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no you aren't being picky, maybe you could suggest that if he can't return

the book to the shelf itself that they put a " return book cart " where he can

put the book when he is finished. Also maybe the teacher could set up a

mini-library in the classroom with books that you send in.

Carol

She isn't Typical, She's Trisha!

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In a message dated 11/7/01 7:26:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> Guess she is just stuck on him using cardboard books,

> cause that didn't settle well either. She said she would have to discuss

> this with the librarian and she is talking to the head of BOCES about it.

> Now, am I being picky and just looking for things to argue about, or are

> they

> being uncooperative? I'm beginning to wonder if it's me. Are they

> unreasonable requests?

> Gail :-)

>

>

Hi Gail, when you say cardboard books do you mean board books? Or do you mean

the flimsy paperback books? Rochelle usually brings back hard cover books

which we will look at together. She is rough on books. There are teeth marks

in alot of our books if I don't watch her closely. She does tend to rip pages

but not on purpose.

As far as putting the books back on shelf. Libraries in general don't want

kids/adults to put them back on shelf. Usually they have an area to put the

discarded books. I think your idea is a good one, just amend the last

direction of putting back on shelf to a discard table. I did shelve books as

a " page " and " read " shelves " (check to make sure books were properly in

order) when I was 14 or so. That is my only experience in this area. That was

when they still had card catalogues. Ha Ha Wish they still had them.

Sometimes waiting for a computer is a drag.

I think it is pretty clear what you want. You want Seth to be independent in

the Library. I think it is a good skill, one I should teach Rochelle's older

brother to do. He just runs around pulling out books and the other books fall

on floor. Oh well.

Diane (mom to Rochelle ds-5 & Danny 7)

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In a message dated 11/7/01 7:26:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> Guess she is just stuck on him using cardboard books,

> cause that didn't settle well either. She said she would have to discuss

> this with the librarian and she is talking to the head of BOCES about it.

> Now, am I being picky and just looking for things to argue about, or are

> they

> being uncooperative? I'm beginning to wonder if it's me. Are they

> unreasonable requests?

>

Gail,

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!! NO, you are not making unreasonable requests.

These people are outrageous!!!! *I* knew Maddie wouldn't go for the books

MM has, so I purchased some and they are using them in her classroom for her

library time. Stick to your guns GAil, THEY are the unreasonable ones!!!!

Sheesh!!!

Donna

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In a message dated 11/7/01 4:37:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Csvillars@... writes:

<< no you aren't being picky, maybe you could suggest that if he can't return

the book to the shelf itself that they put a " return book cart " where he can

put the book when he is finished. Also maybe the teacher could set up a

mini-library in the classroom with books that you send in.

Carol >>

Hi ya Carol!

Well, at our library, the kids put the books back on the shelf, but I am sure

they would agree to put a cart in the kids section for Seth to put the book

on. They are very supportive of Seth and are willing to bend a little. I

suggested about sending books in, but not to the classroom. I think that

wouldn't help Seth as much, and would be hard for him to carry over the skill

to the public library. He would just not get that, I don't think. May be

worth a try though. Well, the teacher will not set up a library in the room

anyway. Said the kids would destroy the books and that library is not an

appropriate activity for her level of kids.Thanks.

Gail :-)

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In a message dated 11/7/01 4:42:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,

dben937342@... writes:

<< I think it is pretty clear what you want. You want Seth to be independent

in

the Library. I think it is a good skill, one I should teach Rochelle's older

brother to do. He just runs around pulling out books and the other books

fall

on floor. Oh well.

Diane (mom to Rochelle ds-5 & Danny 7)

>>

LOL Yeah Diane. That's what Seth wants to do too. Teacher wants to use the

hard paged books. Easier to turn the pages and more durable. I can see her

point and agree it would be best for Seth. He doesn't need words right now,

just pictures and pages that his chubby little hands can turn. I'm thinking

it might be hard to teach Seth to return the book to the cart because....he

will want to take all the books off the shelf and put them on the cart! LOL

Guess there is another area we will have to work on. LOL We volunteer at

the library every week, and spend a lot of time straightening the kids

shelves. As do tons of other volunteers. LOL I think that is why our

library lets the kids put the books back on the shelves.....they have so many

volunteers, they have to have something for them to do! LOL

Gail :-)

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In a message dated 11/7/01 5:10:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, duffey48@...

writes:

<< Gail,

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!! NO, you are not making unreasonable requests.

These people are outrageous!!!! *I* knew Maddie wouldn't go for the books

MM has, so I purchased some and they are using them in her classroom for her

library time. Stick to your guns GAil, THEY are the unreasonable ones!!!!

Sheesh!!!

Donna

>>

I remember you saying this Donna, and that is why I offered to do the same.

I thought it was a great idea, but the teacher just said *no*. Ughhhhhhh,

Me thinks they are going to be harder to teach than Seth. LOL

Gail :-)

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In a message dated 11/7/01 9:23:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> LOL I think that is why our

> library lets the kids put the books back on the shelves.....they have so

> many

> volunteers, they have to have something for them to do! LOL

> Gail :-)

>

> That is to funny. They always need volunteers at our schools.Thought about

> it. That's about it. Just thought about it. LOLO Glad there are great

> volunteers like you! One day I'll be able to help out. Gail, you said in

> another post, that the teacher has no books in class? Did I miss

> understand? I guess after Kindergarten they don't really have many books

> unless they are part of the reading program. Is that correct?

>

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In a message dated 11/7/01 12:39:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dben937342@... writes:

> ? Did I miss

> > understand? I guess after Kindergarten they don't really have many books

> > unless they are part of the reading program. Is that correct?

>

Diane,

There were no books in Maddie's classroom either. Til I bought them,

that is. When I asked the teacher why they have no books, she said because

the kids just mouth them. HULLO????? Sounds like a goal in there

somewhere!!! Man oh man!!!

Donna

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they have lots of books in Trisha's classroom and they are allowed to even

bring the books home if they want. The teacher this year encourages the kids

to read/look at books. Trisha's favorite book at school is green eggs and

ham and the teacher lets her bring it home everyday so she can look at it.

She is also doing green eggs and ham on the computer and when she does that

she puts the book in her lap and tries to match the pictures on the computer

screen to the pictures in the book.

Carol

She isn't Typical, She's Trisha!

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I think I would let them teach him to put it on the return cart instead of the

shelf. That's one consession. Most libraries I've been in don't allow the kids

to return the books to the shelf, but have a return cart.

As the board books, I think that would say to me that they didn't want to

actually sit there with him, they wanted to take the easy way out. The board

books require less direct supervision.

Other than that, I think you're being very reasonable in asking that this skill

be taught. You might add a definite time (like starting with 3 minutes and

working up to 10 minutes in small increments). This is a skill that we actually

worked on with when we were in Hawaii, but we added checking out a book

too. He sat at the table with his therapist and the looking at different books

was in order to select one. You could point out that since you volunteer at the

library, you need him to be able to occupy himself with books, not take them

home.

Loriann

Wife to Dewight

Mom to , 11 years, Down Syndrome, PDD-NOS and Celiac Disease.

, 2 years and Strong Willed

Both homeschooled.

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I'm with Donna. We created an " Andy shelf " in the library at his last

school (haven't gotten to that yet here). He checked books out from that

shelf only. They were interesting to him, he knew where to go, etc. He

returned them, with *everyone else's* (inclusive classroom, but still, it

could be sped) on the book cart the next week.

We even set up a special visual system for him to check them out so he'd

know what to do.

Sorry you have to go through this gail.

j

At 08:06 AM 11/7/01 EST, duffey48@... wrote:

>In a message dated 11/7/01 7:26:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>smilinggail@... writes:

>

>

>> Guess she is just stuck on him using cardboard books,

>> cause that didn't settle well either. She said she would have to discuss

>> this with the librarian and she is talking to the head of BOCES about it.

>> Now, am I being picky and just looking for things to argue about, or are

>> they

>> being uncooperative? I'm beginning to wonder if it's me. Are they

>> unreasonable requests?

>>

>

>Gail,

> UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!! NO, you are not making unreasonable requests.

>These people are outrageous!!!! *I* knew Maddie wouldn't go for the books

>MM has, so I purchased some and they are using them in her classroom for her

>library time. Stick to your guns GAil, THEY are the unreasonable ones!!!!

>Sheesh!!!

>Donna

>

>

>

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Hi

Your request is not unreasonable. Someone else said the real goal is

independence in the Library.

I kept asking that the give Zac tasks to do, such as deliver notes, or

something to different parts of the school and that I wanted him to follow a

map. They got hung up on which was was north. There is nothing in the

school gives direction or relationships to north, there is no north hall, or

west wing stuff like that.

I said, I want Zac to be able to go into any building and find a room. This

is a good life skill. They could pick any method or skills they want. As

long as they practiced following a map, and allot of maps there is a north

somewhere on it. Anyway. His teachers were not confrontational to me or

tsk-tsk-tsk, we know best, just never occurred to them.

My suggestion is to ask the teacher what she thinks skills are necessary for

Seth to use any library. What are appropriate behaviors in any the library?

Hang in there.

Wayne

Library skills

I'm lost as to what to do next. I sent Seth's teacher a paper with the

following written on it.

Library skills

Choose book from shelf

take it to a table

sit and look at pictures for increasingly longer periods, with aide making

it

fun and vocal

return book to shelf

Well, his teacher called and said * So, you don't want him to bring the book

home? * I said no, that the point was to teach him to sit at the table with

the book and return it to the shelf. She said he couldn't do that because

kids weren't allowed to put books ON the shelf. HUH?????? I said, so let

him put it on, and then the aide can take it back off and hand it to the

librarian. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL????? The teacher said there weren't very

many hard, durable books to choose from, so I offered to send in some of

Seth's favorites. Nope, wouldn't hear of that. So I said he didn't need a

cardboard book if the aide was with him and helping to turn the pages and

interacting with him. Guess she is just stuck on him using cardboard books,

cause that didn't settle well either. She said she would have to discuss

this with the librarian and she is talking to the head of BOCES about it.

Now, am I being picky and just looking for things to argue about, or are

they

being uncooperative? I'm beginning to wonder if it's me. Are they

unreasonable requests?

Gail :-)

--------------------------------------------------

Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and photos of

our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

archives for our list.

<>

--------------------------------------------

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In a message dated 11/7/01 6:53:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<< I'm with Donna. We created an " Andy shelf " in the library at his last

school (haven't gotten to that yet here). He checked books out from that

shelf only. They were interesting to him, he knew where to go, etc. He

returned them, with *everyone else's* (inclusive classroom, but still, it

could be sped) on the book cart the next week.

We even set up a special visual system for him to check them out so he'd

know what to do. >>

What a great idea! I will mention this to the teacher. It would be great to

have one for all the autistic classes to share. Now they couldn't possibly

say no to that. I will even offer them a start up set of books for it.

Thanks Joan.

Gail :-)

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In a message dated 11/7/01 9:39:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,

dben937342@... writes:

<< That is to funny. They always need volunteers at our schools.Thought about

> it. That's about it. Just thought about it. LOLO Glad there are great

> volunteers like you! One day I'll be able to help out. Gail, you said in

> another post, that the teacher has no books in class? Did I miss

> understand? I guess after Kindergarten they don't really have many books

> unless they are part of the reading program. Is that correct?

> >>

We volunteer at the public library. Nope, teacher has no books in the class,

and doesn't seem to want any to have to keep track of. Seth is in

kindergarten this year...wish he were back in preschool. LOL

Gail :-)

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That's a good idea.

--- Joan Guthrie Medlen <jmedlen@...> wrote:

> I'm with Donna. We created an " Andy shelf " in the

> library at his last

> school (haven't gotten to that yet here). He checked

> books out from that

> shelf only. They were interesting to him, he knew

> where to go, etc. He

> returned them, with *everyone else's* (inclusive

> classroom, but still, it

> could be sped) on the book cart the next week.

>

> We even set up a special visual system for him to

> check them out so he'd

> know what to do.

>

> Sorry you have to go through this gail.

>

> j

>

> At 08:06 AM 11/7/01 EST, duffey48@... wrote:

> >In a message dated 11/7/01 7:26:29 AM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> >smilinggail@... writes:

> >

> >

> >> Guess she is just stuck on him using cardboard

> books,

> >> cause that didn't settle well either. She said

> she would have to discuss

> >> this with the librarian and she is talking to the

> head of BOCES about it.

> >> Now, am I being picky and just looking for things

> to argue about, or are

> >> they

> >> being uncooperative? I'm beginning to wonder if

> it's me. Are they

> >> unreasonable requests?

> >>

> >

> >Gail,

> > UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!! NO, you are not making

> unreasonable requests.

> >These people are outrageous!!!! *I* knew Maddie

> wouldn't go for the books

> >MM has, so I purchased some and they are using them

> in her classroom for her

> >library time. Stick to your guns GAil, THEY are

> the unreasonable ones!!!!

> >Sheesh!!!

> >Donna

> >

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >--------------------------------------------------

> >Checkout our homepage for information,

> bookmarks, and photos

> of our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and

> other information by

> including them. Don't forget, messages are a

> permanent record of the

> archives for our list.

>

> >--------------------------------------------

> >

> >

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In a message dated 11/7/01 4:13:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> Seth is in

> kindergarten this year...wish he were back in preschool. LOL

> Gail :-)

>

> Every Kindergarten should have books in the class. What if the children

> finish up early and want to read or look at pictures. Regular Kindergarten

> classes as well as Special ed classes have books. This is a strange

> classroom. Does she even teach reading? I would mention it to the

> principle. But then I guess you need to pick your battles. Good luck and I

> hope you can persuade this teacher. The list has come up with some great

> ideas. I would be totally stressed out. But I am cheering for you. Keep

> your cool.

>

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In a message dated 11/7/01 4:12:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,

dben937342@... writes:

<< This is a strange

> classroom. Does she even teach reading? I would mention it to the

> principle. But then I guess you need to pick your battles. Good luck and I

> hope you can persuade this teacher. The list has come up with some great

> ideas. I would be totally stressed out. But I am cheering for you. Keep

> your cool. >>

Diane,

No, no reading in Seth's class. I don't know if it is because of their

functioning level or just what. Seth seems to be a visual learner, yet,

almost adamant about NOT looking at a book. Even If the girls and I are

reading, he comes and pushes the book down and takes our faces in his hands

and makes us look at him. LOL I know one other boy in his class is the

same way. The kids in this class know no letters or anything. Maybe I'm

wrong and expect too much from Seth. Maybe they are right in thinking these

kids have reached their full potential. Right or wrong, I can't and won't

ever give up on Seth. Thanks

Gail :-)

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Gail,

don't let them try to sell you that bull! That's what the schools have been

telling me for years, is that it was better to work on social skills because

functionally Trisha wasn't ready for any kind of academics and I want you to

know we have proved them wrong this year. What all of our kids need are

teachers who believe in them and who are willing to work in all areas of our

children's education. I sat down with the teacher we have this year for a

long time explaining how I feel about Trisha being taught academics as much

as social skills and she agreed, she doesn't believe in just babysitting or

just giving them the basics she believes in giving them a rounded education

that includes all areas even if they have to be adapted or modified. I

remember her asking how did I want her to start with Trisha and I said start

with her like she has never been in school before and that is what she is

doing. Although nothing is ever perfect, things are so much better this year

and Trisha has learned since the beginning of this year to recognize the

letters A B C and the numbers 1-10 and has been able to match the colors red,

green, blue, yellow. Oh and she has mastered recognizing her first name and

they are starting on her recognizing her last name. Trisha can not read a

complete word yet nor can she count like we do yet but that will come in

time. The other thing we noticed is that it appears that Trisha's

accessments seem to be incorrect from the previous year (s). It looks like

her accessments were done incorrectly and because of being non-verbal they

just assumed she didn't know more because when accessing her they would ask a

question and Trisha did not have the means to answer so they up down that she

didn't know. It's great to watch this teacher because she tries many

different ways to access Trishas development instead of just asking

questions. That is how we found out she knows some of her colors and

recognizes some letters and numbers. In previous years I was told the

picture system was too abstract for Trisha but it's funny when the teacher

and the therapists started using the picture system with her on a consistant

basis, Trisha is doing pretty good with it. We were blessed this year with a

teacher who really seems to care about these kids, who has also worked at a

special needs camp and who keeps taking more classes on special education.

I'm sorry this is long but I thought it was very important that you know how

much a teacher who believes in her kids can make such a big difference in

their abilities. The teacher doesn't let a little thing like Trisha can't

read stop her from encouraging Trisha to look/read books. Trisha is a

mouther also, so the teacher has put clear contact paper on the paperback

books and that has helped alot. I just want to let everyone know that it's

so important to our children not to allow the schools to give up on them

before they even get started. I pushed every year for the system to do more

in educating Trisha but this year I stopped pushing and I just told them flat

out what I would or would not accept and I stood my ground. I wasn't ugly,

just firm. This year I told them the first time that her IEP wasn't being

followed we would go to due process because I was tired of playing their

games and I also let them know that I knew our rights and that I knew how to

contact the department of education and would do so if they didn't start

doing their jobs correctly. Now when I go into Trisha's class the teacher

has a copy of the IEP which she uses to make lesson plans and we are even

thinking we need to revamp the IEP because Trisha has mastered a few thing we

put on it from last year when they believed Trisha couldn't do anything but

because I insisted they work on academics they put recognizing letters,

numbers name etc into the IEP. This will be the first time for us having an

IEP meeting because of mastering some skills and adding new ones. Hang in

there, stick to your gut feelings about your children, usually they are

right.

Carol

She isn't Typical, She's Trisha!

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In a message dated 11/8/01 5:48:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Csvillars@... writes:

> don't let them try to sell you that bull! That's what the schools have been

> telling me for years, is that it was better to work on social skills

> because

> functionally Trisha wasn't ready for any kind of academics and I want you

> to

> know we have proved them wrong this year. What all of our kids need are

> teachers who believe in them and who are willing to work in all areas of

> our

>

Right on Carol!

I have gotten the same from our schools. It's great to hear about Trisha. It

is hard for me to be forceful with my opinons. The only time they listen is

if I have another professional to side with me. Or maybe thats when I decide

to put my foot down and not budge. I guess we all become more confident as

the years go on. I wish I could be more diplomatic instead of emotional. That

seems to work. But threatening due process, that surely works. Because if

they are not following the IEP they will concede pretty quickly.

Diane (mom to Rochelle ds-5 and Danny 7)

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Diane,

I don't know if it is so much forcefulness or just plain frustration at the

lack of quality education in the last 6-7 years of Trisha's schooling. I am

sorry it took me this long to stand up for my child's rights, I believe in

giving second and third, fouth chances but I finally had enough and just

spelled it out to them. I also send in information I find on the internet

about different techniques being used with our kids and I also will do

anything I can to help them so it's not all one way. But personally I think

when the Governors wife contacted the department of Ed after receiving an

email from me, that made a difference as well.

Carol

She isn't Typical, She's Trisha!

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In a message dated 11/8/01 7:14:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Csvillars@... writes:

> But personally I think

> when the Governors wife contacted the department of Ed after receiving an

> email from me, that made a difference as well.

>

> Wow, do they listen to you now? It is frustrating. I do think it gets

> easier because of all the parents that have gone before. Wish all teachers

> were paid to attend workshops for inclusion. They need to make it worth

> while for the teachers. And they need to give teachers some choices. I

> would love to have only teachers that wanted my child in their class. I

> think it all comes down to money doesn't it. Here I go. Sorry, keep up the

> good work.

>

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In a message dated 11/8/01 9:23:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

burnett@... writes:

> I think it's imperative for ALL children to have access to books.

> It's never too early to introduce books to children. I teach Kindermusik to

> newborns & we have a literature component to the program. Everyone should

> read to their children from birth & even before! Board books are great to

> begin with because they're nearly indistructable. You can get lots of 2nd

> hand ones from garage sales, 2nd hand book stores, etc. Also, those plastic

> ones that you can use in the bathtub are great for kids who are still

> mouthing.If you had a book drive at your school, I'm sure you could get tons

> donated. And when they're donated, it doesn't really matter if the

> occasional book gets destroyed. The children will never learn how to

> respect books if they don't have exposure to them. In my opinion, every

> classroom should have books in it - & this includes daycares or nursery

> schools. Keep pushing (gently) for books in the classroom! Good luck!

DITTO DITTO DITTO !!! I agree wholeheartedly!!!!!! I myself am a

voracious reader; simply adore it. I don't think there's ever been a time in

my life when I don't have the next book ready to devour. Never NOT one had

going!! We've tried to instill this in all our kids, but (18) is the

one who seems to take after me. Can't get enough.

How cool that you teach to infants!!! Ooooh,,,,tell us more about that.

It sounds very interesting.

And great idea about the tub books. I think that's what got Maddie into

using them appropriately in the first place. My cousin bought her a BARNEY

tub book (LOL)

Donna

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<<In a message dated 11/7/01 6:53:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<< I'm with Donna. We created an " Andy shelf " in the library at his last

school (haven't gotten to that yet here). He checked books out from that

shelf only. They were interesting to him, he knew where to go, etc. He

returned them, with *everyone else's* (inclusive classroom, but still, it

could be sped) on the book cart the next week.

We even set up a special visual system for him to check them out so he'd

know what to do. >>

What a great idea! I will mention this to the teacher. It would be great

to

have one for all the autistic classes to share. Now they couldn't possibly

say no to that. I will even offer them a start up set of books for it.

Thanks Joan.

Gail :-)>>

Dear Gail,

I think it's imperative for ALL children to have access to books.

It's never too early to introduce books to children. I teach Kindermusik to

newborns & we have a literature component to the program. Everyone should

read to their children from birth & even before! Board books are great to

begin with because they're nearly indistructable. You can get lots of 2nd

hand ones from garage sales, 2nd hand book stores, etc. Also, those plastic

ones that you can use in the bathtub are great for kids who are still

mouthing.If you had a book drive at your school, I'm sure you could get tons

donated. And when they're donated, it doesn't really matter if the

occasional book gets destroyed. The children will never learn how to

respect books if they don't have exposure to them. In my opinion, every

classroom should have books in it - & this includes daycares or nursery

schools. Keep pushing (gently) for books in the classroom! Good luck!

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In a message dated 11/7/01 8:44:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> Seth seems to be a visual learner, yet,

> almost adamant about NOT looking at a book. Even If the girls and I are

> reading, he comes and pushes the book down and takes our faces in his hands

> and makes us look at him. LOL

Gail,

You know, Seth is a very engaging child! That's a HUGE strength!!!!!

It ticks me off that his school doesn't recognize how to use that connection

with him. If you're trying to get Seth to attend to books, try starting

with pictures of you guys. I did this with Maddie in the VERY beginning,

long before books. I had pictures lamenated of every one of us and velcroed

them to the door mirror in the tv room. YES, pulled them off and chewed

them, but eventually, she liked looking at them. Try making a book of

pictures of each family member. Make sure it's CLOSE UP colorful, LARGE

pics (I used 5 by 7 size). See if that perks his interest.

Donna

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> Wish all teachers were paid to attend workshops for inclusion. They

need to make it worth while for the teachers. And they need to give

teachers some choices.

Diane ,

Keep wishing because I know the Administration Organization of

Special Education here in Texas have announced that they are working

next year , that all teachers are required to attend Special

Education training . So hopefully it will spread nation wide . There

have been an enormous increase with children with disability .

Speaking about children with disability in school , Fri . night CBS

will show a nightly news report on children with ADHD & medication .

Anyone catch this preview ?

Irma, 13,DS/ASD

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