Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't had any problems. Phil Caraher, DPT CH, NC _____ From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On Behalf Of Keon Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:45 PM Supertraining Subject: The Shrug I heard that rotating your shoulders forward or backward while performing shoulder shrugs was bad on the rotator cuff muscle group. Is this true and if so why? ***Please ensure that all posts are completed with your full name, city and country of residence*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... Read this from a physiotherapist.... " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length tension position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders Don't do it. Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . The rotator cuff will suffer. The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. Vitally Toronto RE: The Shrug I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't had any problems. ============================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Hi, What would be the goal of rotating the shoulders? About every shrug one sees at the gym is performed with rotating shoulders. About every db press one sees at the gym is performed " arnold " style, often with an extra twist of the db at the top. Nearly every db curl has an extra twist of the db as well. Why is that? What are these people thinking, if anything? The goal of resistance training is to tax the muscle, overcoming resistance. Therefore nearly all movements go against gravity. Up. Then down. If one sees the technique used by most people, that's difficult enough as it is. And if you don't agree, use more weight! Is it considered " cool " to do an extra twist whenever possible? Perhaps. Is it wise? Definitely not!!! Regards, Johan Bastiaansen Hasselt - Belgium > > I heard that rotating your shoulders forward or backward while performing shoulder shrugs was bad on the rotator cuff muscle group. Is this true and if so why? > > ***Please ensure that all posts are completed with your full name, city and country of residence*** > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > Don't do it. > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . > The rotator cuff will suffer. > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. > > Vitally > Toronto > > > RE: The Shrug > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > had any problems. > > ============================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 wreckless61a wrote: > Nearly every db curl has an extra twist of the db as well. > Why is that? What are these people thinking, if anything? I always assumed that this was done because I understood that the bicep's function was not only flexion of the arm at the elbow, but also a secondary function of supination of the forearm. I am perfectly ready and willing to admit not being an expert in the area, though. Harve, Los Alamos, NM, USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Hello , Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment “... after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball.” Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found beneficial, as you state, for “applying resistance at the full range of motion“? Thank You! Dr. Jim Klostergaard Houston, TX On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@...> wrote: Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > Don't do it. > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . > The rotator cuff will suffer. > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. > > Vitally > Toronto > > > RE: The Shrug > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > had any problems. > > ============================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Just read 's message about shrugging with rotation, and there are a few points I'm not sure I agree with. One is the idea that weightlifters shrug and rotate back during the pull, when I'm pretty sure the scapulae are already back when the pull is initiated. Also, I'm a little confused as to how training a shrug with rotation would have much carryover for baseball or tennis players. Finally, the main reason I've always avoided rotating the shoulders during the shrug is the simple fact that gravity is not acting in the sagittal plane, so I'm not sure what added benefit there would be to it. Brock Leggins Norwalk, IA Re: The Shrug Hello , Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment “... after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball.” Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found beneficial, as you state, for “applying resistance at the full range of motion“? Thank You! Dr. Jim Klostergaard Houston, TX On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@...> wrote: Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > Don't do it. > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . > The rotator cuff will suffer. > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. > > Vitally > Toronto > > > RE: The Shrug > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > had any problems. > > ============================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I have treated a large number of O/Lters and P/Lters over the years and have never had one shoulder or neck problem from cleans, snatch, DL or any other types of pulling exercises.In fact, I use DB shrugs for treating neck/upper back problems with the individual's nose on the edge of a door or door frame to reduce " head poking " while doing the exercise. Go figure Cheers - -- Dr. J. Back Extender Company, Ltd 20 Kensington Ave Whangarei, New Zealand www.backextender.com > Hello , > > Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment " ... after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. " > > Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found beneficial, as you state, for " applying resistance at the full range of motion " ? > > Thank You! > > Dr. Jim Klostergaard > Houston, TX > > > On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. > > Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. > > If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. > > There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. > > Hobman > Saskatoon, Canada > > On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: >> Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... >> >> Read this from a physiotherapist.... >> >> " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te >> nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders >> >> Don't do it. >> Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . >> The rotator cuff will suffer. >> The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. >> The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. >> Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. >> >> Vitally >> Toronto >> >> >> RE: The Shrug >> >> >> I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and >> possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the >> supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as >> well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the >> other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't >> had any problems. >> >> ============================= > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Sorry I missed Jim's post - too busy at the paying job. First, in regards to Brock's query - I don't think the shrug with rotation has carryover to baseball. Personally I think the shrug is a pretty useless exercise for baseball. The snatch isn't. More properly - the overhead squat portion of the snatch (the catch and recovery) requires good shoulder extension. There is also some retraction of the scapula with resulting 'rotation' in the shoulder joint. Anyhow - I wouldn't bother doing the shrug and being an olympic weightlifter and former powerlifter traps and other muscles targeted by the shrug are already very prominent. I'll come back to Jim's question later. However, in terms of technique I follow Tommy Kono's excellent " Weightlifting - Olympic style " as a largely self-trained lifter. Even though I am self-trained I have received some positive feedback from highly qualified weightlifters (well, Mel Siff and a Cuban weightlifter residing in my province) on my technique. Kono suggests the pull begins in a 'lat flare' position. There is no conscious effort to shrug up and back, but weightlifters such as eyev had a noticeable shrug at full extension of his clean. My point is simply that the movement can be done without injury with enormous forces being generated. To answer Jim's question - and recognizing the movement for the shot put is very different than baseball. When I switched to Olympic weightlifting I also started playing baseball again in the summer - geezer league with my brother. Initially my throw was horrible, which was a bit surprising as I had been a pitcher as a youth. However, I noticed as my catch position in the power snatch improved so did my throw. As I actively worked myself down into a squat snatch - which took some time - both my throw and my swing improved quite dramatically. I was doing a lot of additional work (batting cages) for the swing, but virtually nothing for the throw. At this point I still was far weaker in the snatch and jerk, especially in the catch positions. I still have some trouble starting the jerk with the weight on my deltoid muscles and the bar in my palms. So I began an aggressive program aimed at increasing flexibility to improve weightlifting technique. Obviously dislocates with a stick is quite functional. I have found that if I place the stick in a power cage and push forward with my shoulders (shoulder extension) - that is attempting a concentric contraction of the shoulder extensors - while resisting and overcoming the force through my legs and torso I get a greater ROM quite quickly. In effect - while I'm trying to contract the shoulders extensors the movement is actually shoulder flexion. I do reps where I allow extension to take place and then keep trying to extend, but overcome the shoulder force with my legs and torso. I then found the concept of 'resistance stretching' and read quite a bit on it. The idea is very close to proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation stretching that Mel was a big proponent of. Basically I found ROM limits and tried to develop exercises where I would attempt to get out (so to speak) of the extreme ROM and then overcome the attempted contraction with other forces (either gravity or other muscle groups). For baseball - I position my upper arm parallel to the floor with the elbow flexed at 90 degrees, take a stick and then use it as a lever. I try and internally rotate and force the arm back into external rotation - like a tennis 'back scratcher' drill. The possibilities are endless here. I also found exercises such as the Cuban press and Bradford press really helped my shoulders. Other good exercises - bent press with kettlebell, windmills with kettlebell, turkish get-ups, muscle-ups on the bar, etc. I don't do a lot of bar exercises anymore except for the classical lifts and the front squat, but I do a lot of bodyweight and kettlebell GPP, including quite a bit of gymnastics with rings. Mostly trying to develop a ring muscle-up and see if a 200# man can do an iron cross (and, no, I'm no where near right now!!!). Hope this helps. On 10/20/10 1:49 PM, brockleggins@... wrote: > Just read 's message about shrugging with rotation, and there are a few points I'm not sure I agree with. One is the idea that weightlifters shrug and rotate back during the pull, when I'm pretty sure the scapulae are already back when the pull is initiated. Also, I'm a little confused as to how training a shrug with rotation would have much carryover for baseball or tennis players. Finally, the main reason I've always avoided rotating the shoulders during the shrug is the simple fact that gravity is not acting in the sagittal plane, so I'm not sure what added benefit there would be to it. > > Brock Leggins > Norwalk, IA > > Re: The Shrug > > Hello , > > Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment “... after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball.†> > Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found beneficial, as you state, for “applying resistance at the full range of motion“? > > Thank You! > > Dr. Jim Klostergaard > Houston, TX > > > On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. > > Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. > > If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. > > There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. > > Hobman > Saskatoon, Canada > > On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > > > Don't do it. > > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . > > The rotator cuff will suffer. > > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. > > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. > > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. > > > > Vitally > > Toronto > > > > > > RE: The Shrug > > > > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the > > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as > > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the > > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > > had any problems. > > > > ============================= > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Interesting. What kind of problems were the OL and PL'ers having that they came to you? I've found the bench press to be hard on my shoulders, but I never did a lot of assistance work. In retrospect I should have done other types of presses and back work. Instead I followed a Sheiko routine for much of my career. So in terms of my own shoulder problems - it may have been more a result of my workout design being poor than other factors. I'm quite interested in how Jim goes about the conversion. The shot put and other field events are near and dear to me (Scots background and everyone knows field events came from the highland games, right!). Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 10/20/10 9:38 PM, Dr J wrote: > I have treated a large number of O/Lters and P/Lters over the years and > have never had one shoulder or neck problem from cleans, snatch, DL or > any other types of pulling exercises.In fact, I use DB shrugs for > treating neck/upper back problems with the individual's nose on the edge > of a door or door frame to reduce " head poking " while doing the > exercise. Go figure > > Cheers - > > -- > Dr. J. > Back Extender Company, Ltd > 20 Kensington Ave > Whangarei, New Zealand > > www.backextender.com > > > > Hello , > > > > Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment " ... after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. " > > > > Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found beneficial, as you state, for " applying resistance at the full range of motion " ? > > > > Thank You! > > > > Dr. Jim Klostergaard > > Houston, TX > > > > > > On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is 'not wise'. > > > > Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of shoulder injuries. > > > > If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation baseball. > > > > There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. > > > > Hobman > > Saskatoon, Canada > > > > On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > >> Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > >> > >> Read this from a physiotherapist.... > >> > >> " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length > te > >> nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > >> > >> Don't do it. > >> Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with heavy weights . > >> The rotator cuff will suffer. > >> The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the joint and spine. > >> The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC and cervical-spine. > >> Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about the rolling of the shoulders. > >> > >> Vitally > >> Toronto > >> > >> > >> RE: The Shrug > >> > >> > >> I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > >> possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of the > >> supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly as > >> well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or the > >> other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > >> had any problems. > >> > >> ============================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Good point on the cord. I always try and 'separate' the stick - one of Mel's instructional focal points when he was teaching the OH squat. But with a cord or towel there is more feedback. As for resistance stretching - nothing new under the sun. Virtually all of the stretches in Tsatsouline's " Relax Into Stretch " can be converted into a resistance stretch. PNF and 'clasp knife' are very similar conceptually. Supertraining also has a good joint matrix in it where movement can be considered and trained. Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 10/21/10 11:17 AM, todd langer wrote: > Great post, . > > > > Two thoughts. The shoulder dislocates with an elastic cord/band seem safer. > The tension helps people remember to stay active and not perform the > movement without contracting the needed muscles for shoulder stability. > Also, my understanding is that resistance stretching IS a small part of PNF > and your " get out " seems to be more functional than the typical resistance > stretching I see marketed by trainers. > > > > Todd Langer, MS > > Boulder, CO > > > > _____ > > From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] > On Behalf Of Hobman > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:49 AM > Supertraining > Subject: Re: The Shrug > > > > > > Sorry I missed Jim's post - too busy at the paying job. > > First, in regards to Brock's query - I don't think the shrug with rotation > has carryover to baseball. Personally I think the shrug is a pretty useless > exercise for baseball. The snatch isn't. More properly - the overhead squat > portion of the snatch (the catch and recovery) requires good shoulder > extension. There is also some retraction of the scapula with resulting > 'rotation' in the shoulder joint. Anyhow - I wouldn't bother doing the shrug > and being an olympic weightlifter and former powerlifter traps and other > muscles targeted by the shrug are already very prominent. I'll come back to > Jim's question later. > > However, in terms of technique I follow Tommy Kono's excellent > " Weightlifting - Olympic style " as a largely self-trained lifter. Even > though I am self-trained I have received some positive feedback from highly > qualified weightlifters (well, Mel Siff and a Cuban weightlifter residing in > my province) on my technique. Kono suggests the pull begins in a 'lat flare' > position. There is no conscious effort to shrug up and back, but > weightlifters such as eyev had a noticeable shrug at full extension of > his clean. My point is simply that the movement can be done without injury > with enormous forces being generated. > > To answer Jim's question - and recognizing the movement for the shot put is > very different than baseball. > > When I switched to Olympic weightlifting I also started playing baseball > again in the summer - geezer league with my brother. Initially my throw was > horrible, which was a bit surprising as I had been a pitcher as a youth. > However, I noticed as my catch position in the power snatch improved so did > my throw. As I actively worked myself down into a squat snatch - which took > some time - both my throw and my swing improved quite dramatically. I was > doing a lot of additional work (batting cages) for the swing, but virtually > nothing for the throw. > > At this point I still was far weaker in the snatch and jerk, especially in > the catch positions. I still have some trouble starting the jerk with the > weight on my deltoid muscles and the bar in my palms. So I began an > aggressive program aimed at increasing flexibility to improve weightlifting > technique. > > Obviously dislocates with a stick is quite functional. I have found that if > I place the stick in a power cage and push forward with my shoulders > (shoulder extension) - that is attempting a concentric contraction of the > shoulder extensors - while resisting and overcoming the force through my > legs and torso I get a greater ROM quite quickly. In effect - while I'm > trying to contract the shoulders extensors the movement is actually shoulder > flexion. I do reps where I allow extension to take place and then keep > trying to extend, but overcome the shoulder force with my legs and torso. > > I then found the concept of 'resistance stretching' and read quite a bit on > it. The idea is very close to proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation > stretching that Mel was a big proponent of. Basically I found ROM limits and > tried to develop exercises where I would attempt to get out (so to speak) of > the extreme ROM and then overcome the attempted contraction with other > forces (either gravity or other muscle groups). > > For baseball - I position my upper arm parallel to the floor with the elbow > flexed at 90 degrees, take a stick and then use it as a lever. I try and > internally rotate and force the arm back into external rotation - like a > tennis 'back scratcher' drill. The possibilities are endless here. > > I also found exercises such as the Cuban press and Bradford press really > helped my shoulders. > > Other good exercises - bent press with kettlebell, windmills with > kettlebell, turkish get-ups, muscle-ups on the bar, etc. I don't do a lot of > bar exercises anymore except for the classical lifts and the front squat, > but I do a lot of bodyweight and kettlebell GPP, including quite a bit of > gymnastics with rings. Mostly trying to develop a ring muscle-up and see if > a 200# man can do an iron cross (and, no, I'm no where near right now!!!). > > Hope this helps. > > On 10/20/10 1:49 PM, brockleggins@... > <mailto:brockleggins%40hotmail.com> wrote: > > Just read 's message about shrugging with rotation, and there are a > few points I'm not sure I agree with. One is the idea that weightlifters > shrug and rotate back during the pull, when I'm pretty sure the scapulae are > already back when the pull is initiated. Also, I'm a little confused as to > how training a shrug with rotation would have much carryover for baseball or > tennis players. Finally, the main reason I've always avoided rotating the > shoulders during the shrug is the simple fact that gravity is not acting in > the sagittal plane, so I'm not sure what added benefit there would be to it. > > > > Brock Leggins > > Norwalk, IA > > > > Re: The Shrug > > > > Hello , > > > > Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment " ... > after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight > shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation > baseball. " > > > > Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now > find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest > in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found > beneficial, as you state, for " applying resistance at the full range of > motion " ? > > > > Thank You! > > > > Dr. Jim Klostergaard > > Houston, TX > > > > > > On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@... > <mailto:keith.hobman%40usask.ca> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is > 'not wise'. > > > > Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style > weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate > shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury > compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to > cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the > deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no > elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of > shoulder injuries. > > > > If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly > work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of > motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and > resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could > play recreation baseball. > > > > There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - > there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people > these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational > training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is > there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For > that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational > trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than > anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and > retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. > > > > Hobman > > Saskatoon, Canada > > > > On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > > > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > > > > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > > > > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates > increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) > joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the > rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered > length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and > increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper > trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If > the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened > position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper > trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine > and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases > stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot > maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the > shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > > > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be > performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > > > > > Don't do it. > > > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with > heavy weights . > > > The rotator cuff will suffer. > > > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the > joint and spine. > > > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC > and cervical-spine. > > > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about > the rolling of the shoulders. > > > > > > Vitally > > > Toronto > > > > > > > > > RE: The Shrug > > > > > > > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > > > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of > the > > > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly > as > > > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or > the > > > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > > > had any problems. > > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Good point on the cord. I always try and 'separate' the stick - one of Mel's instructional focal points when he was teaching the OH squat. But with a cord or towel there is more feedback. As for resistance stretching - nothing new under the sun. Virtually all of the stretches in Tsatsouline's " Relax Into Stretch " can be converted into a resistance stretch. PNF and 'clasp knife' are very similar conceptually. Supertraining also has a good joint matrix in it where movement can be considered and trained. Hobman Saskatoon, Canada On 10/21/10 11:17 AM, todd langer wrote: > Great post, . > > > > Two thoughts. The shoulder dislocates with an elastic cord/band seem safer. > The tension helps people remember to stay active and not perform the > movement without contracting the needed muscles for shoulder stability. > Also, my understanding is that resistance stretching IS a small part of PNF > and your " get out " seems to be more functional than the typical resistance > stretching I see marketed by trainers. > > > > Todd Langer, MS > > Boulder, CO > > > > _____ > > From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] > On Behalf Of Hobman > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:49 AM > Supertraining > Subject: Re: The Shrug > > > > > > Sorry I missed Jim's post - too busy at the paying job. > > First, in regards to Brock's query - I don't think the shrug with rotation > has carryover to baseball. Personally I think the shrug is a pretty useless > exercise for baseball. The snatch isn't. More properly - the overhead squat > portion of the snatch (the catch and recovery) requires good shoulder > extension. There is also some retraction of the scapula with resulting > 'rotation' in the shoulder joint. Anyhow - I wouldn't bother doing the shrug > and being an olympic weightlifter and former powerlifter traps and other > muscles targeted by the shrug are already very prominent. I'll come back to > Jim's question later. > > However, in terms of technique I follow Tommy Kono's excellent > " Weightlifting - Olympic style " as a largely self-trained lifter. Even > though I am self-trained I have received some positive feedback from highly > qualified weightlifters (well, Mel Siff and a Cuban weightlifter residing in > my province) on my technique. Kono suggests the pull begins in a 'lat flare' > position. There is no conscious effort to shrug up and back, but > weightlifters such as eyev had a noticeable shrug at full extension of > his clean. My point is simply that the movement can be done without injury > with enormous forces being generated. > > To answer Jim's question - and recognizing the movement for the shot put is > very different than baseball. > > When I switched to Olympic weightlifting I also started playing baseball > again in the summer - geezer league with my brother. Initially my throw was > horrible, which was a bit surprising as I had been a pitcher as a youth. > However, I noticed as my catch position in the power snatch improved so did > my throw. As I actively worked myself down into a squat snatch - which took > some time - both my throw and my swing improved quite dramatically. I was > doing a lot of additional work (batting cages) for the swing, but virtually > nothing for the throw. > > At this point I still was far weaker in the snatch and jerk, especially in > the catch positions. I still have some trouble starting the jerk with the > weight on my deltoid muscles and the bar in my palms. So I began an > aggressive program aimed at increasing flexibility to improve weightlifting > technique. > > Obviously dislocates with a stick is quite functional. I have found that if > I place the stick in a power cage and push forward with my shoulders > (shoulder extension) - that is attempting a concentric contraction of the > shoulder extensors - while resisting and overcoming the force through my > legs and torso I get a greater ROM quite quickly. In effect - while I'm > trying to contract the shoulders extensors the movement is actually shoulder > flexion. I do reps where I allow extension to take place and then keep > trying to extend, but overcome the shoulder force with my legs and torso. > > I then found the concept of 'resistance stretching' and read quite a bit on > it. The idea is very close to proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation > stretching that Mel was a big proponent of. Basically I found ROM limits and > tried to develop exercises where I would attempt to get out (so to speak) of > the extreme ROM and then overcome the attempted contraction with other > forces (either gravity or other muscle groups). > > For baseball - I position my upper arm parallel to the floor with the elbow > flexed at 90 degrees, take a stick and then use it as a lever. I try and > internally rotate and force the arm back into external rotation - like a > tennis 'back scratcher' drill. The possibilities are endless here. > > I also found exercises such as the Cuban press and Bradford press really > helped my shoulders. > > Other good exercises - bent press with kettlebell, windmills with > kettlebell, turkish get-ups, muscle-ups on the bar, etc. I don't do a lot of > bar exercises anymore except for the classical lifts and the front squat, > but I do a lot of bodyweight and kettlebell GPP, including quite a bit of > gymnastics with rings. Mostly trying to develop a ring muscle-up and see if > a 200# man can do an iron cross (and, no, I'm no where near right now!!!). > > Hope this helps. > > On 10/20/10 1:49 PM, brockleggins@... > <mailto:brockleggins%40hotmail.com> wrote: > > Just read 's message about shrugging with rotation, and there are a > few points I'm not sure I agree with. One is the idea that weightlifters > shrug and rotate back during the pull, when I'm pretty sure the scapulae are > already back when the pull is initiated. Also, I'm a little confused as to > how training a shrug with rotation would have much carryover for baseball or > tennis players. Finally, the main reason I've always avoided rotating the > shoulders during the shrug is the simple fact that gravity is not acting in > the sagittal plane, so I'm not sure what added benefit there would be to it. > > > > Brock Leggins > > Norwalk, IA > > > > Re: The Shrug > > > > Hello , > > > > Thank you for posting. I was particularly intrigued by your comment " ... > after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and resulting tight > shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could play recreation > baseball. " > > > > Having done bench (and other) presses for almost half a century, I now > find myself in a similar quandary, although provoked by my renewed interest > in shot putting. Would you be kind enough to share what movements you found > beneficial, as you state, for " applying resistance at the full range of > motion " ? > > > > Thank You! > > > > Dr. Jim Klostergaard > > Houston, TX > > > > > > On 9/29/10 4:02 PM, " Hobman " <keith.hobman@... > <mailto:keith.hobman%40usask.ca> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Further to both this email and Johan's comment that shoulder rotation is > 'not wise'. > > > > Why? During the movement of the clean and the snatch olympic style > weightlifters aggressively elevate (shrug shoulders) and retract (rotate > shoulders) their scapula. Weightlifters have a very low incidence of injury > compared to other sports - 'rolling the shoulders' really does not appear to > cause injury, as long as it is trained properly. During lockout of the > deadlift competitive powerlifters retract their scapula although there is no > elevation in this movement) against enormous loads and don't report a lot of > shoulder injuries. > > > > If I was training baseball players and tennis players I would certainly > work shoulder rotation extensively, applying resistance at the full range of > motion. Indeed, after years of bench pressing (as a powerlifter) and > resulting tight shoulders I have had to apply this method myself so I could > play recreation baseball. > > > > There are a number of exercises that feature should rotation. As always - > there are very few inherently bad exercises. At some time for some people > these movements have their place. The onus should be to develop a rational > training program for each person rather than labeling exercises as 'bad'. Is > there a need for a typical person to rotate during shrugs? Probably not. For > that matter - is the shrug a great exercise selection for a recreational > trainer? Probably not - to me the shrug appears to develop the ego more than > anything else. But there is a time and place to train scapular elevation and > retraction, which is to say to shrug and rotate. > > > > Hobman > > Saskatoon, Canada > > > > On 9/28/10 11:52 AM, Vitally wrote: > > > Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury... > > > > > > Read this from a physiotherapist.... > > > > > > " Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates > increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) > joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the > rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered > length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and > increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper > trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If > the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened > position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper > trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine > and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases > stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot > maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the > shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length te > > > nsion position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be > performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders > > > > > > Don't do it. > > > Just go straight up and down, otherwise you will loose stability with > heavy weights . > > > The rotator cuff will suffer. > > > The shoulder joint will grind under heavy pressure. Undo stress at the > joint and spine. > > > The upper trapeziums will become dominant , soo more stress at the AC > and cervical-spine. > > > Do the up and down motion with the whole body tensed , and forget about > the rolling of the shoulders. > > > > > > Vitally > > > Toronto > > > > > > > > > RE: The Shrug > > > > > > > > > I suppose the capsule can get stretched and create hypermobility and > > > possibly lead to instability? Also, possibly subacromial impingement of > the > > > supraspinatus if the scapula and/or humeral head aren't moving properly > as > > > well as other maladies. I have no research to support this one way or > the > > > other. I am sure many people have been dong shrugs for years and haven't > > > had any problems. > > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 On 22/10/2010 4:28 a.m., Hobman wrote: > > _Interesting. What kind of problems were the OL and PL'ers having that > they came to you?_ > O/Lters - knees, wrist, lateral epicondylitis and mid/lower back P.Lters - mid/lower back and bicep tendonitis and a few cervical injuries with the bench press Dr. J. Back Extender Company, Ltd 20 Kensington Ave Whangarei, New Zealand www.backextender.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.