Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 hctz put me in the hospital every time i tried it. Tanked my K From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...>Subject: Dr. Grekin visithyperaldosteronism Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed!40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Please elaborate. I don't want to repeat anyone else's problems. > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...> > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > hyperaldosteronism > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > Â > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Indapamide is a far better diuretic much better than HCTZ which is the killer drug L Max. hctz put me in the hospital every time i tried it. Tanked my K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Excellent. Guess you told him I said hello.Have you been on HCTZ before?CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mmcandmcc wrote: I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Did Dr. G suggest lowering Na intake?CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Bingham wrote: hctz put me in the hospital every time i tried it. Tanked my K From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...>Subject: Dr. Grekin visithyperaldosteronism Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed!40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Better yet is to DASH. CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Study Circle wrote: Indapamide is a far better diuretic much better than HCTZ which is the killer drug L Max. hctz put me in the hospital every time i tried it. Tanked my K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Like , I had trouble with HCTZ as well. It dropped my potassium levels really low (ironically, this was the first thing that led me to researching PA and learning what was wrong with me when my then-doctor couldn't figure it out, so this was sort of a blessing in disguise!). As a result, the whole time I was on it I had a lot of trouble with palpitations, headaches, and muscle spasms. Additionally it raised my fasting blood glucose and HBA1C to borderline pre-diabetic levels (going by the newer standards for non-diabetics, not the old-school levels which are much higher). Within a short time of discontinuing the HCTZ these levels came back down to the normal range. So, if I were you I'd proceed with caution and keep a close watch on K and fasting BG. -msmith1928 Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10/13/11 > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The fall in K with HCTZ is a classic tip that PA exists. CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 12:14 PM, msmith_1928 wrote: Like , I had trouble with HCTZ as well. It dropped my potassium levels really low (ironically, this was the first thing that led me to researching PA and learning what was wrong with me when my then-doctor couldn't figure it out, so this was sort of a blessing in disguise!). As a result, the whole time I was on it I had a lot of trouble with palpitations, headaches, and muscle spasms. Additionally it raised my fasting blood glucose and HBA1C to borderline pre-diabetic levels (going by the newer standards for non-diabetics, not the old-school levels which are much higher). Within a short time of discontinuing the HCTZ these levels came back down to the normal range. So, if I were you I'd proceed with caution and keep a close watch on K and fasting BG. -msmith1928 Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10/13/11 > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The fall in K with HCTZ is a classic tip that PA exists. CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 12:14 PM, msmith_1928 wrote: Like , I had trouble with HCTZ as well. It dropped my potassium levels really low (ironically, this was the first thing that led me to researching PA and learning what was wrong with me when my then-doctor couldn't figure it out, so this was sort of a blessing in disguise!). As a result, the whole time I was on it I had a lot of trouble with palpitations, headaches, and muscle spasms. Additionally it raised my fasting blood glucose and HBA1C to borderline pre-diabetic levels (going by the newer standards for non-diabetics, not the old-school levels which are much higher). Within a short time of discontinuing the HCTZ these levels came back down to the normal range. So, if I were you I'd proceed with caution and keep a close watch on K and fasting BG. -msmith1928 Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10/13/11 > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The fall in K with HCTZ is a classic tip that PA exists. CE Grim MDOn Jan 28, 2012, at 12:14 PM, msmith_1928 wrote: Like , I had trouble with HCTZ as well. It dropped my potassium levels really low (ironically, this was the first thing that led me to researching PA and learning what was wrong with me when my then-doctor couldn't figure it out, so this was sort of a blessing in disguise!). As a result, the whole time I was on it I had a lot of trouble with palpitations, headaches, and muscle spasms. Additionally it raised my fasting blood glucose and HBA1C to borderline pre-diabetic levels (going by the newer standards for non-diabetics, not the old-school levels which are much higher). Within a short time of discontinuing the HCTZ these levels came back down to the normal range. So, if I were you I'd proceed with caution and keep a close watch on K and fasting BG. -msmith1928 Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10/13/11 > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 As far as I know all diuretics reduce K and doc must prescribe K-supp at the same time to keep K normal…are you sure you went to a real doctor? This is so obvious. HCTZ of course elevates A1c but then switching to Indapamide would reduce the risks. Max. HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to " try it " and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 As far as I know all diuretics reduce K and doc must prescribe K-supp at the same time to keep K normal…are you sure you went to a real doctor? This is so obvious. HCTZ of course elevates A1c but then switching to Indapamide would reduce the risks. Max. HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to " try it " and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Anything that delivers Na to the distal tubule (esp high salt diet) will lead to increased K in the urine. MCBs will not do this as the block the reabsorb of Na and thus the exchange for K.On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Study Circle wrote: As far as I know all diuretics reduce K and doc must prescribe K-supp at the same time to keep K normal…are you sure you went to a real doctor? This is so obvious. HCTZ of course elevates A1c but then switching to Indapamide would reduce the risks. Max. HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 When I was on Spiro 25mg/d I had to take 9x 20mEq K-supp,Then when Spiro increased to 100 mg/d my K-supp reduced to 6x 20mEqA reduction of 60mEq K-supp for 75 mg/d Spiro. Max. Anything that delivers Na to the distal tubule (esp high salt diet) will lead to increased K in the urine. MCBs will not do this as the block the reabsorb of Na and thus the exchange for K. [sC] On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Study Circle wrote:As far as I know all diuretics reduce K and doc must prescribe K-supp at the same time to keep K normal…are you sure you went to a real doctor? This is so obvious. HCTZ of course elevates A1c but then switching to Indapamide would reduce the risks. Max.,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 When I was on Spiro 25mg/d I had to take 9x 20mEq K-supp,Then when Spiro increased to 100 mg/d my K-supp reduced to 6x 20mEqA reduction of 60mEq K-supp for 75 mg/d Spiro. Max. Anything that delivers Na to the distal tubule (esp high salt diet) will lead to increased K in the urine. MCBs will not do this as the block the reabsorb of Na and thus the exchange for K. [sC] On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Study Circle wrote:As far as I know all diuretics reduce K and doc must prescribe K-supp at the same time to keep K normal…are you sure you went to a real doctor? This is so obvious. HCTZ of course elevates A1c but then switching to Indapamide would reduce the risks. Max.,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012  , For years HCTZ was first line drug on choice. Part of the stepwise treatment of HTN. HCTZ was followed by a CCB, then b-blocker (sometimes these CCB and b-blocker are switched), and finally an ace-inhibitor. Now the lead drug is an ace-inhibitor, probably related in part to Dr Grim's research (interfere with the aldosterone pathway). I've been hypertensive for years and have watched the changes. My drugs in the beginning were classically prescribed. Part of the changes in the last 10 years was cutting back on the HTCZ (50 to 25) and upping the ACE. Barb Re: Dr. Grekin visit HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't believe I've ever taken hctz. Dr. Grekin and I discussed diet and past success with DASH and my current frustration. Since the baby was born four weeks ago, my NA tolererce is much worse than ever. > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very > > impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and > > history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He > > didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum > > hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to > > get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since > > having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't believe I've ever taken hctz. Dr. Grekin and I discussed diet and past success with DASH and my current frustration. Since the baby was born four weeks ago, my NA tolererce is much worse than ever. > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...> > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very > > impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and > > history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He > > didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum > > hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to > > get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since > > having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Its still recommended first with some exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 If you aer nursing then need to know effect of meds on baby. > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very > > > impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and > > > history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He > > > didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum > > > hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to > > > get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since > > > having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 If you aer nursing then need to know effect of meds on baby. > > > > > > From: mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@> > > > Subject: Dr. Grekin visit > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:44 AM > > > > > > > > > I had a visit with Dr. Grekin at U of Michigan and was very > > > impressed! He spent nearly an hour going over my symptoms and > > > history and listened intently! His knowledge was fantastic. He > > > didn't want to do any testing for a few months till the post-partum > > > hormones are back to normal, but added hydrochlorathiazine (sp) to > > > get the fluid off. I'm still struggling with retaining fluid since > > > having the baby four weeks ago. Anyway, very impressed! > > > > > > > > > 40 yr old mom to six, diagnosed w/ PA in 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Nom the change has been pushed by the drug companies who make no money on HCTZ or CTD now the first choice. In HDFP CTD was as good as or better than the ACE, and better that the CCB. The alpha blocker wing of the study was stopped due to increased rate of CDHF. Because DASH does the same as CTD except lower K I push it before going to CTD. CE Grim MD H Barb Re: Dr. Grekin visit HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Nom the change has been pushed by the drug companies who make no money on HCTZ or CTD now the first choice. In HDFP CTD was as good as or better than the ACE, and better that the CCB. The alpha blocker wing of the study was stopped due to increased rate of CDHF. Because DASH does the same as CTD except lower K I push it before going to CTD. CE Grim MD H Barb Re: Dr. Grekin visit HCTZ is the first medication recommended in the guidelines and all providers (well I can't speak for nurse practitioners ) get asked this on the boards about which med you try first in HTN and it is always HCTZ, so it is ingrained as one of the first meds you reach for. It has a fairly safe profile - as far as medicines go - but in our case, and Dr G has elaborated on it in the past, it seems to be magnified in many with PA and the potassium loss we already have (and many of us were put on it before we knew what we had) picks up speed. I seriously ended up 2x in the hospital with HTN and low K right after I tried it and in the ER once (they - my friends, family, colleagues, doctors, would tell me to "try it" and quit doctoring myself and take it as they gave me etc. ) After about 3 different tries in about 5 years, I realized it was certainly the hctz dropping it (but it was low already).......kind of slow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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