Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

[Guest guest]

As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

efficient.

Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

acceleration).

The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

light on this?

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

[Guest guest]

Giovanni, in hartford, you were nailed harder than I was down here in

Stamford, but none the less, as an Applied Kinisiologist, very well trained,

I oft had many similar thoughts, as i was was shovelling, and shovelling, an

shovelling. Tho I will share those thoughts, I did tell my neighbor the

ultimate solution to our issues here. I told her that if I was here next

year, w/o any question, I will have snowblower, thus eliminating all these

pesky questions and NM aggravations, about 90%.

As I seem to have hypertonic psoa, due to I believe an overactive kidney

meridian, I must be quite careful, else Im looking at world of hurt. I can

say that with the unending rounds of shovelling, I never strained my

lumbopelvic regions. Hooray for me. So, while out there, especially when it

was knee deep. I was constanly experimenting with different ways to list and

throw. Especially, as the mounds grew higher and the throws needed to be not

only lateral, but have a vertical component. We also to take into

consideration the stikiness factor of the snow. The dryer fluffy stuff

slides off easily, while the heaver stuff did not want to dislodge so

easily, this requring alterd techniques, requiring differnt musculer

'tricks'.

When the snow began initially, I found myself having pretty good L.

forearm pain. With the throw, the shovel obviously needed to be turned while

'in flight', 90 degrees. Thus, that singular and fascinating pain. It took

me a while to figure out why my one forearm ws hurting. My arm got used to

it pdq, so that was that.

I found that If used my hips to provide support for the loaded shovel,

and my gluts and obl. abs to rotate my torso. I got off pretty solid throws

with more weight than I would normally pick up.

Other experiments with different shovel loads, were quite fascinating

from an efficiency pov. All kinds of factors come into play, actually quite

a bit more than so elucidated. Knee & thoracolumbar angulation,

thermal stressors, both cold and overheating, respiratory rate, side of

throw - as the muscle patterns, and the strength factors, widely different

R to L. These factors get added on top of the logical ones you mentioned.

I believe a software program would be called for to handle all the

nuances.

Einhorn

**Please ensure you sign your posts**

_____

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

On Behalf Of Giovanni Ciriani

Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:17 PM

Supertraining

Subject: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

efficient.

Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

acceleration).

The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

light on this?

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

[Guest guest]

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

completely empty. is this what yo meant?

Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar and

the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

mathematically insignificant.

Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

scott einhorn

stamford CT

_____

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

Supertraining

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

completely empty. is this what yo meant?

Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar and

the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

mathematically insignificant.

Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

scott einhorn

stamford CT

_____

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

Supertraining

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

completely empty. is this what yo meant?

Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar and

the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

mathematically insignificant.

Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

scott einhorn

stamford CT

_____

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

Supertraining

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The weight of the snow can vary quite a bit, and I've employed this method

on many occasions, finding the most efficient weight when I actually have to

throw the snow.

Recently we had the welcome assistance of a two-stage snow blower when

dealing with 5 feet of layered snow on our deck. It was interesting to note

the different techniques used by me, 6' 210 lbs, my brother, 6'3 " 175 lbs,

and my 14yo son, 5'7 " 130 lbs when operating the machine.

Another " fun " multi-component winter workout is digging snowmobiles out of

deep powder at high elevations.

Brett

Draper UT

On Feb 6, 2011 9:32 AM, " Brad Bellomo " <bvbellomo@...> wrote:

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was s...

[Guest guest]

The weight of the snow can vary quite a bit, and I've employed this method

on many occasions, finding the most efficient weight when I actually have to

throw the snow.

Recently we had the welcome assistance of a two-stage snow blower when

dealing with 5 feet of layered snow on our deck. It was interesting to note

the different techniques used by me, 6' 210 lbs, my brother, 6'3 " 175 lbs,

and my 14yo son, 5'7 " 130 lbs when operating the machine.

Another " fun " multi-component winter workout is digging snowmobiles out of

deep powder at high elevations.

Brett

Draper UT

On Feb 6, 2011 9:32 AM, " Brad Bellomo " <bvbellomo@...> wrote:

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was s...

[Guest guest]

The weight of the snow can vary quite a bit, and I've employed this method

on many occasions, finding the most efficient weight when I actually have to

throw the snow.

Recently we had the welcome assistance of a two-stage snow blower when

dealing with 5 feet of layered snow on our deck. It was interesting to note

the different techniques used by me, 6' 210 lbs, my brother, 6'3 " 175 lbs,

and my 14yo son, 5'7 " 130 lbs when operating the machine.

Another " fun " multi-component winter workout is digging snowmobiles out of

deep powder at high elevations.

Brett

Draper UT

On Feb 6, 2011 9:32 AM, " Brad Bellomo " <bvbellomo@...> wrote:

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

lots of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was s...

[Guest guest]

Weight of shovel and weight of snow is variable depending on a number of

factors. According to the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture:

Powdery snow will weight about 3 lbs/cu ft whereas wet snow may weight as much

as 20 lbs/cu in. Most of the snow we are receiving in the North east is wet and

dense made worse by the combo of freezing rain.

A plastic shovel is extremely light compared to a metal shovel ( who makes a

metal shovel these days). Not only are buildings collapsing in Connecticut from

the weight of the accumulate snow but the ERs are filling up with injuries and

heart attacks as a result of this snow.

Efficiency when it comes to human work is a very nebulous term and open to

interpretation. Just my opinion.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: Brad Bellomo <bvbellomo@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:22:10 AM

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Weight of shovel and weight of snow is variable depending on a number of

factors. According to the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture:

Powdery snow will weight about 3 lbs/cu ft whereas wet snow may weight as much

as 20 lbs/cu in. Most of the snow we are receiving in the North east is wet and

dense made worse by the combo of freezing rain.

A plastic shovel is extremely light compared to a metal shovel ( who makes a

metal shovel these days). Not only are buildings collapsing in Connecticut from

the weight of the accumulate snow but the ERs are filling up with injuries and

heart attacks as a result of this snow.

Efficiency when it comes to human work is a very nebulous term and open to

interpretation. Just my opinion.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: Brad Bellomo <bvbellomo@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:22:10 AM

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Weight of shovel and weight of snow is variable depending on a number of

factors. According to the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture:

Powdery snow will weight about 3 lbs/cu ft whereas wet snow may weight as much

as 20 lbs/cu in. Most of the snow we are receiving in the North east is wet and

dense made worse by the combo of freezing rain.

A plastic shovel is extremely light compared to a metal shovel ( who makes a

metal shovel these days). Not only are buildings collapsing in Connecticut from

the weight of the accumulate snow but the ERs are filling up with injuries and

heart attacks as a result of this snow.

Efficiency when it comes to human work is a very nebulous term and open to

interpretation. Just my opinion.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: Brad Bellomo <bvbellomo@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:22:10 AM

Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty, and

this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full shovel

is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast you

should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have lots

of chances to try all the variations.

Brad Bellomo

city? Country?

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ralph,

The density of the snow is not a factor in this problem.

For instance, if one comes up with 20 lbs as the most efficient weight to

shovel then, no matter what type of snow one is shoveling, one should always

shovel the same weight. Only the volume will be different: with wet snow it

will be a smaller volume, with powdery snow it will be a bigger volume.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@...> wrote:

>

>

> Weight of shovel and weight of snow is variable depending on a number of

> factors. According to the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture:

> Powdery snow will weight about 3 lbs/cu ft whereas wet snow may weight as

> much

> as 20 lbs/cu in. Most of the snow we are receiving in the North east is wet

> and

> dense made worse by the combo of freezing rain.

>

> A plastic shovel is extremely light compared to a metal shovel ( who makes

> a

> metal shovel these days). Not only are buildings collapsing in Connecticut

> from

> the weight of the accumulate snow but the ERs are filling up with injuries

> and

> heart attacks as a result of this snow.

>

> Efficiency when it comes to human work is a very nebulous term and open to

> interpretation. Just my opinion.

>

> Ralph Giarnella MD

> Southington Ct. USA

>

> ________________________________

> From: Brad Bellomo <bvbellomo@...>

> Supertraining

> Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:22:10 AM

> Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

>

>

> You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

> and

> this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

> shovel

> is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

>

> You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast

> you

> should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

> lots

> of chances to try all the variations.

>

> Brad Bellomo

> city? Country?

>

>

> >

> > As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

> weather,

> > I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> > make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> > correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> > corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal

> effort

> > this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> > combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> > efficient.

> >

> > Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> > shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

> load

> > my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

> the

> > same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> > less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> > able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

> also

> > run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

> >

> > Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

> load

> > is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> > pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

> the

> > maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the

> shovel

> > to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> > load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> > acceleration).

> >

> > The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

> the

> > maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> > hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> > light on this?

> >

> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ralph,

The density of the snow is not a factor in this problem.

For instance, if one comes up with 20 lbs as the most efficient weight to

shovel then, no matter what type of snow one is shoveling, one should always

shovel the same weight. Only the volume will be different: with wet snow it

will be a smaller volume, with powdery snow it will be a bigger volume.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@...> wrote:

>

>

> Weight of shovel and weight of snow is variable depending on a number of

> factors. According to the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture:

> Powdery snow will weight about 3 lbs/cu ft whereas wet snow may weight as

> much

> as 20 lbs/cu in. Most of the snow we are receiving in the North east is wet

> and

> dense made worse by the combo of freezing rain.

>

> A plastic shovel is extremely light compared to a metal shovel ( who makes

> a

> metal shovel these days). Not only are buildings collapsing in Connecticut

> from

> the weight of the accumulate snow but the ERs are filling up with injuries

> and

> heart attacks as a result of this snow.

>

> Efficiency when it comes to human work is a very nebulous term and open to

> interpretation. Just my opinion.

>

> Ralph Giarnella MD

> Southington Ct. USA

>

> ________________________________

> From: Brad Bellomo <bvbellomo@...>

> Supertraining

> Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:22:10 AM

> Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

>

>

> You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

> and

> this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

> shovel

> is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

>

> You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast

> you

> should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

> lots

> of chances to try all the variations.

>

> Brad Bellomo

> city? Country?

>

>

> >

> > As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

> weather,

> > I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> > make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> > correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> > corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal

> effort

> > this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> > combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> > efficient.

> >

> > Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> > shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

> load

> > my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

> the

> > same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> > less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> > able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

> also

> > run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

> >

> > Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

> load

> > is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> > pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

> the

> > maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the

> shovel

> > to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> > load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> > acceleration).

> >

> > The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

> the

> > maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> > hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> > light on this?

> >

> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

The problem is not any different in complexity, or number of variables, than

any sport problem. Cycling, running, sprinting, putting etc. Muscle

physiology gives one a few hints in what direction to experiment, and then

by trial and error one finds more efficient techniques. So no need for

supercomputers.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:39 AM, scott einhorn <docak@...> wrote:

>

>

> We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

> completely empty. is this what yo meant?

> Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar

> and

> the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

> mathematically insignificant.

> Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

> endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

> to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

> scott einhorn

> stamford CT

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

> Supertraining

>

> Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

>

> You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

> and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

> shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

>

> You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast

> you

> should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

> lots of chances to try all the variations.

>

> Brad Bellomo

> city? Country?

>

>

> >

> > As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

> weather,

> > I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> > make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> > correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> > corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal

> effort

> > this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> > combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> > efficient.

> >

> > Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> > shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

> load

> > my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

> the

> > same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> > less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> > able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

> also

> > run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

> >

> > Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

> load

> > is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> > pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

> the

> > maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the

> shovel

> > to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> > load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> > acceleration).

> >

> > The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

> the

> > maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> > hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> > light on this?

> >

> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

The problem is not any different in complexity, or number of variables, than

any sport problem. Cycling, running, sprinting, putting etc. Muscle

physiology gives one a few hints in what direction to experiment, and then

by trial and error one finds more efficient techniques. So no need for

supercomputers.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:39 AM, scott einhorn <docak@...> wrote:

>

>

> We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

> completely empty. is this what yo meant?

> Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar

> and

> the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

> mathematically insignificant.

> Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

> endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

> to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

> scott einhorn

> stamford CT

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

> Supertraining

>

> Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

>

> You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

> and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

> shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

>

> You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast

> you

> should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

> lots of chances to try all the variations.

>

> Brad Bellomo

> city? Country?

>

>

> >

> > As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

> weather,

> > I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> > make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> > correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> > corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal

> effort

> > this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> > combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> > efficient.

> >

> > Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> > shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

> load

> > my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

> the

> > same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> > less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> > able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

> also

> > run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

> >

> > Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

> load

> > is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> > pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

> the

> > maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the

> shovel

> > to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> > load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> > acceleration).

> >

> > The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

> the

> > maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> > hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> > light on this?

> >

> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

The problem is not any different in complexity, or number of variables, than

any sport problem. Cycling, running, sprinting, putting etc. Muscle

physiology gives one a few hints in what direction to experiment, and then

by trial and error one finds more efficient techniques. So no need for

supercomputers.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:39 AM, scott einhorn <docak@...> wrote:

>

>

> We lift the full weight of the shovel itself, everytime, even if/when

> completely empty. is this what yo meant?

> Like weight lifting with plates, we always include the weight of the bar

> and

> the collars. However, with an Al shovel like mine, it becomes

> mathematically insignificant.

> Bur as you say, it would take a supercomputer as the variables are nearly

> endless. We would need an automated, sensor rich, shovelling robotic unit,

> to separate and calculate nuances, as we are having so much fun with here.

> scott einhorn

> stamford CT

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of Brad Bellomo

> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:22 AM

> Supertraining

>

> Subject: Re: Applying Exercise Science to Snow Shoveling

>

> You lift the full weight of the shovel even if it is more than half empty,

> and this is a significant portion of the load. Using a less than half full

> shovel is so horribly ineffient it will ruin any possible gains.

>

> You could still try to calculate the optimal shovel to use, and how fast

> you

> should throw snow. Lots to play around with here, and most of us will have

> lots of chances to try all the variations.

>

> Brad Bellomo

> city? Country?

>

>

> >

> > As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad

> weather,

> > I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> > make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> > correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> > corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal

> effort

> > this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> > combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> > efficient.

> >

> > Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> > shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I

> load

> > my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in

> the

> > same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> > less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> > able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will

> also

> > run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

> >

> > Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient

> load

> > is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> > pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of

> the

> > maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the

> shovel

> > to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> > load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> > acceleration).

> >

> > The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than

> the

> > maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> > hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> > light on this?

> >

> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't have any truly practical thoughts, but I'll offer these two good-humored

observations:

1. There is a certain (snarky) irony in that Giovanni's nicely composed

thoughts, which, while mentioning some 6 or 7 times " efficiency " in

snow-removal, make no mention of comparative advantage (i.e., the truly most

" efficient " method would be to pay your neighbor's kid less that whatever profit

you could realize doing something else more productive -- training clients,

professional development, learning to fix your own furnace.... (Of course, I

personally say " phhbbbt " to efficiency of all sorts, as I not only shovel my own

snow, but do so with a DIY 3½ " -thick shovel.)

2. Shoveling snow on an icy and uneven sidewalk? Hmmm, maybe there is a use for

unstable surface training?! (No, not really.)

>

> As I was shoveling snow in my driveway, after being hit by the bad weather,

> I was thinking that exercise science could be applied to this activity to

> make it more efficient. We know that muscles are most efficient at the

> correct combination of force and velocity, which for a maximal effort

> corresponds approximately to 30-35% maximum force. For a submaximal effort

> this value decreases, but the principle still applies: there will be one

> combination of load and velocity that makes the submaximal effort most

> efficient.

>

> Therefore, if I want to shovel snow most effectively, I should load my

> shovel with just with enough snow to make muscles most efficient. If I load

> my shovel with more snow than that, I will be able to throw more snow in the

> same spot, but I will run out of steam much sooner, having shoveled much

> less snow. If I load my shovel with less snow than the optimum, I will be

> able to throw less snow in the same spot, at a faster rate, but I will also

> run out of steam sooner, having shoveled much less snow.

>

> Let's hypothesize that for 30 minutes of shoveling, the most efficient load

> is 15% of maximum force (I'm just making this number up, and I do not

> pretend it to be correct). Then I should load my shovel with only 15% of the

> maximum load of snow I'm able to lift. However, as I accelerate the shovel

> to throw the snow at a predetermined distance, I encounter an even higher

> load, due to the force of inertia F = m * a (force equals mass times

> acceleration).

>

> The bottom line is that the load on the shovel should be even lower than the

> maximum efficiency. Perhaps it goes from 15% of maximum to 10% in my

> hypothetical example. Any thoughts, or personal anecdotes that can shed

> light on this?

>

> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

>

>

>