Fisher, who declined to comment. Al-Bugami's surgery was completed by 5 p.m., said Mone - about seven hours after the liver was removed from the donor. It was a quick turnaround for a donated liver. They can remain viable for transplant up to 12 hours, depending on the quality of the organ. " We would have had time to make other calls and transport the organ to another facility, " Mone said. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- The coverup began the next day. A clerk logged on to the national organ registry and accurately reported that Al-Bugami had received the liver, hospital officials said. But about three hours later, the officials said, the clerk signed on again to say that he had erred and that it was Al-Harthi who had received the organ. The clerk later told hospital officials that a nurse had asked him to falsify the electronic record at the request of , St. President Gus Valdespino has said. Al-Harthi was scratched from the list but left to believe that his turn would still come. wrote to the Saudi Embassy to arrange Al-Harthi's next visit. The doctor was not in a hurry. " This reassessment is not urgent and could take place any time over the next 3-4 months, " he wrote Jan. 12, 2004. " This will be necessary to determine if his liver disease has progressed significantly and to estimate the timing of his transplant operation. " Al-Harthi's prayers were growing more desperate. He was losing weight, and his Saudi doctor had detected dark spots on his liver, according to his son. When Al-Harthi finally came to the United States in mid-April 2004, gave him the bad news: Cancer had spread throughout his body, disqualifying him from the list. told Al-Harthi that his best option was to " go back and spend the rest of his days with his family, " the son said. At his funeral four months later, 2,000 people showed up, he said. " My family still feels like he died a month ago, " he said. As for Al-Bugami, who received the liver, he is doing well, according to a spokesman at the Saudi Embassy. The Saudi government, which paid for the transplant, is contemplating whether it should send any more of its citizens to St. , the spokesman said. Copyright C 2005, The Los Angeles Times It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the support you need with us. If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click the link-- Hepatitis C/ Happy Posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Silvia Its never about the money with you and me... I am totally convinced that some of us do this because we really care about people.. the drug companies, well, they are a different story... You keep up your wonderful work here hon, we ALL DO appreciate what you do to help us... love you hon jax Sally Hines <shines@...> wrote: Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in Saudi Arabia, if they are importing their terminally ill here to receive the very short quantity US organs? Sal It's not about money. As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador for One Legacy, the So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network that governs St 's....so before someone else posts this article and Ric says that it's all about money,....and I get a few emails asking me how I can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought I'd post it myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it really isn't about money. It's not about money when we go stand in the sun for health fairs, walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is we're helping with this week. It isn't about money when we give up our Saturday so we can be at the local mall's organ donation booth encouraging strangers to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't about money when we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float and have to put our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or climb up high even though we;re scared and somehow always end up with glue on our hair that we can't remove for days. I do this to build a net for those of you wqho don't clear....it isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is so much more than money.... Silvia Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to Be Fatal By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo Times Staff Writers October 13, 2005 In January 2003, after more than two years on a waiting list for a liver transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered sick enough to rank near the top. If a donated organ became available, he would have only a few hours to get to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., then-director of the hospital's liver transplant program, told him he faced a long wait and was better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to Al-Harthi's son Majed. That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the hospital accepted a liver in his name. and Dr. Ramos, his assistant director, transplanted the organ into another Saudi national 50 places behind him on the list, St. officials now acknowledge. The misallocation, reported by The Times last month, is a serious breach of the national code governing placement of donated organs. Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less than a year later from liver cancer that had spread throughout his body. He was 59. " They killed my father, " Majed Al-Harthi said in a telephone interview from Rome, where he works for a Saudi oil and gas company. " Intentionally or unintentionally, they killed him, and they have to be punished for it. " For months leading up to the inappropriate transplant, and for months afterward, the hospital misled Al-Harthi, his family and the Saudi Embassy in Washington about his prospects for a liver, according to letters and e-mails from hospital staff that were reviewed by The Times. Although the motive behind the transplant switch remains a mystery, the tactic was clear: use one patient's position on the list to obtain an organ for somebody else. In doing so, the hospital bypassed not only Al-Harthi but dozens of other patients in Southern California whose conditions were deemed more dire than the recipient's. Eventually the hospital lost track of Al-Harthi, a popular school principal in his hometown of Taif. St. administrators learned of his death from Times reporters this week. Hospital and transplant officials did not identify the transplant candidates in question, referring to them only as patients A and B. The Times has verified the names with three knowledgeable people, including two who have seen the names in hospital documents. The sources requested anonymity because of patient privacy rules. Medical leaders at the hospital have hired outside experts to determine if and Ramos acted improperly. has resigned from the medical staff, said hospital spokesman Silva. Ramos remains on the staff but has stepped down from the chairmanship of the medical center's bioethics committee. The hospital administration is also looking at the conduct of other employees, including two who have said they falsified records as instructed either directly or indirectly by , according to Silva. The hospital suspended all liver transplants more than two weeks ago after a routine audit caught the problem, and officials are looking into whether any other organs might have been improperly diverted. Under national transplant rules, the hospital should have turned down the liver because the intended recipient, Al-Harthi, was unavailable. A patient at UCLA Medical Center was next in line on the list, and doctors there were ready to accept the organ. In rare instances, physicians can transplant a liver accepted for one patient into another - but only after consultation with the local organ procurement agency. The hospital is also required to justify such actions to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which administers the national transplant system. Neither agency was consulted in this case. For more than a year after the September 2003 transplant, St. filed documents with the national network showing, falsely, that Al-Harthi had received the liver and was doing well, the hospital has acknowledged. In fact, the evidence suggests that the surgeons had little intention of transplanting a liver into Al-Harthi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Saad Al-Harthi, a father of five, had a home library of more than 2,000 books and was known around Taif for his charitable demeanor. He began searching for a liver transplant center in 2000 after his doctors told him he might have cancer. It wasn't urgent, but his family was worried because he also had hepatitis C, another potentially lethal disease of the liver. Foreign nationals are allowed to seek transplants in the United States, and Al-Harthi settled on St. because several Saudi friends had traveled there for treatment for a variety of ailments. When he visited for the first time that October, the hospital placed him on the regional transplant list and he went home. The Saudi government agreed to pay his medical bills and travel expenses, as it commonly does for its most seriously ill citizens. Majed, who speaks English, routinely served as a long-distance translator between his father and the medical staff at the hospital. In January 2003, on Al-Harthi's fourth visit to St. , he was told that his condition was stable and that he was still an excellent candidate for a transplant. " It is crucial that Mr. Al-Harthi return to the United States at least once a year to update his evaluation and status on the waiting list, " wrote to the Saudi Embassy in a letter dated Jan. 13, 2003. But Al-Harthi's score on the standardized medical assessment used to rank liver transplant candidates showed the situation to be more urgent than suggested. By the end of that month, Al-Harthi's score, 30, had put him in strong contention for a liver, said Tom Mone, chief executive of OneLegacy, the regional organ procurement agency. A score of 30 or higher typically ensures an imminent transplant, said Dr. Busuttil, the head liver transplant surgeon at UCLA. He said he would tell such a patient that " you need to come and live right next to the hospital. " Back in Saudi Arabia, Al-Harthi was nervous about his health. He prayed for a liver, and his suitcase was always packed. All summer, his name crept up the list, as patients ahead of him got livers or died. His turn came Sept. 8. OneLegacy called the St. transplant coordinator to say a donated liver had become available for Al-Harthi, Mone said. The fact that the patient was in Saudi Arabia didn't stop the hospital from accepting the organ. There was someone else in the hospital who could use it. Abdullah Al-Bugami, 42, also happened to be a Saudi national - and was, according to the Saudi Embassy, a poor man. Suffering from hepatitis B and liver failure, he had been on the regional waiting list since February 2002, according to the embassy. But he was still not sick enough to qualify for a top spot, hospital officials said. Despite the ranking, Al-Bugami had been in the hospital for a month. " He was very sick ... swelling all over, " said Debbie Wahler, a nurse practitioner who worked in the liver transplant program at the time. " He was in a lot of abdominal pain. " headed to an Inland Empire hospital to remove the liver from a brain-dead donor, Mone said. At 9:46 a.m., placed a clamp on the aorta, cutting blood flow to the organs, Mone said. Thirty-two minutes later, the surgeon removed the liver, put it on ice and returned to St. . Al-Bugami was waiting. Ramos led the transplant. His lawyer, Evelina Serafini, said Ramos knew the organ had been intended for Al-Harthi but assumed that staff had received permission from organ procurement officials for it to be reallocated. Ramos always left the paperwork to the administrative staff, Serafini said. referred calls to his attorney, Fisher, who declined to comment. Al-Bugami's surgery was completed by 5 p.m., said Mone - about seven hours after the liver was removed from the donor. It was a quick turnaround for a donated liver. They can remain viable for transplant up to 12 hours, depending on the quality of the organ. " We would have had time to make other calls and transport the organ to another facility, " Mone said. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- The coverup began the next day. A clerk logged on to the national organ registry and accurately reported that Al-Bugami had received the liver, hospital officials said. But about three hours later, the officials said, the clerk signed on again to say that he had erred and that it was Al-Harthi who had received the organ. The clerk later told hospital officials that a nurse had asked him to falsify the electronic record at the request of , St. President Gus Valdespino has said. Al-Harthi was scratched from the list but left to believe that his turn would still come. wrote to the Saudi Embassy to arrange Al-Harthi's next visit. The doctor was not in a hurry. " This reassessment is not urgent and could take place any time over the next 3-4 months, " he wrote Jan. 12, 2004. " This will be necessary to determine if his liver disease has progressed significantly and to estimate the timing of his transplant operation. " Al-Harthi's prayers were growing more desperate. He was losing weight, and his Saudi doctor had detected dark spots on his liver, according to his son. When Al-Harthi finally came to the United States in mid-April 2004, gave him the bad news: Cancer had spread throughout his body, disqualifying him from the list. told Al-Harthi that his best option was to " go back and spend the rest of his days with his family, " the son said. At his funeral four months later, 2,000 people showed up, he said. " My family still feels like he died a month ago, " he said. As for Al-Bugami, who received the liver, he is doing well, according to a spokesman at the Saudi Embassy. The Saudi government, which paid for the transplant, is contemplating whether it should send any more of its citizens to St. , the spokesman said. Copyright C 2005, The Los Angeles Times It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the support you need with us. If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click the link-- Hepatitis C/ Happy Posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Non-U.S. citizens historically give more organs than they take. That means that it is much more likely for a non-US resident to give the gift of life than receive the gift of life. UNOS regulates that only 5% of the US transplant list can be foreign nationals. Silvia > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in Saudi Arabia, if they are > importing their terminally ill here to receive the very short quantity US > organs? > > Sal > > It's not about money. > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador for One Legacy, the > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network that governs St > 's....so before someone else posts this article and Ric says > that it's all about money,....and I get a few emails asking me how I > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought I'd post it > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it really isn't about > money. > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun for health fairs, > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is we're helping with > this week. It isn't about money when we give up our Saturday so we > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth encouraging strangers > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't about money when > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float and have to put > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or climb up high even > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with glue on our hair > that we can't remove for days. > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho don't clear....it > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is so much more than > money.... > > Silvia > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to Be Fatal > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > Times Staff Writers > > October 13, 2005 > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a waiting list for a liver > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered sick enough to rank near > the top. > > If a donated organ became available, he would have only a few hours to get > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., then-director of the > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he faced a long wait and was > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to Al-Harthi's son Majed. > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the hospital accepted a liver in his > name. > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant director, transplanted the organ > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him on the list, > St. > officials now acknowledge. The misallocation, reported by The Times > last month, is a serious breach of the national code governing placement of > donated organs. > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less than a year later from liver > cancer that had spread throughout his body. He was 59. > > " They killed my father, " Majed Al-Harthi said in a telephone interview from > Rome, where he works for a Saudi oil and gas company. " Intentionally or > unintentionally, they killed him, and they have to > be > punished for it. " > > For months leading up to the inappropriate transplant, and for months > afterward, the hospital misled Al-Harthi, his family and the Saudi Embassy > in Washington about his prospects for a liver, according to letters and > e-mails from hospital staff that were reviewed by The Times. > > Although the motive behind the transplant switch remains a mystery, > the > tactic was clear: use one patient's position on the list to obtain an organ > for somebody else. In doing so, the hospital bypassed not only Al- Harthi but > dozens of other patients in Southern California whose conditions were deemed > more dire than the recipient's. > > Eventually the hospital lost track of Al-Harthi, a popular school principal > in his hometown of Taif. St. administrators learned of his death > from Times reporters this week. > > Hospital and transplant officials did not identify the transplant candidates > in question, referring to them only as patients A and B. > The > Times has verified the names with three knowledgeable people, > including > two who have seen the names in hospital documents. > > The sources requested anonymity because of patient privacy rules. > > Medical leaders at the hospital have hired outside experts to > determine > if and Ramos acted improperly. has resigned from the medical > staff, said hospital spokesman Silva. Ramos remains on > the > staff but has stepped down from the chairmanship of the medical center's > bioethics committee. > > The hospital administration is also looking at the conduct of other > employees, including two who have said they falsified records as instructed > either directly or indirectly by , according to Silva. > > The hospital suspended all liver transplants more than two weeks ago after a > routine audit caught the problem, and officials are looking into whether any > other organs might have been improperly diverted. > > Under national transplant rules, the hospital should have turned down the > liver because the intended recipient, Al-Harthi, was unavailable. > A > patient at UCLA Medical Center was next in line on the list, and doctors > there were ready to accept the organ. > > In rare instances, physicians can transplant a liver accepted for one > patient into another - but only after consultation with the local organ > procurement agency. The hospital is also required to justify > such > actions to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which administers the > national transplant system. > > Neither agency was consulted in this case. > > For more than a year after the September 2003 transplant, St. filed > documents with the national network showing, falsely, that Al- Harthi had > received the liver and was doing well, the hospital has acknowledged. > > In fact, the evidence suggests that the surgeons had little intention of > transplanting a liver into Al-Harthi. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > > Saad Al-Harthi, a father of five, had a home library of more than > 2,000 > books and was known around Taif for his charitable demeanor. > > He began searching for a liver transplant center in 2000 after his doctors > told him he might have cancer. > > It wasn't urgent, but his family was worried because he also had hepatitis > C, another potentially lethal disease of the liver. > > Foreign nationals are allowed to seek transplants in the United > States, > and Al-Harthi settled on St. because several Saudi friends had > traveled there for treatment for a variety of ailments. When he > visited > for the first time that October, the hospital placed him on the regional > transplant list and he went home. > > The Saudi government agreed to pay his medical bills and travel expenses, as > it commonly does for its most seriously ill citizens. Majed, who speaks > English, routinely served as a long-distance translator between his father > and the medical staff at the hospital. > > In January 2003, on Al-Harthi's fourth visit to St. , he was told > that his condition was stable and that he was still an excellent candidate > for a transplant. > > " It is crucial that Mr. Al-Harthi return to the United States at least once > a year to update his evaluation and status on the waiting list, " wrote > to the Saudi Embassy in a letter dated Jan. 13, 2003. > > But Al-Harthi's score on the standardized medical assessment used to rank > liver transplant candidates showed the situation to be more > urgent > than suggested. > > By the end of that month, Al-Harthi's score, 30, had put him in strong > contention for a liver, said Tom Mone, chief executive of OneLegacy, the > regional organ procurement agency. > > A score of 30 or higher typically ensures an imminent transplant, said Dr. > Busuttil, the head liver transplant surgeon at UCLA. He > said > he would tell such a patient that " you need to come and live right > next > to the hospital. " > > Back in Saudi Arabia, Al-Harthi was nervous about his health. He > prayed > for a liver, and his suitcase was always packed. > > All summer, his name crept up the list, as patients ahead of him got livers > or died. > > His turn came Sept. 8. > > OneLegacy called the St. transplant coordinator to say a donated > liver had become available for Al-Harthi, Mone said. The fact that the > patient was in Saudi Arabia didn't stop the hospital from accepting the > organ. > > There was someone else in the hospital who could use it. > > Abdullah Al-Bugami, 42, also happened to be a Saudi national - and was, > according to the Saudi Embassy, a poor man. Suffering from hepatitis B and > liver failure, he had been on the regional waiting > list > since February 2002, according to the embassy. But he was still not sick > enough to qualify for a top spot, hospital officials said. > > Despite the ranking, Al-Bugami had been in the hospital for a month. > > " He was very sick ... swelling all over, " said Debbie Wahler, a nurse > practitioner who worked in the liver transplant program at the time. " He was > in a lot of abdominal pain. " > > headed to an Inland Empire hospital to remove the liver from a > brain-dead donor, Mone said. > > At 9:46 a.m., placed a clamp on the aorta, cutting blood flow to the > organs, Mone said. Thirty-two minutes later, the surgeon removed the liver, > put it on ice and returned to St. . Al-Bugami was waiting. > > Ramos led the transplant. > > His lawyer, Evelina Serafini, said Ramos knew the organ had been intended > for Al-Harthi but assumed that staff had received permission from organ > procurement officials for it to be reallocated. Ramos > always > left the paperwork to the administrative staff, Serafini said. > > referred calls to his attorney, Fisher, who declined to comment. > > Al-Bugami's surgery was completed by 5 p.m., said Mone - about seven hours > after the liver was removed from the donor. > > It was a quick turnaround for a donated liver. They can remain viable for > transplant up to 12 hours, depending on the quality of the organ. > > " We would have had time to make other calls and transport the organ to > another facility, " Mone said. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > > The coverup began the next day. > > A clerk logged on to the national organ registry and accurately reported > that Al-Bugami had received the liver, hospital officials said. > > But about three hours later, the officials said, the clerk signed on again > to say that he had erred and that it was Al-Harthi who had received the > organ. > > The clerk later told hospital officials that a nurse had asked him to > falsify the electronic record at the request of , St. President > Gus Valdespino has said. > > Al-Harthi was scratched from the list but left to believe that his > turn > would still come. > > wrote to the Saudi Embassy to arrange Al-Harthi's next visit. > The > doctor was not in a hurry. > > " This reassessment is not urgent and could take place any time over > the > next 3-4 months, " he wrote Jan. 12, 2004. " This will be necessary to > determine if his liver disease has progressed significantly and to estimate > the timing of his transplant operation. " > > Al-Harthi's prayers were growing more desperate. > > He was losing weight, and his Saudi doctor had detected dark spots on his > liver, according to his son. > > When Al-Harthi finally came to the United States in mid-April 2004, > gave him the bad news: Cancer had spread throughout his body, disqualifying > him from the list. told Al-Harthi that his best option was to " go back > and spend the rest of his days with his > family, " > the son said. > > At his funeral four months later, 2,000 people showed up, he said. > > " My family still feels like he died a month ago, " he said. > > As for Al-Bugami, who received the liver, he is doing well, according to a > spokesman at the Saudi Embassy. > > The Saudi government, which paid for the transplant, is contemplating > whether it should send any more of its citizens to St. , the > spokesman said. > Copyright C 2005, The Los Angeles Times > > > > > > > > > It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found > the support you need with us. > > If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just > click the link-- Hepatitis C/ > > Happy Posting > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Got some new figures today.... STATS ON FOREIGN NATIONALS Recent data shows that across the US, 1% of transplant recipients are of foreign nationals and 2% of donors are foreign nationals. Also, 3.4% of recipients are non-US citizens and 6% of donors are non-US citizens. Thus, both measures are below the federal limit of 5% of transplants and both indicate that foreigners give a good deal more than they receive. In September, OneLegacy, the So CA Organ Procurement Network, transplanted more organs than ever before in our company's history. In the 72 hours after news of St. 's Liver Program, 11 families were approached about donation, 10 families gave consent and 9 actually became donors. In September: 37 Organ donors 40 Tissue donors 127 organs transplanted 3.43 organs per donor This makes OneLegacy on track for a 12% increase in consent rates for 2005 and a 6th consecutive year of increases in donation. Hard work does pay off!!! I am also happy to report that Governor Schwarzenegger signed Senate Bill 689 into law. This important legislation will make the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) a partner with the new Donate Life California Registry. Starting in July 2006, the DMV will start to collect people's donor designation and then electronically transfer the information into the Donate Life California database on a weekly basis. Because of this connection the Donate Life California Registry can expect to see 40% to 70% of the state's population signed up as organ donors!!! Hope....is alive and well ladies and gentlemen. Reporting from CA. Silvia Hey Ric! I'm practicing for the radio program. How did I do?......LOL > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in Saudi Arabia, if they are > importing their terminally ill here to receive the very short quantity US > organs? > > Sal > > It's not about money. > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador for One Legacy, the > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network that governs St > 's....so before someone else posts this article and Ric says > that it's all about money,....and I get a few emails asking me how I > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought I'd post it > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it really isn't about > money. > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun for health fairs, > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is we're helping with > this week. It isn't about money when we give up our Saturday so we > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth encouraging strangers > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't about money when > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float and have to put > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or climb up high even > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with glue on our hair > that we can't remove for days. > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho don't clear....it > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is so much more than > money.... > > Silvia > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to Be Fatal > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > Times Staff Writers > > October 13, 2005 > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a waiting list for a liver > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered sick enough to rank near > the top. > > If a donated organ became available, he would have only a few hours to get > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., then-director of the > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he faced a long wait and was > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to Al-Harthi's son Majed. > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the hospital accepted a liver in his > name. > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant director, transplanted the organ > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him on the list, > St. > officials now acknowledge. The misallocation, reported by The Times > last month, is a serious breach of the national code governing placement of > donated organs. > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less than a year later from liver > cancer that had spread throughout his body. He was 59. > > " They killed my father, " Majed Al-Harthi said in a telephone interview from > Rome, where he works for a Saudi oil and gas company. " Intentionally or > unintentionally, they killed him, and they have to > be > punished for it. " > > For months leading up to the inappropriate transplant, and for months > afterward, the hospital misled Al-Harthi, his family and the Saudi Embassy > in Washington about his prospects for a liver, according to letters and > e-mails from hospital staff that were reviewed by The Times. > > Although the motive behind the transplant switch remains a mystery, > the > tactic was clear: use one patient's position on the list to obtain an organ > for somebody else. In doing so, the hospital bypassed not only Al- Harthi but > dozens of other patients in Southern California whose conditions were deemed > more dire than the recipient's. > > Eventually the hospital lost track of Al-Harthi, a popular school principal > in his hometown of Taif. St. administrators learned of his death > from Times reporters this week. > > Hospital and transplant officials did not identify the transplant candidates > in question, referring to them only as patients A and B. > The > Times has verified the names with three knowledgeable people, > including > two who have seen the names in hospital documents. > > The sources requested anonymity because of patient privacy rules. > > Medical leaders at the hospital have hired outside experts to > determine > if and Ramos acted improperly. has resigned from the medical > staff, said hospital spokesman Silva. Ramos remains on > the > staff but has stepped down from the chairmanship of the medical center's > bioethics committee. > > The hospital administration is also looking at the conduct of other > employees, including two who have said they falsified records as instructed > either directly or indirectly by , according to Silva. > > The hospital suspended all liver transplants more than two weeks ago after a > routine audit caught the problem, and officials are looking into whether any > other organs might have been improperly diverted. > > Under national transplant rules, the hospital should have turned down the > liver because the intended recipient, Al-Harthi, was unavailable. > A > patient at UCLA Medical Center was next in line on the list, and doctors > there were ready to accept the organ. > > In rare instances, physicians can transplant a liver accepted for one > patient into another - but only after consultation with the local organ > procurement agency. The hospital is also required to justify > such > actions to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which administers the > national transplant system. > > Neither agency was consulted in this case. > > For more than a year after the September 2003 transplant, St. filed > documents with the national network showing, falsely, that Al- Harthi had > received the liver and was doing well, the hospital has acknowledged. > > In fact, the evidence suggests that the surgeons had little intention of > transplanting a liver into Al-Harthi. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > > Saad Al-Harthi, a father of five, had a home library of more than > 2,000 > books and was known around Taif for his charitable demeanor. > > He began searching for a liver transplant center in 2000 after his doctors > told him he might have cancer. > > It wasn't urgent, but his family was worried because he also had hepatitis > C, another potentially lethal disease of the liver. > > Foreign nationals are allowed to seek transplants in the United > States, > and Al-Harthi settled on St. because several Saudi friends had > traveled there for treatment for a variety of ailments. When he > visited > for the first time that October, the hospital placed him on the regional > transplant list and he went home. > > The Saudi government agreed to pay his medical bills and travel expenses, as > it commonly does for its most seriously ill citizens. Majed, who speaks > English, routinely served as a long-distance translator between his father > and the medical staff at the hospital. > > In January 2003, on Al-Harthi's fourth visit to St. , he was told > that his condition was stable and that he was still an excellent candidate > for a transplant. > > " It is crucial that Mr. Al-Harthi return to the United States at least once > a year to update his evaluation and status on the waiting list, " wrote > to the Saudi Embassy in a letter dated Jan. 13, 2003. > > But Al-Harthi's score on the standardized medical assessment used to rank > liver transplant candidates showed the situation to be more > urgent > than suggested. > > By the end of that month, Al-Harthi's score, 30, had put him in strong > contention for a liver, said Tom Mone, chief executive of OneLegacy, the > regional organ procurement agency. > > A score of 30 or higher typically ensures an imminent transplant, said Dr. > Busuttil, the head liver transplant surgeon at UCLA. He > said > he would tell such a patient that " you need to come and live right > next > to the hospital. " > > Back in Saudi Arabia, Al-Harthi was nervous about his health. He > prayed > for a liver, and his suitcase was always packed. > > All summer, his name crept up the list, as patients ahead of him got livers > or died. > > His turn came Sept. 8. > > OneLegacy called the St. transplant coordinator to say a donated > liver had become available for Al-Harthi, Mone said. The fact that the > patient was in Saudi Arabia didn't stop the hospital from accepting the > organ. > > There was someone else in the hospital who could use it. > > Abdullah Al-Bugami, 42, also happened to be a Saudi national - and was, > according to the Saudi Embassy, a poor man. Suffering from hepatitis B and > liver failure, he had been on the regional waiting > list > since February 2002, according to the embassy. But he was still not sick > enough to qualify for a top spot, hospital officials said. > > Despite the ranking, Al-Bugami had been in the hospital for a month. > > " He was very sick ... swelling all over, " said Debbie Wahler, a nurse > practitioner who worked in the liver transplant program at the time. " He was > in a lot of abdominal pain. " > > headed to an Inland Empire hospital to remove the liver from a > brain-dead donor, Mone said. > > At 9:46 a.m., placed a clamp on the aorta, cutting blood flow to the > organs, Mone said. Thirty-two minutes later, the surgeon removed the liver, > put it on ice and returned to St. . Al-Bugami was waiting. > > Ramos led the transplant. > > His lawyer, Evelina Serafini, said Ramos knew the organ had been intended > for Al-Harthi but assumed that staff had received permission from organ > procurement officials for it to be reallocated. Ramos > always > left the paperwork to the administrative staff, Serafini said. > > referred calls to his attorney, Fisher, who declined to comment. > > Al-Bugami's surgery was completed by 5 p.m., said Mone - about seven hours > after the liver was removed from the donor. > > It was a quick turnaround for a donated liver. They can remain viable for > transplant up to 12 hours, depending on the quality of the organ. > > " We would have had time to make other calls and transport the organ to > another facility, " Mone said. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > > The coverup began the next day. > > A clerk logged on to the national organ registry and accurately reported > that Al-Bugami had received the liver, hospital officials said. > > But about three hours later, the officials said, the clerk signed on again > to say that he had erred and that it was Al-Harthi who had received the > organ. > > The clerk later told hospital officials that a nurse had asked him to > falsify the electronic record at the request of , St. President > Gus Valdespino has said. > > Al-Harthi was scratched from the list but left to believe that his > turn > would still come. > > wrote to the Saudi Embassy to arrange Al-Harthi's next visit. > The > doctor was not in a hurry. > > " This reassessment is not urgent and could take place any time over > the > next 3-4 months, " he wrote Jan. 12, 2004. " This will be necessary to > determine if his liver disease has progressed significantly and to estimate > the timing of his transplant operation. " > > Al-Harthi's prayers were growing more desperate. > > He was losing weight, and his Saudi doctor had detected dark spots on his > liver, according to his son. > > When Al-Harthi finally came to the United States in mid-April 2004, > gave him the bad news: Cancer had spread throughout his body, disqualifying > him from the list. told Al-Harthi that his best option was to " go back > and spend the rest of his days with his > family, " > the son said. > > At his funeral four months later, 2,000 people showed up, he said. > > " My family still feels like he died a month ago, " he said. > > As for Al-Bugami, who received the liver, he is doing well, according to a > spokesman at the Saudi Embassy. > > The Saudi government, which paid for the transplant, is contemplating > whether it should send any more of its citizens to St. , the > spokesman said. > Copyright C 2005, The Los Angeles Times > > > > > > > > > It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found > the support you need with us. > > If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just > click the link-- Hepatitis C/ > > Happy Posting > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 You did good Silvia. Speaking of stats, where can I find the amount of new HCV cases reported in 2004? 05? Is it going up? are all states reporting now? ps. we are going to do the radio show. I was suggested that we pre-record the first one. So all I have to do is get my pea brain around how to do that. So stay tuned and practice your radio voice. ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I'm sure it's in one of my speaker slides. If you tell me how to copy a power point slide I'll email it to you. We may not have 2005 yet. Let me check. Silvia In Hepatitis C , Ric <richobbs1@y...> wrote: > > You did good Silvia. Speaking of stats, where can I find the > amount of new HCV cases reported in 2004? 05? Is it going up? > are all states reporting now? > ps. we are going to do the radio show. I was suggested that we > pre-record the first one. So all I have to do is get my pea > brain around how to do that. So stay tuned and practice your > radio voice. ric > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Silvia, Please remember whnever you are doing a radio show that the state of California has it's troubles and that state does not reflect in any way the thoughts and feelings of the other voting states involved. --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > Got some new figures today.... > > STATS ON FOREIGN NATIONALS > Recent data shows that across the US, 1% of > transplant recipients are > of foreign nationals and 2% of donors are foreign > nationals. Also, > 3.4% of recipients are non-US citizens and 6% of > donors are non-US > citizens. Thus, both measures are below the federal > limit of 5% of > transplants and both indicate that foreigners give a > good deal more > than they receive. > > > In September, OneLegacy, the So CA Organ Procurement > Network, > transplanted more organs than ever before in our > company's history. > In the 72 hours after news of St. 's Liver > Program, 11 > families were approached about donation, 10 families > gave consent and > 9 actually became donors. > > In September: > 37 Organ donors > 40 Tissue donors > 127 organs transplanted > 3.43 organs per donor > > This makes OneLegacy on track for a 12% increase in > consent rates for > 2005 and a 6th consecutive year of increases in > donation. Hard work > does pay off!!! > > I am also happy to report that Governor > Schwarzenegger signed Senate > Bill 689 into law. > > This important legislation will make the California > Department of > Motor Vehicles (DMV) a partner with the new Donate > Life California > Registry. Starting in July 2006, the DMV will start > to collect > people's donor designation and then electronically > transfer the > information into the Donate Life California database > on a weekly > basis. Because of this connection the Donate Life > California > Registry can expect to see 40% to 70% of the state's > population > signed up as organ donors!!! > > Hope....is alive and well ladies and gentlemen. > Reporting from CA. > Silvia > > Hey Ric! I'm practicing for the radio program. How > did I do?......LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > Saudi Arabia, if > they are > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > very short > quantity US > > organs? > > > > Sal > > > > It's not about > money. > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > for One Legacy, > the > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > that governs St > > 's....so before someone else posts this > article and Ric says > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > emails asking me how > I > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > I'd post it > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > really isn't > about > > money. > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > for health fairs, > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > we're helping > with > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > our Saturday so we > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > encouraging > strangers > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > about money when > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > and have to put > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > climb up high even > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > glue on our hair > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > don't clear....it > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > so much more than > > money.... > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > Be Fatal > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > Times Staff Writers > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > waiting list for a > liver > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > sick enough to > rank near > > the top. > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > only a few hours > to get > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > then-director of the > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > faced a long wait > and was > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > Al-Harthi's son > Majed. > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > hospital accepted a > liver in his > > name. > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > director, transplanted > the organ > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > on the list, > > St. > > officials now acknowledge. The > misallocation, reported by > The Times > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > code governing > placement of > > donated organs. > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > than === message truncated === __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Smoke pot while I perform an abortion on your 12yo ass without telling your mommy. I Love cali --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > Got some new figures today.... > > STATS ON FOREIGN NATIONALS > Recent data shows that across the US, 1% of > transplant recipients are > of foreign nationals and 2% of donors are foreign > nationals. Also, > 3.4% of recipients are non-US citizens and 6% of > donors are non-US > citizens. Thus, both measures are below the federal > limit of 5% of > transplants and both indicate that foreigners give a > good deal more > than they receive. > > > In September, OneLegacy, the So CA Organ Procurement > Network, > transplanted more organs than ever before in our > company's history. > In the 72 hours after news of St. 's Liver > Program, 11 > families were approached about donation, 10 families > gave consent and > 9 actually became donors. > > In September: > 37 Organ donors > 40 Tissue donors > 127 organs transplanted > 3.43 organs per donor > > This makes OneLegacy on track for a 12% increase in > consent rates for > 2005 and a 6th consecutive year of increases in > donation. Hard work > does pay off!!! > > I am also happy to report that Governor > Schwarzenegger signed Senate > Bill 689 into law. > > This important legislation will make the California > Department of > Motor Vehicles (DMV) a partner with the new Donate > Life California > Registry. Starting in July 2006, the DMV will start > to collect > people's donor designation and then electronically > transfer the > information into the Donate Life California database > on a weekly > basis. Because of this connection the Donate Life > California > Registry can expect to see 40% to 70% of the state's > population > signed up as organ donors!!! > > Hope....is alive and well ladies and gentlemen. > Reporting from CA. > Silvia > > Hey Ric! I'm practicing for the radio program. How > did I do?......LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > Saudi Arabia, if > they are > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > very short > quantity US > > organs? > > > > Sal > > > > It's not about > money. > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > for One Legacy, > the > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > that governs St > > 's....so before someone else posts this > article and Ric says > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > emails asking me how > I > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > I'd post it > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > really isn't > about > > money. > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > for health fairs, > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > we're helping > with > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > our Saturday so we > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > encouraging > strangers > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > about money when > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > and have to put > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > climb up high even > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > glue on our hair > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > don't clear....it > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > so much more than > > money.... > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > Be Fatal > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > Times Staff Writers > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > waiting list for a > liver > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > sick enough to > rank near > > the top. > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > only a few hours > to get > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > then-director of the > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > faced a long wait > and was > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > Al-Harthi's son > Majed. > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > hospital accepted a > liver in his > > name. > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > director, transplanted > the organ > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > on the list, > > St. > > officials now acknowledge. The > misallocation, reported by > The Times > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > code governing > placement of > > donated organs. > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > than === message truncated === __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 FUCK California and the Free sex and free abortions and the free rehabs and the free anything you want to live a non conventional lifestyle.Fuck all of you ignorant bastards if you cannot remember what it was that made you sick to begin with. --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > Got some new figures today.... > > STATS ON FOREIGN NATIONALS > Recent data shows that across the US, 1% of > transplant recipients are > of foreign nationals and 2% of donors are foreign > nationals. Also, > 3.4% of recipients are non-US citizens and 6% of > donors are non-US > citizens. Thus, both measures are below the federal > limit of 5% of > transplants and both indicate that foreigners give a > good deal more > than they receive. > > > In September, OneLegacy, the So CA Organ Procurement > Network, > transplanted more organs than ever before in our > company's history. > In the 72 hours after news of St. 's Liver > Program, 11 > families were approached about donation, 10 families > gave consent and > 9 actually became donors. > > In September: > 37 Organ donors > 40 Tissue donors > 127 organs transplanted > 3.43 organs per donor > > This makes OneLegacy on track for a 12% increase in > consent rates for > 2005 and a 6th consecutive year of increases in > donation. Hard work > does pay off!!! > > I am also happy to report that Governor > Schwarzenegger signed Senate > Bill 689 into law. > > This important legislation will make the California > Department of > Motor Vehicles (DMV) a partner with the new Donate > Life California > Registry. Starting in July 2006, the DMV will start > to collect > people's donor designation and then electronically > transfer the > information into the Donate Life California database > on a weekly > basis. Because of this connection the Donate Life > California > Registry can expect to see 40% to 70% of the state's > population > signed up as organ donors!!! > > Hope....is alive and well ladies and gentlemen. > Reporting from CA. > Silvia > > Hey Ric! I'm practicing for the radio program. How > did I do?......LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > Saudi Arabia, if > they are > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > very short > quantity US > > organs? > > > > Sal > > > > It's not about > money. > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > for One Legacy, > the > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > that governs St > > 's....so before someone else posts this > article and Ric says > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > emails asking me how > I > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > I'd post it > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > really isn't > about > > money. > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > for health fairs, > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > we're helping > with > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > our Saturday so we > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > encouraging > strangers > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > about money when > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > and have to put > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > climb up high even > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > glue on our hair > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > don't clear....it > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > so much more than > > money.... > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > Be Fatal > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > Times Staff Writers > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > waiting list for a > liver > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > sick enough to > rank near > > the top. > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > only a few hours > to get > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > then-director of the > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > faced a long wait > and was > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > Al-Harthi's son > Majed. > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > hospital accepted a > liver in his > > name. > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > director, transplanted > the organ > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > on the list, > > St. > > officials now acknowledge. The > misallocation, reported by > The Times > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > code governing > placement of > > donated organs. > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > than === message truncated === __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 .....Thank you very much for your input. I'm glad you mentioned that. It would be just like me to put my foot in my mouth. I'm sure Ric and I will go over everyhting that will be covered before we actually attempt it. Heck....he may not even want to do it when he hears me talk!......LOL. Any other ideas from would be greatly appreciated. Silvia > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > > Saudi Arabia, if > > they are > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > > very short > > quantity US > > > organs? > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > It's not about > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > > for One Legacy, > > the > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > > that governs St > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > article and Ric says > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > emails asking me how > > I > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > > I'd post it > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > > really isn't > > about > > > money. > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > > for health fairs, > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > > we're helping > > with > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > > our Saturday so we > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > > encouraging > > strangers > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > > about money when > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > > and have to put > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > climb up high even > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > > glue on our hair > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > don't clear....it > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > > so much more than > > > money.... > > > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > > Be Fatal > > > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > > Times Staff Writers > > > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > > waiting list for a > > liver > > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > > sick enough to > > rank near > > > the top. > > > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > > only a few hours > > to get > > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > > then-director of the > > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > > faced a long wait > > and was > > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > > Al-Harthi's son > > Majed. > > > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > > hospital accepted a > > liver in his > > > name. > > > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > > director, transplanted > > the organ > > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > > on the list, > > > St. > > > officials now acknowledge. The > > misallocation, reported by > > The Times > > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > > code governing > > placement of > > > donated organs. > > > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > > than > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I agree with you on that. I mean we ask for an ID to buy cigarrettes but a 12 year old can have an abortion without parental consent. I would certainlty want to know if it was my child. I have two daughters and I can only hope that, 1. I've taught them better than that. 2. If it happened they'd come to me. Silvia > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > > Saudi Arabia, if > > they are > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > > very short > > quantity US > > > organs? > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > It's not about > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > > for One Legacy, > > the > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > > that governs St > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > article and Ric says > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > emails asking me how > > I > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > > I'd post it > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > > really isn't > > about > > > money. > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > > for health fairs, > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > > we're helping > > with > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > > our Saturday so we > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > > encouraging > > strangers > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > > about money when > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > > and have to put > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > climb up high even > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > > glue on our hair > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > don't clear....it > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > > so much more than > > > money.... > > > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > > Be Fatal > > > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > > Times Staff Writers > > > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > > waiting list for a > > liver > > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > > sick enough to > > rank near > > > the top. > > > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > > only a few hours > > to get > > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > > then-director of the > > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > > faced a long wait > > and was > > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > > Al-Harthi's son > > Majed. > > > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > > hospital accepted a > > liver in his > > > name. > > > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > > director, transplanted > > the organ > > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > > on the list, > > > St. > > > officials now acknowledge. The > > misallocation, reported by > > The Times > > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > > code governing > > placement of > > > donated organs. > > > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > > than > === message truncated === > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music./unlimited/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 You made your point .....that kind of language was totally unneccessary. Silvia > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs in > > Saudi Arabia, if > > they are > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive the > > very short > > quantity US > > > organs? > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > It's not about > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an Ambassador > > for One Legacy, > > the > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same network > > that governs St > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > article and Ric says > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > emails asking me how > > I > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I thought > > I'd post it > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of us....it > > really isn't > > about > > > money. > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the sun > > for health fairs, > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it is > > we're helping > > with > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give up > > our Saturday so we > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation booth > > encouraging > > strangers > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell isn't > > about money when > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion float > > and have to put > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > climb up high even > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up with > > glue on our hair > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > don't clear....it > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it is > > so much more than > > > money.... > > > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deception Behind Liver-Transplant Switch Proved to > > Be Fatal > > > > > > By Ornstein and Alan Zarembo > > > Times Staff Writers > > > > > > October 13, 2005 > > > > > > In January 2003, after more than two years on a > > waiting list for a > > liver > > > transplant, Saad Al-Harthi was finally considered > > sick enough to > > rank near > > > the top. > > > > > > If a donated organ became available, he would have > > only a few hours > > to get > > > to St. Medical Center in Los Angeles. > > > > > > But that same month, Dr. R. Jr., > > then-director of the > > > hospital's liver transplant program, told him he > > faced a long wait > > and was > > > better off at home in Saudi Arabia, according to > > Al-Harthi's son > > Majed. > > > > > > That's where he was Sept. 8, 2003, when the > > hospital accepted a > > liver in his > > > name. > > > > > > and Dr. Ramos, his assistant > > director, transplanted > > the organ > > > into another Saudi national 50 places behind him > > on the list, > > > St. > > > officials now acknowledge. The > > misallocation, reported by > > The Times > > > last month, is a serious breach of the national > > code governing > > placement of > > > donated organs. > > > > > > Al-Harthi never knew any of this. He died less > > than > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________ > - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 OK ..Here we go..Whenever you gave the statistics about mixed doners, where did you get your statistics from? I can and will help you if you promise not to be one sided or should I say Liberal. Hcv that I have is a passion to me and I will give you my all to help.When do you wanna get started? --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > .....Thank you very much for your input. I'm > glad you mentioned > that. It would be just like me to put my foot in my > mouth. I'm sure > Ric and I will go over everyhting that will be > covered before we > actually attempt it. Heck....he may not even want > to do it when he > hears me talk!......LOL. Any other ideas from > would be greatly > appreciated. > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs > in > > > Saudi Arabia, if > > > they are > > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive > the > > > very short > > > quantity US > > > > organs? > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > It's not about > > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an > Ambassador > > > for One Legacy, > > > the > > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same > network > > > that governs St > > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > > article and Ric says > > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > > emails asking me how > > > I > > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I > thought > > > I'd post it > > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of > us....it > > > really isn't > > > about > > > > money. > > > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the > sun > > > for health fairs, > > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it > is > > > we're helping > > > with > > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give > up > > > our Saturday so we > > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation > booth > > > encouraging > > > strangers > > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell > isn't > > > about money when > > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion > float > > > and have to put > > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > > climb up high even > > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up > with > > > glue on our hair > > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > > don't clear....it > === message truncated === __________________________________ Start your day with - Make it your home page! http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 2002 From the NIH Concensus Conference on Hep C 35,000 new cases/year 2003 From the CDC 30,000 new cases/year and 12,000 deaths. However, cases may be under-reported because of a different diagnosis listed on death certificates. A 4-fold increase in new cases is expected by 2015 as those that are infected reach the time when they will start showing symptoms. By the year 2008, the CDC has estimated that the cases of decompensation will increase 279%, liver related deaths by 223%, and need for liver transplantation 528%. Silvia > > You did good Silvia. Speaking of stats, where can I find the > amount of new HCV cases reported in 2004? 05? Is it going up? > are all states reporting now? > ps. we are going to do the radio show. I was suggested that we > pre-record the first one. So all I have to do is get my pea > brain around how to do that. So stay tuned and practice your > radio voice. ric > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I am sorry that I got angry. It is a passion to me and I will cuss whenever I feel like it and I will promptly appologize. But SCREW a bunch of LIBERALS. --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > You made your point .....that kind of language > was totally > unneccessary. > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs > in > > > Saudi Arabia, if > > > they are > > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive > the > > > very short > > > quantity US > > > > organs? > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > It's not about > > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an > Ambassador > > > for One Legacy, > > > the > > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same > network > > > that governs St > > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > > article and Ric says > > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > > emails asking me how > > > I > > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I > thought > > > I'd post it > > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of > us....it > > > really isn't > > > about > > > > money. > > > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the > sun > > > for health fairs, > > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it > is > > > we're helping > > > with > > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give > up > > > our Saturday so we > > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation > booth > > > encouraging > > > strangers > > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell > isn't > > > about money when > > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion > float > > > and have to put > > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > > climb up high even > > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up > with > > > glue on our hair > > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > > don't clear....it > > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it > is > > > so much more than > > > > money.... > > > > > > > > Silvia > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Sylvia, I am sorry..But I am passionate about HCV because of the way that I caught it .. I just don't wanna see you mess up on radio... --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > I agree with you on that. I mean we ask for an ID > to buy cigarrettes > but a 12 year old can have an abortion without > parental consent. I > would certainlty want to know if it was my child. I > have two > daughters and I can only hope that, 1. I've taught > them better than > that. 2. If it happened they'd come to me. > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs > in > > > Saudi Arabia, if > > > they are > > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive > the > > > very short > > > quantity US > > > > organs? > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > It's not about > > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an > Ambassador > > > for One Legacy, > > > the > > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same > network > > > that governs St > > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > > article and Ric says > > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > > emails asking me how > > > I > > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I > thought > > > I'd post it > > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of > us....it > > > really isn't > > > about > > > > money. > > > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the > sun > > > for health fairs, > > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it > is > > > we're helping > > > with > > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give > up > > > our Saturday so we > > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation > booth > > > encouraging > > > strangers > > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell > isn't > > > about money when > > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion > float > > > and have to put > > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > > climb up high even > > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up > with > > > glue on our hair > > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > > don't clear....it > > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it > is > > > so much more than > > > > money.... > > > > > > > > Silvia > === message truncated === __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Oh heck, I ran my mouth and you are from Cali aren't you? Ohhhh< I will give all that I can to help you carry the message. First point of attact is the First LadY " --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > I agree with you on that. I mean we ask for an ID > to buy cigarrettes > but a 12 year old can have an abortion without > parental consent. I > would certainlty want to know if it was my child. I > have two > daughters and I can only hope that, 1. I've taught > them better than > that. 2. If it happened they'd come to me. > Silvia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not the money. Who is getting the organs > in > > > Saudi Arabia, if > > > they are > > > > importing their terminally ill here to receive > the > > > very short > > > quantity US > > > > organs? > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > It's not about > > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said on my previous post, I am an > Ambassador > > > for One Legacy, > > > the > > > > So CA Organ Procurement Network. The same > network > > > that governs St > > > > 's....so before someone else posts this > > > article and Ric says > > > > that it's all about money,....and I get a few > > > emails asking me how > > > I > > > > can be part of something so " turbid " ....I > thought > > > I'd post it > > > > myself.....and tell you that for some of > us....it > > > really isn't > > > about > > > > money. > > > > > > > > It's not about money when we go stand in the > sun > > > for health fairs, > > > > walks and runs and tournaments or whatever it > is > > > we're helping > > > with > > > > this week. It isn't about money when we give > up > > > our Saturday so we > > > > can be at the local mall's organ donation > booth > > > encouraging > > > strangers > > > > to consider donation.....and it sure as hell > isn't > > > about money when > > > > we go decorate the Rose parade organ donaion > float > > > and have to put > > > > our hands in uice water to get the flowers, or > > > climb up high even > > > > though we;re scared and somehow always end up > with > > > glue on our hair > > > > that we can't remove for days. > > > > > > > > I do this to build a net for those of you wqho > > > don't clear....it > > > > isn't perfect but that's all we have....and it > is > > > so much more than > > > > money.... > > > > > > > > Silvia > === message truncated === __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 OK Boom.. You like to through statistics out there, how interesting is that to an audience. --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > 2002 From the NIH Concensus Conference on Hep C > 35,000 new cases/year > 2003 From the CDC 30,000 new cases/year and 12,000 > deaths. > > However, cases may be under-reported because of a > different diagnosis > listed on death certificates. A 4-fold increase in > new cases is > expected by 2015 as those that are infected reach > the time when they > will start showing symptoms. > > By the year 2008, the CDC has estimated that the > cases of > decompensation will increase 279%, liver related > deaths by 223%, and > need for liver transplantation 528%. > Silvia > > > > > > You did good Silvia. Speaking of stats, where can > I find the > > amount of new HCV cases reported in 2004? 05? Is > it going up? > > are all states reporting now? > > ps. we are going to do the radio show. I was > suggested that we > > pre-record the first one. So all I have to do is > get my pea > > brain around how to do that. So stay tuned and > practice your > > radio voice. ric > > > > > > > __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Where do you get all of your stats from? Stats are good but they bore people during interviews. --- silvianursey <Bhprice425@...> wrote: > > 2002 From the NIH Concensus Conference on Hep C > 35,000 new cases/year > 2003 From the CDC 30,000 new cases/year and 12,000 > deaths. > > However, cases may be under-reported because of a > different diagnosis > listed on death certificates. A 4-fold increase in > new cases is > expected by 2015 as those that are infected reach > the time when they > will start showing symptoms. > > By the year 2008, the CDC has estimated that the > cases of > decompensation will increase 279%, liver related > deaths by 223%, and > need for liver transplantation 528%. > Silvia > > > > > > You did good Silvia. Speaking of stats, where can > I find the > > amount of new HCV cases reported in 2004? 05? Is > it going up? > > are all states reporting now? > > ps. we are going to do the radio show. I was > suggested that we > > pre-record the first one. So all I have to do is > get my pea > > brain around how to do that. So stay tuned and > practice your > > radio voice. ric > > > > > > > __________________________________ Start your day with - Make it your home page! http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Hey LIBERALS get hepatitis too . I thought we were all in this together..ric (major number 1 first class liberal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 it was an answer for me. My question. We will not tell the world. we will not bore anybody. we will not give out any wrong information. Don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Ric, I am not at all in any way trying to get on your turf byno means what so ever, but I am extremly blessed whenever it comes to writing speeches. Give me a chance and let me try and help you all out.Bill --- Ric <richobbs1@...> wrote: > > Hey LIBERALS get hepatitis too . I thought we > were all in > this together..ric (major number 1 first class > liberal) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 You love W dont ya --- Ric <richobbs1@...> wrote: > > Hey LIBERALS get hepatitis too . I thought we > were all in > this together..ric (major number 1 first class > liberal) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Ric, a question for you, I am new to this group, but how do you have all the time diverse to this group? --- Ric <richobbs1@...> wrote: > it was an answer for me. My question. We will > not tell the > world. we will not bore anybody. we will not give > out any wrong > information. Don't worry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 if your so great at speeches, you should prolly go to washington and write for W. He's in a bit of trouble you know. No, I don't love our president. I don't hate his soul by any means. I just hate his arrogance.....ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.