Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

[Guest guest]

Hi Franz and EveryOne,

It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

They

also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

hyaluronidase,

and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal - except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

-- In kombucha tea , Frantz Mathias <frantzgm@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other

foods( Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values

of fermented foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical

composition that defines a given food. IN other words certain

components have to be present for a given food to be labelled as say,

Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer. It is true that some culture may

cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I have mixed KT withKimchee and

rather like the taste... I would not be surprised that the liquid that

comes out of this mixture would grow some kind of compound, a SCOBY if

you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY be a true Kombucha

SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be KT? I think

that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like the

taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend

of mine grows a SCOBY from my

> brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it...

That registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one

develops a SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a

real Kombucha SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these

hybrids might not be healthier than the original... I do not know and

few people do.. The contrary could be also true that the combination

is not so health-giving.. I am not stating it just speculating. I am

however stating that WE DO NOT KNOW.. yet...

>

>

> yoganandaom <OM@...> wrote: Hi

EveryOne,

>

> There is no reason to think that Kombucha started from GT or any other

> unflavored, unpasteurized, untreated bottled Kombucha is not true

> Kombucha. Lots of people on this list have started their Kombucha from

> GT's and others and are very satisfied with the results...

>

> I used to sell bottled Organic Kombucha Manna Tea at my local health

> food stores. Lots of people bought it, loved it and started their own

> Kombucha from one of the bottles I sold. I am sure they had the same

> Kombucha I did after that:-))

>

> There are many ways to start Kombucha: one is from commercially sold

> Kombucha tea, another from sharing with a friend, - like someone on

> this list, and another is to buy a Kombucha Colony. The important

> thing is to add Kombucha to your life and share it with others.

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> All products made and bottled in glass

> 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

>

> -

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

> Visit the Auto Green Center.

>

>

[Guest guest]

-Sorry folks,

Acetic acid is found in many types of vinegars such as wine vinegar,

and Kombucha, but Apple Cider Vinegar contains Malic acid.....not

found in Kombucha.

Happy Healthy Brewing EveryOne,

Bev

-- In kombucha tea , " yoganandaom " <OM@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Franz and EveryOne,

>

> It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

> all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

>

> As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

> but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

> vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

>

> As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

> all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

> Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

> scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

> not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

>

> Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

> proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

> Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

> Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

> Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

> friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

>

> Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

> Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

> anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

> some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

> They

> also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

> hyaluronidase,

> and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal -

except

> for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

>

> Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

> and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> -- In kombucha tea , Frantz Mathias <frantzgm@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other

> foods( Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values

> of fermented foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical

> composition that defines a given food. IN other words certain

> components have to be present for a given food to be labelled as say,

> Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer. It is true that some culture may

> cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I have mixed KT withKimchee and

> rather like the taste... I would not be surprised that the liquid that

> comes out of this mixture would grow some kind of compound, a SCOBY if

> you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY be a true Kombucha

> SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be KT? I think

> that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like the

> taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

> lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend

> of mine grows a SCOBY from my

> > brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it...

> That registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one

> develops a SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a

> real Kombucha SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these

> hybrids might not be healthier than the original... I do not know and

> few people do.. The contrary could be also true that the combination

> is not so health-giving.. I am not stating it just speculating. I am

> however stating that WE DO NOT KNOW.. yet...

> >

> >

> > yoganandaom <OM@> wrote: Hi

> EveryOne,

> >

> > There is no reason to think that Kombucha started from GT or any

other

> > unflavored, unpasteurized, untreated bottled Kombucha is not true

> > Kombucha. Lots of people on this list have started their Kombucha

from

> > GT's and others and are very satisfied with the results...

> >

> > I used to sell bottled Organic Kombucha Manna Tea at my local health

> > food stores. Lots of people bought it, loved it and started their own

> > Kombucha from one of the bottles I sold. I am sure they had the same

> > Kombucha I did after that:-))

> >

> > There are many ways to start Kombucha: one is from commercially sold

> > Kombucha tea, another from sharing with a friend, - like someone on

> > this list, and another is to buy a Kombucha Colony. The important

> > thing is to add Kombucha to your life and share it with others.

> >

> > Peace, Love and Harmony,

> > Bev

> >

> > Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> > Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> > http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> > Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> > http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> > All products made and bottled in glass

> > 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

> > Visit the Auto Green Center.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

-Sorry folks,

Acetic acid is found in many types of vinegars such as wine vinegar,

and Kombucha, but Apple Cider Vinegar contains Malic acid.....not

found in Kombucha.

Happy Healthy Brewing EveryOne,

Bev

-- In kombucha tea , " yoganandaom " <OM@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Franz and EveryOne,

>

> It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

> all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

>

> As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

> but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

> vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

>

> As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

> all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

> Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

> scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

> not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

>

> Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

> proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

> Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

> Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

> Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

> friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

>

> Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

> Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

> anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

> some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

> They

> also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

> hyaluronidase,

> and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal -

except

> for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

>

> Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

> and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> -- In kombucha tea , Frantz Mathias <frantzgm@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other

> foods( Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values

> of fermented foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical

> composition that defines a given food. IN other words certain

> components have to be present for a given food to be labelled as say,

> Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer. It is true that some culture may

> cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I have mixed KT withKimchee and

> rather like the taste... I would not be surprised that the liquid that

> comes out of this mixture would grow some kind of compound, a SCOBY if

> you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY be a true Kombucha

> SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be KT? I think

> that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like the

> taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

> lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend

> of mine grows a SCOBY from my

> > brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it...

> That registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one

> develops a SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a

> real Kombucha SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these

> hybrids might not be healthier than the original... I do not know and

> few people do.. The contrary could be also true that the combination

> is not so health-giving.. I am not stating it just speculating. I am

> however stating that WE DO NOT KNOW.. yet...

> >

> >

> > yoganandaom <OM@> wrote: Hi

> EveryOne,

> >

> > There is no reason to think that Kombucha started from GT or any

other

> > unflavored, unpasteurized, untreated bottled Kombucha is not true

> > Kombucha. Lots of people on this list have started their Kombucha

from

> > GT's and others and are very satisfied with the results...

> >

> > I used to sell bottled Organic Kombucha Manna Tea at my local health

> > food stores. Lots of people bought it, loved it and started their own

> > Kombucha from one of the bottles I sold. I am sure they had the same

> > Kombucha I did after that:-))

> >

> > There are many ways to start Kombucha: one is from commercially sold

> > Kombucha tea, another from sharing with a friend, - like someone on

> > this list, and another is to buy a Kombucha Colony. The important

> > thing is to add Kombucha to your life and share it with others.

> >

> > Peace, Love and Harmony,

> > Bev

> >

> > Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> > Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> > http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> > Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> > http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> > All products made and bottled in glass

> > 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

> > Visit the Auto Green Center.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

-Sorry folks,

Acetic acid is found in many types of vinegars such as wine vinegar,

and Kombucha, but Apple Cider Vinegar contains Malic acid.....not

found in Kombucha.

Happy Healthy Brewing EveryOne,

Bev

-- In kombucha tea , " yoganandaom " <OM@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Franz and EveryOne,

>

> It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

> all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

>

> As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

> but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

> vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

>

> As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

> all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

> Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

> scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

> not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

>

> Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

> proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

> Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

> Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

> Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

> friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

>

> Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

> Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

> anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

> some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

> They

> also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

> hyaluronidase,

> and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal -

except

> for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

>

> Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

> and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> -- In kombucha tea , Frantz Mathias <frantzgm@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other

> foods( Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values

> of fermented foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical

> composition that defines a given food. IN other words certain

> components have to be present for a given food to be labelled as say,

> Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer. It is true that some culture may

> cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I have mixed KT withKimchee and

> rather like the taste... I would not be surprised that the liquid that

> comes out of this mixture would grow some kind of compound, a SCOBY if

> you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY be a true Kombucha

> SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be KT? I think

> that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like the

> taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

> lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend

> of mine grows a SCOBY from my

> > brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it...

> That registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one

> develops a SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a

> real Kombucha SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these

> hybrids might not be healthier than the original... I do not know and

> few people do.. The contrary could be also true that the combination

> is not so health-giving.. I am not stating it just speculating. I am

> however stating that WE DO NOT KNOW.. yet...

> >

> >

> > yoganandaom <OM@> wrote: Hi

> EveryOne,

> >

> > There is no reason to think that Kombucha started from GT or any

other

> > unflavored, unpasteurized, untreated bottled Kombucha is not true

> > Kombucha. Lots of people on this list have started their Kombucha

from

> > GT's and others and are very satisfied with the results...

> >

> > I used to sell bottled Organic Kombucha Manna Tea at my local health

> > food stores. Lots of people bought it, loved it and started their own

> > Kombucha from one of the bottles I sold. I am sure they had the same

> > Kombucha I did after that:-))

> >

> > There are many ways to start Kombucha: one is from commercially sold

> > Kombucha tea, another from sharing with a friend, - like someone on

> > this list, and another is to buy a Kombucha Colony. The important

> > thing is to add Kombucha to your life and share it with others.

> >

> > Peace, Love and Harmony,

> > Bev

> >

> > Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> > Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> > http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> > Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> > http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> > All products made and bottled in glass

> > 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

> > Visit the Auto Green Center.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

-Sorry folks,

Acetic acid is found in many types of vinegars such as wine vinegar,

and Kombucha, but Apple Cider Vinegar contains Malic acid.....not

found in Kombucha.

Happy Healthy Brewing EveryOne,

Bev

-- In kombucha tea , " yoganandaom " <OM@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Franz and EveryOne,

>

> It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

> all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

>

> As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

> but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

> vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

>

> As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

> all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

> Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

> scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

> not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

>

> Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

> proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

> Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

> Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

> Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

> friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

>

> Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

> Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

> anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

> some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

> They

> also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

> hyaluronidase,

> and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal -

except

> for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

>

> Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

> and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> -- In kombucha tea , Frantz Mathias <frantzgm@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other

> foods( Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values

> of fermented foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical

> composition that defines a given food. IN other words certain

> components have to be present for a given food to be labelled as say,

> Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer. It is true that some culture may

> cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I have mixed KT withKimchee and

> rather like the taste... I would not be surprised that the liquid that

> comes out of this mixture would grow some kind of compound, a SCOBY if

> you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY be a true Kombucha

> SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be KT? I think

> that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like the

> taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

> lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend

> of mine grows a SCOBY from my

> > brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it...

> That registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one

> develops a SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a

> real Kombucha SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these

> hybrids might not be healthier than the original... I do not know and

> few people do.. The contrary could be also true that the combination

> is not so health-giving.. I am not stating it just speculating. I am

> however stating that WE DO NOT KNOW.. yet...

> >

> >

> > yoganandaom <OM@> wrote: Hi

> EveryOne,

> >

> > There is no reason to think that Kombucha started from GT or any

other

> > unflavored, unpasteurized, untreated bottled Kombucha is not true

> > Kombucha. Lots of people on this list have started their Kombucha

from

> > GT's and others and are very satisfied with the results...

> >

> > I used to sell bottled Organic Kombucha Manna Tea at my local health

> > food stores. Lots of people bought it, loved it and started their own

> > Kombucha from one of the bottles I sold. I am sure they had the same

> > Kombucha I did after that:-))

> >

> > There are many ways to start Kombucha: one is from commercially sold

> > Kombucha tea, another from sharing with a friend, - like someone on

> > this list, and another is to buy a Kombucha Colony. The important

> > thing is to add Kombucha to your life and share it with others.

> >

> > Peace, Love and Harmony,

> > Bev

> >

> > Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> > Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> > http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> > Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> > http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> > All products made and bottled in glass

> > 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

> > Visit the Auto Green Center.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Galye and Bonnie, What I am saying is that if you use a bottle of GT to make

kombucha --- since you can not do what he is doing --- it is very unlikely

that you will be able to produce what he has produced.

In other words you will probably produce something that is different than

you originally started with.

If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you just want

a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of choices.

Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all ferments

are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

........................................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " imgayleim " gsmarks@... imgayleim

Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:36 am (PST)

>

>

> In a message dated 7/25/2007 9:44:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> eddy@... writes:

>

> Gayle, if you mean just grow something-Yes SOMETHING will grow. . .

> If you mean kombucha than maybe No.

>

> Why would it be crazy on your part or anyone's to try to replicate

GT's ?

> (or anyone's kombucha tea)

>

> What is the disconnect between raw organic kombucha with nothing

added and

> home-brewing kombucha tea which has been done for thousands of

years in the

> home?

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.www

>

>

>

> So Gayle,

> Are you saying that the scoby that I grew from the bottle of GT's

is NOT

> kombucha? The first brew tasted like great tart apple cider

vinegar. I thought

> it was wonderful. I don't want to be making something that might

make me

> sick?

>

> Bonnie

>

>

>Hi Bonnie...No....I didn't say it wouldn't be Kombucha...Ed said it

wouldn't be Kombucha. I don't know why that is....the science of it

escapes me.....

As for me...I fully intend to brew with the SCOBY when it fully

matures and hopefully I will enjoy whatever comes forth!!!!

I personally think I ought to be able to trust that GT's is really

Kombucha...I mean, I trust I a buying a Kombucha SCOBY from someone

on line that says theya are selling me a Kombucha colony...right???

So, Bonnie, no...I don't know why it wouldn't be Kombucha...

Warm Regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

Galye and Bonnie, What I am saying is that if you use a bottle of GT to make

kombucha --- since you can not do what he is doing --- it is very unlikely

that you will be able to produce what he has produced.

In other words you will probably produce something that is different than

you originally started with.

If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you just want

a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of choices.

Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all ferments

are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

........................................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " imgayleim " gsmarks@... imgayleim

Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:36 am (PST)

>

>

> In a message dated 7/25/2007 9:44:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> eddy@... writes:

>

> Gayle, if you mean just grow something-Yes SOMETHING will grow. . .

> If you mean kombucha than maybe No.

>

> Why would it be crazy on your part or anyone's to try to replicate

GT's ?

> (or anyone's kombucha tea)

>

> What is the disconnect between raw organic kombucha with nothing

added and

> home-brewing kombucha tea which has been done for thousands of

years in the

> home?

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.www

>

>

>

> So Gayle,

> Are you saying that the scoby that I grew from the bottle of GT's

is NOT

> kombucha? The first brew tasted like great tart apple cider

vinegar. I thought

> it was wonderful. I don't want to be making something that might

make me

> sick?

>

> Bonnie

>

>

>Hi Bonnie...No....I didn't say it wouldn't be Kombucha...Ed said it

wouldn't be Kombucha. I don't know why that is....the science of it

escapes me.....

As for me...I fully intend to brew with the SCOBY when it fully

matures and hopefully I will enjoy whatever comes forth!!!!

I personally think I ought to be able to trust that GT's is really

Kombucha...I mean, I trust I a buying a Kombucha SCOBY from someone

on line that says theya are selling me a Kombucha colony...right???

So, Bonnie, no...I don't know why it wouldn't be Kombucha...

Warm Regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

>

> Galye and Bonnie, What I am saying is that if you use a bottle of

GT to make

> kombucha --- since you can not do what he is doing --- it is very

unlikely

> that you will be able to produce what he has produced.

>

> In other words you will probably produce something that is

different than

> you originally started with.

>

> If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you

just want

> a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of

choices.

> Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all

ferments

> are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

>

Hi Ed...Gosh no! That is not at ALL what I am saying! I never

expected or even wanted to try to replicate GT's. I know the

variables are just too multitudinous to accomplish that! (thus my

comment about the purple walls)

It just had not been discussed on the list since I joined whether a

SCOBY could could be produced from KT (without a mother SCOBY) so I

just set out to see if it could happen. Some of us newbies were jsut

all very curious about that. Sure, I could have used some of my own

brew for the experiment...but thought, what the heck...use GT's and

have three strains to play with if it works instead of the two I have.

Then I read Len Porzio's directions on producing a super SCOBY and

thought, heck, why not try that???

Ummm....just one more thing....you totally lost me on the cabbage and

salt thing???? What is that about? (sorry if it is a simple

reference I'm just not cognizant of)

Warm regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

>

> Galye and Bonnie, What I am saying is that if you use a bottle of

GT to make

> kombucha --- since you can not do what he is doing --- it is very

unlikely

> that you will be able to produce what he has produced.

>

> In other words you will probably produce something that is

different than

> you originally started with.

>

> If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you

just want

> a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of

choices.

> Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all

ferments

> are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

>

Hi Ed...Gosh no! That is not at ALL what I am saying! I never

expected or even wanted to try to replicate GT's. I know the

variables are just too multitudinous to accomplish that! (thus my

comment about the purple walls)

It just had not been discussed on the list since I joined whether a

SCOBY could could be produced from KT (without a mother SCOBY) so I

just set out to see if it could happen. Some of us newbies were jsut

all very curious about that. Sure, I could have used some of my own

brew for the experiment...but thought, what the heck...use GT's and

have three strains to play with if it works instead of the two I have.

Then I read Len Porzio's directions on producing a super SCOBY and

thought, heck, why not try that???

Ummm....just one more thing....you totally lost me on the cabbage and

salt thing???? What is that about? (sorry if it is a simple

reference I'm just not cognizant of)

Warm regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

Frantz, thank you. That is my point and my curiosity.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..................................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " Frantz Mathias " frantzgm@... frantzgm

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:14 pm (PST)

Hi

I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other foods(

Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values of fermented

foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical composition that

defines a given food. IN other words certain components have to be present

for a given food to be labelled as say, Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer.

It is true that some culture may cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I

have mixed KT withKimchee and rather like the taste... I would not be

surprised that the liquid that comes out of this mixture would grow some

kind of compound, a SCOBY if you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY

be a true Kombucha SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be

KT? I think that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like

the taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend of

mine grows a SCOBY from my

brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it... That

registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one develops a

SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a real Kombucha

SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these hybrids might not be

healthier than the original... I do not know and few people do.. The

contrary could be also true that the combination is not so health-giving.. I

am not stating it just speculating. I am however stating that WE DO NOT

KNOW.. yet...

[Guest guest]

Bev, you quoted Roussin www.kombucha-research.com

His entire report may be downloaded from his web site.

E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different chemical

analysis of Kombucha samples from all over North America and even some from

Europe. ... "

" ...If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should Read This Book!

Why? Because, It Separates the Facts From the Hype! ... "

Another important report for the safety of Kombucha

http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kt_cornell.htm

Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial activity of the

fermented tea Kombucha

C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

Department of Food Science, Cornell University,

Ithaca, New York 14853

only three things that were common in all kombucha;

acetic acid, gluconic acid, and fructose.

The typical bacteria;

Acetobacter Bacterium; gluconicum, xylinum, xylinoides, Ketogenum.

The typical yeasts;

Saccharomycodes ludwigii, Saccharomycodes apiculatus, Schizosaccharomyces

pombe, Zygosaccharomyes, Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Yes, you can grow a full SCOBY from a bottle.

But what's in the bottle?

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " yoganandaom " OM@... yoganandaom

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:17 pm (PST)

Hi Franz and EveryOne,

It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

They

also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

hyaluronidase,

and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal - except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

[Guest guest]

Frantz, thank you. That is my point and my curiosity.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..................................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " Frantz Mathias " frantzgm@... frantzgm

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:14 pm (PST)

Hi

I believe that we are re-discovering through Kombucha and other foods(

Tibicos, Kimchee, Kefir, etc) the health-giving/bringing values of fermented

foods... I believe hoever that there is a basic chemical composition that

defines a given food. IN other words certain components have to be present

for a given food to be labelled as say, Tibicos or Kombucha or Ginger Beer.

It is true that some culture may cohabit in a seemingly happy fashion. I

have mixed KT withKimchee and rather like the taste... I would not be

surprised that the liquid that comes out of this mixture would grow some

kind of compound, a SCOBY if you allow me this term... Yet would this SCOBY

be a true Kombucha SCOBY... It may actually ferment tea but would that be

KT? I think that was Ed's point.. I started on KT thought GT Dave's I like

the taste, not much as mine but it seems that GT advertised his brew as

lactic-based... Seems that original KT is acetic-based ... If a friend of

mine grows a SCOBY from my

brews he will get an Acetic-based Kombucha from brewing with it... That

registers as KT not anything else.. on the other hand, if one develops a

SCOBY with Kombucha and Apple Cider MOV, would that be a real Kombucha

SCOBY? I doubt it... That does not mean that these hybrids might not be

healthier than the original... I do not know and few people do.. The

contrary could be also true that the combination is not so health-giving.. I

am not stating it just speculating. I am however stating that WE DO NOT

KNOW.. yet...

[Guest guest]

Bev, you quoted Roussin www.kombucha-research.com

His entire report may be downloaded from his web site.

E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different chemical

analysis of Kombucha samples from all over North America and even some from

Europe. ... "

" ...If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should Read This Book!

Why? Because, It Separates the Facts From the Hype! ... "

Another important report for the safety of Kombucha

http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kt_cornell.htm

Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial activity of the

fermented tea Kombucha

C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

Department of Food Science, Cornell University,

Ithaca, New York 14853

only three things that were common in all kombucha;

acetic acid, gluconic acid, and fructose.

The typical bacteria;

Acetobacter Bacterium; gluconicum, xylinum, xylinoides, Ketogenum.

The typical yeasts;

Saccharomycodes ludwigii, Saccharomycodes apiculatus, Schizosaccharomyces

pombe, Zygosaccharomyes, Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Yes, you can grow a full SCOBY from a bottle.

But what's in the bottle?

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: Growing a full SCOBY from bottled KT.

Posted by: " yoganandaom " OM@... yoganandaom

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:17 pm (PST)

Hi Franz and EveryOne,

It would be nice to have access to a laboratory full time so we could

all test our Kombucha and our experimental batches as well:-))

As you know, Acetic Acid is just one of the components in Kombucha,

but acetic acid would also be found in apple cider or apple cider

vinegar so acetic acid is not enough to make something Kombucha...

As far as I know, no one has proven that GT Kombucha does not contain

all of the factors that make up Kombucha or that it is not a genuine

Kombucha. Is there any proof of that? Therefore, I see no reason to

scare people, every so often, into believing that their Kombucha is

not real, - except to try to sell them another one.

Where is the proof that GT Kombucha is not Kombucha? Where is the

proof, (other than for those of us whose Kombucha was tested by Mike

Roussin in the lab,) that any of us, home or commercial brewer, have

Kombucha? We don't really know do we? It is an act of faith and so far

Kombucha, long before laboratory analysis, was passed from friend to

friend and has been benefiting people for hundreds of years.

Here is what Mike Roussin said in his research of Kombucha:

Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for hepatotoxins,

some anti-fungal, and several anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds.

They

also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

hyaluronidase,

and monoamine oxidase. But what is in a ferment is not universal - except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

Let us continue to make Kombucha according to the traditional methods

and be grateful for the benefits we receive from it.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

[Guest guest]

Galye, sorry I was on the other end of the spectrum.

Many of the commercial KT you can get another growth of mushroom from.

Pronatura is often a challenge as sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. I

have gotten Pronatura to reproduce, yet the taste was never quite the same

(different type of sugar). My thoughts would be that KT bottled and meant

for drinking has a more limited quantity of bacteria and yeasts than in the

typical cup of kombucha starter tea.

Cabbage and salt = sauerkraut, a lacto ferment just add water.

With GT and Len's super strain process you would probably be fostering the

Saccharomyces boulardii yeasts. This yeasts has extremely good reports on

health benefits, centered around resolving diarrhea.

Although ferments may have various yeasts and bacteria present it usually is

a matter of domination. Simply combining different strains is not a simple

addition but war. This is one view of why kombucha (yeasts) help control

Candidasis (yeasts). Many Candidasis groups simple state to avoid all

yeasts.

Good luck with your experiments.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.............................................................

>

Hi Ed...Gosh no! That is not at ALL what I am saying! I never

expected or even wanted to try to replicate GT's. I know the

variables are just too multitudinous to accomplish that! (thus my

comment about the purple walls)

It just had not been discussed on the list since I joined whether a

SCOBY could could be produced from KT (without a mother SCOBY) so I

just set out to see if it could happen. Some of us newbies were jsut

all very curious about that. Sure, I could have used some of my own

brew for the experiment...but thought, what the heck...use GT's and

have three strains to play with if it works instead of the two I have.

Then I read Len Porzio's directions on producing a super SCOBY and

thought, heck, why not try that???

Ummm....just one more thing....you totally lost me on the cabbage and

salt thing???? What is that about? (sorry if it is a simple

reference I'm just not cognizant of)

Warm regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

Galye, sorry I was on the other end of the spectrum.

Many of the commercial KT you can get another growth of mushroom from.

Pronatura is often a challenge as sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. I

have gotten Pronatura to reproduce, yet the taste was never quite the same

(different type of sugar). My thoughts would be that KT bottled and meant

for drinking has a more limited quantity of bacteria and yeasts than in the

typical cup of kombucha starter tea.

Cabbage and salt = sauerkraut, a lacto ferment just add water.

With GT and Len's super strain process you would probably be fostering the

Saccharomyces boulardii yeasts. This yeasts has extremely good reports on

health benefits, centered around resolving diarrhea.

Although ferments may have various yeasts and bacteria present it usually is

a matter of domination. Simply combining different strains is not a simple

addition but war. This is one view of why kombucha (yeasts) help control

Candidasis (yeasts). Many Candidasis groups simple state to avoid all

yeasts.

Good luck with your experiments.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.............................................................

>

Hi Ed...Gosh no! That is not at ALL what I am saying! I never

expected or even wanted to try to replicate GT's. I know the

variables are just too multitudinous to accomplish that! (thus my

comment about the purple walls)

It just had not been discussed on the list since I joined whether a

SCOBY could could be produced from KT (without a mother SCOBY) so I

just set out to see if it could happen. Some of us newbies were jsut

all very curious about that. Sure, I could have used some of my own

brew for the experiment...but thought, what the heck...use GT's and

have three strains to play with if it works instead of the two I have.

Then I read Len Porzio's directions on producing a super SCOBY and

thought, heck, why not try that???

Ummm....just one more thing....you totally lost me on the cabbage and

salt thing???? What is that about? (sorry if it is a simple

reference I'm just not cognizant of)

Warm regards...Gayle

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie,

Several people on this list have started their Kombucha from GT's and

it seems to work quite well for them.

There is a debate, among some people, about using GT Kombucha to start

new Kombucha growing because the ingredients listed on the GT label

are _different_ than the ingredients found in the kind of KT most of

us have and which was tested some time ago by Mike Roussin in a lab.

Mike found that the ingredients in Kombucha were different from

different brewers but he states " what is in a ferment is not universal

- except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid. "

Because, evidently, GT Kombucha lists other ingredients than that on

the label, (I've never seen one of their bottles or tasted their

KT)....some folks question whether or not GT contains Gluconic acid,

fructose and acetic acid, - the universal ingredients found in the

Kombucha he tested according to Roussin's research.

Since, as far as I know, there has been no laboratory analysis of GT

Kombucha and attempts to get GT Dave to post to the list and answer

this issue himself have not been successful, it is impossible to say

whether or not GT Kombucha accords with the standards Mike Roussin

concluded from his research.

Here is what Mike Roussin said about the Kombucha he tested. One of

which was mine:-))

Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for

hepatotoxins, some anti-fungal, and several

anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds. They

also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

hyaluronidase, and monoamine oxidase.

But what is in a ferment is not universal - except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

>

>

> In a message dated 7/28/2007 6:10:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> eddy@... writes:

>

> In other words you will probably produce something that is

different than

> you originally started with.

>

> If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you

just want

> a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of choices.

> Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all

ferments

> are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.www

>

>

>

> Ed,

> I am so sorry I don't follow you. I don't need a GT replica, I just

wanted

> some kombucha to start from home, so I tried the bottle of GT

instead of

> going to someone with a scoby already (had one from someone, but

found out later

> that they used stainless steel utensils to get the kombucha out).

It tastes

> like kombucha so I am happy and satisfied. Where do you get this

cabbage

> salt stuff from when all I wanted was a kombucha starter? And I

did NOT say

> that all ferments are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

> I understood the first question that started all of this was, " can

you start

> a mushroom from a bottle of GT? "

>

> Bonnie

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the

all-new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie,

Several people on this list have started their Kombucha from GT's and

it seems to work quite well for them.

There is a debate, among some people, about using GT Kombucha to start

new Kombucha growing because the ingredients listed on the GT label

are _different_ than the ingredients found in the kind of KT most of

us have and which was tested some time ago by Mike Roussin in a lab.

Mike found that the ingredients in Kombucha were different from

different brewers but he states " what is in a ferment is not universal

- except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid. "

Because, evidently, GT Kombucha lists other ingredients than that on

the label, (I've never seen one of their bottles or tasted their

KT)....some folks question whether or not GT contains Gluconic acid,

fructose and acetic acid, - the universal ingredients found in the

Kombucha he tested according to Roussin's research.

Since, as far as I know, there has been no laboratory analysis of GT

Kombucha and attempts to get GT Dave to post to the list and answer

this issue himself have not been successful, it is impossible to say

whether or not GT Kombucha accords with the standards Mike Roussin

concluded from his research.

Here is what Mike Roussin said about the Kombucha he tested. One of

which was mine:-))

Most ferments contain an analgesic, an anti-arthritic compound, an

anti-spasmodic compound, hematinic and counteractions for

hepatotoxins, some anti-fungal, and several

anti-microbial/anti-bacterial compounds. They

also contain enzyme inhibitors of glucuronidase, heparinase,

hyaluronidase, and monoamine oxidase.

But what is in a ferment is not universal - except

for gluconic acid, fructose, and acetic acid.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

>

>

> In a message dated 7/28/2007 6:10:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> eddy@... writes:

>

> In other words you will probably produce something that is

different than

> you originally started with.

>

> If you want to produce a GT Kombucha than do what he does. If you

just want

> a nice fermented drink and a pretty mushroom you have lots of choices.

> Cabbage and a pinch of salt is a star. I hear you saying that all

ferments

> are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.www

>

>

>

> Ed,

> I am so sorry I don't follow you. I don't need a GT replica, I just

wanted

> some kombucha to start from home, so I tried the bottle of GT

instead of

> going to someone with a scoby already (had one from someone, but

found out later

> that they used stainless steel utensils to get the kombucha out).

It tastes

> like kombucha so I am happy and satisfied. Where do you get this

cabbage

> salt stuff from when all I wanted was a kombucha starter? And I

did NOT say

> that all ferments are the same - or that all ferments are kombucha.

>

> I understood the first question that started all of this was, " can

you start

> a mushroom from a bottle of GT? "

>

> Bonnie

>

>

>

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