Re: Dr.B. reply to Dick on ozone passing into blood w/sauna

[Guest guest]

Dear Dick & List:

I'm sorry---I can't accept someones feelings of how ozone cupping in the

armpits " feels " as definitive proof at all! I like a better scientific

explanation in controlled environment that is repeatable.

In reference to whether or not ozone itself makes it into the blood

stream, let me quote Dr.Bocci's book " Oxygen-Ozone Therapy, A Crucial

Evaluation " Vellio Bocci, M.D., Medical Director & Respiratory &

Cardiopulmonary/Vascular specialist

Professor of General Physiology, Sienna University, Sienna, Italy

Kluwer Academic Publishing, ©2002

Borr <mailto:Borr>

Page 200-201

#3. " A crucial question is when the skin is exposed to ozone, does this

gas penetrate all the cell layers to reach the dermis and enter the

capillaries? Advertising would have one believe that ozone reaches the

blood circulation and has a cleansing effect, with the elimination of

viruses and toxins. Yet this claim is not correct and has only

commercial purposes. O2 and CO2 do indeed move freely through cell

membranes. However, owing to its dipolar moment (chapter 4) and high

solubility, ozone dissolves in the superficial water film and reacts

immediatel with PUFAs of the sebum, generating H2O2 (peroxide) and an

array of perolyl radicals. 4-HNE, on the whole denominated LOPs.

Therefore, it is more than likely that ozone does not even reach the

phospholipid of the outer corneocytes, a conclusion alredy advanced by

Pryor in 1992 for the pulmonary air-tissue boundary. However, the

generated ROS (reactive oxygen species) and LOPs(lipid oxidation

products) can be partly absorbed and pass through the epidermis, derma

and capillary wall to enter into the blood stream. Obviously H2O2 and

other ROS have a very short half-life and will be quickly reduced;

indeed it has been clearly reported that several antioxidants (vitamin

E, C, etc.) are readily oxidized (Thiele et al., 1997 a,b; Podda et al.,

1998 Fuchs and Kern, 1998) "

What this means is that ozone molecules themselves ARE NOT passed in

tact into the blood stream but that toxic ROS and Lipid Oxidation

products are passed, which are the dangerous oxidizers anyway (causing

" rust " as oxidative damage is fondly referred to) so it is important to

insure that you have plenty of tissue vitamins E (natural tocotrienol

versions are best from Palm Seed Oil), Vitamin C, Bioflavanoids,

N-acetyl cysteine (eat organic free range egg yolks!) etc. I basically

have our patients load up every morning with a huge bowel of fresh or

frozen berries, eat fish like Salmon, eat their good organic oils,

avacados, nuts, and make their green juice smoothies, etc. to help

offset the oxidative stress. We also make sure that they don't do ozone

in their saunas more than 3 times per week to avoid too much stress.

You want to go low and slow as they say...

Reference on Prof. Bocci's research for Pressman's steam ozone cabinet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

0541921 & dopt=Abstract

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=\

10541921 & dopt=Abstract>

Hope this helps make the " mud " clearer...

Dr.Bormann

**************************

bjs17792001 wrote:

>

>

>

>

>>The key is the pores.

>>Open pores mean the ozone can penetrate below skin level,

>>and access the blood system. To a molecule of ozone gas, an

>>open pore is the size of the Grand Canyon.

>>

>>

>

>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Saul says it gets in the blood stream, and Dr.B says it doesn't. I

>wonder who is correct?

>

>Dick

>

>

>

>

>

>OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

>THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

>This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for

information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we

believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

>

>You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address

- NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

>DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why can't you just measure the O2 in the blood before and after to see if

there is a difference.

C. Berger

[Guest guest]

Thanx for the clarification. It makes sense.

> >

> >

> >

> >>The key is the pores.

> >>Open pores mean the ozone can penetrate below skin level,

> >>and access the blood system. To a molecule of ozone gas, an

> >>open pore is the size of the Grand Canyon.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >-------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> >

> >Saul says it gets in the blood stream, and Dr.B says it doesn't. I

> >wonder who is correct?

> >

> >Dick

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies,

and other alternative self-help subjects.

> >

> >THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

> >

> >This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find

here are for information and research purposes only. We are people

sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here,

you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common

sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions.

By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR

yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a

medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care

provider.

> >

> >You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> >DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or

BODY of the message! :

> >

> > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

> >

> > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to

normal mode.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Just because Bocci says it does that mean it is true. I know he is

supposedly the number one ozone guy in the world but what is the proof that

it does not enter deeply into the body through the blood. for instance, so

much ozone is sent out of the machine that you are literally saturated with

it. It seems hard to believe to me that every ozone molecule in such a

saturated environment would loose an O molecule.

Flynn

1447 Peachtree St. NE

Suite 414

Atlanta, Ga. 30309

404-881-1700

Tao400@...

Re: Re: Dr.B. reply to Dick on ozone passing into blood

w/sauna

Dear Dick & List:

I'm sorry---I can't accept someones feelings of how ozone cupping in the

armpits " feels " as definitive proof at all! I like a better scientific

explanation in controlled environment that is repeatable.

In reference to whether or not ozone itself makes it into the blood

stream, let me quote Dr.Bocci's book " Oxygen-Ozone Therapy, A Crucial

Evaluation " Vellio Bocci, M.D., Medical Director & Respiratory &

Cardiopulmonary/Vascular specialist

Professor of General Physiology, Sienna University, Sienna, Italy

Kluwer Academic Publishing, ©2002

Borr <mailto:Borr>

Page 200-201

#3. " A crucial question is when the skin is exposed to ozone, does this

gas penetrate all the cell layers to reach the dermis and enter the

capillaries? Advertising would have one believe that ozone reaches the

blood circulation and has a cleansing effect, with the elimination of

viruses and toxins. Yet this claim is not correct and has only

commercial purposes. O2 and CO2 do indeed move freely through cell

membranes. However, owing to its dipolar moment (chapter 4) and high

solubility, ozone dissolves in the superficial water film and reacts

immediatel with PUFAs of the sebum, generating H2O2 (peroxide) and an

array of perolyl radicals. 4-HNE, on the whole denominated LOPs.

Therefore, it is more than likely that ozone does not even reach the

phospholipid of the outer corneocytes, a conclusion alredy advanced by

Pryor in 1992 for the pulmonary air-tissue boundary. However, the

generated ROS (reactive oxygen species) and LOPs(lipid oxidation

products) can be partly absorbed and pass through the epidermis, derma

and capillary wall to enter into the blood stream. Obviously H2O2 and

other ROS have a very short half-life and will be quickly reduced;

indeed it has been clearly reported that several antioxidants (vitamin

E, C, etc.) are readily oxidized (Thiele et al., 1997 a,b; Podda et al.,

1998 Fuchs and Kern, 1998) "

What this means is that ozone molecules themselves ARE NOT passed in

tact into the blood stream but that toxic ROS and Lipid Oxidation

products are passed, which are the dangerous oxidizers anyway (causing

" rust " as oxidative damage is fondly referred to) so it is important to

insure that you have plenty of tissue vitamins E (natural tocotrienol

versions are best from Palm Seed Oil), Vitamin C, Bioflavanoids,

N-acetyl cysteine (eat organic free range egg yolks!) etc. I basically

have our patients load up every morning with a huge bowel of fresh or

frozen berries, eat fish like Salmon, eat their good organic oils,

avacados, nuts, and make their green juice smoothies, etc. to help

offset the oxidative stress. We also make sure that they don't do ozone

in their saunas more than 3 times per week to avoid too much stress.

You want to go low and slow as they say...

Reference on Prof. Bocci's research for Pressman's steam ozone cabinet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_ui

ds=10541921 & dopt=Abstract

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_u

ids=10541921 & dopt=Abstract>

Hope this helps make the " mud " clearer...

Dr.Bormann

**************************

bjs17792001 wrote:

>

>

>

>

>>The key is the pores.

>>Open pores mean the ozone can penetrate below skin level,

>>and access the blood system. To a molecule of ozone gas, an

>>open pore is the size of the Grand Canyon.

>>

>>

>

>--------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Saul says it gets in the blood stream, and Dr.B says it doesn't. I

>wonder who is correct?

>

>Dick

>

>

>

>

>

>OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

>THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

>This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

>You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

>DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Dear Dick & List:

> I'm sorry---I can't accept someones feelings of how ozone cupping

in the

> armpits " feels " as definitive proof at all! I like a better

scientific

> explanation in controlled environment that is repeatable.

Duly noted Dr. Bormann, and I can't think of anyone who could

possibly disagree with that.

Dick

[Guest guest]

> Just because Bocci says it does that mean it is true. I know he is

> supposedly the number one ozone guy in the world but what is the

proof that

> it does not enter deeply into the body through the blood. for

instance, so

> much ozone is sent out of the machine that you are literally

saturated with

> it. It seems hard to believe to me that every ozone molecule in

such a

> saturated environment would loose an O molecule.

> Flynn

> 1447 Peachtree St. NE

> Suite 414

> Atlanta, Ga. 30309

> 404-881-1700

> Tao400@m...

Jeff, I think we are looking for proof that it does enter the blood.

Sometimes I just get this Santa Claus feeling and it will pass.

Dick

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth, I used to inject o3 daily, often following a sauna.

I did some anecdotal test on my blood (looking for bright color) to see

if the sauna did increase oxygen in the blood, testing the color before

and after the sauna- this, when I did the injection.

I noticed in the majority, that my blood brighter than usual after a

sauna.

I have had more injections of Vit C and o3 than I care to remember, and

I do know the difference.

The posts are in the archives.

I still think that injecting 50cc in one shot is too harsh for the

liver, however, if a person could set up a system that delivered same in

a " drip " type set up, it would do some good. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest guest]

Why not? Much anecdotal evidence is superior to " hard " science, where they are

biasing the results by the way the study is set up. Somewhere in your

discussion (or Dr. Bocci's) it was said that the ozone converts to peroxide.

Would the peroxide not break back down into oxygen and monovalent oxygen which

would get the same job done through the ozone sauna as other ways? Just a

thought.

Best wishes and much love, Ken

Ken Gullan

Institute for Research Integration (IRI)

San Diego, CA 92106-2424

IRI is a 501C(3) non-profit corporation established to help children with

developmental difficulties.

To contact me off-list use kengullan@... or call 619-222-1104

Re: Dr.B. reply to Dick on ozone passing into blood w/sauna

> Dear Dick & List:

> I'm sorry---I can't accept someones feelings of how ozone cupping

in the

> armpits " feels " as definitive proof at all! I like a better

scientific

> explanation in controlled environment that is repeatable.

Duly noted Dr. Bormann, and I can't think of anyone who could

possibly disagree with that.

Dick