Re: Re: Protein and carbs in vegan diets (steam your veggies!!)

[Guest guest]

With all respect - we're not talking Just three cups here. We're talking 51.

I don't think there's enough steam around....and I think perhaps we should have

folks actually measure out 51 cups before they well, suggest this as a protein

source replacement.

I'm not sure what the dose for 51 cups of kale would be of Beano (probably

trademarked etc) but well....best to simply not induce the problem originally?

I mean, you don't need Beano to eat the approximately 1 pound of equivalent

hamburger, and if cooked it takes up even less volume - and it's more efficient

plus has heme iron and other good attributes. I mean, 1 lb of burger cooked

would be 2 or 3 manageable servings and you would not be struggling to manage to

consume it?

Anyway the amount of protein in green veggies is pretty negligible and along

with that in whole grain bread, I never really consider adding them in to my

total when I'm counting grams of protein...sort of collateral intake as it were.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

Re: Protein and carbs in vegan diets (steam your

veggies!!)

For those who think 3 cups of kale is high volume...

Please steam your veggies so you can digest them and shrink the volume. A pound

of kale steamed shrinks down to a reasonably small serving of vegetable with a

meal. Steamed broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts... etc give much less gas than

the raw stuff. Beano eliminates the residual.

There is no excuse for not eating lots of vegetables.

I'm not getting involved in the protein issue, but lots of vegetables are a

necessary part of a good diet.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY

>

> Hmm. Ok - I took the bait and looked up raw ground beef and raw kale. It's

close on the protein but here's the kicker - takes 3 CUPS of chopped raw kale to

match 1.4 oz of raw hamburger.... in protein. (Start picturing packing your

lunch and you could do a workout carrying the kale? not to mention all that

chopping...?)

>

>

> It's just under 7 grams of protein on both counts. Now, look at the necessary

protein intake of well, on the low end maybe 1.2 grams per kilo/bodyweight of

protein (and yes we can argue a lot but that's one Dr. Mel gave me for general

fitness, not for elite athletes...).

>

>

> My jaws are aching just considering this method of taking in protein for one

thing? I would also seriously hate to be in the same house with anybody trying

to get their protein needs met by way of well, kale, field greens, etc?? (I

suspect Dr. Ralph can give us a notion of just what happens to your digestion

here as well...is it possible for your guts to explode from well, uh, gas and

fiber?)

>

>

> Let's see... were I to graze my way to protein for 1 day..... I weigh around

100 kg. that's 120 grams of protein/day approx for maintenance.... (my real

intake is higher but we're just taking a case here). 120 divided by 7 grams (for

3 cups of kale)..... about 17 servings of 3 cups each of kale?

>

>

> Then there's another matter we haven't discussed, the actual usage of the

protein you take in. Bioavailability to the body versus your intake. The reality

is here that the 120 grams I would get through all that damned kale.... (and

yeah that's one hella lot of kale, right?) would also not be truly 120 grams my

body would effectively use - not the same effective dose as it were from the

same 120 grams acquired from beef or eggs or other sources?

>

>

> Anybody who wants to compete against me and get their protein solely from such

sources is welcome to do so. I'd love to see someone prove me wrong here -

but I'm guessing the experiment will not progress beyond 1-2 days of such

intake...and you'll be incapacitated to lift frankly with such well, fiber

overloads and possibly in the ER?

>

>

> Just because something has protein in it, in a quantity, does not mean people

are meeting their needs by massive intake. I don't think we can come up with

anybody meeting all their protein needs from the Kale method?

>

>

> If they are, I doubt they're doing more than getting out of bed maybe and

meditating....

>

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

[Guest guest]

For those of us who are not into becoming vegans, what do you think of some of

the green drinks that consist of concentrated veggies and fruits?  For example,

Green Vibrance and Perfect Food (Garden of Life). 

 

Do you think these are helpful for those of us who still eat meat?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed White

Sandwich, MA USA

 

From: gloriab <gab9@...>

Subject: Re: Protein and carbs in vegan diets (steam your

veggies!!)

Supertraining

Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:39 PM

 

For those who think 3 cups of kale is high volume...

Please steam your veggies so you can digest them and shrink the volume. A pound

of kale steamed shrinks down to a reasonably small serving of vegetable with a

meal. Steamed broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts... etc give much less gas than

the raw stuff. Beano eliminates the residual.

There is no excuse for not eating lots of vegetables.

I'm not getting involved in the protein issue, but lots of vegetables are a

necessary part of a good diet.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY

>

> Hmm. Ok - I took the bait and looked up raw ground beef and raw kale. It's

close on the protein but here's the kicker - takes 3 CUPS of chopped raw kale to

match 1.4 oz of raw hamburger... . in protein. (Start picturing packing your

lunch and you could do a workout carrying the kale? not to mention all that

chopping...? )

>

>

> It's just under 7 grams of protein on both counts. Now, look at the necessary

protein intake of well, on the low end maybe 1.2 grams per kilo/bodyweight of

protein (and yes we can argue a lot but that's one Dr. Mel gave me for general

fitness, not for elite athletes...) .

>

>

> My jaws are aching just considering this method of taking in protein for one

thing? I would also seriously hate to be in the same house with anybody trying

to get their protein needs met by way of well, kale, field greens, etc?? (I

suspect Dr. Ralph can give us a notion of just what happens to your digestion

here as well...is it possible for your guts to explode from well, uh, gas and

fiber?)

>

>

> Let's see... were I to graze my way to protein for 1 day..... I weigh around

100 kg. that's 120 grams of protein/day approx for maintenance. ... (my real

intake is higher but we're just taking a case here). 120 divided by 7 grams (for

3 cups of kale)..... about 17 servings of 3 cups each of kale?

>

>

> Then there's another matter we haven't discussed, the actual usage of the

protein you take in. Bioavailability to the body versus your intake. The reality

is here that the 120 grams I would get through all that damned kale.... (and

yeah that's one hella lot of kale, right?) would also not be truly 120 grams my

body would effectively use - not the same effective dose as it were from the

same 120 grams acquired from beef or eggs or other sources?

>

>

> Anybody who wants to compete against me and get their protein solely from such

sources is welcome to do so. I'd love to see someone prove me wrong here -

but I'm guessing the experiment will not progress beyond 1-2 days of such

intake...and you'll be incapacitated to lift frankly with such well, fiber

overloads and possibly in the ER?

>

>

> Just because something has protein in it, in a quantity, does not mean people

are meeting their needs by massive intake. I don't think we can come up with

anybody meeting all their protein needs from the Kale method?

>

>

> If they are, I doubt they're doing more than getting out of bed maybe and

meditating.. ..

>

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

[Guest guest]

I consulted on a patient whose primary concern was bloating and increased

flatus. After going through a lengthy interview which included dietary an

supplement history she mentioned that " by the way I am taking this supplement

that supplies all the nutrients of veggies (it was one of the concentrated

drinks you posted below). The problem started around the time she started the

supplement. I suggest that before we have her undergo diagnostic tests that she

stop using the product for about a week. When she returned for a follow up

visit her problem was solved. No more bloating or flatus. One of the easiest

consultations.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

________________________________

From: Ed White <kitesurfer257@...>

Supertraining

Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 1:59:50 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Protein and carbs in vegan diets (steam your

veggies!!)

For those of us who are not into becoming vegans, what do you think of some of

the green drinks that consist of concentrated veggies and fruits? For example,

Green Vibrance and Perfect Food (Garden of Life).

Do you think these are helpful for those of us who still eat meat?

Thanks,

Ed White

Sandwich, MA USA

From: gloriab <gab9cornell (DOT) edu>

Subject: Re: Protein and carbs in vegan diets (steam your

veggies!!)

Supertraining

Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:39 PM

For those who think 3 cups of kale is high volume...

Please steam your veggies so you can digest them and shrink the volume. A pound

of kale steamed shrinks down to a reasonably small serving of vegetable with a

meal. Steamed broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts... etc give much less gas than

the raw stuff. Beano eliminates the residual.

There is no excuse for not eating lots of vegetables.

I'm not getting involved in the protein issue, but lots of vegetables are a

necessary part of a good diet.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY

>

> Hmm. Ok - I took the bait and looked up raw ground beef and raw kale. It's

close on the protein but here's the kicker - takes 3 CUPS of chopped raw kale to

match 1.4 oz of raw hamburger... . in protein. (Start picturing packing your

lunch and you could do a workout carrying the kale? not to mention all that

chopping...? )

>

>

> It's just under 7 grams of protein on both counts. Now, look at the necessary

protein intake of well, on the low end maybe 1.2 grams per kilo/bodyweight of

protein (and yes we can argue a lot but that's one Dr. Mel gave me for general

fitness, not for elite athletes...) .

>

>

> My jaws are aching just considering this method of taking in protein for one

thing? I would also seriously hate to be in the same house with anybody trying

to get their protein needs met by way of well, kale, field greens, etc?? (I

suspect Dr. Ralph can give us a notion of just what happens to your digestion

here as well...is it possible for your guts to explode from well, uh, gas and

fiber?)

>

>

> Let's see... were I to graze my way to protein for 1 day..... I weigh around

100 kg. that's 120 grams of protein/day approx for maintenance. ... (my real

intake is higher but we're just taking a case here). 120 divided by 7 grams (for

3 cups of kale)..... about 17 servings of 3 cups each of kale?

>

>

> Then there's another matter we haven't discussed, the actual usage of the

protein you take in. Bioavailability to the body versus your intake. The reality

is here that the 120 grams I would get through all that damned kale.... (and

yeah that's one hella lot of kale, right?) would also not be truly 120 grams my

body would effectively use - not the same effective dose as it were from the

same 120 grams acquired from beef or eggs or other sources?

>

>

> Anybody who wants to compete against me and get their protein solely from such

sources is welcome to do so. I'd love to see someone prove me wrong here -

but I'm guessing the experiment will not progress beyond 1-2 days of such

intake...and you'll be incapacitated to lift frankly with such well, fiber

overloads and possibly in the ER?

>

>

> Just because something has protein in it, in a quantity, does not mean people

are meeting their needs by massive intake. I don't think we can come up with

anybody meeting all their protein needs from the Kale method?

>

>

> If they are, I doubt they're doing more than getting out of bed maybe and

meditating.. ..

>

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA