Re: Disease and avoidability

August 5, 2003

Just a thought re: the life span enjoyed today - the 'pestilences

and etc' from which mankind suffered came mainly from transmission of

infection due to extremely low hygiene standards, and it is noteworthy that

today we are not susceptible to them in the numbers of yore.

However, to my mind, the absolute pervasiveness of the " Microwave Immersion,

our virtual immersion in pesticides, Herbicides, Artificial additives,

Antibiotics, Hormonal overload, Plastic leaching etc etc etc... " , is only

exacerbated by the mental attitude that " Its all good " , and " You cannot

point the finger and say to someone who has chosen NOT to study life

dynamics, proper eating attitudinal and living habits, and tell them 'Hey

you are wrong!' "

So, I have to lean towards the " Its my responsibility, leave me alone "

attitude, and say " You ARE WRONG - and I have the right to not have to pick

up the medical tab for YOUR choices..! "

Many an overweight diabetic is still eating sugars and sweet drinks and

smoking ..... and I have to pay extra health insurance to support

them......?????

Re: Ken/Jill/disease unavoidable?

>I disagree. We live much longer healthier lives today than we did

>centuries ago, or even longer. We were much more susceptible to

>infection, to pestilence, to the stress of trying to find food and

>fighting the elements. Life long ago was not a paradise. Yes there

>are toxins today and I agree many people have junky diets, and

>certainly modern industry produces lots of stuff tha tis unhealthy--

>but we have the choice to avoid it, to eat well, to eat an incredible

>variety of organic healthyf oods, buy healthy building materials,

>etc. We are really very lucky. We have MUCH longer lifespans than in

>previous eras.

>

>> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

>gonna

>> live

>> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built, no

>matter

>> how

>> > much

>> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

>> > >

>> > > Yes let's...

>> > >

>> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from what I

>> wrote

>> > below??

>> > >

>> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

>> any " disease " and

>> > > >> there is no one cure.

>> > >

>> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

>> > > >

>> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine for

>> > > >

>> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

>basically,

>> oxygen

>> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

>> > > >

>> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of ALL

>> disease,

>> > > > although there are different things that can cause this

>lack

>> of

>> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from parents

>who

>> ate a

>> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack of

>> exercise,

>> > > > etc, combination of these).

>> > > >

>> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen deprivation,

>> will

>> > cure

>> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it is

>quite

>> that

>> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

>things

>> that

>> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things that

>> promoted a

>> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like eating

>> properly,

>> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine, etc.,

>but

>> > ozone

>> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

>LIVES,

>> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who is

>> > sick 'caused'

>> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a GENERAL

>detox

>> of

>> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

>> oxygenation

>> > at

>> > > > the cellular level.

>> >

August 5, 2003

A little more compassion on this list would be in order. Not to get

angry at people who can't make changes that may or may not get them

well (we just don't know. There is more than one cause of disease in

an individual, it is a very complex thing).. Not to label them or to

cruelly suggest making a song out of their complaints. Not to say, I

should pay health insurance for THAT person? Who knows what else

they've suffered? Maybe they were beaten mericilessly as a kid, and

turned to food for sustenance. Who knows? And NOBODY but nobody

knows what another's path is or lessons are. Try to be kind, not

smug, imho.

> >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

> >gonna

> >> live

> >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built, no

> >matter

> >> how

> >> > much

> >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

> >> > >

> >> > > Yes let's...

> >> > >

> >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

what I

> >> wrote

> >> > below??

> >> > >

> >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

> >> any " disease " and

> >> > > >> there is no one cure.

> >> > >

> >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine

for

> >> > > >

> >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

> >basically,

> >> oxygen

> >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of ALL

> >> disease,

> >> > > > although there are different things that can cause this

> >lack

> >> of

> >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from parents

> >who

> >> ate a

> >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack of

> >> exercise,

> >> > > > etc, combination of these).

> >> > > >

> >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

deprivation,

> >> will

> >> > cure

> >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it is

> >quite

> >> that

> >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

> >things

> >> that

> >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things that

> >> promoted a

> >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like eating

> >> properly,

> >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

etc.,

> >but

> >> > ozone

> >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

> >LIVES,

> >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who is

> >> > sick 'caused'

> >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a GENERAL

> >detox

> >> of

> >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

> >> oxygenation

> >> > at

> >> > > > the cellular level.

> >> >

August 5, 2003

Sorry, Jill, but I am unable to live a life of excuse for/within myself, and

I find it very difficult when people make an existence out of " excusitis " ,

and will not take responsibility for the situation that they [a]develop,

persist in maintaining when they see the detrimental effects upon

themselves, and their surroundings, citing many and varied reasons as the

excuse for continuing this mode of behaviour.

Prime example - pregnant women continuing with drugs and smoking during

pregnancy, or parents who smoke all over their kids, because " It is their

right, and ' they cannot give it up' " .

Bit harsh - perhaps - but there comes a time when each individual MUST

assume full responsibility for their actions and the consequences, and take

the repercussions - without blaming a past event, which they allowed to

" rule " their life.

As my kids have a habit of telling me, the aim is to " Get over it - and get

on with it... "

I suffer from Bronchitis - resulting from cigarette smoke inhalation [ I

never puffed on a weedstick myself ] - and I cannot see why others MUST blow

their waste into the air for me to breathe .... but..... they CANNOT give it

up, because .............

Sorry, but I am a firm believer in the fact that we should be 'intolerant of

tolerance', and lay the rod of responsibility firmly at each member of the

Human Race's feet, and encourage them to take it up, and develop a life of

value for themselves!

As I have posted on the notice board of my classes:

" The very best thing you can do for the whole world is to make the most of

yourself " ......

and, as Milton of Toledo Ohio wrote:

" What I want for myself, I want for everybody else " .

So that about sums up why I do not allow myself tolerate the disease of

" excusitis " - even in myself.

Regards

Re: Disease and avoidability

>A little more compassion on this list would be in order. Not to get

>angry at people who can't make changes that may or may not get them

>well (we just don't know. There is more than one cause of disease in

>an individual, it is a very complex thing).. Not to label them or to

>cruelly suggest making a song out of their complaints. Not to say, I

>should pay health insurance for THAT person? Who knows what else

>they've suffered? Maybe they were beaten mericilessly as a kid, and

>turned to food for sustenance. Who knows? And NOBODY but nobody

>knows what another's path is or lessons are. Try to be kind, not

>smug, imho.

>

>> >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

>> >gonna

>> >> live

>> >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built, no

>> >matter

>> >> how

>> >> > much

>> >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

>> >> > >

>> >> > > Yes let's...

>> >> > >

>> >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

>what I

>> >> wrote

>> >> > below??

>> >> > >

>> >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

>> >> any " disease " and

>> >> > > >> there is no one cure.

>> >> > >

>> >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

>> >> > > >

>> >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine

>for

>> >> > > >

>> >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

>> >basically,

>> >> oxygen

>> >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

>> >> > > >

>> >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of ALL

>> >> disease,

>> >> > > > although there are different things that can cause this

>> >lack

>> >> of

>> >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from parents

>> >who

>> >> ate a

>> >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack of

>> >> exercise,

>> >> > > > etc, combination of these).

>> >> > > >

>> >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

>deprivation,

>> >> will

>> >> > cure

>> >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it is

>> >quite

>> >> that

>> >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

>> >things

>> >> that

>> >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things that

>> >> promoted a

>> >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like eating

>> >> properly,

>> >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

>etc.,

>> >but

>> >> > ozone

>> >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

>> >LIVES,

>> >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who is

>> >> > sick 'caused'

>> >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a GENERAL

>> >detox

>> >> of

>> >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

>> >> oxygenation

>> >> > at

>> >> > > > the cellular level.

>> >> >

August 5, 2003

But you appear to be the most smug of anyone, that is to me who has been

following your posts. You apparently have some sickness and are very angry

about it. the negativity comes through on your posts. I am sorry but that is

the way you are coming across.

Flynn

1447 Peachtree St. NE

Suite 414

Atlanta, Ga. 30309

404-881-1700

Tao400@...

Re: Disease and avoidability

> A little more compassion on this list would be in order. Not to get

> angry at people who can't make changes that may or may not get them

> well (we just don't know. There is more than one cause of disease in

> an individual, it is a very complex thing).. Not to label them or to

> cruelly suggest making a song out of their complaints. Not to say, I

> should pay health insurance for THAT person? Who knows what else

> they've suffered? Maybe they were beaten mericilessly as a kid, and

> turned to food for sustenance. Who knows? And NOBODY but nobody

> knows what another's path is or lessons are. Try to be kind, not

> smug, imho.

>

> > >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

> > >gonna

> > >> live

> > >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built, no

> > >matter

> > >> how

> > >> > much

> > >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Yes let's...

> > >> > >

> > >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

> what I

> > >> wrote

> > >> > below??

> > >> > >

> > >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

> > >> any " disease " and

> > >> > > >> there is no one cure.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine

> for

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

> > >basically,

> > >> oxygen

> > >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of ALL

> > >> disease,

> > >> > > > although there are different things that can cause this

> > >lack

> > >> of

> > >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from parents

> > >who

> > >> ate a

> > >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack of

> > >> exercise,

> > >> > > > etc, combination of these).

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

> deprivation,

> > >> will

> > >> > cure

> > >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it is

> > >quite

> > >> that

> > >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

> > >things

> > >> that

> > >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things that

> > >> promoted a

> > >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like eating

> > >> properly,

> > >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

> etc.,

> > >but

> > >> > ozone

> > >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

> > >LIVES,

> > >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who is

> > >> > sick 'caused'

> > >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a GENERAL

> > >detox

> > >> of

> > >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

> > >> oxygenation

> > >> > at

> > >> > > > the cellular level.

> > >> >

August 5, 2003

, it is fair to set your own standards for yourself

(compassionately) but by judging others you assume you understand the

whole story, the big picture, why this problem has come into their

lives. What will you make of someone like Hawking? Could he

have prevented his physical deterioriation? Yet he has a great

spirit. Do you want your insurance $ going to him?

There is a level of resentment you're showing towards others, even

thinking about their health problems and feeling victimized by their

attitudes, as comes through in your post. What for? You would have

to walk in that person's shoes and understand all the pressures on

their life, genetically, emotionally, spiritually, culturally, to be

able to " judge " their behavior. You just don't and nobody has that

kind of wisdom. Let others make their own decisions. They might

turn out correct in the end for all you know.

> >> >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

> >> >gonna

> >> >> live

> >> >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built,

no

> >> >matter

> >> >> how

> >> >> > much

> >> >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > > Yes let's...

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

> >what I

> >> >> wrote

> >> >> > below??

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

> >> >> any " disease " and

> >> >> > > >> there is no one cure.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

> >> >> > > >

> >> >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine

> >for

> >> >> > > >

> >> >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

> >> >basically,

> >> >> oxygen

> >> >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

> >> >> > > >

> >> >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of

ALL

> >> >> disease,

> >> >> > > > although there are different things that can cause

this

> >> >lack

> >> >> of

> >> >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from

parents

> >> >who

> >> >> ate a

> >> >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack

of

> >> >> exercise,

> >> >> > > > etc, combination of these).

> >> >> > > >

> >> >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

> >deprivation,

> >> >> will

> >> >> > cure

> >> >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it

is

> >> >quite

> >> >> that

> >> >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

> >> >things

> >> >> that

> >> >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things

that

> >> >> promoted a

> >> >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like

eating

> >> >> properly,

> >> >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

> >etc.,

> >> >but

> >> >> > ozone

> >> >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

> >> >LIVES,

> >> >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who

is

> >> >> > sick 'caused'

> >> >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a

GENERAL

> >> >detox

> >> >> of

> >> >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

> >> >> oxygenation

> >> >> > at

> >> >> > > > the cellular level.

> >> >> >

August 5, 2003

It is very hard to read tone in posts and to know how someone feels.

I do know that people often think of me (in the cyber world on these

lists) as a know it all or " smug " as you say. So I'll just live with

that label. As for very angry, no, I am simply pissed off when other

people judge those who are chronically ill. I have great sympathy for

them having been through it myself. I've seen families, healthy

families, destroyed by lyme. And partly through ineffective doctors

who don't even know what they're dealing with, misdiagnose, and then

put the poor people on the wrong drugs, such as steroids for " MS "

when it's really lyme. One woman on lymenet realized her whole

fmaily has it inclding her father who has " suffered " with " MS " for 27

years and amlost died last winter. She convinced the doctors to test

him, he came up highly positive for lyme, and now he is on

antibiotics and already showing improvement after 3 decades. I have

only sympathy and empathy for these stories. I in no way feel it is

kind, reasonable, or correct to judge others attempts to get well or

their suffering when they can't. *That* is what pisses me off. And

I find that people do it in the cyberworld all the time. It's a riot,

NOT.

So, I will defend those poor people who can't defend themselves.

> > > >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We

ain't

> > > >gonna

> > > >> live

> > > >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built,

no

> > > >matter

> > > >> how

> > > >> > much

> > > >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Yes let's...

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

> > what I

> > > >> wrote

> > > >> > below??

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

> > > >> any " disease " and

> > > >> > > >> there is no one cure.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in

medicine

> > for

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

> > > >basically,

> > > >> oxygen

> > > >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of

ALL

> > > >> disease,

> > > >> > > > although there are different things that can cause

this

> > > >lack

> > > >> of

> > > >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from

parents

> > > >who

> > > >> ate a

> > > >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack

of

> > > >> exercise,

> > > >> > > > etc, combination of these).

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

> > deprivation,

> > > >> will

> > > >> > cure

> > > >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that

it is

> > > >quite

> > > >> that

> > > >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing

the

> > > >things

> > > >> that

> > > >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things

that

> > > >> promoted a

> > > >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like

eating

> > > >> properly,

> > > >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

> > etc.,

> > > >but

> > > >> > ozone

> > > >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and

SAVE

> > > >LIVES,

> > > >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who

is

> > > >> > sick 'caused'

> > > >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a

GENERAL

> > > >detox

> > > >> of

> > > >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in

tissue

> > > >> oxygenation

> > > >> > at

> > > >> > > > the cellular level.

> > > >> >

August 5, 2003

jeffrey!

i have more or less gone thru the same disease as jill. and i know, how it

feels, when people told me, i just need to do sports to get rid of my pain.

i could have jumped into their faces, that´s how angry it made me. even my

husband had NO compassion but only arrogance.

especially lyme disease is a disease that you cannot see in the face. people

look relatively healthy, and that´s why they´re being called wimps or

hypochondriacs so often. that generates anger. YES!

i can so well relate to jill´s words.

people suffering from a chronic disease quite often must hear things like:

well, you must be doing something wrong, otherwise you wouldn´t be so sick.

in other words: you are wrong and a looser. and that simply isn´t fair.

we all have our tasks here, and all come a long way.

just don´t judge. everybody has the right to BE

marlene

Re: Disease and avoidability

>

> > A little more compassion on this list would be in order. Not to get

> > angry at people who can't make changes that may or may not get them

> > well (we just don't know. There is more than one cause of disease in

> > an individual, it is a very complex thing).. Not to label them or to

> > cruelly suggest making a song out of their complaints. Not to say, I

> > should pay health insurance for THAT person? Who knows what else

> > they've suffered? Maybe they were beaten mericilessly as a kid, and

> > turned to food for sustenance. Who knows? And NOBODY but nobody

> > knows what another's path is or lessons are. Try to be kind, not

> > smug, imho.

> >

> > > >> > > > Cell apoptosis, i.e. death, is programmed. We ain't

> > > >gonna

> > > >> live

> > > >> > > > forever. That's not the way our bodies are built, no

> > > >matter

> > > >> how

> > > >> > much

> > > >> > > > 02. Let's be realistic.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Yes let's...

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > How precisely did you get 'we can live forever' from

> > what I

> > > >> wrote

> > > >> > below??

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > >> Just like I have said, there is no one cause of

> > > >> any " disease " and

> > > >> > > >> there is no one cure.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > Actually, I would disagree with this...

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Otto Warburg got the Nobel Prize in 1931 in medicine

> > for

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > discovering the cause of ALL cancer, which was,

> > > >basically,

> > > >> oxygen

> > > >> > > > deprivation at the cellular level.

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > I submit to you that this is the physical cause of ALL

> > > >> disease,

> > > >> > > > although there are different things that can cause this

> > > >lack

> > > >> of

> > > >> > > > oxygen (poor diet, weak genetic structure (from parents

> > > >who

> > > >> ate a

> > > >> > > > poor diet, etc), exposure to chemical toxins, lack of

> > > >> exercise,

> > > >> > > > etc, combination of these).

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > So, anything that will eliminate this oxygen

> > deprivation,

> > > >> will

> > > >> > cure

> > > >> > > > any disease. Of course, I am not suggesting that it is

> > > >quite

> > > >> that

> > > >> > > > simple in reality - one would have to STOP doing the

> > > >things

> > > >> that

> > > >> > > > caused the lack of oxygen, and start doing things that

> > > >> promoted a

> > > >> > > > high oxygen presence at the cellular level, like eating

> > > >> properly,

> > > >> > > > getting some quality exercise, fresh air, sunshine,

> > etc.,

> > > >but

> > > >> > ozone

> > > >> > > > can definitely remedy the IMMEDIATE problem and SAVE

> > > >LIVES,

> > > >> > > > REGARDLESS of what specific actions by the one who is

> > > >> > sick 'caused'

> > > >> > > > the disease in the first place, by promoting a GENERAL

> > > >detox

> > > >> of

> > > >> > > > the body, and promoting a GENERAL increase in tissue

> > > >> oxygenation

> > > >> > at

> > > >> > > > the cellular level.

> > > >> >

August 5, 2003

i agree.

judging is never the right way.

and for each step, there is a right moment. if somebody is not ready, she/he

might be ready a day/month/year later... we´re all marching at our speed.

and healers are not more than tools of god. we must learn to be humble

again.

and not everybody tells the whole story. traumatic experience are sometimes

buried deeply.

even excuses can be a way of protection at certain times. yes, be gentle.