Re: In support of DAN docs

September 27, 2007

hi..doctor... so glad to hear this.. I am seeing dr. Prociuk (sorry if I mispelled it) in west chester, pa.. he is charging 250 dollars for an hour... I am very anxious in seeing him... LiaSee what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

September 27, 2007

Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

to do with our lousy health care system. It's greed.

>

> In every state you will find good doctors and those that are not

so good. That is probably true of DAN docs too. Let's face it-

doctors are expensive as are hospitals-it doesn't apply to only the

DAN docs. Some might take advantaage of you, others will not.

There are DANS that are overworked and very dedicated because they

don't want to turn anyone down. Many pay a lot for liability

insurance-have huge office staffs--

> they don't take insurance because VERY often insurance won't pay

the bills.

> This is the reason there is so much wrong with our health care

system-and so much needs to be changed. In reference to our kids-

they should all be covered for their medical expenses-we know there

is a bias against them. I have no insurance because I cannot afford

to pay my grandson's medical expenses and mine. Believe me-if I

should come down with cancer tomorrow-there is not a hospital in my

area that would take me.

> I do remember years ago -we went to see Amy Holmes in La. when

she had a practice-we had no money to pay and she had a foundation

set up that helped us cover the expenses.

> It does happen.

> if you have a complaint about medical expenses for your kids-

take it up with your state legislature, your governor, get involved--

-the whole Federal Health System needs total revamping as do the

insurance compnaies---this is not a DAN doc problem-this is a

problem that encompasses our whole system------my 2 cents.

> Maurine

> PS the fat lady has sung.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your

pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

>

September 27, 2007

I agree. Like I said, there are some that will take huge advantage of you and why you need to be careful of who you go to. The other problem is there just aren't enuf DAN docs around to serve the tens of thousands of children in need(apart from the money issue). maurinemarkautismcharge <mark.connolly.cgb5@...> wrote: Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN! Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they are charging $500 dollars or more

as a result from the McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing to do with our lousy health care system. It's greed.>> In every state you will find good doctors and those that are not so good. That is probably true of DAN docs too. Let's face it-doctors are expensive as are hospitals-it doesn't apply to only the DAN docs. Some might take advantaage of you, others will not. There are DANS that are overworked and very dedicated because they don't want to turn anyone down. Many pay a lot for liability insurance-have huge office staffs--> they don't take insurance because VERY often insurance won't pay the bills.> This is the reason there is so much wrong with our health care system-and so much needs to be changed. In reference to our

kids-they should all be covered for their medical expenses-we know there is a bias against them. I have no insurance because I cannot afford to pay my grandson's medical expenses and mine. Believe me-if I should come down with cancer tomorrow-there is not a hospital in my area that would take me.> I do remember years ago -we went to see Amy Holmes in La. when she had a practice-we had no money to pay and she had a foundation set up that helped us cover the expenses.> It does happen.> if you have a complaint about medical expenses for your kids-take it up with your state legislature, your governor, get involved---the whole Federal Health System needs total revamping as do the insurance compnaies---this is not a DAN doc problem-this is a problem that encompasses our whole system------my 2 cents.> Maurine> PS the fat lady has sung.> > >

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September 27, 2007

>

> Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

Are they? Who?

I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

to be... $960 an hour?

McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

Jen

September 27, 2007

I spend an hour with my families. I sometimes collect $250 on a first appointment only - often much less. Followup appoints are below $100...often way below.

I want to get kids into treatment not anoint them as cash cows.KP Stoller, MDPresident, International Hyperbaric Medical AssocMedical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexicowww.hbotnm.com-- "cjbate" <cjbate@...> wrote:

>> Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN! > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing Are they? Who? I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80 from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid, takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out to be... $960 an hour? McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing, so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment. With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.Jen

_____________________________________________________________Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

September 27, 2007

Dear Dr Stoller,

Someone told me you accept insurance. Is that true? $250.00 per hour is a

reasonable

fee. I think you are a person of genuine integrity and deserve to make a

comparable

salary for your profession. Others charge $750 for a one hour consult with very

little

overhead. As Markautismcharge said " greed " plain for all to see. I know it

will take some

real courage and soul searching for many families to see this because we

appreciate these

doctors are treating our kids and identifying their medical issues. I see many

problems in

the DAN movement that do a lot of long term harm. I am not going to list all of

them, but,

the insurance issue, in my view, centers around ethics and profits.

Many view the current DAN model is discrimination based upon the ability to pay

in order

to maximize profits. They can spin it and help a couple families all they want

for some PR

and some genuine purposes, but, lets face it, what percentage of poor families

with a ASD

child get biomedical interventions? <.01%. We do not treat autism! we treat the

ailments

which can be coded and billed through insurance for the problems our kids face.

This is

the only way it can be achieved currently with insurance and it is not changing

anytime

soon. While we understand all labs, HBOT(more publishing is needed/ new) and

supplements cannot be covered, the DAN folks have not made a credible argument

for not

accepting insurance for an extended office visit or prescribing optional

mainline labs

covered by insurance. To illustrate this two of my sons doctors are NOT DAN!

Doctors but

they are experts who we all know and publish their work frequently. I have

racked up over

$20,000 in treatment so far in 2007, fully covered, including an out of state

medicaid

waiver that picked up the remaining 20% which was $2000.00. We passed

legislation in

NY mandating insurance companies cannot discriminate treating these kids because

they

have ASD. Not one DAN, to the best of my knowledge, accepts insurance in NY.

The

HMO's had to remove the discriminatory language from their published material.

Sadly we

slam mainline doctors with a broad brush all the time who work more hours, treat

more

patients and make less money than DAN's. Most mainline doctors have no problem

prescribing a porphryins test or immunology and allergy panels though LabCorp.

100%

covered by insurance. What does it cost a Doctors office to file 10-15 patients

insurance

claims per day? I would guess based on my discussions with medical office

managers and

accountants it is a direct labor cost of about $100.00. Do you feel it is

ethical for the

treating doctor to insist it is the parents job to insure medical documents are

managed

and filed properly?

As a whole DAN cannot continue to discriminate based on the ability to pay.

When will

ALL children with autism in the US be entitled to treatment by DAN MD's? I

think it will

take much more peer reviewed publishing. DAN is the perceived leader in the

medical

treatment of autism and my child has benefited from biomedical interventions. I

hope we

all realize that our kids immunology, GI, toxicology, viral and fungal issues

can be

prescribed, coded and treated with mainstream medicine making a profit and

insurance

paying for it. I find it disturbing to tell a single mom with two children on

public

assistance that her kids will continue to suffer in pain because the DAN doctor

accepts

cash only and that the initial set of esoteric labs(not covered) will exceed

thousands of

dollars. I hope you will attend the the think tank where insurance will be

discussed. I love

your comment of " anointing our kids as cash cows " and know you are not one of

those

people. I hope you will please articulate to this list what you see as the

challenges to

insurance coverage for the coding for extended office visits and why you cannot

reschedule the patient back multiple times and bill again. The medical and

insurance

industries are a mess, but, other highly respected doctors that specialize in

treating these

children are doing it. They just happen not to be DAN doctors. I think the

parents and

DAN need to have a respectful and candid discussion on this subject.

Sincerely,

>

> >

> > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

>

> Are they? Who?

>

> I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

> from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

> takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

> to be... $960 an hour?

>

> McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

> so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

> With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

>

> Jen

>

> _____________________________________________________________

> Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

> http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Dr. Stoller,

I forgot to say " thank you " for being one of the few MD's on this list willing

to engage the

parents and advocates. I am sure many lurk, but, I wanted to say thanks for

being

proactive and engaging us with some candid discussions in helping our kids.

>

> >

> > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

>

> Are they? Who?

>

> I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

> from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

> takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

> to be... $960 an hour?

>

> McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

> so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

> With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

>

> Jen

>

> _____________________________________________________________

> Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

> http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

>

September 28, 2007

I don't think the problem lies totally with the DAN doctors. There is a major problem with insurance comapnies for years not accepting autism as a medical disease and therefore, not covering these children. A few years back when my daughter worked for a teaching medical college(MCG) there was a clause in her insurance policy that stated that there was no coverage for any autism treatments. Complete and total discrimination. More than changing the DAN doctors-we need to change the public image of autism as it's a medical disease and to force insurance companies in each statae to pay for their treatments-and that inlcudes medicaid.ahs10402 <allprint@...> wrote: Dear Dr Stoller,Someone told me you accept insurance. Is that true? $250.00 per hour is a reasonable fee. I think you are a person of genuine integrity and deserve to make a comparable salary for your profession. Others charge $750 for a one hour consult with very little overhead. As Markautismcharge said "greed" plain for all to see. I know it will take some real courage and soul searching for many families to see this because we appreciate these doctors are treating our kids and identifying their medical issues. I see many problems in the DAN movement that do a lot of long term harm. I am not going to list all of them, but, the insurance issue, in my view, centers around ethics and profits. Many view the current DAN model is discrimination based upon the ability to pay in

order to maximize profits. They can spin it and help a couple families all they want for some PR and some genuine purposes, but, lets face it, what percentage of poor families with a ASD child get biomedical interventions? <.01%. We do not treat autism! we treat the ailments which can be coded and billed through insurance for the problems our kids face. This is the only way it can be achieved currently with insurance and it is not changing anytime soon. While we understand all labs, HBOT(more publishing is needed/ new) and supplements cannot be covered, the DAN folks have not made a credible argument for not accepting insurance for an extended office visit or prescribing optional mainline labs covered by insurance. To illustrate this two of my sons doctors are NOT DAN! Doctors but they are experts who we all know and publish their work frequently. I have racked up over $20,000 in treatment so far in 2007, fully covered,

including an out of state medicaid waiver that picked up the remaining 20% which was $2000.00. We passed legislation in NY mandating insurance companies cannot discriminate treating these kids because they have ASD. Not one DAN, to the best of my knowledge, accepts insurance in NY. The HMO's had to remove the discriminatory language from their published material. Sadly we slam mainline doctors with a broad brush all the time who work more hours, treat more patients and make less money than DAN's. Most mainline doctors have no problem prescribing a porphryins test or immunology and allergy panels though LabCorp. 100% covered by insurance. What does it cost a Doctors office to file 10-15 patients insurance claims per day? I would guess based on my discussions with medical office managers and accountants it is a direct labor cost of about $100.00. Do you feel it is ethical for the treating doctor to insist it is the parents job to

insure medical documents are managed and filed properly? As a whole DAN cannot continue to discriminate based on the ability to pay. When will ALL children with autism in the US be entitled to treatment by DAN MD's? I think it will take much more peer reviewed publishing. DAN is the perceived leader in the medical treatment of autism and my child has benefited from biomedical interventions. I hope we all realize that our kids immunology, GI, toxicology, viral and fungal issues can be prescribed, coded and treated with mainstream medicine making a profit and insurance paying for it. I find it disturbing to tell a single mom with two children on public assistance that her kids will continue to suffer in pain because the DAN doctor accepts cash only and that the initial set of esoteric labs(not covered) will exceed thousands of dollars. I hope you will attend the the think tank where insurance will be discussed. I love your

comment of "anointing our kids as cash cows" and know you are not one of those people. I hope you will please articulate to this list what you see as the challenges to insurance coverage for the coding for extended office visits and why you cannot reschedule the patient back multiple times and bill again. The medical and insurance industries are a mess, but, other highly respected doctors that specialize in treating these children are doing it. They just happen not to be DAN doctors. I think the parents and DAN need to have a respectful and candid discussion on this subject. Sincerely, > > >> > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN! > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing > > Are they? Who? > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80 > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid, > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out > to be... $960 an hour? > > McCarthy made several

challenges on Larry King to the > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing, > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment. > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.> > Jen> > > > __________________________________________________________> Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!> http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/>

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September 28, 2007

I think this insurance issue could be 's initial appearance before Congress. Let's flood her with emails.RoxMaurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote: I don't think the problem lies totally with the DAN doctors. There is a major problem with insurance comapnies for years not accepting autism as a medical disease and therefore, not covering these children. A few years back when my daughter worked for a teaching medical college(MCG) there was a clause in her insurance policy that stated that there was no coverage

for any autism treatments. Complete and total discrimination. More than changing the DAN doctors-we need to change the public image of autism as it's a medical disease and to force insurance companies in each statae to pay for their treatments-and that inlcudes medicaid.ahs10402 <allprintnycap (DOT) rr.com> wrote: Dear Dr Stoller,Someone told me you accept insurance. Is that true? $250.00 per hour is a reasonable fee. I think you are a person of genuine integrity and deserve to make a comparable salary for your profession. Others charge $750 for a one hour consult with very little overhead. As Markautismcharge said "greed" plain for all to see. I know it will take some real courage and soul searching for many families to see this because we appreciate these doctors are treating

our kids and identifying their medical issues. I see many problems in the DAN movement that do a lot of long term harm. I am not going to list all of them, but, the insurance issue, in my view, centers around ethics and profits. Many view the current DAN model is discrimination based upon the ability to pay in order to maximize profits. They can spin it and help a couple families all they want for some PR and some genuine purposes, but, lets face it, what percentage of poor families with a ASD child get biomedical interventions? <.01%. We do not treat autism! we treat the ailments which can be coded and billed through insurance for the problems our kids face. This is the only way it can be achieved currently with insurance and it is not changing anytime soon. While we understand all labs, HBOT(more publishing is needed/ new) and supplements cannot be covered, the DAN folks have not made a credible argument for not

accepting insurance for an extended office visit or prescribing optional mainline labs covered by insurance. To illustrate this two of my sons doctors are NOT DAN! Doctors but they are experts who we all know and publish their work frequently. I have racked up over $20,000 in treatment so far in 2007, fully covered, including an out of state medicaid waiver that picked up the remaining 20% which was $2000.00. We passed legislation in NY mandating insurance companies cannot discriminate treating these kids because they have ASD. Not one DAN, to the best of my knowledge, accepts insurance in NY. The HMO's had to remove the discriminatory language from their published material. Sadly we slam mainline doctors with a broad brush all the time who work more hours, treat more patients and make less money than DAN's. Most mainline doctors have no problem prescribing a porphryins test or immunology and allergy panels though LabCorp. 100%

covered by insurance. What does it cost a Doctors office to file 10-15 patients insurance claims per day? I would guess based on my discussions with medical office managers and accountants it is a direct labor cost of about $100.00. Do you feel it is ethical for the treating doctor to insist it is the parents job to insure medical documents are managed and filed properly? As a whole DAN cannot continue to discriminate based on the ability to pay. When will ALL children with autism in the US be entitled to treatment by DAN MD's? I think it will take much more peer reviewed publishing. DAN is the perceived leader in the medical treatment of autism and my child has benefited from biomedical interventions. I hope we all realize that our kids immunology, GI, toxicology, viral and fungal issues can be prescribed, coded and treated with mainstream medicine making a profit and insurance paying for it. I find it disturbing to

tell a single mom with two children on public assistance that her kids will continue to suffer in pain because the DAN doctor accepts cash only and that the initial set of esoteric labs(not covered) will exceed thousands of dollars. I hope you will attend the the think tank where insurance will be discussed. I love your comment of "anointing our kids as cash cows" and know you are not one of those people. I hope you will please articulate to this list what you see as the challenges to insurance coverage for the coding for extended office visits and why you cannot reschedule the patient back multiple times and bill again. The medical and insurance industries are a mess, but, other highly respected doctors that specialize in treating these children are doing it. They just happen not to be DAN doctors. I think the parents and DAN need to have a respectful and candid discussion on this subject. Sincerely,

> > >> > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN! > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing > > Are

they? Who? > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80 > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid, > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out > to be... $960 an hour? > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing, > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment. > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.> > Jen> > > > __________________________________________________________> Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!> http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

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September 28, 2007

Dr. Lynne Meilke raised her prices right after appearing on national television. She does not accept insurance. I stopped my son's appointment and several other friends cancelled theirs. So instead I got the support of my son's regualr ped, she orders the tests to make sure he is doing well and has been great about learning the chelating protocol (Cuttler), So other than the supps my insurance pays for the rest. Now she has several more chelating/biomed kids that she is helping. So I really didn't need a DAN to begin with. For a lot of DANs it really is about the money.

Kathleen The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before.- *************************************************************************

Are they? Who? I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80 from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid, takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out to be... $960 an hour? McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing, so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment. With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.Jen

September 28, 2007

Hi Maureen,

There is a lot of denial from well intentioned parents who are pro-biomedical

regarding DAN practices and particularly insurance and over billing from some.

We simply

have not published enough in the medical literature to have this accepted as

mainstream.

You cannot present a " got better/got worse parent accounts " and expect that it

is accepted

medical science. While we have some peer reviewed papers, many more are needed.

In the mean time we do not treat autism on paper medically, but, we do and can

treat

with many of the biomedical interventions fully covered by insurance. Maureen

you

mentioned complete and total discrimination, this is what I see from DAN is this

what you

were referring to? This is why DAN has some questions to answer to the

community.

These clauses in insurance you mentioned were overturned in the NY autism

insurance bill

by framing the legislation as a civil rights issue instead of a direct insurance

mandate.

Most important we changed the definition from mental health to neorobiological.

Direct

insurance mandates are nearly impossible regardless of which parties are in

power. I

would suggest any parent struggling financially to treat their child medically

to try and

persuade their insurance accepting doctor. It is not 100% ineffective, some

listen and will

work with you in some areas. Many will pull the labs you request instead of

having a few

thousand in expenses after 2 hours and some blood, stool and urine samples. Or

you

could buy a PPO insurance plan for the child for a couple hundred per month.

Then go get

your kids upper and lower GI issues dealt with by the best Dr. Buie and the

Geiers for a

insurance covered phone consult and a extensive set of labs. Or you can pay some

one like

Dr Krigsman for the GI and a DAN $20,000 out of pocket. I am not singling out

Dr.

Krigsman, but him and Buie do the same thing and have equal amounts of

credibility. It's

your choice, your the parent, advocate, you are responsible. This is a

reasonable short

term approach. I can't just bitch without offering solutions. You will only

force the

insurance companies when you have more peer reviewed papers on the biomedical

interventions you want. Much of what you consider biomedical is mainstream

medicine

and already covered by insurance. I hope this helps in framing the issue of what

the

challenges ahead are for ALL these kids to get treated and the proactive parents

to remain

financially solvent.

> >

> > >

> > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

> >

> > Are they? Who?

> >

> > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

> > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

> > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

> > to be... $960 an hour?

> >

> > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

> > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

> > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> >

> > Jen

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

> > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings,

and more!

>

September 28, 2007

This is the kind of dialogue and information people need to be sharing and

talking about. Obviously you NYers have really stuck on this for a while

and are still on it. I see a few issues here:

a. published research from DAN!s How to get the big NIH funding?

b. all treatment options (esp. biomedical) available for all children

c. Get the damn DSMV changed. (obviously cannot be state effort, must be

federal)

d. DAN!-trained peds. in every practice.

Mr. - thank you.

>From: " ahs10402 " <allprint@...>

>Reply-EOHarm

>EOHarm

>Subject: Re: In support of DAN docs

>Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:07:33 -0000

>

>Hi Maureen,

>

>There is a lot of denial from well intentioned parents who are

>pro-biomedical

>regarding DAN practices and particularly insurance and over billing from

>some. We simply

>have not published enough in the medical literature to have this accepted

>as mainstream.

>You cannot present a " got better/got worse parent accounts " and expect that

>it is accepted

>medical science. While we have some peer reviewed papers, many more are

>needed.

>In the mean time we do not treat autism on paper medically, but, we do and

>can treat

>with many of the biomedical interventions fully covered by insurance.

>Maureen you

>mentioned complete and total discrimination, this is what I see from DAN is

>this what you

>were referring to? This is why DAN has some questions to answer to the

>community.

>These clauses in insurance you mentioned were overturned in the NY autism

>insurance bill

>by framing the legislation as a civil rights issue instead of a direct

>insurance mandate.

>Most important we changed the definition from mental health to

>neorobiological. Direct

>insurance mandates are nearly impossible regardless of which parties are in

>power. I

>would suggest any parent struggling financially to treat their child

>medically to try and

>persuade their insurance accepting doctor. It is not 100% ineffective, some

>listen and will

>work with you in some areas. Many will pull the labs you request instead of

>having a few

>thousand in expenses after 2 hours and some blood, stool and urine samples.

> Or you

>could buy a PPO insurance plan for the child for a couple hundred per

>month. Then go get

>your kids upper and lower GI issues dealt with by the best Dr. Buie and the

>Geiers for a

>insurance covered phone consult and a extensive set of labs. Or you can pay

>some one like

>Dr Krigsman for the GI and a DAN $20,000 out of pocket. I am not singling

>out Dr.

>Krigsman, but him and Buie do the same thing and have equal amounts of

>credibility. It's

>your choice, your the parent, advocate, you are responsible. This is a

>reasonable short

>term approach. I can't just bitch without offering solutions. You will

>only force the

>insurance companies when you have more peer reviewed papers on the

>biomedical

>interventions you want. Much of what you consider biomedical is mainstream

>medicine

>and already covered by insurance. I hope this helps in framing the issue of

>what the

>challenges ahead are for ALL these kids to get treated and the proactive

>parents to remain

>financially solvent.

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

> > >

> > > Are they? Who?

> > >

> > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

> > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

> > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

> > > to be... $960 an hour?

> > >

> > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

> > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

> > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> > >

> > > Jen

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

> > > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> > Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get

>listings, and more!

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live!

http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/

September 28, 2007

My DAN Dr told me that they don't accept insurance because that would

require a contract with the insurance company. With that contract,

comes all sorts of rules and stipulations of what they can and can't

do (like vaccinations), which would prevent them from providing the

medical care that our kids need. She is also a homeopathic Dr (a

real MD), so she offers alternative treatments like accupuncture

which would also not fit with the insurance model.

> >

> > >

> > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really

DAN!

> > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now

they

> > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has

nothing

> >

> > Are they? Who?

> >

> > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about

$80

> > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my

kid,

> > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work

out

> > to be... $960 an hour?

> >

> > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors

doing,

> > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get

treatment.

> > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> >

> > Jen

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount

prices!

> > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get

listings, and more!

>

September 28, 2007

Hi You are very knowledgable on this issue and I agree with you. I presented a very complicated problem much too simply. I was really just trying to shift all the blame from the DAN doctors to our whole health problem with these kids-the insurance issues, the fact that autism is still listed in the DSM incorrectly etc and I know it is not mainstreamed and bio-med not accepted. There are problems in every corner you look-with peds, legislators--in short-DANS should not take all the heat for this massive problem. thanks, Maurineahs10402 <allprint@...> wrote: Hi Maureen, There is a lot of denial from well intentioned parents who are pro-biomedical regarding DAN practices and particularly insurance and over billing from some. We simply have not published enough in the medical literature to have this accepted as mainstream. You cannot present a "got better/got worse parent accounts" and expect that it is acceptedmedical science. While we have some peer reviewed papers, many more are needed.In the mean time we do not treat autism on paper medically, but, we do and can treat with many of the biomedical interventions fully covered by insurance. Maureen you mentioned complete and total discrimination, this is what I see from DAN is this what you were referring to? This is why DAN has some questions to answer to the community. These clauses in insurance you mentioned were overturned in the NY autism insurance bill

by framing the legislation as a civil rights issue instead of a direct insurance mandate. Most important we changed the definition from mental health to neorobiological. Direct insurance mandates are nearly impossible regardless of which parties are in power. I would suggest any parent struggling financially to treat their child medically to try and persuade their insurance accepting doctor. It is not 100% ineffective, some listen and will work with you in some areas. Many will pull the labs you request instead of having a few thousand in expenses after 2 hours and some blood, stool and urine samples. Or you could buy a PPO insurance plan for the child for a couple hundred per month. Then go get your kids upper and lower GI issues dealt with by the best Dr. Buie and the Geiers for a insurance covered phone consult and a extensive set of labs. Or you can pay some one like Dr Krigsman for the GI and a DAN $20,000 out of pocket. I

am not singling out Dr. Krigsman, but him and Buie do the same thing and have equal amounts of credibility. It's your choice, your the parent, advocate, you are responsible. This is a reasonable short term approach. I can't just bitch without offering solutions. You will only force the insurance companies when you have more peer reviewed papers on the biomedical interventions you want. Much of what you consider biomedical is mainstream medicine and already covered by insurance. I hope this helps in framing the issue of what the challenges ahead are for ALL these kids to get treated and the proactive parents to remain financially solvent.> > > > >> > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN! > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing > > > > Are they? Who? > > > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80 > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid, > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out > > to be... $960 an hour? > > > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the > > pediatricians to start getting

trained on what the DAN doctors doing, > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment. > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.> > > > Jen> > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________> > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!> > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/> Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!>

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us.

September 28, 2007

No business agreements are entered into without contracts.

That would be absurd. Like vaccinations? What does that mean?

exemptions exist in almost every state in the nation. Does acupuncture

prove in the medical literature that it helps with autism or autism symptoms?

Thats not passing the stink test either.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really

> DAN!

> > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now

> they

> > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has

> nothing

> > >

> > > Are they? Who?

> > >

> > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about

> $80

> > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my

> kid,

> > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work

> out

> > > to be... $960 an hour?

> > >

> > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors

> doing,

> > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get

> treatment.

> > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> > >

> > > Jen

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount

> prices!

> > > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> > Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get

> listings, and more!

> >

>

September 28, 2007

Maureen,

DAN's should not take all the heat. I agree. I fully recognize they have

treated these kids

when mainline pediatrics has blown them off. In states where autism parity

insurance

exists the DAN's or any other doctor cannot be sued or legitimately challenged

for treating

the specific ailment. It is my view that insurance coverage for office visits

is reasonable

and DAN has never fully debated the issue with state legislators, health

departments or

parent groups. They can and need to accept some insurance(MD's) and publish

more peer

reviewed studies and make it easier for ALL children to obtain treatment.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are really DAN!

> > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now they

> > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has nothing

> > >

> > > Are they? Who?

> > >

> > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects about $80

> > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of my kid,

> > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that work out

> > > to be... $960 an hour?

> > >

> > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN doctors doing,

> > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get treatment.

> > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> > >

> > > Jen

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at discount prices!

> > > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> > Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings,

and

more!

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel

and lay it on

us.

>

September 28, 2007

Your ped is lucky, our's only collects $40/visit. The average overhead

can be $300-500, so that's 8 kids/hr minimum, or 7.5 minutes. I think

our state's TNcare pays like $20/visit. No way can a DAN see a new

patient in that length of time, or many times in follow-up.

I think one thing that would help would be to get nurses trained to do

more of the intake (future nurse here), but I can also see why a

practitioner would want to ensure he/she knows everything he/she wants

to ensure proper delivery of care.

If more nurses, and many offices only have medical assistants, were

DAN-savvy, they could do much of the explanations about how to start

diets, how to give the supps, etc. But again, that also requires a big

step of trust between practitioner & nurse. And many of us, after

traveling hrs, want to see the doctor, not support staff.

I read medscape talking about changing billing from per visit to pro

rated according to minutes spent. That way the doctor is not penalized

for spending time with the patient. If doctors would use their clout

to get behind these sorts of insurance changes, we'd all be better

off, as well as if more of us went to medical savings plans, where we

control our own money, not the company profiting off us, and believe

me, they do profit or they wouldn't be in business. With medical

savings I can pay any DAN! when the funds are in there, I'm the

manager of my own funds.

Debi

September 28, 2007

Insurance companies routinely audit doctors charts, sometimes as

often as twice a year. they base their decisions whether to allow a

particular md to be a participating provider. If a doctor claims are

submitted with particular codes for treatment, you better make darn

sure their is documented evidence of that issue. Example, child with

flat feet, BC/BS will ONLY pay for orthotics if there are pain

complaints.

Even if a patient states they had an MI(heart attack), doctor writes

it up in the history, insurance companies are coming to look for

documented evidence, not just the patients word. So a doctor is

forced to show it somewhere. Insurance companies will send out

trained abstractors to find or not find the info being submitted for.

Insurance companies are the sole reason ASD children are not being

treated appropriately, as well as poor research supporting the

reasons for certain treatments. Not every kid that is lead poisoned

will have elevated blood levels if the exposure is old.

Can't really blame doctors that have jumped ship from insurance

acceptance.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are

really

> > DAN!

> > > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now

> > they

> > > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has

> > nothing

> > > >

> > > > Are they? Who?

> > > >

> > > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects

about

> > $80

> > > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of

my

> > kid,

> > > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that

work

> > out

> > > > to be... $960 an hour?

> > > >

> > > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > > > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN

doctors

> > doing,

> > > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get

> > treatment.

> > > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> > > >

> > > > Jen

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at

discount

> > prices!

> > > > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> > > Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews,

get

> > listings, and more!

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2007

I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. The insurance companies

put mandates on the ped's like what % of the practice must be

vaccinated and defined standards of care. This wouldn't allow her to

practice medicine the way she feels is in the best interest of her

patients. She also provides well-care for NT children and employs

alternative therapies across the board. Also something that

insurance industry would regulate.

The point I was trying to make is that Drs don't accept insurance

because it puts too many restrictions on how they run their

practice. If you have a PPO or POS plan, you can bill yourself and

re-coup costs.

My Dr is working with my HMO ped to order tests and keep my out of

pocket costs down.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Everything you say is very true. However, if there are

really

> > DAN!

> > > > > Doctors that were charging say $250 an office visit and now

> > they

> > > > > are charging $500 dollars or more as a result from the

> > > > > McCarthy media blitz that is just crooked and wrong and has

> > nothing

> > > >

> > > > Are they? Who?

> > > >

> > > > I find it interesting that a regular pediatrician collects

about

> > $80

> > > > from my insurance company for taking the weight and height of

my

> > kid,

> > > > takes about 5 minutes, a well baby visit. So what does that

work

> > out

> > > > to be... $960 an hour?

> > > >

> > > > McCarthy made several challenges on Larry King to the

> > > > pediatricians to start getting trained on what the DAN

doctors

> > doing,

> > > > so parents don't have to go to such great lengths to get

> > treatment.

> > > > With a well known DAN sitting next to her, nodding.

> > > >

> > > > Jen

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > Click here and shop from a huge selection of beads at

discount

> > prices!

> > > > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/

> > > Ioyw6i4uNYqwyhwXWjS6wagMjcs6hs70xGPfb3jPLGaLTg3RmEomW4/

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews,

get

> > listings, and more!

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2007

Hi Debi-

Do Medical Savings accounts pay for

supplements too? We are switching over to this type of plan in December, it

will save us $450 a month in premiums, but I don’t know much about it? Would

you mind giving a run down of the typical biomed things that you have used MSA

to pay for? I’m not sure how much per month we should try to contribute.

Thanks- Becky

Re: In support

of DAN docs

Your ped is lucky, our's only collects $40/visit. The

average overhead