Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

[Guest guest]

I played hockey ( recreation ) in the 50s and 60s. The advent of helmets for

players and face masks for goalies came about in the mid 60s. Concussions I

believe was the driving force. The NHL lead the way. At first the veteran

players were exempt from using helmets whereas the rookies had to wear them.

The use of helmets by the pros prompted the change in high schools and youth

hockey.

It became cool to wear a helmet.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: Jerry Telle <JRTELLE@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 7:18:02 PM

Subject: Re: Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

I wonder what the impact curves are with the extra outer layer of

padding. I wore a helmut like this in the early mid 60's in college --

after getting a severe concussion in high school. There would have to

be enough motivation to get players to try these. Naturally it will

eventually boil down to money -- that is players getting hurt when

state of the art equipment is available, or insurance rates or??? How

long did it take hockey players to adopt helmuts -- and why

Jerry " the dork " Telle

Centennial CO USA

On Feb 12, 2011, at 10:05 AM, CoachJ1@... wrote:

> As with the ProCAP, players won't wear it. That was a key in Fusfeld's

> article: " Would NFL Players Risk Looking Like Dorks For Better Head

> Protection? "

[Guest guest]

About twenty five years ago another company introduced a totally different

kind of football head and neck protection. It was a solid piece helmet

and shoulder pads designed for the player's head to move independently within

the exoskeleton-like shell.

Obviously, nobody was interested in this design at any level of football.

There were two major concerns. First, there were issues with player

visibility because of the limited view of the helmet " window. " To look back

for

a ball, the player would have to turn his entire upper body. Second, the

fear was that the player would be more inclined to use his body as a weapon.

Many jumped on Joe Paterno when he suggested that removing the face cages

would reduce injury, but I've heard this similar position put forth by an

orthopedic surgeon several years before Joe's comments.

Ken Jakalski

Lisle High School

Lisle, Illinois USA

[Guest guest]

For more info on concussions here are two articles in today's papers:

The first is concerning a Boston Bruins hockey player plus general info on

concussions from the Mayo clinic.

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/concussion-ends-savards-season/?utm\

_source=feedburner & utm_medium=feed & utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nyt%2Frss%2FSports+(NYT+\

%3E+Sports)

The second is concerning helmets in skiing and snow boarding:

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/649803.html

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: Jerry Telle <JRTELLE@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 7:18:02 PM

Subject: Re: Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

I wonder what the impact curves are with the extra outer layer of

padding. I wore a helmut like this in the early mid 60's in college --

after getting a severe concussion in high school. There would have to

be enough motivation to get players to try these. Naturally it will

eventually boil down to money -- that is players getting hurt when

state of the art equipment is available, or insurance rates or??? How

long did it take hockey players to adopt helmuts -- and why

Jerry " the dork " Telle

Centennial CO USA

On Feb 12, 2011, at 10:05 AM, CoachJ1@... wrote:

> As with the ProCAP, players won't wear it. That was a key in Fusfeld's

> article: " Would NFL Players Risk Looking Like Dorks For Better Head

> Protection? "

[Guest guest]

I do not see a trickle down as much as a trickle up.  Many colleges and high

schools are above the curve with the programs that have been implemented.  It

is

just that now with the NFL and now NHL (though the NHL were big on this a decade

ago) paying more attention the work done at lower levels is becoming

validated. 

Education with coaches, staff, administration, athletes and parents as well as

education of our sports medicine staffs.  Our basic understanding of what a

concussion truly is.  Less to the injury and more to the process the brain goes

thru to heal. 

All of our athletes go thru neurocognitive testing.  We use Impact Software

developed by Docs at the University of Pittsburg.  We have a set policy on

return to participation that is under our team physician.  Unless he gives the

okay for an activity from light bike work to lifting all the way to full go, our

athletes do not participate.  We have a progression of activity and retesting

until the person not only exhibits no symptoms but also baseling neurocognitive

testing is back to normal.

As for the addition of the shell over the top of helmets.  I had many athletes

use one.  It was not a thought of not looking cool.... but they did not prevent

the issues that led to their concussions.  Leading with their own heads.... or

taking a shot to the chin or side of the head.  The most serious concussions I

have seen involved the athlete falling backwards and having the head slam into

the ground.  I am not sure how to ever stop this one from occuring.  Maybe

instead of a round helmet we go with a softer ound shell over a frame designed

more like the front of a goalie mask to deflect forces.

We can teach technique to avoid some concussions from happening.

We can modify rules of the game- head shots

modify equipment - hardness of soccer balls in youth (not sure on this as have

not seen proof it works)

            look at weight of helmets and design

play individual sports in large bubbles

Terry

Aurora, IL

 

________________________________

From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 4:25:06 AM

Subject: Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

 

I believe that what is beginning to happen in the NFL re: concussions will

definitely have a trickle down effect. As th NFL takes concussions and

prevention of concussions seriously the colleges and high schools will also

follow their lead. The fines being levied on players in the NFL who use their

helmets for tackling and in particular helmet to helmet tackles are already

having their impact.

The ongoing study of brain damage in retired NFL players is opening a lot of

eyes. It is one thing to go through the rest of your life with a broken knee

but going through life with a broken brain is an unacceptable risk.

Thanks to the MRIs MRAs and PET scans we are now getting a better look at the

real and lasting damage done to brains by even one concussion. Surgery can fix

or replace a broken knee or hip but not a brain.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct. USA

________________________________

From: casey gallagher <gallagher2201@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 8:33:06 PM

Subject: Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

When I coached high school wrestling I was essentially the athletic trainer, S & C

coach as well as the assistant. During my time we had two wrestlers suffer

concussions. One I didn't catch until we were at a tournament and he looked

terrible his first match. After his match I talked to him and observed he was

showing signs of a concussion. I pulled him from the tournament and didn't allow

him to participate until he got a doctor's clearance. It still bothers me that I

didn't notice this wrestler's symptoms sooner - he had a rather innocuous

landing from a take down during practice - and this was over 10 years ago. The

second wrestler's concussion was much more obvious and easy to spot since it was

a very hard fall from a match and he was able to see the damage to his brain

from an x-ray.

I think that coaches and young players get caught up in the emotion of the

game/match and there becomes this " win at all costs " mentality. We always told

our wrestlers that we didn't care about the wins or losses but we knew they did.

When a coach can teach by their actions - by actions I mean that a coach shows

that the athlete's health is more important than the competition by doing things

like sitting a player who might even be suspected of having a concussion - that

there is more to the game than the win and there is more to life than the game

their players might be less willing to hide or mask a serious injury like a

concussion.

Any law written to protect the health and well being of a young athlete would be

supported by me. When a concussion is suspected, I would always err on the side

of caution for the sake of the athlete. Such a law would also help to remove

some of the brow beating by over zealous parents since the state or athletic

association would require a doctor's release.

, I couldn't agree more that a fundamental philosophical shift needs to

occur at the youth and high school levels to protect young people better.

Casey Gallagher CSCS

Snohomish, WA USA

Re: What we can do to prevent concussions?

In a message dated 2/11/2011 2:53:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Giovanni.Ciriani@...<mailto:Giovanni.Ciriani%40Gmail.com> writes:

..

If the head hits a rigid object (ground, another body etc.) at a certain

speed, the internal damage to the brain will be the same, no matter how

strong neck or shoulder muscles are.

Consider the ProCap concept for football:

Adam Fusfeld wrote the following in his article:: " Would NFL Players Risk

Looking Like Dorks For Better Head Protection "

" Two years before the season of the concussion, designer Bert Straus

invented a _football_

(

http://www.businessinsider.com/would-nfl-players-risk-looking-like-dorks-for-bet\

ter-head-protection-2010-12#<http://www.businessinsider.com/would-nfl-players-ri\

sk-looking-like-dorks-for-better-head-protection-2010-12#>

) helmet designed to

prevent concussions, called the Gladiator, that features an extra layer of

foam on top of the hard plastic. Straus claims the exterior layer of foam

would absorb violent hits better, and significantly reduce concussions.

The concept is reminiscent of the ProCap design that a handful of players

sported in the early 90s. Though anecdotal evidence suggests the helmet was

successful in limiting concussions, it never caught on.

The Gladiator aims for a more aesthetically pleasing design, but it's just

marginally better. Which is exactly why it's unlikely to catch on in the

NFL. While lineman are often willing to ditch form for function, skill

position players – the ones most likely to get jarred by a vicious blow to the

head – are not. They would probably claim the bigger helmets limit their

speed to avoid having to wear it.

There's also the toughness factor. The same NFL doctrine that mandates

players play without sleeves in the snow, immediately pop up after getting

hit, and play through the injuries that result from those hits, would prevent

them from donning a helmet that looks like it comes from outer space in the

name of protection.

That points back to the problems with the concussion discussion as a

whole. While onlookers want as safe a playing field as possible, players don't

seem to care. They step on the field well aware of the dangers – that's why

they occasionally compare themselves to soldiers– and willingly subscribe

to the league wide dogma that every play could be their last. "

Ken Jakalski

Lisle High School

Lisle, Illinois USA