Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired " expertise " on vinegar eels. I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel. Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom. My opinions/experience, for what it's worth. Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 " Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed in vinegar bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers filter and pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the eels from occurring again. " I have Bragg's Brand of RAW Unfiltered ACV...I glance at the bottle before using it and I don't think I have vinegar eels in it...at least I hope not, harmless or not, ewww. > > > Just where do vinegar eels come from??? > > How do they get started? > > I realize fruit flies make eggs and that can give you maggots, or whatever > > they are, but where do eels come from???? > > , that is an interesting question! > > Where do any creatures, life-forms, bacteria, yeasts come from. > I believe that the Creator has made Everything according to their kind > in the beginning .... including > > vinegar eels aka vinegar worms aka turbatrix aceti aka Anguillula aceti ;-0 > > They are free living nematodes that feed on microbial culture like Mother > of vinegar, and in the same way on scoby, I presume. They live particularly > in unfiltered vinegar. > Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed in vinegar > bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers filter and > pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the eels from occurring > again. > > On the bright side, vinegar eels are often specially bred as food for fish. > > So, to sum it up, vinegar eels live in an acidic environment like KT > brew because they feed on the specific food found especially there. > > If you look at creatures like this nematode you would see the beauty > and complicated structure it has. The DNA information it takes to > make it function is mind-boggling!! > > So, don't be afraid of the humble vinegar eel! > > in awe of God's creation, > > Margret:-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels > > -- > +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+ > <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<>< > http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com > +----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+ > > If you're offended, there is only one answer: > forgive and pray for the offender. Jesus did! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as from the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on record on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels. Would they pass on a starter? I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion. And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book will not give you the answers. Ed Kasper LAc www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/> > > > Just where do vinegar eels come from??? > > How do they get started? > > I realize fruit flies make eggs and that can give you maggots, or whatever > > they are, but where do eels come from???? > > , that is an interesting question! > > Where do any creatures, life-forms, bacteria, yeasts come from. > I believe that the Creator has made Everything according to their kind > in the beginning .... including > > vinegar eels aka vinegar worms aka turbatrix aceti aka Anguillula aceti ;-0 > > They are free living nematodes that feed on microbial culture like Mother > of vinegar, and in the same way on scoby, I presume. They live particularly > in unfiltered vinegar. > Although they are harmless and non-parasitic they are not allowed in vinegar > bottled for consumer in the US. Therefore manufacturers filter and > pasteurise their product before bottling to prevent the eels from occurring > again. > > On the bright side, vinegar eels are often specially bred as food for fish. > > So, to sum it up, vinegar eels live in an acidic environment like KT > brew because they feed on the specific food found especially there. > > If you look at creatures like this nematode you would see the beauty > and complicated structure it has. The DNA information it takes to > make it function is mind-boggling!! > > So, don't be afraid of the humble vinegar eel! > > in awe of God's creation, > > Margret:-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels > > -- > +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+ > <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<>< > http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com > +----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+ > > If you're offended, there is only one answer: > forgive and pray for the offender. Jesus did! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Ed, Regardless (and in spite) of the sniping between you and , I value both of your opinions. You provide the more scientific data, she reminds us that kombucha has been around for ages, long before science could show us what is in it. Please do not take offense. Just keep on posting your opinion, it's as good and valued as hers. And and Bev, I love and respect your opinions, too. You all (and I include the other veterans here) have provided me with invaluable info on brewing my kt. As for vinegar eels, I would throw out the 'infected' jar just because of the eeeeuuuwww factor. Unless someone can assure me that vinegar eels are beneficial organisms that will help me be healthy, I would prefer to dispose of them. Thank goddess I don't have them! a > > > I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as from > the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on record > on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels. Would > they pass on a starter? > > I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion. > > And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If > you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you > don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book > will not give you the answers. > > > > Ed Kasper LAc > > www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Dear Ed, I don't know you, but perhaps it is not what you are saying, but it is that manner in which you write that sticks in people's craw. Just in reading your emails in the last few weeks, your emails tend to come across as the absolute definitive authority on all things kombucha. I'm sure you are an expert, but perhaps you would be better received if you offered your opinion and expertise in a more harmonious manner. We are all trying to drink KT and enjoy it's wonderful benefits. It's a journey for all of us. Let's be kind to one another. Just my humble opinion. - in Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Vinegar eels go for the bacteria and the cellulose mushroom. They have a life span of 10 months, but the mushroom will be gone long before that. If you do not have a spare, or if your spare is also infested (check by shinning a narrow blight beam, eels are drawn to the light, and can be seen swimming about) or can not obtain a new healthy mushroom, then here is a simple procedure that may help re-establish your ferment; Strain through a paper filter (coffee filter) or fine weave. most of the eels will be trapped in the coffee filter. Take the filtered kombucha starter tea and heat to 40C (103F) for about 20 minutes. Filter again and use this as a starter for a new batch. Follow your typical kombucha mushroom tea recipe. You only need about 240 - 500 cc (1-2 cups) of filtered " pasteurized " tea to use as a starter for the next batch. The bacteria will be low so add 2 ounces of alcohol (vodka), use a wide container, and vigorously whip the ferment to increase the oxygen level. Ferment 80° to 85° Fahrenheit. (26-29C) for 9 days. Filter and repeat entire process. We have had mixed results with this method. We also found that it was common to have 2-3 really good batches then whamo, another infestation. We have suggested this to others who call our toll free help line, and some have reported good success. Some have sent us samples. We started looking into this about 1-2 years ago when the topic came up on this list. FDA. Sec. 525.825 Vinegar, Definitions - Adulteration with Vinegar Eels (CPG 7109.22) <http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg525-825.html> II. ADULTERATION WITH VINEGAR EELS Turbatrix aceti POLICY: The finding of vinegar eels in finished product would be considered objectionable and would render the finished product adulterated within the meaning of 402(a)(3). Article adulterated (when introduced into and while in interstate commerce) (while held for sale after introduction into interstate commerce), within the meaning of 21 U.S.C. 342(a)(3), in that it consists in part of a filthy substance by reason of the presence therein of vinegar eels. Ed Kasper LAc www.HappyHerbalist.com ...............original message ....... Re: first time and fruit flies NOW If you have vinegar eels Throw i Posted by: " Sax Maam " saxmaam@... novice64 Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:13 pm (PST) I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired " expertise " on vinegar eels. I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel. Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom. My opinions/experience, for what it's worth. Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 a, Louis Pasteur showed that the " little eels " first seen in vinegar by Leeuwenhoek, a genus of threadworm called Anguillula, were detrimental to the vinegar fermentation process because they interfered with Mycoderma aceti, the vinegar-forming organism. Acetobacter xylinum, the main bacteria identified in kombucha, and responsible for producing acetic acid and gluconic acid as well as the kombucha mushroom itself is part of that group. With an infestation your kombucha will have less acetic acid, less gluconic acid, more alcohol and less and less mushroom as the SCOBY quickly disintegrates. " ...The difference between Kombucha and vinegar? Simple - gluconic acid, fructose and the acid esters. In trying to " define " Kombucha, we know that all strains have both gluconic acid and acetic acid and fructose. We know that it requires at least two microorganisms, a yeast and a bacteria. Acetobacter xylinum is in all of the ferments we've looked at... " ( Roussin's " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments' " www.kombucha-research.com <http://www.kombucha-research.com> ) These eels may be present in sour foods as well as lacto-ferments, fermented veggies. In vinegar trade journals there is fear of the vinegar FLY because it may bring in the vinegar EEL. I have not read any studies from whence vinegar eels come from. In the United States the FDA prohibits identifying simple " acetic acid " as " vinegar " and makes a clear legal definition. For our purposes here it is the same. The FDA will accept vinegar eels in the production of vinegar but not in the finished product, and would be a violation of the FDA regulations. The " pasteurization " of an infested ferment usually destroys them and it may be possible to save your SCOBY. Ed Kasper LAc www.HappyHerblaits.com <http://www.HappyHerblaits.com> > > > > > > I would like to hear from the moderators of this group as well as from > > the professionals here that sell kombucha and have them state on record > > on what would they do if they had an infestation of vinegar eels. Would > > they pass on a starter? > > > > I have been repeatedly criticized for my opinion. > > > > And I am surprised that these " professionals " have been silent. If > > you have experienced an infestation you have experience, if you > > don't have experience - ignorance is no excuse. Reading from a book > > will not give you the answers. > > > > > > > > Ed Kasper LAc > > > > www.HappyHerbalist.com <http://www.happyherbalist.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 HippeeSandee, just wondering if you ever got a new SCOBY? Ed Kasper LAc www.HappyHerbalist.com .............original message ...................... Re: first time and fruit flies NOW If you have vinegar eels Throw i Posted by: " HippeeSandee " hippeesandee@... hippeesandee Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:21 pm (PST) Hard for me to drink squiggly things also, I'd start over HippeeSandee Sax Maam <saxmaam@...> wrote: I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired " expertise " on vinegar eels. I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel. Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom. My opinions/experience, for what it's worth. Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away? ~~PEACE~~ HippeeSandee HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 sorry, must have gottonthe emails mixed up Ed kasper LAc www.HappyHerbalist.com > I thought I'd weigh in with my unwanted and recently acquired > " expertise " on vinegar eels. > > I've had a couple of vinegar eel infestations and I have to agree that > starting over is the thing to do. The vinegar eels seem to prevent a > normal scoby from developing and as the infestation progresses the > result can be disgusting ... first a shimmery layer of wigglies on top > of the brew, and later they start climbing the sides of the vessel. > Results seem better when using the continuous brew method, but who knows > how long that could continue, and of course you'd get no new mushroom. > > My opinions/experience, for what it's worth. > > Now ... Does anyone in Albuquerque have a healthy mushroom to give away? > > > > ~~PEACE~~ > HippeeSandee > HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm > > > > > > > ~~PEACE~~ > HippeeSandee > HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm > > > > --------------------------------- > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Beta. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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