Re: Asperger & Bipolar

[Guest guest]

that is very interesting to me since I have a DD with bipolar...she is in a

group home right now (14 y/o) but she does have this sensory overload stuff

that makes her fly into rages.

D. Marie Ralstin-

University of Oregon

Graduate Teaching Fellow, Department of Sociology

Native American Event Coordinator, Office of Admissions

717 PLC Hall

Eugene, Oregon 97403

541-346-5071

dralstin@...

d.ralstin@...

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dralstin/

Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which we should not

put. - Winston Churchill

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over

generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving

lunatic. - Dresden

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

>>I thought this was very interesting. The author has been diagnosed with

>>AS, but not bipolar, though this behavior certainly sounds like bipolar.

>>This makes me think that perhaps some of those with AS that are also being

>>diagnosed as Bipolar, aren't really Bipolar, but the behavior has to do

>>with sensory integration problems and handling them. Any thoughts?<<

Many with ASD do apparently 'fly into rages' with no warning. This may be

sensory, but I think that often it has more to do with not being able to

recognise their own emotions and not realising that they are starting to get

upset, and consequently not using/showing all those little behaviours which

NT people do to start to relieve stress. So pressure builds up inside them

and is then let out explosively. Also, they do not have the social and

emotional understanding to realise that not all emotions have to be

extreme - so being just a little bit mad is displayed as a roaring rage, and

being just a little happy comes out as manic.

I think Tony Attwood, in his book, talks about teaching 'emotional

thermometers' - that there are gradations to emotions. These things usually

have to be taught, as someone with ASD just does not have the social

awareness to 'pick it up' like NT children do.

in England

[Guest guest]

It's a fine line we walk, if you ask me. Things overlap. Beth was dx'd with bp in this last hospital stay. Her moods are (were) really up and down depending on circumstances, some of which could be interpreted as sensory based, but not all, if you ask me. For example, last summer, one night in July. It was a nightmare. Her boyfriend had dumped her, she seemed to be in a funk of depression after school was out as the summer weeks went on (not much structure although I tried). On that July night, outside of Blockbuster, she sat down on the sidewalk and wouldn't get up. She was mad about something (which happened SO often). Her anger slid into depression....her girlfriend was with us too. I was picking up pizzas for the moving group...my son and DIL had moved that day (3 houses from ME! It HAD been a day of celebration). So I called my DIL and told her she would have to come and get them from my car which she did. Beth moved on down the sidewalk but stayed there for an hour, as we tried to console her and reason with her and GET HER IN THE CAR. It was getting dark by this time. Eventually we picked her up and put her in the car. (Her friend is 6'4 and huge and strong.) Beth was furious and out of control at this point, kicking, screaming. As we drove away she tried to jump out of the moving car six times. We were frantic. I was headed toward the hospital, praying we'd get there...the other girl was trying her best to hold on to beth and shut the door each time.

In the five minutes (eternity) it took to get to the hospital beth became more conversational...she did NOT want to go there (they mess with your mind!)....and I said we didn't have to if she would calm down, which she did...slowly, as I drove around the parking lot. I eventually drove home and within five minutes she and her friend were talking and laughing like the whole thing never happened.

And that's oe of my experiences with bipolar....

Maralee

>^..^<

Asperger & Bipolar

I am currently reading a book called Pretending to be Normal: Living with Asperger's Syndrome by Liane Holliday Willey, and I came across this passage which intrigued me and seemed to fit with recent discussion here- "According to them (her aunts), I could turn on a dime from being a calm, collected and rather quiet child, to one that seemed filled with the energy of a roaring tornado. One moment would finds me calmly working on a project- typically building houses and towns out of paper or cardboard boxes- and the next I would be stomping the hard work into piles of scraps. My aunts were never certain why I flew into a rage; I never told them my reasons. I suspect I flipped the moment my sensory system became overloaded. I don't think I knew how to diffuse myself when I was caught between something I really wanted to do and the problem that came from my sensory integration dysfunction. I imagine I just held on as long as I could and then, unable to realize when enough was enough, I let loose with rage and tantrums."

I thought this was very interesting. The author has been diagnosed with AS, but not bipolar, though this behavior certainly sounds like bipolar. This makes me think that perhaps some of those with AS that are also being diagnosed as Bipolar, aren't really Bipolar, but the behavior has to do with sensory integration problems and handling them. Any thoughts?

Anne

[Guest guest]

Anne,

I agree to an extent... however, my son has an obsession with guns

and knives and talks about hurting himself and others often. He has

pulled knives out on me. He also hallucinates and has very bizarre

stories to tell. This was all when he was not medicated for Bi-Polar

disorder, now the the Risperdal, these problems have been minimal. We

have a long hystory of bi-polar in our family, so I beleive he is Bi-

Polar in conjunction with Aspergers. However, you are right, some

other children that go into rage could only be from their sensory

dysfunction... as long as they are not threatening to kill themselves

and others...or seeing cats claw their eyes out.. and that kind of

stuff. Bi-Polar disorder can be very scary if not treated... I know

of this first hand...

Jean

[Guest guest]

Has everyone with a child on Strattera seen this:

> http://www.vidyya.com/vol6/v6i353_5.htm

>

> New warning for ADHD drug, Strattera (atomoxetine hydrochloride)

in England

[Guest guest]

Hi Marie,

I see are going to the University of Oregon! I went there for six years, got my bachelors and my masters in Leisure Studies, specialized in Therapeutic Recreation. They cut Leisure Studies from the university after I graduated with my masters in '93, when they cut the school of Human Development and Performance. I thought it was a shame, but anyway they reorganized the Leisure department, and now I think it is in the School of Architecture under Parks and Recreation, something like that. Dance and P.E. and several others are just gone now I think.

Anyway you say you have a daughter in a group home. That is interesting. I have a son who has been at home with me all of his life, , we call him Marty. He is 40 now and has had lots of serious problems over the years. One day he just started having seizures at about the age of 2, was absolutely normal before that, and as he began to take medications to try and control them he regressed in his ability to speak and learn and socialize. They told me at the time it would be impossible for me to keep him at home, and wanted me to send him to Fairview institution in Salem, but I refused. This was in the 60s and all they could do was to label him "retarded." He went to Pearl Buck Center for many years, but none of the programs ever worked to help him, instead just aggravated him. So then they labeled him, "severely retarded."

Then they mainstreamed him into public school when he was about 13 and things got even worse and he developed really wild and crazy behaviors, biting his arm and screaming when overloaded with too much noise and stimulation. I tried to tell them he couldn't handle the noise of all the screaming kids, and was mad because he could not talk like they did, but nobody agreed with me then. Now I think that the term "autism" is more widely understood, and can see that this is what he had all along. They also labeled him "noncompliant" and worked to try and make him comply, but all their programs just made him crazy, and he never did comply with any of them. It was kind of funny really, I to tell you the truth I admired him for resisting them.

Now he sits all day at home with me in his chair by the window. He cannot walk unassisted anymore, and has a food tube in his stomach because he cannot swallow so well either. I was surprised to learn a few years ago that he got cerebral palsy from all his years of seizures, I thought you had to be born with that. When he was younger he ran all over the place, but not anymore. He used to say a few words, but I haven't heard him say one in a long time, he used to love to say, "Good boy!" and "Pizza! Eat" things like that. He has had a LOT of seizures, used to have at least 20 grand mal a month for years, but now only has about 4 a month, or so.

What he does now is he sits all day and he plays with a shoe lace, it is autistic behavior, he has always liked small little things which he pushes in and out of whatever he can find. It is self stimulating behavior. In his case right now he is using the slots between his fingers to push the tip of the shoe lace in and out, has used many different objects over the years. But even at that, he is very alert, and sees and hears well, watches some t.v. and looks lovingly and me, and at his little niece, and two nephews, who I take care of for my daughter every day while she works in south Eugene as a mail carrier, my grandchildren.

It is fun to take him out too, we use a wheelchair. He is so alert to what he sees and seems to really enjoy getting out. We took him up to Portland not long ago and went to the zoo and he loved it, especially the elephants, he just stared at them in amazement. His brother Jeff pushed him all over the place, and his wife and two kids were along too. Jeff also has a masters from the U of O, his is in Computer Science. He was Phi Beta Kappa and a graduate teaching fellow when he was there.

Marty's aide and I also take Marty to church on Sunday evenings, and he enjoys it a lot. We walk him in there, used to take the wheelchair but it was such a hassle, and he can walk that far with assistance. You should have seen him the first time we decided not to use the wheelchair, he really laughed and showed off how good he could walk!

Cute kid, my son!

Would like to hear more from you, we live in Springfield over near Fred Meyers at 5th and "Q" Street, I have been in this area all my life, grew up on "L" Street.

Now I have to go and give my grandson, Lucas, a bath and dress him. He is just 5 months old. I have Sierra, 7, and , 4, playing upstairs. They are going nutty waiting for Christmas. My whole family is coming over. Oldest son, Tom, and his girlfriend, he is a musician, Jeff and his family, wife Penny, , 8, and Timmy, 6, my daughter Tara, and her three kids, maybe her husband if he is out of jail (long story) and my mom who is 86 now. My husband who I was married to for 31 years and divorced from for 10 passed away a few years ago. But us women carry on!

It was nice meeting you!

Carolyn in Oregon

RE: Asperger & Bipolar

that is very interesting to me since I have a DD with bipolar...she is in a group home right now (14 y/o) but she does have this sensory overload stuff that makes her fly into rages.D. Marie Ralstin-University of OregonGraduate Teaching Fellow, Department of SociologyNative American Event Coordinator, Office of Admissions717 PLC HallEugene, Oregon 97403541-346-5071dralstin@...d.ralstin@...http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dralstin/Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which we should not put. - Winston ChurchillWhen a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. - Dresden

[Guest guest]

"Cats clawing their eyes out" <--- that doesn't sound like bi-polar, it sounds like scitzophrenia or one similar and risperdal is commonly used for the schitz-psychotic conditions.

Autumn

Re: Asperger & Bipolar

Anne,I agree to an extent... however, my son has an obsession with guns and knives and talks about hurting himself and others often. He has pulled knives out on me. He also hallucinates and has very bizarre stories to tell. This was all when he was not medicated for Bi-Polar disorder, now the the Risperdal, these problems have been minimal. We have a long hystory of bi-polar in our family, so I beleive he is Bi-Polar in conjunction with Aspergers. However, you are right, some other children that go into rage could only be from their sensory dysfunction... as long as they are not threatening to kill themselves and others...or seeing cats claw their eyes out.. and that kind of stuff. Bi-Polar disorder can be very scary if not treated... I know of this first hand... Jean

[Guest guest]

Autumn,

I agree.. I have often wondered if it wasn't something like that....

he comes up with very bizzare stuff for a 5 year old... but like I

said, Risperdal has been our savior, in conjunction with Prozac...

for the OCD and anxiety. Thanks!

Jean

> " Cats clawing their eyes out " <--- that doesn't sound like bi-

polar, it sounds like scitzophrenia or one similar and risperdal is

commonly used for the schitz-psychotic conditions.

>

> Autumn

>

> Re: Asperger & Bipolar

>

>

>

> Anne,

>

> I agree to an extent... however, my son has an obsession with

guns

> and knives and talks about hurting himself and others often. He

has

> pulled knives out on me. He also hallucinates and has very

bizarre

> stories to tell. This was all when he was not medicated for Bi-

Polar

> disorder, now the the Risperdal, these problems have been

minimal. We

> have a long hystory of bi-polar in our family, so I beleive he is

Bi-

> Polar in conjunction with Aspergers. However, you are right, some

> other children that go into rage could only be from their sensory

> dysfunction... as long as they are not threatening to kill

themselves

> and others...or seeing cats claw their eyes out.. and that kind

of

> stuff. Bi-Polar disorder can be very scary if not treated... I

know

> of this first hand...

>

> Jean

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is horrible that you and your son are going through that. Thank God for medications that help these poor kiddos.

Anne

-- Re: Asperger & Bipolar

Anne,I agree to an extent... however, my son has an obsession with guns and knives and talks about hurting himself and others often. He has pulled knives out on me. He also hallucinates and has very bizarre stories to tell. This was all when he was not medicated for Bi-Polar disorder, now the the Risperdal, these problems have been minimal. We have a long hystory of bi-polar in our family, so I beleive he is Bi-Polar in conjunction with Aspergers. However, you are right, some other children that go into rage could only be from their sensory dysfunction... as long as they are not threatening to kill themselves and others...or seeing cats claw their eyes out.. and that kind of stuff. Bi-Polar disorder can be very scary if not treated... I know of this first hand... Jean

[Guest guest]

Wow Maralee. Thank you for sharing this with us. Bipolar is truly a horrible disorder.

Anne

-- Asperger & Bipolar

I am currently reading a book called Pretending to be Normal: Living with Asperger's Syndrome by Liane Holliday Willey, and I came across this passage which intrigued me and seemed to fit with recent discussion here- "According to them (her aunts), I could turn on a dime from being a calm, collected and rather quiet child, to one that seemed filled with the energy of a roaring tornado. One moment would finds me calmly working on a project- typically building houses and towns out of paper or cardboard boxes- and the next I would be stomping the hard work into piles of scraps. My aunts were never certain why I flew into a rage; I never told them my reasons. I suspect I flipped the moment my sensory system became overloaded. I don't think I knew how to diffuse myself when I was caught between something I really wanted to do and the problem that came from my sensory integration dysfunction. I imagine I just held on as long as I could and then, unable to realize when enough was enough, I let loose with rage and tantrums."

I thought this was very interesting. The author has been diagnosed with AS, but not bipolar, though this behavior certainly sounds like bipolar. This makes me think that perhaps some of those with AS that are also being diagnosed as Bipolar, aren't really Bipolar, but the behavior has to do with sensory integration problems and handling them. Any thoughts?

Anne

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne...

Yes, it certainly is challenging. But I have to be grateful; we've had an awesome fall! Beth has attended school (special ed school) every single day, not missing one! She has been very well-balanced in her moods and not full of anxiety as she had been prior to that. She started trileptal in August after her hospitalization. And she and her boyfriend got back together in September. I am attributing this lovely lull in the storm to those two things...

She also has two volunteer jobs right now which she really enjoys. And today we applied online for her to work at Jewel Food store....for pay this time. We'll see what happens!

I am grateful!

Maralee

>^..^<

Wow Maralee. Thank you for sharing this with us. Bipolar is truly a horrible disorder.

Anne

-- RE: Asperger & Bipolar

It's a fine line we walk, if you ask me. Things overlap. Beth was dx'd with bp in this last hospital stay. Her moods are (were) really up and down depending on circumstances, some of which could be interpreted as sensory based, but not all, if you ask me. For example, last summer, one night in July. It was a nightmare. Her boyfriend had dumped her, she seemed to be in a funk of depression after school was out as the summer weeks went on (not much structure although I tried). On that July night, outside of Blockbuster, she sat down on the sidewalk and wouldn't get up. She was mad about something (which happened SO often). Her anger slid into depression....her girlfriend was with us too. I was picking up pizzas for the moving group...my son and DIL had moved that day (3 houses from ME! It HAD been a day of celebration). So I called my DIL and told her she would have to come and get them from my car which she did. Beth moved on down the sidewalk but stayed there for an hour, as we tried to console her and reason with her and GET HER IN THE CAR. It was getting dark by this time. Eventually we picked her up and put her in the car. (Her friend is 6'4 and huge and strong.) Beth was furious and out of control at this point, kicking, screaming. As we drove away she tried to jump out of the moving car six times. We were frantic. I was headed toward the hospital, praying we'd get there...the other girl was trying her best to hold on to beth and shut the door each time.

In the five minutes (eternity) it took to get to the hospital beth became more conversational...she did NOT want to go there (they mess with your mind!)....and I said we didn't have to if she would calm down, which she did...slowly, as I drove around the parking lot. I eventually drove home and within five minutes she and her friend were talking and laughing like the whole thing never happened.

And that's oe of my experiences with bipolar....

Maralee

>^..^<