Re: shoes are such a big deal LOL

October 10, 2001

Hi Gail,

Unbelievable!! This is the kind of thing that makes me own stock in Zantac!

LOL I can't fathom the incredible need some of these teachers/aides have for

control! You have to just wonder sometimes! I don't blame you for scouting

out another placement for Seth..I would too. I'm with you. If they will do

this stuff with you IN the room, what are they doing when nobody is there??

HMMMMMM!

Terry

October 10, 2001

PS Gail...

You need to just smack the head of special ed....his knuckles obviously still

drag on the ground when he walks! LOL

Terry

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 6:18:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

> Gail:

>

> Call his mother.

>

Geez Gail. I gotta say I thought this too!!!!!!! Though not all parents

step to the plate the reality is most just aren't aware what is happening.

This story broke my heart. Actually, it makes me SUPER mad. Not quite as

mad as I am at Osama bin Laden, but ALMOST!!!!!!!!! GET my drift?!?!?!?

Gail, this does remind me of what I witnessed in the autism support classes

in teh Philly school district. There was a boy SCREAMING in the corner

while his aide sat right in front of him and filed her nails. When teacher

was asked what was wrong, she said " We can't give in to these kids " . I

remember saying... " IT'S APRIL!!!!!!! he's been in school since

September----------how LONG have you " " NOT been giving in " " to him????? "

You know, the TEACCH program can be an excellent program; the ABA program can

be an excellent program; Floortime can be an excellent program (YES I call it

a program), but NONE of them mean a THING if not used with the child in mind.

If all that matters is the AGENDA, then throw it out the darned

window!!!!!!!

UGH.......................I'm MAD!!!!

Donna

October 10, 2001

I'm with you, Donna!

Terry

October 10, 2001

Hey, I want to share a funny story. (THIS reminds me of it) When Duff went

to Harvard Business school, we had three kids. MOved to Boston for two

years; it was rough. I used to drive to the North End every day, pick up

hte kids from school, then stay on STorrow Drive and pick up Duff from

Harvard. One day, we got there and Duff was late. I sent little Joe in to

get his Dad (Joe was 8 at the time). The way Harvard works is the section

(90 people) stays in the same room while the professors circulate, so Duff

was always in the same room. I waited and waited and waited (had two

littler kids in the car with me). FINALLY Joe came out and said... " No,

Dad's not there " . I said " what the heck were you doing in there all that

time " . He said.. " Talking to the janitor " . Dad showed up a couple minutes

later, coming from the library. So, next day, Dad goes to class and meets

his new professor for the new semester. She proceeds to start the class by

saying that she met someone the day before who *briefed* her on ALL their

personalities. She went into detail on many of them.....things

like... " holly is afraid to talk in class and waits til others have spoken

first..... drinks a ton of coffee before each class.......Huffer is a

nice guy, real tall and quiet...... Then she said.... " And takes

his shoes off and keeps his feet on the pipe below to wake himself

up " ........hmmmm.......nobody told HIM to keep his shoes ON!!!!!!! LOLOL

Donna

P.S. Joe thought the professor was the janitor because she was emptying the

trash can.......BUT BOY, was he gabby that day!!!!! Much to the chagrin of

his Dad's classmates!!!!! It's like that commercial for the chewy granola

bars where you need to keep your kids quiet!!!! LOL

October 10, 2001

This is so sad. These people shouldn't be anywhere near kids.

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 3:12:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

stolzfamily@... writes:

<< Yes, for some people, shoes really are a huge deal. And I dont' mean the

kids, either.

This is abuse! Pure and simple. Any way of letting this mom know what is

going on with her kid? I sure would appreciate it if someone would let me

know these things!

_______ >>

You are all right, I need to contact his Mother. I feel very close to this

little guy. I was one of the first people he ever spoke to. He sat with

Seth on the bus 2 years ago and one morning, after many months of telling him

HI!, he repeated it back to me with a big ole smile on his face. He is such

a sweetie and to see him abused like this breaks my heart. I don't know as

his Mom would take any action, as she seems very over-stressed with her life,

but I know I need to do something. Feels like a rock in the pit of my

stomach, as Seth won't keep his shoes on either, and he might have ended up

in that room if I hadn't seen what I did. Thank you God!!!!! I would just

die if anyone treated Seth like that. We will resume Seth's IEP meeting in a

couple of weeks, and I will make strong mention of the way they treated this

kid. I just E-mailed Seth's old teacher to ask if this boys Mother would

want to know. His old teacher is the one who just quit because of the way

things in the program are running. Said she couldn't lie to the parents

anymore about this *great program* Her last day is Friday, and she said she

will talk to me then, when she is free and clear of their revenge I imagine.

I have really tried to work with this district and get along with everyone,

but I am on the war path over this....the fright on that kids face is etched

in my mind. :-(

Gail

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 3:16:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Imaddenmom@... writes:

<< PS Gail...

You need to just smack the head of special ed....his knuckles obviously

still

drag on the ground when he walks! LOL

Terry >>

Ummmmmmm, HER knuckles Terry....a Mom no less. Ughhhh!

Gail :-)

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 3:18:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<< Gail:

Call his mother.

Andy is allowed to keep his shoes off when in classrooms. He has to keep

them on in the hallway (which is no problem) and in the cafeteria nd

outside. But when in the classroom learning, he gets to take them off.

j >>

Geez Joan, I don't see the big deal in it either. The kid can focus better

and learn more if he's barefoot. BIG DEAL!!! This new teacher said if there

is a fire drill, he would have to go out barefoot.....SOOOOOO????? It's

such a much better way of handling it by taking two workers, holding him down

and ignoring the rest of the class and getting nothing accomplished all day

other than upsetting this kid! LOL She is what I would call an educated

idiot. She may have the degree, but she sure as heck has no brains. LOL I

really need to know how all you parents of older kids deal with this stuff

year after year. My stomach and heart can't take any more. How do you do

it?

Gail :-(

October 10, 2001

Yes, for some people, shoes really are a huge deal. And I dont' mean the

kids, either.

This is abuse! Pure and simple. Any way of letting this mom know what is

going on with her kid? I sure would appreciate it if someone would let me

know these things!

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October 10, 2001

Gail:

Call his mother.

Andy is allowed to keep his shoes off when in classrooms. He has to keep

them on in the hallway (which is no problem) and in the cafeteria nd

outside. But when in the classroom learning, he gets to take them off.

j

October 10, 2001

At 03:07 PM 10/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

>This is abuse! Pure and simple. Any way of letting this mom know what is

>going on with her kid? I sure would appreciate it if someone would let me

>know these things!

It is and if you can't call themother, Gail, report it to the school

district superior.

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 4:09:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< Gail, this does remind me of what I witnessed in the autism support

classes

in teh Philly school district. There was a boy SCREAMING in the corner

while his aide sat right in front of him and filed her nails. When teacher

was asked what was wrong, she said " We can't give in to these kids " . I

remember saying... " IT'S APRIL!!!!!!! he's been in school since

September----------how LONG have you " " NOT been giving in " " to him????? "

You know, the TEACCH program can be an excellent program; the ABA program

can

be an excellent program; Floortime can be an excellent program (YES I call

it

a program), but NONE of them mean a THING if not used with the child in

mind.

If all that matters is the AGENDA, then throw it out the darned

window!!!!!!!

UGH.......................I'm MAD!!!!

Donna

>>

This is so sad. :-( Do any of us really know what is happening to our

kids all day? IEP's don't mean anything, unless YOU are there to enforce it

and observe all the time. I know I can't do that every day. We know things

look good on paper, but they don't always go the way they are written. I

THINK Seth has a loving and caring teacher right now, but does he when I'm

not around? I have never seen her in a power struggle with a child. Never

heard her raise her voice. BUT...there are thousands of other things she or

a worker could be doing to my son, or any one's child. I don't have any ears

or eyes in school to tell me what goes on when I'm not there. I cut Seth's

hours this year to 3 hours a day.....only thing left is to totally pull him

out. I really need that 3 hour break to homeschool my girls. I can just see

this district coming after my girls and putting them in foster care because

I'm not doing an adequate job with their schooling. BUT, I won't shut my

mouth and close my eyes to what they are doing to these kids. Seems to me

that last year *I* was the one that insisted they needed this new room

because they were segregating kids into advanced and severe rooms only. LOL

So now they created it and I'm sorry I ever accused them of segregation. Me

and my big mouth! LOL Well, it's getting bigger and louder now. Will I

ever learn? LOL

Gail :-)

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 6:03:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< So, next day, Dad goes to class and meets

his new professor for the new semester. She proceeds to start the class by

saying that she met someone the day before who *briefed* her on ALL their

personalities. She went into detail on many of them.....things

like... " holly is afraid to talk in class and waits til others have spoken

first..... drinks a ton of coffee before each class.......Huffer is a

nice guy, real tall and quiet...... Then she said.... " And

takes

his shoes off and keeps his feet on the pipe below to wake himself

up " ........hmmmm.......nobody told HIM to keep his shoes ON!!!!!!! LOLOL

Donna

P.S. Joe thought the professor was the janitor because she was emptying

the

trash can.......BUT BOY, was he gabby that day!!!!! Much to the chagrin of

his Dad's classmates!!!!! It's like that commercial for the chewy granola

bars where you need to keep your kids quiet!!!! LOL >>

ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!! Did everyone know it was Duff's son that was spreading the

news? LOL Well could have been worse. He could have told all your family's

personal business. LOL And...I don't like shoes either and take them off

and put my feet on the cold pews in church to keep me awake. LOL

Gail :-)

October 10, 2001

.. When

> teacher

> was asked what was wrong, she said " We can't give in to these kids " .

> I

> remember saying... " IT'S APRIL!!!!!!! he's been in school since

> September----------how LONG have you " " NOT been giving in " " to

> him????? "

These are the same kinds of things I was hearing about Matt and his

" behavior " at his previous school. We cannot give into him! My answer

was that after 10 years of living with him, I am finally " wising up " to

how to dicipline and how not to dicipline him. So, I'm a little slow.

But I do know what does and doesnt' work. My problem, and I suspect what

will happen here with these people, is that they are the " Experts " and

" know how to handle these things " .

Grrrrrr I " m getting madder the more I think of this

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October 10, 2001

Donna,

Great Story !!! LOL

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb DS-? 8

October 10, 2001

Hi Joan,

I feel exactly like you do! I am so glad that maybe this is normal. I go

through the same list of supports and services with the teachers and over and

over again until the end of the year and they finally have it right. I just

want to quit!! I always hope that I am also helping the next child with a

parent that doesn't or can't advocate as well but I am exhausted.

Charlyne

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 7:42:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<< I don't, Gail. That's why I play Ed assistant until I think there's a

reasonable situation. It's why I pull my kid out of school the MOMENT I

think there's a problem. It's why when there *is* a problem, I don't take

excuses--Andy clearly says there's a problem, therefore you own up to it

and help me solve it. I can be persistent, ugly, and angry, but I try not

to be personal.

Not getting personal is a very difficult thing to do, I think. I feel like

screaming *You bunch of morons!* I can't imagine how personal I would get if

my son was ever treated this way.

I've been fortunate over the years to be able to poltic and build bridges

rather than burning them. It would take little for me to get pressure

applied to a situation. I know enough people that I can do that.

I don't know if I can hang in there long enough to do that, if I even have

the brains to do it or if my judgment is good enough to tell the *good guys*

from the *bad guys*. They all seem like very caring and nice people, just

totally ignorant ones. LOL I know a lot of it comes down to politics and no

one here is willing to take a stand. They all talk the politically correct

jibberish that really doesn't say anything. The big wigs literally gasp when

I say something straight forward, and the others in the room chuckle under

their breath that I have dared to say such a thing in the presence of the

gods. LOL They tell me afterwards, in private, that what I have said is

correct, but won't support me in the presence of the big wigs.

I've found my biggest asset is *knowledge*. I read, I write, I spend time

with people I care about (like you guys), and I always ALWAYS look for the

solution. I try very very hard to keep my emotions out of it...but I " m not

always successful. If they tell me it's not possible, I give them a list of

journal articles and so forth that say it is. They've learned they look

like idiots if they cross me.

I would be the one looking like the idiot, I'm sure. We are country folk

here and the big wigs are brought in from out of town. Very charismatic

schmoozers. Need to take a knife to cut through the sweet bull they serve at

the meetings. LOL My brain has never had to be in a defense, figure out

what they are really saying mode before. I need to change my whole way of

thinking, I guess.

The interesting thing I'm catching wind of is that the director of special

education wants to contract me to do some work. I don't know what, and I

don't know if I can take it on. But if I can find parents who care about

their kids and want to work *with* people to make it good, I will.

Good luck at what ever comes about. Is your neck able to take it? How are

you doing?

In other words, all these things we share here...like " so what if he goes

out barefoot when there's a fire) can be channeled into an embarassing

moment in front of the boss. Sometimes it means asking a well-timed

innocent quesiton, sometimes you have to be more tenacious and assertive.

But if push comes to shove, if you mention what you saw in your next

meeting, someone will be all over it.

Yeah, I figured that one out. LOL 2 days before Seth's IEP meeting I

observed this same class. The speech therapist never showed, after the kid

put his speech pic in the pocket and sat at the table waiting for 20 minutes.

I questioned Seth's present teacher about it and said someone should call

for an audit of the BOCES program. 2 days later they informed me the problem

had been taken care of. I didn't even mention it at the meeting, they just

felt the need to tell me I guess. LOL

I guess I survived so far by putting my effort into being *smarter*.

It's not fun.

And many many days I'm ready to quit.

j >>

But you are so good at it and you make a difference in Andy's education, and

all the ones to follow. I'm not intelligent, I have no memory and I'm

getting no where trying to advocate for Seth. I have common sense, but that

won't ever get us any where. Maybe I need to go get a degree for them to

listen. Then I can be an *expert* too. Just what this district needs, one

more expert to foul things up. LOL Joan, if it wasn't for all of you on

this list, I do believe I would be in the nut house right now. Thanks.

Gail :-)

October 10, 2001

In a message dated 10/10/01 10:08:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ICANFIELD@... writes:

<< Oh

Gail , you see how that bother you when you had witnessed about the

little boy , thats the caring heart. : ) We are confronted by many

things and together we become stronger and more compassionate

people . This list is just wonderful for support . : )

Irma, 13,DS/ASD. >>

Irma,

These are such sad stories. :-( Poor . I just can't believe an

educator could do these things to helpless kids. Ughhhhhh! Seems like they

are over the stupidest things. My daughter doesn't like to sit at her desk

and do her work. She moans, wiggles, sighs etc... I let her sit on the floor

at the coffee table and she writes her reports, does all her math, reading,

spelling, then she is able to sit at the desk for her cursive. What's the

big deal? We have peace in the house, she's learning more and willingly

doing it. Why can't some of these teachers bend a little? Why do they

create a power struggle over nothing? I just can't believe that just us

Mom's of these kids know how to work WITH them. It's just common sense

stuff. Are they teaching this stuff in college, or are they just graduating

idiots now? LOL You're right, this list is precious. Thanks for sharing

Irma, and I'm so sorry you had to deal with this stuff with .

Gail :-)

October 10, 2001

At 10:01 PM 10/10/01 EDT, you wrote:

This new teacher said if there

>is a fire drill, he would have to go out barefoot.....SOOOOOO?????

Golly.....if there's a fire here, we'll ALL go out barefoot!

Like if there's a fire they'll stop to get their coats?

(no one in my family wears shoes in the house. When we go to other's homes

we take our shoes off....wonder where he learend it?)

October 10, 2001

At 10:01 PM 10/10/01 EDT, you wrote:

I

>really need to know how all you parents of older kids deal with this stuff

>year after year. My stomach and heart can't take any more. How do you do

>it?

I don't, Gail. That's why I play Ed assistant until I think there's a

reasonable situation. It's why I pull my kid out of school the MOMENT I

think there's a problem. It's why when there *is* a problem, I don't take

excuses--Andy clearly says there's a problem, therefore you own up to it

and help me solve it. I can be persistent, ugly, and angry, but I try not

to be personal.

When I witness things that are *wrong* like this, I call the director of

special education. I spill names, dates, times.....all of it. And she knows

that if I see it again, I call CSD. Fortunately, *she* (the director of

sped) gets more angry than I do. It saves me a lot of trouble. She has to

play politics, but she believes kids are our assets in life.