Re: first time and fruit flies NOW If you have vinegar eels Throw i

[Guest guest]

I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired

" expertise " on vinegar eels.

I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that

starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a

normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the

result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top

of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel.

Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows

how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom.

My opinions/experience, for what it's worth.

Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away?

[Guest guest]

" Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed

in vinegar bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers

filter and pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the

eels from occurring again. "

I have Bragg's Brand of RAW Unfiltered ACV...I glance at the bottle

before using it and I don't think I have vinegar eels in it...at

least I hope not, harmless or not, ewww.

>

> > Just where do vinegar eels come from???

> > How do they get started?

> > I realize fruit flies make eggs and that can give you maggots,

or whatever

> > they are, but where do eels come from????

>

> , that is an interesting question!

>

> Where do any creatures, life-forms, bacteria, yeasts come from.

> I believe that the Creator has made Everything according to their

kind

> in the beginning .... including

>

> vinegar eels aka vinegar worms aka turbatrix aceti aka Anguillula

aceti ;-0

>

> They are free living nematodes that feed on microbial culture like

Mother

> of vinegar, and in the same way on scoby, I presume. They live

particularly

> in unfiltered vinegar.

> Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed

in vinegar

> bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers filter and

> pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the eels from

occurring

> again.

>

> On the bright side, vinegar eels are often specially bred as food

for fish.

>

> So, to sum it up, vinegar eels live in an acidic environment like

KT

> brew because they feed on the specific food found especially there.

>

> If you look at creatures like this nematode you would see the

beauty

> and complicated structure it has. The DNA information it takes to

> make it function is mind-boggling!!

>

> So, don't be afraid of the humble vinegar eel!

>

> in awe of God's creation,

>

> Margret:-)

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels

>

> --

> +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

> <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

> http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

> +----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

>

> If you're offended, there is only one answer:

> forgive and pray for the offender. Jesus did!

>

[Guest guest]

I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as from

the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on record

on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels. Would

they pass on a starter?

I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion.

And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If

you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you

don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book

will not give you the answers.

Ed Kasper LAc

www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/>

>

> > Just where do vinegar eels come from???

> > How do they get started?

> > I realize fruit flies make eggs and that can give you maggots, or

whatever

> > they are, but where do eels come from????

>

> , that is an interesting question!

>

> Where do any creatures, life-forms, bacteria, yeasts come from.

> I believe that the Creator has made Everything according to their kind

> in the beginning .... including

>

> vinegar eels aka vinegar worms aka turbatrix aceti aka Anguillula

aceti ;-0

>

> They are free living nematodes that feed on microbial culture like

Mother

> of vinegar, and in the same way on scoby, I presume. They live

particularly

> in unfiltered vinegar.

> Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed in

vinegar

> bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers filter and

> pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the eels from

occurring

> again.

>

> On the bright side, vinegar eels are often specially bred as food for

fish.

>

> So, to sum it up, vinegar eels live in an acidic environment like KT

> brew because they feed on the specific food found especially there.

>

> If you look at creatures like this nematode you would see the beauty

> and complicated structure it has. The DNA information it takes to

> make it function is mind-boggling!!

>

> So, don't be afraid of the humble vinegar eel!

>

> in awe of God's creation,

>

> Margret:-)

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels

>

> --

> +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

> <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

> http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

> +----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

>

> If you're offended, there is only one answer:

> forgive and pray for the offender. Jesus did!

>

[Guest guest]

Ed,

Regardless (and in spite) of the sniping between you and , I

value both of your opinions. You provide the more scientific data, she

reminds us that kombucha has been around for ages, long before science

could show us what is in it.

Please do not take offense. Just keep on posting your opinion, it's as

good and valued as hers. And and Bev, I love and respect your

opinions, too. You all (and I include the other veterans here) have

provided me with invaluable info on brewing my kt.

As for vinegar eels, I would throw out the 'infected' jar just because

of the eeeeuuuwww factor. Unless someone can assure me that vinegar

eels are beneficial organisms that will help me be healthy, I would

prefer to dispose of them. Thank goddess I don't have them!

a

>

>

> I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as from

> the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on record

> on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels. Would

> they pass on a starter?

>

> I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion.

>

> And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If

> you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you

> don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book

> will not give you the answers.

>

>

>

> Ed Kasper LAc

>

> www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ed,

I don't know you, but perhaps it is not what you are saying, but it is that

manner in which you write that sticks in people's craw.

Just in reading your emails in the last few weeks, your emails tend to come

across as the absolute definitive authority on all things kombucha. I'm

sure you are an expert, but perhaps you would be better received if you

offered your opinion and expertise in a more harmonious manner.

We are all trying to drink KT and enjoy it's wonderful benefits. It's a

journey for all of us. Let's be kind to one another.

Just my humble opinion.

- in Ohio

[Guest guest]

Vinegar eels go for the bacteria and the cellulose mushroom.

They have a life span of 10 months, but the mushroom will be gone long

before that.

If you do not have a spare, or if your spare is also infested (check by

shinning a narrow blight beam, eels are drawn to the light, and can be seen

swimming about) or can not obtain a new healthy mushroom, then here is a

simple procedure that may help re-establish your ferment;

Strain through a paper filter (coffee filter) or fine weave. most of the

eels will be trapped in the coffee filter.

Take the filtered kombucha starter tea and heat to 40C (103F) for about 20

minutes. Filter again and use this as a starter for a new batch. Follow your

typical kombucha mushroom tea recipe. You only need about 240 - 500 cc (1-2

cups) of filtered " pasteurized " tea to use as a starter for the next batch.

The bacteria will be low so add 2 ounces of alcohol (vodka), use a wide

container, and vigorously whip the ferment to increase the oxygen level.

Ferment 80° to 85° Fahrenheit. (26-29C) for 9 days. Filter and repeat entire

process. We have had mixed results with this method. We also found that it

was common to have 2-3 really good batches then whamo, another infestation.

We have suggested this to others who call our toll free help line, and some

have reported good success. Some have sent us samples. We started looking

into this about 1-2 years ago when the topic came up on this list.

FDA. Sec. 525.825 Vinegar, Definitions - Adulteration with Vinegar Eels

(CPG 7109.22)

<http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg525-825.html>

II. ADULTERATION WITH VINEGAR EELS Turbatrix aceti POLICY:

The finding of vinegar eels in finished product would be considered

objectionable and would render the finished product adulterated within the

meaning of 402(a)(3).

Article adulterated (when introduced into and while in interstate commerce)

(while held for sale after introduction into interstate commerce), within

the meaning of 21 U.S.C. 342(a)(3), in that it consists in part of a filthy

substance by reason of the presence therein of vinegar eels.

Ed Kasper LAc

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...............original message .......

Re: first time and fruit flies NOW If you have vinegar eels Throw i

Posted by: " Sax Maam " saxmaam@... novice64

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:13 pm (PST)

I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired

" expertise " on vinegar eels.

I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that

starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a

normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the

result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top

of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel.

Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows

how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom.

My opinions/experience, for what it's worth.

Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away?

[Guest guest]

a, Louis Pasteur showed that the " little eels " first seen in vinegar

by Leeuwenhoek, a genus of threadworm called Anguillula, were

detrimental to the vinegar fermentation process because they interfered

with Mycoderma aceti, the vinegar-forming organism. Acetobacter xylinum,

the main bacteria identified in kombucha, and responsible for producing

acetic acid and gluconic acid as well as the kombucha mushroom itself is

part of that group. With an infestation your kombucha will have less

acetic acid, less gluconic acid, more alcohol and less and less mushroom

as the SCOBY quickly disintegrates.

" ...The difference between Kombucha and vinegar? Simple - gluconic acid,

fructose and the acid esters. In trying to " define " Kombucha, we know

that all strains have both gluconic acid and acetic acid and fructose.

We know that it requires at least two microorganisms, a yeast and a

bacteria. Acetobacter xylinum is in all of the ferments we've looked

at... " ( Roussin's " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments' "

www.kombucha-research.com <http://www.kombucha-research.com> )

These eels may be present in sour foods as well as lacto-ferments,

fermented veggies. In vinegar trade journals there is fear of the

vinegar FLY because it may bring in the vinegar EEL. I have not read any

studies from whence vinegar eels come from.

In the United States the FDA prohibits identifying simple " acetic acid "

as " vinegar " and makes a clear legal definition. For our purposes here

it is the same. The FDA will accept vinegar eels in the production of

vinegar but not in the finished product, and would be a violation of the

FDA regulations.

The " pasteurization " of an infested ferment usually destroys them and it

may be possible to save your SCOBY.

Ed Kasper LAc

www.HappyHerblaits.com <http://www.HappyHerblaits.com>

> >

> >

> > I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as

from

> > the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on

record

> > on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels.

Would

> > they pass on a starter?

> >

> > I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion.

> >

> > And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If

> > you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you

> > don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book

> > will not give you the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> > Ed Kasper LAc

> >

> > www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need Mail bonding?

> Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

>

>

[Guest guest]

HippeeSandee, just wondering if you ever got a new SCOBY?

Ed Kasper LAc

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.............original message ......................

Re: first time and fruit flies NOW If you have vinegar eels Throw i

Posted by: " HippeeSandee " hippeesandee@... hippeesandee

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:21 pm (PST)

Hard for me to drink squiggly things also, I'd start over

HippeeSandee

Sax Maam <saxmaam@...> wrote:

I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired

" expertise " on vinegar eels.

I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that

starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a

normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the

result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top

of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel.

Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows

how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom.

My opinions/experience, for what it's worth.

Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away?

~~PEACE~~

HippeeSandee

HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm

[Guest guest]

sorry, must have gottonthe emails mixed up

Ed kasper LAc

www.HappyHerbalist.com

> I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired

> " expertise " on vinegar eels.

>

> I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree

that

> starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a

> normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the

> result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on

top

> of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel.

> Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who

knows

> how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new

mushroom.

>

> My opinions/experience, for what it's worth.

>

> Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give

away?

>

>

>

> ~~PEACE~~

> HippeeSandee

> HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ~~PEACE~~

> HippeeSandee

> HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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