Re: Re: Genetics - out of our control?
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in Health, Medicine and Natural Healing 11
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in Health, Medicine and Natural Healing 11
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And I'm going to add one more thing those coaches would say about somebody like
Haile...
" OH If I had coached him EARLY, he'd be EVEN FASTER " ....sigh.
Athletes are individuals and sometimes the tendency they adopt naturally is the
one best suited to them.
IMHO, a great coach is one who takes the natural athlete and enhances rather
than tries to break down the style that clearly belongs to that athlete. (I sort
of see a guy like Steve Prefontaine here... other coaches may have made him want
to quit running?)
One can only imagine how many well intentioned folks approached Haile over the
years with the " I can make you FASTER " line...
.
Recently, I have heard of a coach in HS sport who was overtraining baseball
players to the extreme extent of tractor tire flipping and other training
methods that frankly belong at a higher level and essentially telling anybody
who didn't want to constantly be injured or exhausted they could quit! His
argument was he had " created " stars previously at other schools...and so
everyone should do his program and this would cause success and all of them
would be D1 prospects! What happened of course is that some kids wisely told
their parents finally why they were too tired to eat and sleep well...and the
smart folks did switch sports...sigh. It's hard for a kid who has been in
baseball since he was 5 years of age to switch, but this coach convinced them
that they would not be playing anything if they continued to do his program! My
guess was the natural athletes could endure a good deal of the punishment and
were perhaps some of the few left standing - but even they would possibly be
driven to give up the sport they loved?
So coaching can help or hinder the athlete who is blessed with great genetic
gifts - sometimes though the talent is " million dollar talent, 5 cent head... "
Some athletes are so completely out of control in their behavior away from the
sport that they cannot be successfully coached or managed to their own
disadvantage...in this way, genetics are truly out of our control. If you cannot
convince a talented person not to drug, drink excessively, or do other
destructive pursuits, then sooner or later they will be a bad headline and all
the talent on earth cannot save them from the inevitable.
The Phantom
aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
Re: Genetics - out of our control?
Hi Ken,
That's a good point. Being as unathletic as I am - and having studied what fast
people do - I've found it very useful to model elite runners' kinematics and
kinetics. Fortunately enough research has been conducted to do that pretty well,
and teach sound mechanics based on that model.
To be frank, nothing amazes me any more in terms of the 'running technique' many
coaches try to teach. I worked in 6 collegiate athletic programs over the first
15 years of my journeyman/coaching career. All were D1, so you'd think the sport
coaches were competent in something so basic. The stories I could tell...
Disturbed regards,
Plisk
Excelsior Sports
Buffalo NY
Prepare To Be A Champion!
________________________________
Hi !
In a message dated 12/5/2011 12:22:26 P.M. Central Standard Time,
ssp67047 (DOT) com writes: " I would propose that running is nontechnical only
in the sense that we don't teach sound mechanics to our youth. In my experience,
we need to. "
The argument still remains what those " teachable " mechanics really are.
Check out the following clip:
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=EAW87NsiGuI
This is Haille Gebrselassie He has two Olympic gold medals and four World
Championship titles at 10K, In the marathon, he won Berlin four times in a row,
and Dubai three straight years. He's raced and won at every distance from 800 on
up, and holds something like 61 Ethiopian National Records and 27 world records.
At 35, he set the world record in the marathon (Berlin) at 2:03.59. It still
holds as the Masters WR.
...
If coaches did not know who this was, how many do you suspect would point out
all kinds of technical flaws in his running stride?
You'd be amazed how many of my high school colleagues offer technical
corrections for this guy, not realizing that they're looking at arguably the
greatest distance runner of all time.
Ken Jakalski
Lisle High School
Lisle, Illinois USA
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Hi !
In a message dated 12/6/2011 12:19:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,
deadliftdiva@... writes:
And I'm going to add one more thing those coaches would say about somebody
like Haile...
" OH If I had coached him EARLY, he'd be EVEN FASTER " ....sigh.
***
YES! That is so true! You've been around coaches long to know is
exactly what many of them would say.
Athletes are individuals and sometimes the tendency they adopt naturally
is the one best suited to them.
****
Charlie Francis noted this on more than one occasion throughout his career.
IMHO, a great coach is one who takes the natural athlete and enhances
rather than tries to break down the style that clearly belongs to that athlete.
(I sort of see a guy like Steve Prefontaine here... other coaches may have
made him want to quit running?)
Again, very accurate!
One can only imagine how many well intentioned folks approached Haile over
the years with the " I can make you FASTER " line...
.
Recently, I have heard of a coach in HS sport who was overtraining
baseball players to the extreme extent of tractor tire flipping and other
training
methods that frankly belong at a higher level and essentially telling
anybody who didn't want to constantly be injured or exhausted they could quit!
His argument was he had " created " stars previously at other schools...and so
everyone should do his program and this would cause success and all of
them would be D1 prospects! What happened of course is that some kids wisely
told their parents finally why they were too tired to eat and sleep
well...and the smart folks did switch sports...sigh. It's hard for a kid who
has
been in baseball since he was 5 years of age to switch, but this coach
convinced them that they would not be playing anything if they continued to do
his program! My guess was the natural athletes could endure a good deal of
the punishment and were perhaps some of the few left standing - but even they
woul d possibly be driven to give up the sport they loved?
So coaching can help or hinder the athlete who is blessed with great
genetic gifts - sometimes though the talent is " million dollar talent, 5 cent
head... " Some athletes are so completely out of control in their behavior
away from the sport that they cannot be successfully coached or managed to
their own disadvantage...in this way, genetics are truly out of our control.
If you cannot convince a talented person not to drug, drink excessively, or
do other destructive pursuits, then sooner or later they will be a bad
headline and all the talent on earth cannot save them from the inevitable.
I really enjoyed this post. By the way, my current crop of high school
athletes also refer to you as the " Deadlift Diva " That's something that has
just followed on as tradition over the years without my having to reinforce
it. When I put your insights on our bulletin board at school, they right
away know...it's the " Deadlift Diva. "
Regards,
Ken Jakalski
Lisle High School
Lisle, Illinois USA
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The following article is very enlightening in sorting out genetics vs training
in determination of muscle fiber type profile and individual. Any one
interested in this topic should read the original article
**************************
Genetic determinism of fiber type proportion in human skeletal muscle.
JEAN-AIME SIMONEAU’ AND CLAUDE BOUCHARD
http://www.fasebj.org/content/9/11/1091.short
In conclusion, many studies have revealed that skeletal muscle fiber type
distribution is quite heterogeneous among human beings. It is still a matter of
debate whether these interindividual differences are genetically determined or
result from environmental influences. The results summarized in this paper and
displayed in Fig. 1 suggest that a fraction (about 15%) of the total variance in
the proportion
of type I muscle fibers in human is explained by the error component related to
muscle sampling and technical variance, that about 40% of the phenotype variance
is influenced by environmental factors, whereas the remaining part of the
variance (about 45%) is associated with inherited factors. If these estimates
are approximately correct, a difference of about 30% in type I fibers among
individuals could be explained exclusively by differences in the local
environment and level of muscular contractile activity. However, unidentified
genetic factors would have to be invoked to account for the observation that the
skeletal muscle of about 25% of the North American Caucasian population have
either less than 35% or more than 65% of type I fibers.
.. Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USAÂ
________________________________
From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@...>
" Supertraining " <Supertraining >
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Genetics - out of our control?
Â
I have always found the differences between east africans and west africans
rather intriguing. Â When we talk about west africans are we looking and african
americans who are descendants of slaves brought  over as slaves or actual west
africans living n west africa now? Â
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USAÂ
________________________________
From: ambyburf <amby.burfoot@...>
Supertraining
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Genetics - out of our control?
Â
What is interesting here ...
> 4. Of the 80 sprinters to have broken the 10 second barrier, nearly all were
of west African descent. The first white runner broke it in 2010 and he remains
the only one to do it.
.... is that the exact opposite is true for East Africans and distance running.
The East Africans totally dominate. Also, East Africans can't sprint, and West
Africans can't run distance (huge generalities, but mostly true).
Since running is a nontechnical sport learned in early childhood by all
able-bodies humans in all parts of the globe, these East vs West African
differences are somewhat removed from the usual cultural or environmental
influences that affect basketball, skiing, swimming, power lifting, tennis,
golf, and the like. To me, this makes running a good crucible for the testing of
the genetics-performance hypothesis.
The results of this " test " are quite astonishing. Not perfect or proven by any
means. But mathematically astonishing.
Amby Burfoot
Runner's World
Emmaus PA 18049
>
> Since the topis was expanded on, here a few tidbits:
>
> 1. 72% of NBA players are Afro-Americans.
> 2. 25% of all Noble Prize winners were/are Jewish.
> 3. Chess: since the formation of the FIDE in 1886 Jews have held the title
about 55% of the time.
> 4. Of the 80 sprinters to have broken the 10 second barrier, nearly all were
of west African descent. The first white runner broke it in 2010 and he remains
the only one to do it.
> 5. Why do blacks rarely appear in Olympic swimming finals and why do they
hardly ever win medals?
>
> I realize that I have brought up a very controversial issue but it is related,
at least partially, to genetics. Yes, there are cultural and nurturing
explanations (as well as socio-economic) but is there not a genetic elemant to
consider?
>
> I know that I have diverged from the original topic but my point is that
surely genetics must play at least a partial role in explaining these facts. And
I am not convinced how genetics can be modified in the short run (not over the
evolutionary process).
>
> Yehoshua Zohar
> Karmiel, Israel
>
>
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