Re: Environment of Harm?

[Guest guest]

LOL- I didn’t even notice. I don’t go to the homepage much.

What is up with that?

On 10/6/07 8:55 AM, " Weed " <weedlets@...> wrote:

Did I miss something? Why the name change from " Evidence of Harm "

to " Environment of Harm " for this Group? Just wondering...

[Guest guest]

And it used to say somthing about Kirby's book and that is all

removed now...

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Did I miss something? Why the name change from " Evidence of Harm "

> > to " Environment of Harm " for this Group? Just wondering...

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe it's a move by Lenny to repurpose the list (somewhat) as he prepares to

relinquish

control of it to someone else? Or perhaps for legal/copyright reasons?

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Did I miss something? Why the name change from " Evidence of Harm "

> > > to " Environment of Harm " for this Group? Just wondering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

WHAT? I think this group deserves an explaination ASAP!

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Did I miss something? Why the name change from " Evidence of

Harm "

> > > > to " Environment of Harm " for this Group? Just

wondering...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

The change in title was made about a week ago. This is no

earth-shattering remake. The retitling merely reflects the growth of

the focus of the list that has gone beyond mercury and vaccines -- to

include concerns about other potential environmental causes of autism.

Kirby's book, Evidence of Harm, was heroic in its ability to

raise awareness about the forces behind the autism epidemic. But the

book's time line ends about three years into the past. It's time to

look into the future, hopefully with new management at the helm.

Lenny Schafer

EOHarm List Co-host

>

> Did I miss something? Why the name change from " Evidence of Harm "

> to " Environment of Harm " for this Group? Just wondering...

>

[Guest guest]

My first reaction on discovering that the EOH newsgroup has been

renamed from Evidence of Harm to Environment of Harm was anger.

Probably I would not have been so angry had I not noticed a few weeks

ago that the Participant Productions website had taken down any

mention of Evidence of Harm, the movie. When I try to contact them or

Kirby thru their websites, I get no reply.

Perhaps I should take advantage of the name change however to speak

about an incident that would have been off topic a while back, but I

guess isn't, now.

On Friday my son had some friends sleeping over. One of them was a boy

who had never been here at our home before, although my son had gotten

together with him at another friend's house. Apparently my basement

smelled a bit musty for his liking, and he decided that it would be

hilariously funny to fix the situation by spraying Axe deodorant all

over the place. Accounts of the amount vary depending on which child

is telling the story, from " a few sprays " , to " about a half of a can " .

My house smelled, afterward, like it was probably closer to the later.

I assumed that it was the perfume in the stuff that was making me sick

on Friday night when it was first sprayed. Now I'm wondering if it's

got to do with the other ingredients as well. I don't know what is in

that stuff but I understand most spray deodorants have aluminum in them.

My son went thru all of the stuff on the shelves down there and dusted

it all off and then wiped down all of the shelves and vacuumed. But

there is only so much I can do with the train layout that I've worked

on over the last few years. It's a bit fragile to try to vacuum

thoroughly.

Now I've got two kids home sick, and a cat that's barfing. Although

it's not unusual for the cat to be barfing. I just have always assumed

that that is because of the pet food.

The smell was intolerable in the basement, where there are no windows.

It was intolerable in the family room. I was able to open windows

there and set up fans but I don't know how many weeks it will take for

the odor to dissipate from the carpet and the upholstery. I did have

my son sprinkle a generous amount of baking soda on everything and let

that set awhile before he vacuumed. It seemed to help somewhat in the

family room, but little in the basement. At any rate, while baking

soda might help get rid of the odor, I doubt it does much for the

aluminum.

I feel like I'm living in a toxic waste dump.

Although it was meant as a joke, I don't think will be coming

over to my house anymore.

[Guest guest]

Wow, those Axe body spray commercials really make it seem like the ultimate

aphrodisiac... but instead makes cats barf??? I guess I'll give that brand " a

miss! " LOL

Sorry you had to go through that!

I too am disappointed that the EOH movie has dropped below radar. I have been

meaning

to ask D.K. if it's been dropped, entirely.

As for EOHarm being renamed/repurposed... don't be angry. I think Lenny's vision

is

correct in that regard... there is so much more to our children's regressions

than JUST

thimerosal. The live viruses... and aluminum... both are big additional factors.

And we're

still just learning more about what makes this nation's vaccine program

dangerous for our

kids... Not to say that vaccines in and of themselves are a bad thing... but

that this

pediatric vaccine program that has been hurting our children needs major

reform... and a

lot of families need major help and major retribution!

>

> My first reaction on discovering that the EOH newsgroup has been

> renamed from Evidence of Harm to Environment of Harm was anger.

> Probably I would not have been so angry had I not noticed a few weeks

> ago that the Participant Productions website had taken down any

> mention of Evidence of Harm, the movie. When I try to contact them or

> Kirby thru their websites, I get no reply.

>

> Perhaps I should take advantage of the name change however to speak

> about an incident that would have been off topic a while back, but I

> guess isn't, now.

>

> On Friday my son had some friends sleeping over. One of them was a boy

> who had never been here at our home before, although my son had gotten

> together with him at another friend's house. Apparently my basement

> smelled a bit musty for his liking, and he decided that it would be

> hilariously funny to fix the situation by spraying Axe deodorant all

> over the place. Accounts of the amount vary depending on which child

> is telling the story, from " a few sprays " , to " about a half of a can " .

> My house smelled, afterward, like it was probably closer to the later.

>

> I assumed that it was the perfume in the stuff that was making me sick

> on Friday night when it was first sprayed. Now I'm wondering if it's

> got to do with the other ingredients as well. I don't know what is in

> that stuff but I understand most spray deodorants have aluminum in them.

>

> My son went thru all of the stuff on the shelves down there and dusted

> it all off and then wiped down all of the shelves and vacuumed. But

> there is only so much I can do with the train layout that I've worked

> on over the last few years. It's a bit fragile to try to vacuum

> thoroughly.

>

> Now I've got two kids home sick, and a cat that's barfing. Although

> it's not unusual for the cat to be barfing. I just have always assumed

> that that is because of the pet food.

>

> The smell was intolerable in the basement, where there are no windows.

> It was intolerable in the family room. I was able to open windows

> there and set up fans but I don't know how many weeks it will take for

> the odor to dissipate from the carpet and the upholstery. I did have

> my son sprinkle a generous amount of baking soda on everything and let

> that set awhile before he vacuumed. It seemed to help somewhat in the

> family room, but little in the basement. At any rate, while baking

> soda might help get rid of the odor, I doubt it does much for the

> aluminum.

>

> I feel like I'm living in a toxic waste dump.

>

> Although it was meant as a joke, I don't think will be coming

> over to my house anymore.

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding the name change; it will be allright. When the word "Harm" is removed maybe then I will unsubscribe. The book EOH is the beginning, thank you Mr. Kirby. Now who will join to help "write" the next chapters?

EOHarm From: erik@...Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:03:07 +0000Subject: Re: Environment of Harm?

Wow, those Axe body spray commercials really make it seem like the ultimate aphrodisiac... but instead makes cats barf??? I guess I'll give that brand "a miss!" LOLSorry you had to go through that!I too am disappointed that the EOH movie has dropped below radar. I have been meaning to ask D.K. if it's been dropped, entirely.As for EOHarm being renamed/repurposed... don't be angry. I think Lenny's vision is correct in that regard... there is so much more to our children's regressions than JUST thimerosal. The live viruses... and aluminum... both are big additional factors. And we're still just learning more about what makes this nation's vaccine program dangerous for our kids... Not to say that vaccines in and of themselves are a bad thing... but that this pediatric vaccine program that has been hurting our children needs major reform... and a lot of families need major help and major retribution!>> My first reaction on discovering that the EOH newsgroup has been> renamed from Evidence of Harm to Environment of Harm was anger.> Probably I would not have been so angry had I not noticed a few weeks> ago that the Participant Productions website had taken down any> mention of Evidence of Harm, the movie. When I try to contact them or> Kirby thru their websites, I get no reply. > > Perhaps I should take advantage of the name change however to speak> about an incident that would have been off topic a while back, but I> guess isn't, now. > > On Friday my son had some friends sleeping over. One of them was a boy> who had never been here at our home before, although my son had gotten> together with him at another friend's house. Apparently my basement> smelled a bit musty for his liking, and he decided that it would be> hilariously funny to fix the situation by spraying Axe deodorant all> over the place. Accounts of the amount vary depending on which child> is telling the story, from "a few sprays", to "about a half of a can".> My house smelled, afterward, like it was probably closer to the later. > > I assumed that it was the perfume in the stuff that was making me sick> on Friday night when it was first sprayed. Now I'm wondering if it's> got to do with the other ingredients as well. I don't know what is in> that stuff but I understand most spray deodorants have aluminum in them. > > My son went thru all of the stuff on the shelves down there and dusted> it all off and then wiped down all of the shelves and vacuumed. But> there is only so much I can do with the train layout that I've worked> on over the last few years. It's a bit fragile to try to vacuum> thoroughly.> > Now I've got two kids home sick, and a cat that's barfing. Although> it's not unusual for the cat to be barfing. I just have always assumed> that that is because of the pet food. > > The smell was intolerable in the basement, where there are no windows.> It was intolerable in the family room. I was able to open windows> there and set up fans but I don't know how many weeks it will take for> the odor to dissipate from the carpet and the upholstery. I did have> my son sprinkle a generous amount of baking soda on everything and let> that set awhile before he vacuumed. It seemed to help somewhat in the> family room, but little in the basement. At any rate, while baking> soda might help get rid of the odor, I doubt it does much for the> aluminum. > > I feel like I'm living in a toxic waste dump. > > Although it was meant as a joke, I don't think will be coming> over to my house anymore.> Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last. Get it now!

[Guest guest]

I cannot have anything in my house with artificial

scent anymore. The last straw was visiting my Grandmother who was, per

usual, wearing a ton of perfume and then I went into her house for my child to

use the bathroom and the entire place smelled like a bottle of flowery glade bathroom

odor spray. I thought I would die, the smell got into every pore of my

body. Both my daughter and I were sick for 3 days and we didn’t

stay longer than the potty trip. I used to live with her during college

and it would bother me then but it’s gotten tremendously worse.

Either the ingredients are more toxic than they used to be or I’m just

more toxic. I even feel nauseous when I see those stupid scented candle

commercials. I hope you are able to get rid of the smell quickly!!! Good

luck,

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of nooogetta

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007

7:49 AM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Environment

of Harm?

My first reaction on discovering that the EOH

newsgroup has been

renamed from Evidence of Harm to Environment of Harm was anger.

Probably I would not have been so angry had I not noticed a few weeks

ago that the Participant Productions website had taken down any

mention of Evidence of Harm, the movie. When I try to contact them or

Kirby thru their websites, I get no reply.

Perhaps I should take advantage of the name change however to speak

about an incident that would have been off topic a while back, but I

guess isn't, now.

On Friday my son had some friends sleeping over. One of them was a boy

who had never been here at our home before, although my son had gotten

together with him at another friend's house. Apparently my basement

smelled a bit musty for his liking, and he decided that it would be

hilariously funny to fix the situation by spraying Axe deodorant all

over the place. Accounts of the amount vary depending on which child

is telling the story, from " a few sprays " , to " about a half of a

can " .

My house smelled, afterward, like it was probably closer to the later.

I assumed that it was the perfume in the stuff that was making me sick

on Friday night when it was first sprayed. Now I'm wondering if it's

got to do with the other ingredients as well. I don't know what is in

that stuff but I understand most spray deodorants have aluminum in them.

My son went thru all of the stuff on the shelves down there and dusted

it all off and then wiped down all of the shelves and vacuumed. But

there is only so much I can do with the train layout that I've worked

on over the last few years. It's a bit fragile to try to vacuum

thoroughly.

Now I've got two kids home sick, and a cat that's barfing. Although

it's not unusual for the cat to be barfing. I just have always assumed

that that is because of the pet food.

The smell was intolerable in the basement, where there are no windows.

It was intolerable in the family room. I was able to open windows

there and set up fans but I don't know how many weeks it will take for

the odor to dissipate from the carpet and the upholstery. I did have

my son sprinkle a generous amount of baking soda on everything and let

that set awhile before he vacuumed. It seemed to help somewhat in the

family room, but little in the basement. At any rate, while baking

soda might help get rid of the odor, I doubt it does much for the

aluminum.

I feel like I'm living in a toxic waste dump.

Although it was meant as a joke, I don't think will be coming

over to my house anymore.

[Guest guest]

The book " Evidence of Harm " does get into the MMR and other

environmental toxins, so that reason for changing the name of the

list surprised me.

Axe deoderant? Ugh.

I can't go near a Bed, Bath and Beyond at Christmas time because of

the scented candle displays and I used to go nuts when the crotchety

neighbors at our old rental would use scented drier sheets. The

neighbors' drier vent would blow the stench around the whole

building and it would seep into every crack and fill our apartment.

Our daughter, an infant at the time, would get bright red patches on

her face and I would get headaches and the heaves. We asked the

neighbors to stop and they went ballistic. Apparently people become

clinically addicted to the ether and other mind-altering, tolerance-

forming chemicals in that crap. That probably explains some people's

violent defense of those products.

White vinegar and Biokleen Bac-out (a yogurt-type enzyme stain and

odor remedy) are our staples for getting rid of most organically-

based funk and stains. I was surprised that Biokleen Bac-out got rid

of magic marker stains and cleaned the soot off the chimney, too, so

it appears to " eat " more than just organic matter. I don't know if

this would work for the industrial chemicals in Axe, though.

>

> I cannot have anything in my house with artificial scent anymore.

The last

> straw was visiting my Grandmother who was, per usual, wearing a

ton of

> perfume and then I went into her house for my child to use the

bathroom and

> the entire place smelled like a bottle of flowery glade bathroom

odor spray.

> I thought I would die, the smell got into every pore of my body.

Both my

> daughter and I were sick for 3 days and we didn't stay longer than

the potty

> trip. I used to live with her during college and it would bother

me then

> but it's gotten tremendously worse. Either the ingredients are

more toxic

> than they used to be or I'm just more toxic. I even feel nauseous

when I

> see those stupid scented candle commercials. I hope you are able

to get rid

> of the smell quickly!!! Good luck,

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

Behalf Of

> nooogetta

> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:49 AM

> EOHarm

> Subject: Re: Environment of Harm?

>

>

>

> My first reaction on discovering that the EOH newsgroup has been

> renamed from Evidence of Harm to Environment of Harm was anger.

> Probably I would not have been so angry had I not noticed a few

weeks

> ago that the Participant Productions website had taken down any

> mention of Evidence of Harm, the movie. When I try to contact them

or

> Kirby thru their websites, I get no reply.

>

> Perhaps I should take advantage of the name change however to speak

> about an incident that would have been off topic a while back, but

I

> guess isn't, now.

>

> On Friday my son had some friends sleeping over. One of them was a

boy

> who had never been here at our home before, although my son had

gotten

> together with him at another friend's house. Apparently my basement

> smelled a bit musty for his liking, and he decided that it would be

> hilariously funny to fix the situation by spraying Axe deodorant

all

> over the place. Accounts of the amount vary depending on which

child

> is telling the story, from " a few sprays " , to " about a half of a

can " .

> My house smelled, afterward, like it was probably closer to the

later.

>

> I assumed that it was the perfume in the stuff that was making me

sick

> on Friday night when it was first sprayed. Now I'm wondering if

it's

> got to do with the other ingredients as well. I don't know what is

in

> that stuff but I understand most spray deodorants have aluminum in

them.

>

> My son went thru all of the stuff on the shelves down there and

dusted

> it all off and then wiped down all of the shelves and vacuumed. But

> there is only so much I can do with the train layout that I've

worked

> on over the last few years. It's a bit fragile to try to vacuum

> thoroughly.

>

> Now I've got two kids home sick, and a cat that's barfing. Although

> it's not unusual for the cat to be barfing. I just have always

assumed

> that that is because of the pet food.

>

> The smell was intolerable in the basement, where there are no

windows.

> It was intolerable in the family room. I was able to open windows

> there and set up fans but I don't know how many weeks it will take

for

> the odor to dissipate from the carpet and the upholstery. I did

have

> my son sprinkle a generous amount of baking soda on everything and

let

> that set awhile before he vacuumed. It seemed to help somewhat in

the

> family room, but little in the basement. At any rate, while baking

> soda might help get rid of the odor, I doubt it does much for the

> aluminum.

>

> I feel like I'm living in a toxic waste dump.

>

> Although it was meant as a joke, I don't think will be coming

> over to my house anymore.

>

[Guest guest]

Lenny,

You're absolutely correct. Every group needs to revisit it's vision and mission

from time to time to make sure that they still hold true. The focus hasn't

changed, merely expanded, and the titles, etc should reflect that broader

purpose.

Eichenberger

GOSCNA Human Resources

[Guest guest]

I wonder if the Environmental Working Group would be willing to run

the listserve (and if the list would be willing to be run by the EWG)?

Being that it's got " Environment " in the title now.

>

> Lenny,

> You're absolutely correct. Every group needs to revisit it's vision

and mission from time to time to make sure that they still hold true.

The focus hasn't changed, merely expanded, and the titles, etc should

reflect that broader purpose.

>

>

>

>

> Eichenberger

> GOSCNA Human Resources

>

[Guest guest]

I maybe wrong about this, but I feel Lenny is trying to send a message...we are the Environment of Harm. When we continue to not question things like the Enzi report and why there was an on-going push for a pharma friendly Senator to do an investigation WE have become the Environment of Harm. I can understand way back when this seemed like a good idea, but as time marched on it became obvious that this was not a good idea and I know some backed out of it, but others continued meeting with Enzi and pushed for it, why? And if this is your idea of advocacy, what in the heck will you do next?….ask the pharmaceutical companies for an investigation?

If ever anyone wonders why things move slowly for your child this is a good example of slowing everything down. Now for the most part those groups involved have done some pretty fantastic and amazing things for this movement, but my gut tells me that a few in these groups are dictating to the rest and the rest of them are probably not too pleased either and are too afraid to speak up.

Please spare me the lecture on not getting along...I get along fine with several in the participating groups and have expressed my sincere gratitude for what they have done, but I will speak up and ask questions especially after I have seen Lenny publicly ask for explanations and all we hear is silence.

I had the pleasure of presenting to a college policy class the other night (a request from a former professor). Prior to the class I explained to this former professor, who taught me Policy many moons ago, about the bizarre advocacy that goes on within our community. His response : many people just do not understand policy, how to make policy, etc and this can become a huge problem.

There are certainly many people within this community who understand how to organize: grassroots movement/making policy changes. However there are others I feel who do not understand this at all and this is becoming A HUGE PROBLEM which will directly impact all of our children. Time is precious and time is marching on while our children are getting older.

Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.

[Guest guest]

Thank you , for expressing these very valid sentiments. Okay: How do we understand policy affecting our children? How do parents of autistic children make policy? How can we work together effectively?AlisonEOHarm From: angelamedlin@...Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:40:55 +0000Subject: Re: Environment of Harm?

I maybe wrong about this, but I feel Lenny is trying to send a message...we are the Environment of Harm. When we continue to not question things like the Enzi report and why there was an on-going push for a pharma friendly Senator to do an investigation WE have become the Environment of Harm. I can understand way back when this seemed like a good idea, but as time marched on it became obvious that this was not a good idea and I know some backed out of it, but others continued meeting with Enzi and pushed for it, why? And if this is your idea of advocacy, what in the heck will you do next?….ask the pharmaceutical companies for an investigation?

If ever anyone wonders why things move slowly for your child this is a good example of slowing everything down. Now for the most part those groups involved have done some pretty fantastic and amazing things for this movement, but my gut tells me that a few in these groups are dictating to the rest and the rest of them are probably not too pleased either and are too afraid to speak up.

Please spare me the lecture on not getting along...I get along fine with several in the participating groups and have expressed my sincere gratitude for what they have done, but I will speak up and ask questions especially after I have seen Lenny publicly ask for explanations and all we hear is silence.

I had the pleasure of presenting to a college policy class the other night (a request from a former professor). Prior to the class I explained to this former professor, who taught me Policy many moons ago, about the bizarre advocacy that goes on within our community. His response : many people just do not understand policy, how to make policy, etc and this can become a huge problem.

There are certainly many people within this community who understand how to organize: grassroots movement/making policy changes. However there are others I feel who do not understand this at all and this is becoming A HUGE PROBLEM which will directly impact all of our children. Time is precious and time is marching on while our children are getting older.

Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.

Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble challenge with star power. Play Now!

[Guest guest]

Very well said , I hope others will not only recognize what you are saying

and

suggesting, but, will THINK and do what they know needs to be done. A few

organized

parents can create huge positive change. You have done it in North Carolina and

continue

to drive the agenda. What may not have clearly stated was for those who

do not

" understand policy " to " learn policy " or at least become engaged in policy. It

is not rocket

science and boils down to a no glamour, persistent effort, with no glory or

recognition. I

personally view it as 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. 90% of your success

is showing

up! No kidding! I really appreciate what you said and you nailed it saying

people are too

afraid to speak up. It is affecting our children negatively. I feel like I am

grossly offending

many when I have to say " If we don't ask and discuss the questions then we will

never

solve the issues we all care about " . For gods sake most 10 year olds can grasp

this

concept, yet, as and Lenny described the silence we know is hurting our

efforts and

ability to be effective. Thanks for showing some much needed leadership and

strait talk

that is desperately needed for many effective advocates to stay interested in

this list.

>

>

>

> I maybe wrong about this, but I feel Lenny is trying to send a

> message...we are the Environment of Harm. When we continue to not

> question things like the Enzi report and why there was an on-going push

> for a pharma friendly Senator to do an investigation WE have become the

> Environment of Harm. I can understand way back when this seemed like a

> good idea, but as time marched on it became obvious that this was not a

> good idea and I know some backed out of it, but others continued meeting

> with Enzi and pushed for it, why? And if this is your idea of

> advocacy, what in the heck will you do next?….ask the pharmaceutical

> companies for an investigation?

>

> If ever anyone wonders why things move slowly for your child this is a

> good example of slowing everything down. Now for the most part those

> groups involved have done some pretty fantastic and amazing things for

> this movement, but my gut tells me that a few in these groups are

> dictating to the rest and the rest of them are probably not too pleased

> either and are too afraid to speak up.

>

> Please spare me the lecture on not getting along...I get along fine with

> several in the participating groups and have expressed my sincere

> gratitude for what they have done, but I will speak up and ask

> questions especially after I have seen Lenny publicly ask for

> explanations and all we hear is silence.

>

> I had the pleasure of presenting to a college policy class the other

> night (a request from a former professor). Prior to the class I

> explained to this former professor, who taught me Policy many moons ago,

> about the bizarre advocacy that goes on within our community. His

> response : many people just do not understand policy, how to make

> policy, etc and this can become a huge problem.

>

> There are certainly many people within this community who understand how

> to organize: grassroots movement/making policy changes. However there

> are others I feel who do not understand this at all and this is becoming

> A HUGE PROBLEM which will directly impact all of our children. Time is

> precious and time is marching on while our children are getting older.

>

> Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and

> ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, I was just sitting here wondering where the outcry was. Remember back in the day when Frist tried to attach the lilly rider to the homeland security bill. Boy, did we see some action then. I just faxed Enzi a letter expressing my dismay with the report. Hopefully I am not the only one. Janeahs10402 <allprint@...> wrote: Very well said , I hope others will not only recognize what you are saying and suggesting, but, will THINK and do what they know needs to be done. A few organized

parents can create huge positive change. You have done it in North Carolina and continue to drive the agenda. What may not have clearly stated was for those who do not "understand policy" to "learn policy" or at least become engaged in policy. It is not rocket science and boils down to a no glamour, persistent effort, with no glory or recognition. I personally view it as 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. 90% of your success is showing up! No kidding! I really appreciate what you said and you nailed it saying people are too afraid to speak up. It is affecting our children negatively. I feel like I am grossly offending many when I have to say "If we don't ask and discuss the questions then we will never solve the issues we all care about". For gods sake most 10 year olds can grasp this concept, yet, as and Lenny described the silence we know is hurting our efforts and ability to be effective. Thanks for showing

some much needed leadership and strait talk that is desperately needed for many effective advocates to stay interested in this list. >> > > I maybe wrong about this, but I feel Lenny is trying to send a> message...we are the Environment of Harm. When we continue to not> question things like the Enzi report and why there was an on-going push> for a pharma friendly Senator to do an investigation WE have become the> Environment of Harm. I can understand way back when this seemed like a> good idea, but as time marched on it became obvious that this was not a> good idea and I know some backed out of it, but others continued meeting> with Enzi and pushed for it, why? And if this is your idea of> advocacy, what in the heck will you do

next?….ask the pharmaceutical> companies for an investigation?> > If ever anyone wonders why things move slowly for your child this is a> good example of slowing everything down. Now for the most part those> groups involved have done some pretty fantastic and amazing things for> this movement, but my gut tells me that a few in these groups are> dictating to the rest and the rest of them are probably not too pleased> either and are too afraid to speak up.> > Please spare me the lecture on not getting along...I get along fine with> several in the participating groups and have expressed my sincere> gratitude for what they have done, but I will speak up and ask> questions especially after I have seen Lenny publicly ask for> explanations and all we hear is silence.> > I had the pleasure of presenting to a college policy class the other> night (a request from a

former professor). Prior to the class I> explained to this former professor, who taught me Policy many moons ago,> about the bizarre advocacy that goes on within our community. His> response : many people just do not understand policy, how to make> policy, etc and this can become a huge problem.> > There are certainly many people within this community who understand how> to organize: grassroots movement/making policy changes. However there> are others I feel who do not understand this at all and this is becoming> A HUGE PROBLEM which will directly impact all of our children. Time is> precious and time is marching on while our children are getting older.> > Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and> ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.> > >

Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Guest guest]

,

The silence is still deafening. Perhaps we're all too busy screaming

at the bad actions of Autism Speaks to pay due attention to folks

closer to home.

Anyone going to the NAA Conference in Atlanta next month?

Lenny

.. . .

> Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and

> ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> You know, I was just sitting here wondering where the outcry was.

Remember back in the day when Frist tried to attach the lilly rider to

the homeland security bill. Boy, did we see some action then.

> I just faxed Enzi a letter expressing my dismay with the report.

Hopefully I am not the only one.

> Jane

Given that NAA has been a primary participant in the Enzi effort, you

would think that they would be leading the charge with action alerts

protesting this ugly betrayal of our children. Instead, they've said

nothing. Denial doesn't cure autism, we know that. It doesn't work

for flubbed politics, either. So, why all the silence? Is this how we

react when our children are raped? Pretend it didn't happen?

Lenny

" In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the

silence of our friends. "

- Luther King, Jr.

[Guest guest]

and Lenny, you hit the nail right on the head. I am still waiting for the

" details to

follow " that was promised. I think that if any org decides to take the helm on

an issue of

such importance to our childrens futures, they could at least consult closely

with the rest

of the community.

> . . .

> > Please stop being the Environment of Harm…stand up, speak up, and

> > ask question if you know in your gut something isn't right.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, a lot of people are silent if their children are raped.

Particularly if the culprit was known to the family, has power or

influence in the community and the family feels shame for misplacing

trust.

> >

> > You know, I was just sitting here wondering where the outcry was.

> Remember back in the day when Frist tried to attach the lilly

rider to

> the homeland security bill. Boy, did we see some action then.

> > I just faxed Enzi a letter expressing my dismay with the

report.

> Hopefully I am not the only one.

> > Jane

>

> Given that NAA has been a primary participant in the Enzi effort,

you

> would think that they would be leading the charge with action

alerts

> protesting this ugly betrayal of our children. Instead, they've

said

> nothing. Denial doesn't cure autism, we know that. It doesn't

work

> for flubbed politics, either. So, why all the silence? Is this

how we

> react when our children are raped? Pretend it didn't happen?

>

> Lenny

>

> " In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the

> silence of our friends. "

> - Luther King, Jr.

>

[Guest guest]

I think I have become a little more silent over time. Not

intentionally. I think its terribly disheartening when I stumble onto

some OTHER blogs....2 in particular that are FILLED with anger

towards EOHarm list where they accuse and quote our list leader out

of context, call names, twist us into parents who don't really care

about our children, and twist and misinterpret the omnibus

proceeding. I have to wonder what the payoff is for such harsh words.

In my entire life I have never had to experience such hateful

opposition. 5 years later I feel like I am in the midst of a civil

war.It is very emotionally draining to defend something of such a

political nature. I need majority of my time and energy to devote to

my vaccine injured child.....if you know what I mean.

> > >

> > > You know, I was just sitting here wondering where the outcry

was.

> > Remember back in the day when Frist tried to attach the lilly

> rider to

> > the homeland security bill. Boy, did we see some action then.

> > > I just faxed Enzi a letter expressing my dismay with the

> report.

> > Hopefully I am not the only one.

> > > Jane

> >

> > Given that NAA has been a primary participant in the Enzi effort,

> you

> > would think that they would be leading the charge with action

> alerts

> > protesting this ugly betrayal of our children. Instead, they've

> said

> > nothing. Denial doesn't cure autism, we know that. It doesn't

> work

> > for flubbed politics, either. So, why all the silence? Is this

> how we

> > react when our children are raped? Pretend it didn't happen?

> >

> > Lenny

> >

> > " In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but

the

> > silence of our friends. "

> > - Luther King, Jr.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> some OTHER blogs....2 in particular that are FILLED with anger

> towards EOHarm list where they accuse and quote our list leader out

> of context, call names, twist us into parents who don't really care

> about our children, and twist and misinterpret the omnibus

> proceeding. I have to wonder what the payoff is for such harsh words.

Attention. Any attention, good or bad. These very small number of

noisy people have no power except what you give to them in your

reactions. I see mental illness there, personality disorders, etc. --

welcome to the " new autism " . You may have heard the expression,

" never argue with a drunk " or ND skinheads.

> In my entire life I have never had to experience such hateful

> opposition.

70 years ago read Nazi hate propaganda against the Jews.

Today read anti-infidel hate propaganda by militant Islamics.

My point is that the ND skinheads are the least of our problems. They

have no power over what happens to our children other than to distract

us with provocation.

You want disheartening? How about:

1. The Pretending to Combat Autism Act (vaccine research neutered and

unfunded).

2. Enzi HELP Committee report

3. The next IOM report about to come out any day now reaffirming the

last first one calling for no vaccine research.

No ND skinheads did any of the above. This, from our friends. (I am

sure I missed an item or two.)

Lenny

[Guest guest]

You are RIGHT Lenny. Though I grow weary at times I will NOT give up

the fight.

>

> > some OTHER blogs....2 in particular that are FILLED with anger

> > towards EOHarm list where they accuse and quote our list leader

out

> > of context, call names, twist us into parents who don't really

care

> > about our children, and twist and misinterpret the omnibus

> > proceeding. I have to wonder what the payoff is for such harsh

words.

>

> Attention. Any attention, good or bad. These very small number of

> noisy people have no power except what you give to them in your

> reactions. I see mental illness there, personality disorders,

etc. --

> welcome to the " new autism " . You may have heard the expression,

> " never argue with a drunk " or ND skinheads.

>

> > In my entire life I have never had to experience such hateful

> > opposition.

>

> 70 years ago read Nazi hate propaganda against the Jews.

> Today read anti-infidel hate propaganda by militant Islamics.

>

> My point is that the ND skinheads are the least of our problems.

They

> have no power over what happens to our children other than to

distract

> us with provocation.

>

> You want disheartening? How about:

> 1. The Pretending to Combat Autism Act (vaccine research neutered

and

> unfunded).

> 2. Enzi HELP Committee report

> 3. The next IOM report about to come out any day now reaffirming the

> last first one calling for no vaccine research.

>

> No ND skinheads did any of the above. This, from our friends. (I am

> sure I missed an item or two.)

>

> Lenny

>

[Guest guest]

Study: Disabled less likely to be online

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2007-10-08-disabled-online_N.htm

By Anick Jesdanun, Associated Press

NEW YORK — Americans with disabilities and other chronic conditions are less likely to use the Internet, but those who are online are among the most avid consumers of health-related information, a new study finds.

~~~~~~~

Well it looks like it's true then that the NDers really do not have disabilities, and they sure in heck aren't consumers of health-related information.

> > > some OTHER blogs....2 in particular that are FILLED with anger > > towards EOHarm list where they accuse and quote our list leader out > > of context, call names, twist us into parents who don't really care > > about our children, and twist and misinterpret the omnibus > > proceeding. I have to wonder what the payoff is for such harsh words. > > Attention. Any attention, good or bad. These very small number of> noisy people have no power except what you give to them in your> reactions. I see mental illness there, personality disorders, etc. --> welcome to the "new autism". You may have heard the expression,> "never argue with a drunk" or ND skinheads. > > > In my entire life I have never had to experience such hateful > > opposition. > > 70 years ago read Nazi hate propaganda against the Jews.> Today read anti-infidel hate propaganda by militant Islamics.> > My point is that the ND skinheads are the least of our problems. They> have no power over what happens to our children other than to distract> us with provocation.> > You want disheartening? How about:> 1. The Pretending to Combat Autism Act (vaccine research neutered and> unfunded).> 2. Enzi HELP Committee report> 3. The next IOM report about to come out any day now reaffirming the> last first one calling for no vaccine research.> > No ND skinheads did any of the above. This, from our friends. (I am> sure I missed an item or two.)> > Lenny>

[Guest guest]

Some things the ND's have accomplished is to corrupt impressionable,

ASD youths along with some naive, uneducated parents. The #1 search

that brings people to my blog is Baggs. I'm glad I have a

large volume of material that exposes her as a fraud. She put their

deranged message out on CNN and is probably the most

famous " autistic " person in the world. Neurodiversity has worked

hard to accomplish this. I think it's worthwhile to have information

available to counter the lies. Those lies reinforce the lies told by

doctors. Personally, it is not going to affect my son. It may

affect those who just received a diagnosis and know what I knew 10

years ago about autism, Rainman. Those lies must be opposed in

public as strongly as possible.

ND's have corrupted Autism Speaks and the ASA. You can not discuss

autism in any open forum without having to deal with these

psychopaths. For the sake of everyone who will become " blessed with

the joy of autism " and doesn't know a damn thing about it, I would

hate for those poor parents to obtain their education from Kathleen

Seidel, Baggs or Leitch. I wish I could agree with you

that these scumbags can be ignored.

>

> > some OTHER blogs....2 in particular that are FILLED with anger

> > towards EOHarm list where they accuse and quote our list leader

out

> > of context, call names, twist us into parents who don't really

care

> > about our children, and twist and misinterpret the omnibus

> > proceeding. I have to wonder what the payoff is for such harsh

words.

>

> Attention. Any attention, good or bad. These very small number of

> noisy people have no power except what you give to them in your

> reactions. I see mental illness there, personality disorders,

etc. --

> welcome to the " new autism " . You may have heard the expression,

> " never argue with a drunk " or ND skinheads.

>

> > In my entire life I have never had to experience such hateful

> > opposition.

>

> 70 years ago read Nazi hate propaganda against the Jews.

> Today read anti-infidel hate propaganda by militant Islamics.

>

> My point is that the ND skinheads are the least of our problems.

They

> have no power over what happens to our children other than to

distract

> us with provocation.

>

> You want disheartening? How about:

> 1. The Pretending to Combat Autism Act (vaccine research neutered

and

> unfunded).

> 2. Enzi HELP Committee report

> 3. The next IOM report about to come out any day now reaffirming the

> last first one calling for no vaccine research.

>

> No ND skinheads did any of the above. This, from our friends. (I am

> sure I missed an item or two.)

>

> Lenny

>