Guest guest Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 , Thanks for posting. This study is of interest, but for some of the wrong reasons in my opinion. I've always had an issue with the notion of 'linear periodization' (which doesn't exist). The fact that it's now being referred to as traditional is even more disappointing and misleading. No disrespect intended toward the authors, but that's some sort of double contradiction in terms. ly it's surprising to see this published in a respected, peer reviewed journal. Dr. Bill Kraemer, editor in chief of JSCR, is a great friend and mentor; and his editorial board is a who's who of experts in the field. But this terminology - and the whole premise that it's based on - is really problematic. Regards, Plisk Excelsior Sports Shelton CT www.excelsiorsports.com Prepare To Be A Champion! ________________________________ The below may be of interest: The Effect of Autoregulatory Progressive Resistance Exercise vs. Linear Periodization on Strength Improvement in College Athletes. Mann JB, Thyfault JP, Ivey PA, Sayers SP. J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Jun 10. [Epub ahead of print] Abstract -Autoregulatory progressive resistance exercise (APRE) is a method by which athletes increase strength by progressing at their own pace based on daily and weekly variations in performance, unlike traditional linear periodization (LP), where there is a set increase in intensity from week to week. This study examined whether 6 weeks of APRE was more effective at improving strength compared with traditional LP in division I College football players. We compared 23 division 1 collegiate football players (2.65 +/- 0.8 training years) who were trained using either APRE (n = 12) or LP (n = 11) during 6 weeks of preseason training in 2 separate years. After 6 weeks of training, improvements in total bench press 1 repetition maximum (1RM), squat 1RM, and repeated 225-lb bench press repetitions were compared between the APRE and LP protocol groups. Analysis of variance (ANOVA) and analysis of covariance (ANCOVA) were used to determine differences between groups. Statistical significance was accepted at p </= 0.05. Autoregulatory progressive resistance exercise demonstrated greater improvement in 1RM bench press strength (APRE: 93.4 +/- 103 N vs. LP: -0.40 +/- 49.6 N; ANCOVA: F = 7.1, p = 0.02), estimated 1RM squat strength (APRE: 192.7 +/- 199 N vs. LP: 37.2 +/- 155 N; ANOVA: F = 4.1, p = 0.05) and the number of repetitions performed at a weight of 225 lb (APRE: 3.17 +/- 2.86 vs. LP: -0.09 +/- 2.40 repetitions; ANCOVA: F = 6.8, p = 0.02) compared with the LP group over the 6-week training period. Our findings indicate that the APRE was more effective than the LP means of programming in increasing the bench press and squat over a period of 6 weeks. ============ ==== Carruthers Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 I totally agree. This is the point I was trying to make in my reply. It always feels to me that the current obsession many people seem to have with " non-linear " (and that is the last time I think any of us should us that term - non concentrated might be a better one) is a real step back. The use of D1 athletes was highlighted as a strength in this study. No disrespect to D1 athletes but they are not in the same ball park as top Olympic athletes or other world class performers. Once people start looking into block periodisation (also termed conjugated mesocycles or concentrated mesocycles) they will realise where " Non-linear (or non-concentrated) means belong. They might be effective at producing results for lower level athletes but not for high level ones. For anybody who is interested in this topic I highly recommend the following paper: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Citation/2003/12000/Periodization_Strategies.5.\ aspx I believe it is a key text for any S & C coach. One point I might make now is that Dr Kraemer has published a number of books in which he promotes the term " non-linear " periodisation. He has also allowed a number of articles into this journal that are highly contentious prompting in one case a fairly heated reply from Dr Mike Stone. I think this highlights the need for some in depth studies on concentrated means and high level periodiastion. Due to the nature though such long-term studies are always going to be rare. Andy Mclean Edinburgh, UK > > , > > Thanks for posting. This study is of interest, but for some of the wrong reasons > in my opinion. > > I've always had an issue with the notion of 'linear periodization' (which > doesn't exist). The fact that it's now being referred to as traditional is even > more disappointing and misleading. No disrespect intended toward the authors, > but that's some sort of double contradiction in terms. > > ly it's surprising to see this published in a respected, peer reviewed > journal. Dr. Bill Kraemer, editor in chief of JSCR, is a great friend and > mentor; and his editorial board is a who's who of experts in the field. But this > terminology - and the whole premise that it's based on - is really problematic. > > > Regards, > > Plisk > Excelsior Sports > Shelton CT > www.excelsiorsports.com > Prepare To Be A Champion! > > > ________________________________ > > > The below may be of interest: > > The Effect of Autoregulatory Progressive Resistance Exercise vs. Linear > Periodization on Strength Improvement in College Athletes. > Mann JB, Thyfault JP, Ivey PA, Sayers SP. > > J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Jun 10. [Epub ahead of print] > Abstract > > -Autoregulatory progressive resistance exercise (APRE) is a method by which > athletes increase strength by progressing at their own pace based on daily and > weekly variations in performance, unlike traditional linear periodization (LP), > where there is a set increase in intensity from week to week. > > > This study examined whether 6 weeks of APRE was more effective at improving > strength compared with traditional LP in division I College football players. > We compared 23 division 1 collegiate football players (2.65 +/- 0.8 training > years) who were trained using either APRE (n = 12) or LP (n = 11) during 6 > weeks of preseason training in 2 separate years. After 6 weeks of training, > improvements in total bench press 1 repetition maximum (1RM), squat 1RM, and > repeated 225-lb bench press repetitions were compared between the APRE and LP > protocol groups. Analysis of variance (ANOVA) and analysis of covariance > (ANCOVA) were used to determine differences between groups. Statistical > significance was accepted at p </= 0.05. Autoregulatory progressive resistance > exercise demonstrated greater improvement in 1RM bench press strength (APRE: > 93.4 +/- 103 N vs. LP: -0.40 +/- 49.6 N; ANCOVA: F = 7.1, p = 0.02), estimated > 1RM squat strength (APRE: 192.7 +/- 199 N vs. LP: 37.2 +/- 155 N; ANOVA: F = > 4.1, p = 0.05) and the number of repetitions performed at a weight of 225 lb > (APRE: 3.17 +/- 2.86 vs. LP: -0.09 +/- 2.40 repetitions; ANCOVA: F = 6.8, p = > 0.02) compared with the LP group over the 6-week training period. > > > Our findings indicate that the APRE was more effective than the LP means of > programming in increasing the bench press and squat over a period of 6 weeks. > > ============ ==== > Carruthers > Wakefield, UK > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Hi Andy, I think you nailed the key issues in your previous post as well as this one. Kudos. The linear/nonlinear thing is a step back (nicely put); but unfortunately that terminology has been around long enough - and has enough of a koolaid flavor to it - that it has traction now. So we have a dilemma similar to what we're dealing with on a few other fronts too: how best to redirect people's attention from nonsense that's passing for conventional wisdom. Great point about D1 athletes being sub-elite. I spent much of my coaching career at that level, and can probably count on one hand the number of athletes who reached advanced status by most international standards. Thanks for citing Periodization Strategies as a resource. I know reading that can be a brain sprain - but hopefully it offers a few helpful ideas. All the best, Plisk Excelsior Sports Shelton CT www.excelsiorsports.com Prepare To Be A Champion! ________________________________ Andy Mclean wrote: I totally agree. This is the point I was trying to make in my reply. It always feels to me that the current obsession many people seem to have with " non-linear " (and that is the last time I think any of us should us that term - non concentrated might be a better one) is a real step back. The use of D1 athletes was highlighted as a strength in this study. No disrespect to D1 athletes but they are not in the same ball park as top Olympic athletes or other world class performers. Once people start looking into block periodisation (also termed conjugated mesocycles or concentrated mesocycles) they will realise where " Non-linear (or non-concentrated) means belong. They might be effective at producing results for lower level athletes but not for high level ones. For anybody who is interested in this topic I highly recommend the following paper: http://journals. lww.com/nsca- scj/Citation/ 2003/12000/ Periodization_ Strategies. 5.aspx I believe it is a key text for any S & C coach. One point I might make now is that Dr Kraemer has published a number of books in which he promotes the term " non-linear " periodisation. He has also allowed a number of articles into this journal that are highly contentious prompting in one case a fairly heated reply from Dr Mike Stone. I think this highlights the need for some in depth studies on concentrated means and high level periodiastion. Due to the nature though such long-term studies are always going to be rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Hi Andy! In a message dated 7/5/2010 3:53:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, andrewmclean66@... writes: The use of D1 athletes was highlighted as a strength in this study. No disrespect to D1 athletes but they are not in the same ball park as top Olympic athletes or other world class performers. .. I think this highlights the need for some in depth studies on concentrated means and high level periodiastion. Due to the nature though such long-term studies are always going to be rare. I think your previous points are related. Yes. Long term studies are always going to be rare. How many world class performers are willing to change their protocols to accommodate a study, even one as short six weeks? I think that reality is why having D1 athletes as subjects was considered a study strength. It may be the " closest " researchers can get to elite-level subjects. The interest that many high school coaches have in results from six week studies stems from the reality of coaching at the prep level, especially in track and field, where many athletes come out in January and anticipate running their fastest times by late May (end of season state championships). Progress over six weeks becomes intriguing for this reason. You are indeed correct in that the application to elite world class performers is questionable, but how many of us will be coaching those kinds of athletes during their developmental years? And if D1's are not in the same ball park as world class performers, then I'd consider my situation as being yet another notch down from D1's, since In the past thirty-six years--and at three different schools--I've had just four athletes offered either a partial or full-ride scholarship in track. Ken Jakalski Lisle High School Lisle, IL USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Ken You have pointed out, quite correctly,a reason why long-term studies are not readily available on concentrated means using elite athletes. All of which is fairly much logical and common sense. The other important point I was trying to make was that the comparisons between so called " non-linear " and " linear " means are often unfair as the so called " linear " periodisation represented in many studies is usually something along the lines of 4 weeks performing the same exercises at the same volume and intensity. Whereas the " non-linear " periodisation has rudimentary fluctuations in both volume and intensity. Not surprisingly " non-linear " comes out on top. Being in these cases the better of two fairly poor programs. For examples check out the book optimising strength training by Kraemer and Fleck. The justification of " non-linear " periodisation based on these comparisons is laughable. However this is all a distraction the point that we were trying to make is that mot only are so many of these studies are like this but also add the fact that the terminology has been made-up to be extremely divisive. I mean who wants to be linear when you can be non-linear? Right? I personally believe, having spent many hours studying this area and training a mix of high level, beginner and some elite level athletes, that the so called " non-linear " models are irrelevant. They usually only consider outdated theories on hypertrophy and maximal strength fluctuation between only the two means. I understand the constraints that you are working under having only 6 weeks to prepare your athletes but the models presented in periodisation strategies could still be made to fit such a time frame, although any strength increases will mean little if that strength is not realised or transmuted into usable power in some way. A better solution still, and I'm sure you would agree, would be to give you as a coach adequate time to prepare the athletes or even to ensure that for safety as much as anything you be allowed to deliver some continuity in the training of your athletes not just from a performance perspective but from a health and wellbeing point of view as well. By the way the book Block Periodisation by Vladimir Issurin contains many examples of the use of concentrated mesocycles with top athletes in place of the large scale studies we have all been wanting. Andy McLean Edinburgh, UK > > Hi Andy! > > In a message dated 7/5/2010 3:53:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > andrewmclean66@... writes: > > > The use of D1 athletes was highlighted as a strength in this study. No > disrespect to D1 athletes but they are not in the same ball park as top > Olympic athletes or other world class performers. > > . I think this highlights the need for some in depth studies on > concentrated means and high level periodiastion. Due to the nature though such > long-term studies are always going to be rare. > > I think your previous points are related. Yes. Long term studies are > always going to be rare. How many world class performers are willing to > change their protocols to accommodate a study, even one as short six weeks? > > I think that reality is why having D1 athletes as subjects was considered a > study strength. It may be the " closest " researchers can get to elite-level > subjects. > > The interest that many high school coaches have in results from six week > studies stems from the reality of coaching at the prep level, especially in > track and field, where many athletes come out in January and anticipate > running their fastest times by late May (end of season state championships). > Progress over six weeks becomes intriguing for this reason. > > You are indeed correct in that the application to elite world class > performers is questionable, but how many of us will be coaching those kinds of > athletes during their developmental years? And if D1's are not in the same > ball park as world class performers, then I'd consider my situation as > being yet another notch down from D1's, since In the past thirty-six years--and > at three different schools--I've had just four athletes offered either a > partial or full-ride scholarship in track. > > Ken Jakalski > Lisle High School > Lisle, IL USA > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Andy McLean wrote: ....the terminology has been made-up to be extremely divisive. I mean who wants to be linear when you can be non-linear? Right? ----- Another great point. Actually why settle for either when we can be fractal? Ha! Sorry for rising to new depths - I couldn't resist. Seriously I don't know whether to laugh or cry about some of this stuff. Regards, Plisk Excelsior Sports Shelton CT www.excelsiorsports.com Prepare To Be A Champion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Personally I prefer " chaotic " . I hold several multihide belts that prove it too. 18th level, you bet. Perhaps I want to make big money luring unwitting newbies to my new program, " Suicidal Blonde: Get so fit people kill themselves to sit next to you " . Obviously I have to sound like I have something nobody else has, or I'm so innovative nobody knows what I do....<grin>. thus we have the gurus and their high sounding, whiz bangie sorts of things all the darned time. It's also how clunky non new things like kettle bells get pink plastic coatings and starlets prance about using them....right? I could use the big money, but I'm not sure I want the hassle of being a guru so the world is safe from me at present. Back to lifting and ignoring most of the whiz bangie stuff over here, but it's a good laugh when I'm bored... the Phantom aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, Chaotic Level 18 Powerlifter Denver, Colorado, USA Re: APRE vs. Linear Periodization? Andy McLean wrote: ....the terminology has been made-up to be extremely divisive. I mean who wants to be linear when you can be non-linear? Right? ----- Another great point. Actually why settle for either when we can be fractal? Ha! Sorry for rising to new depths - I couldn't resist. Seriously I don't know whether to laugh or cry about some of this stuff. Regards, Plisk Excelsior Sports Shelton CT www.excelsiorsports.com Prepare To Be A Champion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Ah yes fractal! The overriding feeling I get when I read about fractal, chaos and other such forms is that the person has looked at a concentrated model thought " that's great but too complex to mass market.... I know! Ill present something really simple and give it a cool name. Then Ill make some ridiculous claim like its in tune with your natural biorhythms because it works on a bi-monthly cycle, and Ill claim to be cutting edge " Or its too complex for me to understand therefore I wont even try and Ill use a simple model and claim its the optimum way to train because eight girl-guides increased bicep girth whilst using it! So there you have it my new training system. Moon lifting. Whenever it's a full moon increase your loading by 10%, 5% for a half moon and if its a cloudy night take it off. OK I have probably pulled this to even lower depths now but the point I am trying to make is that there are some great models out there that can be made to fit most situations and athletes. There are also some poor ones and if anybody claims the " new best way to train " please approach with a healthy dose scepticism because in all probability its neither new nor the best. Andy Mclean Edinburgh, UK. > ...the terminology has been made-up to be extremely divisive. I mean who wants > to be linear when you can be non-linear? Right? > ----- > > Another great point. > > Actually why settle for either when we can be fractal? Ha! > > Sorry for rising to new depths - I couldn't resist. Seriously I don't know > whether to laugh or cry about some of this stuff. > > > Regards, > > Plisk > Excelsior Sports > Shelton CT > www.excelsiorsports.com > Prepare To Be A Champion! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Here's additional information regarding APRE training from the ST archives. Thibaudeau wrote: The autoregulation concept which is closely linked the cybernetic periodization and which refers to the actual self-adjustment of the training load according to the daily capacity of the athlete. I first learned this concept from one of Dr. Siff's article in the Soviet Sports Review (1993) on APRE Training and from the work of Dr. Ladislav Pataki. The article by Dr. Siff and the book by Dr. Pataki detailed 2 different method of adjusting your training load to your capacity for that day. Dr. Siff's method consisted of training using a fixed number of reps during a specific workout and increasing intensity until one hit the maximum load he could use for the prescribed number of reps. For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6, one could have the following progression during his training session: Set no.0: Warm-up Set no.1: 6 reps with 50% of his 6RM Set no.2: 6 reps with 75% of his 6RM Set no.3: 6 reps with 100% of his 6RM* * If the third set is successful: Set no.4: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs** **If the fourth set is successful: Set no.5: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs And this goes on until one is unable to complete the prescribed 6 reps ... the last load achieved then become the new 6RM which is used as the basis for the planification of the load to use for the next session. Dr. Pataki's method is slightly different. The load is constant (and must be challenging for the prescribed number of reps) throughout the training session and so is the number of reps per set and the rest between sets. The athlete do as much sets as he can until he cannot complete the number of reps prescribed. For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.2: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.3: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.4: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.5: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (only 5 reps completed) If the athlete is able to sustain a lot of work the load must be increased in the next session or the rest between sets is decreased. To these 2 methods one could add the classic bulgarian wave loading method where you gradually work up to your maximum capacity for a given workout, reduce the load and do more sets, then go back up. Example: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 3 reps with 60% of 1RM Set no.2: 3 reps with 70% of 1RM Set no.3: 3 reps with 80% of 1RM Set no.4: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.5: 1 rep with 95% of 1RM* * If successful: Set no.6: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* * If successful: Set no.7: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* Set no.8: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.9: 2 reps with 95% of 1RM Set no.10: 1 rep with daily max ***Of course this is not a real Bulgarian loading pattern, just an example. Still, one could add the 3-2-1 wave loading method of Canadian weightlifting coach Pierre Roy where one does sets in wave pattern .... each wave comprising 3 sets of increasing intensity. When one is able to complete a wave, he starts a new one with the same reps scheme but with increased loading. Example: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 3 reps with 88% of 1RM Set no.2: 2 reps with 92% of 1RM Set no.3: 1 rep with 98% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.4: 3 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.5: 2 reps with 94% of 1RM Set no.6: 1 rep with 100% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.7: 3 reps with 92% of 1RM Set no.8: 2 reps with 96% of 1RM Set no.9: 1 rep with 102% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.10: 3 reps with 94% of 1RM Set no.11: 2 reps with 98% of 1RM Set no.12: 1 rep with 104% of 1RM Regardless of what scheme you use, the thing I like with this type of training is that it " s highly adjustable to the ever-changing capacities of the athlete. Some days the athlete has not fully restored his glycogen or protein structures so he will not be able to do as much work ... having him stick to a set loading parameters in that case can be overkill and further delay the supercompensation process and vice-versa. IMHO, autoregulating training methods are much more adequate to develop high performance athletes than set-in-stone loading schemes (even one carefully planned taking all physiological aspects in consideration). References: Pataki, L., " Autoregulation of Training Load " in Zbornik VR UV CSZTV, Bratislava, 1983, pp 233-236. Pataki, L., Holden, L., " Winning Secrets " (sorry, I don't have the full ref. I borrowed the book from a friend). Siff MC & Verkhoshansky YV " Supertraining " 1999 Ch 6 Viru, A., " Adaptation in Sports Training " , CRC press, 1995. =================== Carruthers Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 I am not big into weight lifting however I learned Dr. Pataki's method when I was a young teenager (1950's) and purchased my first set of weights from York. I have followed this methodology any time I decide re-institute weight lifting in my regimen. I have also used it to a certain extent when doing hill repeats on my bike. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington Ct USA ________________________________ From: carruthersjam <Carruthersjam@...> Supertraining Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 1:56:12 PM Subject: Re: APRE vs. Linear Periodization? Here's additional information regarding APRE training from the ST archives. Thibaudeau wrote: The autoregulation concept which is closely linked the cybernetic periodization and which refers to the actual self-adjustment of the training load according to the daily capacity of the athlete. I first learned this concept from one of Dr. Siff's article in the Soviet Sports Review (1993) on APRE Training and from the work of Dr. Ladislav Pataki. The article by Dr. Siff and the book by Dr. Pataki detailed 2 different method of adjusting your training load to your capacity for that day. Dr. Siff's method consisted of training using a fixed number of reps during a specific workout and increasing intensity until one hit the maximum load he could use for the prescribed number of reps. For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6, one could have the following progression during his training session: Set no.0: Warm-up Set no.1: 6 reps with 50% of his 6RM Set no.2: 6 reps with 75% of his 6RM Set no.3: 6 reps with 100% of his 6RM* * If the third set is successful: Set no.4: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs** **If the fourth set is successful: Set no.5: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs And this goes on until one is unable to complete the prescribed 6 reps ... the last load achieved then become the new 6RM which is used as the basis for the planification of the load to use for the next session. Dr. Pataki's method is slightly different. The load is constant (and must be challenging for the prescribed number of reps) throughout the training session and so is the number of reps per set and the rest between sets. The athlete do as much sets as he can until he cannot complete the number of reps prescribed. For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.2: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.3: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.4: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) Set no.5: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (only 5 reps completed) If the athlete is able to sustain a lot of work the load must be increased in the next session or the rest between sets is decreased. To these 2 methods one could add the classic bulgarian wave loading method where you gradually work up to your maximum capacity for a given workout, reduce the load and do more sets, then go back up. Example: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 3 reps with 60% of 1RM Set no.2: 3 reps with 70% of 1RM Set no.3: 3 reps with 80% of 1RM Set no.4: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.5: 1 rep with 95% of 1RM* * If successful: Set no.6: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* * If successful: Set no.7: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* Set no.8: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.9: 2 reps with 95% of 1RM Set no.10: 1 rep with daily max ***Of course this is not a real Bulgarian loading pattern, just an example. Still, one could add the 3-2-1 wave loading method of Canadian weightlifting coach Pierre Roy where one does sets in wave pattern .... each wave comprising 3 sets of increasing intensity. When one is able to complete a wave, he starts a new one with the same reps scheme but with increased loading. Example: Set no.0: warm-up Set no.1: 3 reps with 88% of 1RM Set no.2: 2 reps with 92% of 1RM Set no.3: 1 rep with 98% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.4: 3 reps with 90% of 1RM Set no.5: 2 reps with 94% of 1RM Set no.6: 1 rep with 100% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.7: 3 reps with 92% of 1RM Set no.8: 2 reps with 96% of 1RM Set no.9: 1 rep with 102% of 1RM If all 3 sets are successful: Set no.10: 3 reps with 94% of 1RM Set no.11: 2 reps with 98% of 1RM Set no.12: 1 rep with 104% of 1RM Regardless of what scheme you use, the thing I like with this type of training is that it " s highly adjustable to the ever-changing capacities of the athlete. Some days the athlete has not fully restored his glycogen or protein structures so he will not be able to do as much work ... having him stick to a set loading parameters in that case can be overkill and further delay the supercompensation process and vice-versa. IMHO, autoregulating training methods are much more adequate to develop high performance athletes than set-in-stone loading schemes (even one carefully planned taking all physiological aspects in consideration). References: Pataki, L., " Autoregulation of Training Load " in Zbornik VR UV CSZTV, Bratislava, 1983, pp 233-236. Pataki, L., Holden, L., " Winning Secrets " (sorry, I don't have the full ref. I borrowed the book from a friend). Siff MC & Verkhoshansky YV " Supertraining " 1999 Ch 6 Viru, A., " Adaptation in Sports Training " , CRC press, 1995. =================== Carruthers Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Hi Thanks again for sharing this and bringing the discussion back to sensible levels. In your post you quoted: " IMHO, autoregulating training methods are much more adequate to develop high performance athletes than set-in-stone loading schemes even one carefully planned taking all physiological aspects in consideration). " I think you have highlighted one of the problems with this debate, in that people assume that " Linear periodisation " is inflexible. The loading used by such methods is not as " set-in-stone " as you make out. Cybernetic periodisation strategies can and are used in such models. Plans can be adjusted and situations adapted to suit. However one of the main goals of planning and periodisation is to utilise appropriate restitution and restorative means so that an athlete can approach a key work-out in top condition. Many athletes also require targets to be set and perform better when they are taken out of their comfort zone. This is especially true when this is done by a skilled coach who can see an athletes hidden reserves as Vladimir Issarin puts it in his book Block Periodisation. The loading scheme you have proposed may well work for some athletes. The main issue that myself and others have had is the use of the term Linear Periodisation. I dont want to revisit the arguments that other posts have already covered well enough but as I have said before the terms used are divisive. If you say a strength of this type of periodisation is that it can adapt to day to day differences and inconsistencies I say a fault of your initial planning was to not take those factors into consideration in the first place. Unforeseeable, uncontrollable, occurrences excluded. Andy Mclean Edinburgh, UK. > > The autoregulation concept which is closely linked the cybernetic > periodization and which refers to the actual self-adjustment of the > training load according to the daily capacity of the athlete. I first > learned this concept from one of Dr. Siff's article in the Soviet > Sports Review (1993) on APRE Training and from the work of Dr. > Ladislav Pataki. > > The article by Dr. Siff and the book by Dr. Pataki detailed 2 > different method of adjusting your training load to your capacity for > that day. > > Dr. Siff's method consisted of training using a fixed number of reps > during a specific workout and increasing intensity until one hit the > maximum load he could use for the prescribed number of reps. > > For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6, one could have > the following progression during his training session: > > Set no.0: Warm-up > Set no.1: 6 reps with 50% of his 6RM > Set no.2: 6 reps with 75% of his 6RM > Set no.3: 6 reps with 100% of his 6RM* > > * If the third set is successful: > > Set no.4: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs** > > **If the fourth set is successful: > > Set no.5: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs > > And this goes on until one is unable to complete the prescribed 6 > reps ... the last load achieved then become the new 6RM which is used > as the basis for the planification of the load to use for the next > session. > > Dr. Pataki's method is slightly different. The load is constant (and > must be challenging for the prescribed number of reps) throughout the > training session and so is the number of reps per set and the rest > between sets. The athlete do as much sets as he can until he cannot > complete the number of reps prescribed. > > For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.2: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.3: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.4: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.5: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (only 5 reps completed) > > If the athlete is able to sustain a lot of work the load must be > increased in the next session or the rest between sets is decreased. > > To these 2 methods one could add the classic bulgarian wave loading > method where you gradually work up to your maximum capacity for a > given workout, reduce the load and do more sets, then go back up. > > Example: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 3 reps with 60% of 1RM > Set no.2: 3 reps with 70% of 1RM > Set no.3: 3 reps with 80% of 1RM > Set no.4: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.5: 1 rep with 95% of 1RM* > > * If successful: > > Set no.6: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* > > * If successful: > > Set no.7: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* > Set no.8: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.9: 2 reps with 95% of 1RM > Set no.10: 1 rep with daily max > > ***Of course this is not a real Bulgarian loading pattern, just an > example. > > Still, one could add the 3-2-1 wave loading method of Canadian > weightlifting coach Pierre Roy where one does sets in wave pattern > ... each wave comprising 3 sets of increasing intensity. When one is > able to complete a wave, he starts a new one with the same reps > scheme but with increased loading. > > Example: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 3 reps with 88% of 1RM > Set no.2: 2 reps with 92% of 1RM > Set no.3: 1 rep with 98% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.4: 3 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.5: 2 reps with 94% of 1RM > Set no.6: 1 rep with 100% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.7: 3 reps with 92% of 1RM > Set no.8: 2 reps with 96% of 1RM > Set no.9: 1 rep with 102% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.10: 3 reps with 94% of 1RM > Set no.11: 2 reps with 98% of 1RM > Set no.12: 1 rep with 104% of 1RM > > > Regardless of what scheme you use, the thing I like with this type of > training is that it " s highly adjustable to the ever-changing > capacities of the athlete. Some days the athlete has not fully > restored his glycogen or protein structures so he will not be able to > do as much work ... having him stick to a set loading parameters in > that case can be overkill and further delay the supercompensation > process and vice-versa. > > IMHO, autoregulating training methods are much more adequate to > develop high performance athletes than set-in-stone loading schemes > (even one carefully planned taking all physiological aspects in > consideration). > > References: > > Pataki, L., " Autoregulation of Training Load " in Zbornik VR UV CSZTV, > Bratislava, 1983, pp 233-236. > > Pataki, L., Holden, L., " Winning Secrets " (sorry, I don't have the > full ref. I borrowed the book from a friend). > > Siff MC & Verkhoshansky YV " Supertraining " 1999 Ch 6 > > Viru, A., " Adaptation in Sports Training " , CRC press, 1995. > > =================== > Carruthers > Wakefield, UK > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Hi All This is taken from the Harvey Newton ebulletin and is a summary of a poster presentation from the UKSCA conference. • Comparison of Block Versus DUP Among Division I Collegiate Track and Field Athletes: An Exploratory Study, Haff, et al, UKSCA poster presentation. Scientists compared Block (BLP) and Daily Undulating periodization (DUP) with 26 athletes. Body composition, blood work, RFD, and isometric force values were determined over 10 weeks. Conclusions: BLP had greater effects on strength performance and was more efficient compared to DUP. Use of BLP was a more practical and efficient method of training. The editor also added the following note: Editor's note: Fleck, PhD, recently addressed the International Society of Sports Nutrition on the topic of periodization and emphasized the use of the term " non-linear " periodization is more appropriate than " undulating. " First off I realise this is lacking in detail. Perhaps someone on the forum may have some more for us? One of the things that I note though is that the 10 week length of the study would allow for a 4 week accumulation phase, a 4 week transmutation phase and a 2 week realisation (taper) phase. Contrast this to the 6 weeks straight in the study that got this thread started. This would allow for a more reasonable comparison. Andy Mclean Edinburgh, UK. > > The autoregulation concept which is closely linked the cybernetic > periodization and which refers to the actual self-adjustment of the > training load according to the daily capacity of the athlete. I first > learned this concept from one of Dr. Siff's article in the Soviet > Sports Review (1993) on APRE Training and from the work of Dr. > Ladislav Pataki. > > The article by Dr. Siff and the book by Dr. Pataki detailed 2 > different method of adjusting your training load to your capacity for > that day. > > Dr. Siff's method consisted of training using a fixed number of reps > during a specific workout and increasing intensity until one hit the > maximum load he could use for the prescribed number of reps. > > For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6, one could have > the following progression during his training session: > > Set no.0: Warm-up > Set no.1: 6 reps with 50% of his 6RM > Set no.2: 6 reps with 75% of his 6RM > Set no.3: 6 reps with 100% of his 6RM* > > * If the third set is successful: > > Set no.4: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs** > > **If the fourth set is successful: > > Set no.5: 6 reps with an additional 5lbs > > And this goes on until one is unable to complete the prescribed 6 > reps ... the last load achieved then become the new 6RM which is used > as the basis for the planification of the load to use for the next > session. > > Dr. Pataki's method is slightly different. The load is constant (and > must be challenging for the prescribed number of reps) throughout the > training session and so is the number of reps per set and the rest > between sets. The athlete do as much sets as he can until he cannot > complete the number of reps prescribed. > > For example, if the prescribed number of reps was 6: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.2: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.3: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.4: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (completed) > Set no.5: 6 reps with 95% of 6RM (only 5 reps completed) > > If the athlete is able to sustain a lot of work the load must be > increased in the next session or the rest between sets is decreased. > > To these 2 methods one could add the classic bulgarian wave loading > method where you gradually work up to your maximum capacity for a > given workout, reduce the load and do more sets, then go back up. > > Example: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 3 reps with 60% of 1RM > Set no.2: 3 reps with 70% of 1RM > Set no.3: 3 reps with 80% of 1RM > Set no.4: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.5: 1 rep with 95% of 1RM* > > * If successful: > > Set no.6: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* > > * If successful: > > Set no.7: 1 rep with an additional 5-10kg* > Set no.8: 2 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.9: 2 reps with 95% of 1RM > Set no.10: 1 rep with daily max > > ***Of course this is not a real Bulgarian loading pattern, just an > example. > > Still, one could add the 3-2-1 wave loading method of Canadian > weightlifting coach Pierre Roy where one does sets in wave pattern > ... each wave comprising 3 sets of increasing intensity. When one is > able to complete a wave, he starts a new one with the same reps > scheme but with increased loading. > > Example: > > Set no.0: warm-up > Set no.1: 3 reps with 88% of 1RM > Set no.2: 2 reps with 92% of 1RM > Set no.3: 1 rep with 98% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.4: 3 reps with 90% of 1RM > Set no.5: 2 reps with 94% of 1RM > Set no.6: 1 rep with 100% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.7: 3 reps with 92% of 1RM > Set no.8: 2 reps with 96% of 1RM > Set no.9: 1 rep with 102% of 1RM > > If all 3 sets are successful: > > Set no.10: 3 reps with 94% of 1RM > Set no.11: 2 reps with 98% of 1RM > Set no.12: 1 rep with 104% of 1RM > > Regardless of what scheme you use, the thing I like with this type of > training is that it " s highly adjustable to the ever-changing > capacities of the athlete. Some days the athlete has not fully > restored his glycogen or protein structures so he will not be able to > do as much work ... having him stick to a set loading parameters in > that case can be overkill and further delay the supercompensation > process and vice-versa. > > IMHO, autoregulating training methods are much more adequate to > develop high performance athletes than set-in-stone loading schemes > (even one carefully planned taking all physiological aspects in > consideration). > > References: > > Pataki, L., " Autoregulation of Training Load " in Zbornik VR UV CSZTV, > Bratislava, 1983, pp 233-236. > > Pataki, L., Holden, L., " Winning Secrets " (sorry, I don't have the > full ref. I borrowed the book from a friend). > > Siff MC & Verkhoshansky YV " Supertraining " 1999 Ch 6 > > Viru, A., " Adaptation in Sports Training " , CRC press, 1995. > > =================== > Carruthers > Wakefield, UK > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Below are relevant details kindly provided by Dr Haff: COMPARISON OF BLOCK VERSUS DUP TRAINING AMONG DIVISION-1 (D-1) COLLEGIATE TRACK AND FIELD ATHLETES: AN EXPLORATORY STUDY G. G. Haff2, B. Painter1, Mike W. Ramsey1, N. Triplett3, Jeff McBride3 Stuart1, A. Sands4, Margaret E. Stone1, H. Stone1 1Center of Excellence for Sport Science and Coach Education, KLSS, East Tennessee State University, City, TN 2Exercise Science, West Virginia University School of Medicine, town, WV The study was a comparison of Block (BLP) and Daily Undulating periodization (DUP). Greater variation offered by the DUP has been suggested to produce superior results. There are no comparison studies using D-1 athletes fully engaged in training/practice. Purpose: This study compared BLP versus DUP strength training over a 10-wk training early indoor season period among D-1 T & F athletes. Methods: 26 athletes were randomly divided into BLP (n=14, 19.3 ± 0.9 yrs, 176.9±11.3 cm, 86.1±30.9 kg) and DUP (n = 12, 19.4±0.8 yrs, 179±5 cm, 80.7± 18.1 kg). Body composition was measured by plethysmography. Isometric force-time curves (F-TC) were generated using a mid-thigh pull. Peak isometric force (IPF), and rate of force development (RFD, 0–200ms) were derived from the F-TC. Previous work (n = 200+) has consistently resulted in test-retest reliability for IPF of ICC & #945; & #8805; 0.99 and RFD, ICC & #945; & #8805; 0.9. Serum testosterone and cortisol were measured at each testing period (CV < 4%); T:C changes were tracked. There were 4 testing periods (T1=0 wks, T2=3 wks, T3=7 wks, and T4=10 wks). BLP and DUP methods were derived from the scientific literature, textbooks and interviews with coaches using each method. Number and type of exercises were equated, repetitions for BLP changed by week, DUP repetitions changed by day. Both groups performed the same training (throws, sprints, etc.) outside the weight room. Coaches rotated groups every 2 wks to avoid coaching bias. Training variables were recorded daily and volume load (VL) calculated. Based on questionnaire and questioning, if an athlete was perceived to be overly fatigued their loading was reduced or they were given the day off. Maximum strength measures were allometrically scaled (IPFa). Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA, effect size (ES) and % gains. Results: There were no initial statistical differences. Across time there were no statistical differences except for repetitions performed and VL. However, the BLP generally produced greater effect sizes and % gains over time for almost every value (IPF, RFD, T:C). The DUP performed approximately 52% more repetitions and 35% greater VL; this resulted in statistically different amounts of VL (p<0.05). When IPFa gain scores were divided by VL the BLP produced a statistically significantly greater gain (gain/VL). Conclusions: BLP training had greater effects on strength performance and was more efficient compared to DUP. Practical Application: Use of BLP was a more practical and efficient method of training. =================== Carruthers Wakefield, UK > > Hi All > > This is taken from the Harvey Newton ebulletin and is a summary of a poster presentation from the UKSCA conference. > > • Comparison of Block Versus DUP Among Division I Collegiate Track and Field Athletes: An Exploratory Study, Haff, et al, UKSCA poster presentation. > > Scientists compared Block (BLP) and Daily Undulating periodization (DUP) with 26 athletes. Body composition, blood work, RFD, and isometric force values were determined over 10 weeks. Conclusions: BLP had greater effects on strength performance and was more efficient compared to DUP. Use of BLP was a more practical and efficient method of training. > > The editor also added the following note: > > Editor's note: Fleck, PhD, recently addressed the International Society of Sports Nutrition on the topic of periodization and emphasized the use of the term " non-linear " periodization is more appropriate than " undulating. " > > > First off I realise this is lacking in detail. Perhaps someone on the forum may have some more for us? One of the things that I note though is that the 10 week length of the study would allow for a 4 week accumulation phase, a 4 week transmutation phase and a 2 week realisation (taper) phase. Contrast this to the 6 weeks straight in the study that got this thread started. This would allow for a more reasonable comparison. > > Andy Mclean > Edinburgh, UK. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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