Guest guest Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 I wanted to let you know that there is flight assistance programs out there. Some parents have gotten help through local shriner's places. There is also http://www.miracleflights.org/ which helps pay for flights for families with sick kids. It looks like kids with PIS seeking Mehta casting would qualify depending on the households income. I don't know how exactly it works as we are within driving distance to a hospital which does Mehta casting, but Just thought I would pass this information along, Jenn Mommy to Cole > > Hello all… > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights over there and back. > > Thank You, > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 I am a mom and grandma and I take my grandkids to the doctor all of the time - my daughter is a single parent and she cannot do it all of the time - we both have great report with the children's doctors and not once has anyone told her she is a bad mom. You are seeking the best treatment for your son and that speaks volumes about what kind of mom you are. We live in Oklahoma and we travel to SLC for casting - my daughter could not afford it either but there are organizations that will help you get there and back. We contacted our local Shriners organization and they provide the airfare for her and my granddaughter - there is also an organization called Angel Flight that I believe some others may use. I go with her and I pay for my own airfare and I also pay for the hotel and car rental. Many places give you a discount if you are a Shriners patient - we usually stay at Crystal Inn. It is $75 per night - and they have a big breakfast bar each morning. We usually rent a car - but you can prearrange for transportation from the SLC Shriners to pick you up from the airport and take you to the hotel and hospital. I know if you have been reading the posts - you know how wonderful we all believe SLC is. The doctors and staff truly make you feel like they are treating their very own children. Please contact Angie Livingston at SLC to get the process started - Good Luck - we are all here for you! Cyndy > > Hello all… > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights over there and back. > > Thank You, > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 , I heard about miracle flights as Jenn mentioned,it may be worth looking into, don't give up...maybe you could at least get your son into a cast to hold his curve until you get to SLC, just a thought...IThis Dr is not right with his judgmental comments. Mommy to 14 mos. 1st cast Shriners, SLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 , You can try to contact the local L.A. Shriners and ask for travel assistance. We pay for our own travel, but it is certainly worth a try. There may be a Mc House or other less expensive hotel to stay in, I know you can stay at the hospital overnight at least one night- one parent stays with the child in the room. In the long run, the co-pays on other treatments that are more drastic, if you miss the window of correction while your child is young- like repeated surgeries- can potentially cost more than this totally free treatment at Shriners. Bracing leading to surgeries can cost one point five million dollars per child over a lifetime, I have heard. And at Shriners SLC, your child would be getting the best medical care in the world for this condition. That possible lifetime cost is not to mention the emotional cost and physical costs down the line, for the whole family, but particularly for the child. I know it's hard to travel, but it may be worth doing the harder thing in the beginning. Based on what I've learned, it is the easier path in the long run. As Cyndy said, you are already being the best mother possible by seeking out the best options and treatment for your child! Hang in there. We are all in the same boat, parents doing our best. Heidi, Bexon's Mommy, (3 years old, in 7th cast from Salt Lake City Shriners, currently down from 62 degrees to 19.7 in cast) From: shan-dog <lareec44@...>infantile scoliosis treatment Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 1:20:26 PMSubject: ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD DOCTOR IN LOS ANGELES Hello all…I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights over there and back. Thank You,Shananon christensen, 57 mommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 , I sent a message to your email, not sure if you got it since I posted it too but it didn't show up on the group. Anyway, definitely contact Salt Lake City, ask for Angie Livingston, and get the application process going. Tell them it's a financial hardship and they might be able to help. We drive - it's about 10 hours each way, and that saves money, and many of the hotels in Salt Lake offer a hospital discount. , mom to Audrey > > Hello all… > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights over there and back. > > Thank You, > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 What a disgusting comment to make to a grandmother about her own daughter! , DO NOT listen to this crap! This makes me so mad. I have no doubt that you are going to get the care he needs. Period. We will help you. When Liv (my daughter)was 9 months old she had curves approaching 80 degrees and all orthos wanted to fuse. I said NO to all and was contacted by quite a few of these docs who had already placed my daughter on their surgery schedule! They hadnt even asked me if this was alright....Anyway, one doc called to tell me that " the blood would be on my hands, " if I didnt let the docs do their job and perform a full on spinal fusion under 1 yr of age!!! (this happened over a decade ago) Long story short, Im so glad I followed my maternal instinct and did not allow this...She is alive today and thriving. Let me know if ISOP can provide you with any documentation needed for the Shrine Temple in L.A. or Miracle Flights. Let me know what I can do to help and I'll do it if I can. You're on the right path, Hon. Dont let anyone tell you different. HRH > Hello all… > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles > area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just > found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. > His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause > after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best > thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one > thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain > anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that > there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then > just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every > single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a > little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. > I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights > over there and back. > > Thank You, > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 This group is so awesome!!!! Thanks Cyndy. HRH > > > I am a mom and grandma and I take my grandkids to the doctor all of the > time - my daughter is a single parent and she cannot do it all of the time > - we both have great report with the children's doctors and not once has > anyone told her she is a bad mom. You are seeking the best treatment for > your son and that speaks volumes about what kind of mom you are. We live > in Oklahoma and we travel to SLC for casting - my daughter could not > afford it either but there are organizations that will help you get there > and back. We contacted our local Shriners organization and they provide > the airfare for her and my granddaughter - there is also an organization > called Angel Flight that I believe some others may use. I go with her and > I pay for my own airfare and I also pay for the hotel and car rental. > Many places give you a discount if you are a Shriners patient - we usually > stay at Crystal Inn. It is $75 per night - and they have a big breakfast > bar each morning. We usually rent a car - but you can prearrange for > transportation from the SLC Shriners to pick you up from the airport and > take you to the hotel and hospital. I know if you have been reading the > posts - you know how wonderful we all believe SLC is. The doctors and > staff truly make you feel like they are treating their very own children. > Please contact Angie Livingston at SLC to get the process started - Good > Luck - we are all here for you! > > Cyndy > > >> >> Hello all… >> >> I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles >> area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we >> just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at >> a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do >> cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the >> best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling >> me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not >> explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us >> that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more >> then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going >> to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so >> it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a >> lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford >> the flights over there and back. >> >> Thank You, >> >> Shananon christensen, 57 mommy >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 , You can stay at my brothers house if a hotel is not in the budget. If timing is right, I'll meet you there. HRH > , > I sent a message to your email, not sure if you got it since I posted it > too but it didn't show up on the group. Anyway, definitely contact Salt > Lake City, ask for Angie Livingston, and get the application process > going. Tell them it's a financial hardship and they might be able to > help. We drive - it's about 10 hours each way, and that saves money, and > many of the hotels in Salt Lake offer a hospital discount. > , mom to Audrey > > >> >> Hello all… >> >> I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles >> area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we >> just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at >> a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do >> cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the >> best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling >> me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not >> explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us >> that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more >> then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going >> to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so >> it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a >> lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford >> the flights over there and back. >> >> Thank You, >> >> Shananon christensen, 57 mommy >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Thank you all, I am now in the process of sending all ’s information to Angie at SLC. Wish us hope… , Thank you very much for all the help. I will be contacting you to get more information regarding getting help on our flights. I am going to try to call you on my lunch break. Thank You, Shananon Christensen ’s mommy From: heather@... <heather@...>Subject: Re: Re: ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD DOCTOR IN LOS ANGELESinfantile scoliosis treatment Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 9:04 AM This group is so awesome!!!! Thanks Cyndy.HRH> >> I am a mom and grandma and I take my grandkids to the doctor all of the> time - my daughter is a single parent and she cannot do it all of the time> - we both have great report with the children's doctors and not once has> anyone told her she is a bad mom. You are seeking the best treatment for> your son and that speaks volumes about what kind of mom you are. We live> in Oklahoma and we travel to SLC for casting - my daughter could not> afford it either but there are organizations that will help you get there> and back. We contacted our local Shriners organization and they provide> the airfare for her and my granddaughter - there is also an organization> called Angel Flight that I believe some others may use. I go with her and> I pay for my own airfare and I also pay for the hotel and car rental.> Many places give you a discount if you are a Shriners patient - we usually> stay at Crystal Inn. It is $75 per night - and they have a big breakfast> bar each morning. We usually rent a car - but you can prearrange for> transportation from the SLC Shriners to pick you up from the airport and> take you to the hotel and hospital. I know if you have been reading the> posts - you know how wonderful we all believe SLC is. The doctors and> staff truly make you feel like they are treating their very own children.> Please contact Angie Livingston at SLC to get the process started - Good> Luck - we are all here for you!>> Cyndy>> >>>> Hello all…>>>> I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles>> area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we>> just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at>> a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do>> cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the>> best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling>> me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not>> explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us>> that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more>> then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going>> to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so>> it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a>> lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford>> the flights over there and back.>>>> Thank You,>>>> Shananon christensen, 57 mommy>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 , We are headed to SLC in August. It is our first casting there. If it can ever be worked out (for future castings) to where we can have our children casted on the same day, you are more than welcome to ride with us. We have a mini van, we'll fit. I also have a friend of a friend who works for Marriott. I can get us a great discount at a Residence Inn (has a fully equipped kitchen). Just know this offer is on the table for whenever you need it. Olivia Nanez-Salazar > > What a disgusting comment to make to a grandmother about her own daughter! > , DO NOT listen to this crap! This makes me so mad. I have no > doubt that you are going to get the care he needs. Period. We will > help you. > When Liv (my daughter)was 9 months old she had curves approaching 80 > degrees and all orthos wanted to fuse. I said NO to all and was contacted > by quite a few of these docs who had already placed my daughter on their > surgery schedule! They hadnt even asked me if this was alright....Anyway, > one doc called to tell me that " the blood would be on my hands, " if I > didnt let the docs do their job and perform a full on spinal fusion under > 1 yr of age!!! (this happened over a decade ago) > Long story short, Im so glad I followed my maternal instinct and did not > allow this...She is alive today and thriving. > Let me know if ISOP can provide you with any documentation needed for the > Shrine Temple in L.A. or Miracle Flights. Let me know what I can do to > help and I'll do it if I can. > You're on the right path, Hon. Dont let anyone tell you different. > HRH > > > Hello all… > > > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles > > area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just > > found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. > > His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause > > after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best > > thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one > > thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain > > anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that > > there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then > > just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every > > single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a > > little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. > > I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights > > over there and back. > > > > Thank You, > > > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 thank you very much Olivia. I really do appreciate it. Where are you located? From: oliviaandjuanandisabella <onanez@...>Subject: Re: ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD DOCTOR IN LOS ANGELESinfantile scoliosis treatment Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 10:47 AM ,We are headed to SLC in August. It is our first casting there. If it can ever be worked out (for future castings) to where we can have our children casted on the same day, you are more than welcome to ride with us. We have a mini van, we'll fit. I also have a friend of a friend who works for Marriott. I can get us a great discount at a Residence Inn (has a fully equipped kitchen). :)Just know this offer is on the table for whenever you need it.Olivia Nanez-Salazar>> What a disgusting comment to make to a grandmother about her own daughter!> , DO NOT listen to this crap! This makes me so mad. I have no> doubt that you are going to get the care he needs. Period. We will> help you.> When Liv (my daughter)was 9 months old she had curves approaching 80> degrees and all orthos wanted to fuse. I said NO to all and was contacted> by quite a few of these docs who had already placed my daughter on their> surgery schedule! They hadnt even asked me if this was alright....Anyway,> one doc called to tell me that "the blood would be on my hands," if I> didnt let the docs do their job and perform a full on spinal fusion under> 1 yr of age!!! (this happened over a decade ago)> Long story short, Im so glad I followed my maternal instinct and did not> allow this...She is alive today and thriving.> Let me know if ISOP can provide you with any documentation needed for the> Shrine Temple in L.A. or Miracle Flights. Let me know what I can do to> help and I'll do it if I can.> You're on the right path, Hon. Dont let anyone tell you different.> HRH> > > Hello all…> >> > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles> > area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just> > found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57.> > His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause> > after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best> > thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one> > thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain> > anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that> > there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then> > just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every> > single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a> > little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more.> > I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights> > over there and back.> >> > Thank You,> >> > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 We are in the High Desert......in Victorville. Olivia > > > > What a disgusting comment to make to a grandmother about her own daughter! > > , DO NOT listen to this crap! This makes me so mad. I have no > > doubt that you are going to get the care he needs. Period. We will > > help you. > > When Liv (my daughter)was 9 months old she had curves approaching 80 > > degrees and all orthos wanted to fuse. I said NO to all and was contacted > > by quite a few of these docs who had already placed my daughter on their > > surgery schedule! They hadnt even asked me if this was alright....Anyway, > > one doc called to tell me that " the blood would be on my hands, " if I > > didnt let the docs do their job and perform a full on spinal fusion under > > 1 yr of age!!! (this happened over a decade ago) > > Long story short, Im so glad I followed my maternal instinct and did not > > allow this...She is alive today and thriving. > > Let me know if ISOP can provide you with any documentation needed for the > > Shrine Temple in L.A. or Miracle Flights. Let me know what I can do to > > help and I'll do it if I can. > > You're on the right path, Hon. Dont let anyone tell you different. > > HRH > > > > > Hello all… > > > > > > I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles > > > area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we just > > > found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at a 57. > > > His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do cause > > > after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the best > > > thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling me one > > > thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not explain > > > anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us that > > > there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more then > > > just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going to every > > > single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so it is a > > > little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a lot more. > > > I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford the flights > > > over there and back. > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > > > Shananon christensen, 57 mommy > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 just let us know what we can do hRH > Thank you all, I am now in the process of sending all ’s > information to Angie at SLC. Wish us hope… > , > Thank you very much for all the help. I will be contacting you to get more > information regarding getting help on our flights. I am going to try to > call you on my lunch break. > Thank You, > Shananon Christensen ’s mommy > > > > > From: heather@... <heather@...> > Subject: Re: Re: ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD DOCTOR IN LOS > ANGELES > infantile scoliosis treatment > Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 9:04 AM > > >  > > > > This group is so awesome!!!! Thanks Cyndy. > HRH > >> >> >> I am a mom and grandma and I take my grandkids to the doctor all of the >> time - my daughter is a single parent and she cannot do it all of the >> time >> - we both have great report with the children's doctors and not once has >> anyone told her she is a bad mom. You are seeking the best treatment for >> your son and that speaks volumes about what kind of mom you are. We live >> in Oklahoma and we travel to SLC for casting - my daughter could not >> afford it either but there are organizations that will help you get >> there >> and back. We contacted our local Shriners organization and they provide >> the airfare for her and my granddaughter - there is also an organization >> called Angel Flight that I believe some others may use. I go with her >> and >> I pay for my own airfare and I also pay for the hotel and car rental. >> Many places give you a discount if you are a Shriners patient - we >> usually >> stay at Crystal Inn. It is $75 per night - and they have a big breakfast >> bar each morning. We usually rent a car - but you can prearrange for >> transportation from the SLC Shriners to pick you up from the airport and >> take you to the hotel and hospital. I know if you have been reading the >> posts - you know how wonderful we all believe SLC is. The doctors and >> staff truly make you feel like they are treating their very own >> children. >> Please contact Angie Livingston at SLC to get the process started - Good >> Luck - we are all here for you! >> >> Cyndy >> >> >>> >>> Hello all… >>> >>> I was just wondering if anybody new a good doctor in the Los Angeles >>> area. My son has been in a brace for a little over a year now and we >>> just found out that it is not working. He stated at a 41 and is now at >>> a 57. His doctor now wants to put a cast on him witch I am happy to do >>> cause after reading all theses stories it sounds like that would be the >>> best thing for him. However, he is just not nice he is always telling >>> me one thing then changing his mind the next visit and he dose not >>> explain anything to us. However, he never gives us opinions, he told us >>> that there is only 1 kind of casting and I just found out there is more >>> then just 1.He also told my mother that I was a bad mom for not going >>> to every single one of my son doctor's visits. I just got a new job so >>> it is a little hard, now that my vacation time kick in I can be there a >>> lot more. I wanted to try to get into SLC but I cannot afford >>> the flights over there and back. >>> >>> Thank You, >>> >>> Shananon christensen, 57 mommy >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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