Re: Listening to your body?

July 7, 2009

Hi !

Good topic for discussion.

>He knows from his days as a competitive distance runner how hard it is to

decide when to slow down, when to rest, when to push hard through

discomfort or pain.

The 'greater guts' approach is the way both elites and sub-elites view

performance improvements. As Fleming noted, he " couldn't train less or make

himself go more slowly.' If you listen to your body,

" you will not achieve what you are capable of. "

So does this mean that the possibility of injury is just the price we

choose to pay, knowing that success won't come if we indeed listen to our

bodies?

He concludes by noting that " athletes need someone else, a coach if

possible, to tell them when to rest, when to take an easy day and when to work

hard. "

But is such advice often heeded by the elites? The assumption from this

closing remark is that injuries might not occur if athletes listen to

others, like a coach. But many elites have access to good nutritionists, DPM's

physios, chiros, massage therapists, and coaches. Yet many still get

injured at the most inopportune times (like big races). Does this occur

because

they are also not listening to others?

Or can we relate it to something Mel once said in drawing parallels between

auto racing (like NASCAR) and human performance training:

" Ongoing changes in the mechanics and structure of the bodies (cars and

engines) with training and competition cause subtle changes that will affect

subsequent performance, even if special care and maintenance are regularly

carried out. "

Ken Jakalski

Lisle High School

Lisle, IL USA

July 8, 2009

Indeed, listening to your body is one of the most misused phrases in

sports and seldom a sound advice. Our body unlike the dashboard of my car

or the cockpit of a plane, does not, exactly and clearly indicate what is

happening, nor does it give me any advise about what to do. Our body does

not speak, but is a collection of hunderds of mumbling voices, which are

often try to give us contradicing and confusing information. especially

for beginning athletes it does not work, maybe in elite athletes who have

more experience and know better how to distinguish between alarming and

neglectable singals, baesd on their long-term experinece. But reality and

practical experience tell us that even the elite athletes are more often

wrong than right. The same motivation and drive that sets them apart from

the average athlete is the main force in neglecting or suppression

important signals.

Henk Kraaijenhof

Amstelveen

Holland

The below may be of interest.

>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/health/nutrition/25best.html?ref=nutrition

>

> A COLLEAGUE of mine at The Times who is a triathlete had a question:

> Everyone tells you to listen to your body, but what are you supposed to

> listen to? Turns out it's not so obvious.

>

> Deena Kastor, the American record holder for the marathon, interprets the

> advice selectively.

>

> " Running isn't always comfortable, " she said. " I remember running through

> a lot of discomfort and pain. "

>

> And, Ms. Kastor added, she also runs when she does not feel like it.

> " So many times the alarm goes off in the morning and you tell yourself you

> are too tired, " she said. " There are times when you are unmotivated, you

> don't feel your best and most accomplished. "

> But if you ignore those messages from your body and just go out and run or

> do your sport, she said, " those are the days when we have the most pride. "

>

> " The trick in listening to your body is to know what you can run through, "

> she said. " If you have a sharp pain you should take care of it. "

>

> So does listening to your body mean learning to understand the difference

> between a pain that signals a serious injury and one that can be ignored?

> And if it does, why do athletes like Ms. Kastor become seriously injured,

> anyway?

>

> Last year she broke her foot three miles into the marathon at the Beijing

> Olympics. In that same race, a Radcliffe, who holds the world record

> in the women's marathon, ran less than her best because her training was

> interrupted by a stress fracture that had set her back for months.

>

> MAYBE the problem is that it is hard to understand what your body is

> saying.

>

> On the other hand, there is also a different interpretation of " listen to

> your body. " It's one favored by Asker Jeukendrup, the director of the

> Human Performance Laboratory at the University of Birmingham, in England,

> and an ironman triathlete.

> Listening, he said, means that you are supposed to listen for " valuable

> information " and learn to disregard " other negative information that may

> come into your thoughts that is actually irrelevant. "

>

> Dismiss, for example, " some niggles, some feelings of fatigue, " he said.

>

> The goal is to push your body to its limits, but not beyond. Easier said

> than done, he admitted. And, he added, not everyone can do it.

> ACTUALLY, said Tom Fleming, my coach, it is unlikely that anyone can do

> it. Mr. Fleming won the New York City Marathon twice and has coached

> athletes ranging from adolescents to college and nationally ranked

> runners. He knows from his days as a competitive distance runner how hard

> it is to decide when to slow down, when to rest, when to push hard through

> discomfort or pain.

>

> " I never listened to my body, " he said. " Maybe I should have. So let's get

> that clear right off: I think it's an impossible task. "

> When he was training, Mr. Fleming said, he couldn't train less or make

> himself go more slowly. And, he added, if you really listen to your body,

> you will not achieve what you are capable of.

> Athletes need someone else, a coach if possible, he said, to tell them

> when to rest, when to take an easy day and when to work hard.

>

> ==================

> Carruthers

> Wakefield, UK

>

July 8, 2009

" Successful athletes are inherently highly motivated to train. I spend 90% of

my time slowing athletes down and limiting work volumes; only 10% of my time is

spent motivating athletes to work. Thus characteristic does not carry over to

the area of regeneration.

Everything is open-ended. The athlete or the athlete's body is talking, not I.

My job is to listen to what the athlete or the athlete's body is saying. At the

same time, most of our athletes have a sense of self-responsibility and the

maturity to know what training

adjustment is required and to make the change without being prompted.

The athletes know their bodies well enough that if they want

something changed there is usually a good reason.

I can remember a very graphic example of this. In 1982 Ben

came up to me and said " I don't feel like running special

endurance 300's. I feel they break me down. " I said " Okay, you're

not doing them anymore. " Mter that his 200 metre time went from

21.20 to 20.37 so you have to conclude that he was not far off the mark. You

must listen to the athlete and add information to your own observations before

you can manage to train the training. "

==================

The great weightlifter Vasily eyev commented:

" There is much talk about the art of training. But there is nothing concrete.

I myself keep searching for a rational method..... Constantly..... But

generally I train differently from anyone else ...

" It seems to me that some of the talented athletes lack one thing-- they

haven't had an injury. That's right! An injury that will put them out of

commission for a year during which time they'll have a chance to weigh every-

thing. I, too, would not be where I am if I had not injured my back. I

suffered for a year and a half thinking everything over ... After a

misfortune, people pull through and become, if possible, great people -- and

sportsmen, in particular. Those who are stronger find their way out and to

the top ...

Well, all right. Could he explain his training technique? He said, " The

difference between my methodics and others is great. What is mainly different

is that I train more often and I lift more weights than others. I never know

when I will train. Sometimes deep in the night, sometimes in the morning.

Sometimes several times a day, sometimes not at all. I never repeat myself.

Only I understand what is right for me. I have never had a coach. I know my

own possibilities bestly. No coach knows them. Coaches grow old and they have

old ideas. "

======================

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

July 8, 2009

Thanks for the posting - and I like eev's points especially! When people ask

me when my next workout is, I don't really know until I get the gymbag off the

bench to go do it. Why? Because it's a matter of listening to my body, gauging

recovery, and mental will to get the job done. I used to use a fixed schedule -

and I used to have a " coach " - and both systems were not as useful to me as

reading my own " tea leaves " as to how I felt when I got out of bed, and where my

mental state is at.

Having a coach is no guarantee they will actually listen to you. When coaching

an experienced athlete, that's really very important, especially a veteran

athlete or master competitor. Not listening to me cost me three overtrainings in

14 months, not him....merely made him angry at me and " frustrated " at how I

wasn't " putting in enough work " . What did I really gain from this experience?

Well, I know exactly where the overtraining edge is now, versus a productive

advance and testing of my strength. I also know better than to stand by a fixed

training schedule. Markers are now based on weeks, not exact days.

With younger athletes in a group setting though, it's more difficult to

accommodate individual training recovery and preparedness markers. Say you have

50 kids training and they all need to hit the gym in a prescribed timeframe, for

the same workouts overall. When you have less experienced athletes, sometimes

they're there under a command from a parent or some other reason rather than

truly motivated, and also they can be less than cooperative or focused. So I've

often thought it's much more challenging to work with kids in this type of group

work than individuals, particularly those with some basis and experience in

their sport.

Lastly, there's no accounting for stubborness. Sometimes people don't listen

until after the breakdown and you can see it coming, as a person who works with

athletes in MT and coaching, I've seen plenty of this. Lately the women are no

less stubborn in the desire to achieve and " brute out " the injuries than the

men...sigh. Listening goes both ways, the athlete must learn to listen to the

body and those who have an outside and possibly better angle to determine a

potential breakdown or setback in advance of its occurrence.