Re: Gail...IEP Goals??

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/01 12:43:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< hey've reached a few of the goals, like pulling up her

pants, sitting on the toilet (not always going, but she sits for us),

responding to her name, making eye contact when we say her name, initiating

PECS and handing over the pic to staff, (all was done through ABA) and

sitting and attending to task for 60 consecutive seconds (long time for

her...LOL). I am also going to get them working on pre-writing skills

(holding a crayon and coloring, as opposed to EATING it). I too, have to

talk with them about techniques for her behaviors, such as the stop/drop

stuff, unwillingness to go with them to transition from activity to

activity,

the mouthing everything, eating everything....her teacher and aide last year

knew exactly how to deal with this stuff, now I gotta go back in and TEACH

them again how to work with her. I REALLY want to see sensory integration

stepped up with Maddie; she's seems to have regressed as far as dealing in

public places. She gets no PT other than PE. She does get swimming

lessons every week and is doing fabulous with that. We went from her being

terrified and not going in AT ALL, to where she jumps in and gets out all by

herself.

Donna

P.S. I SURE wish we could find a way to get Maddie to understand what we

are saying to her. They tell me they are working on that using ABA.

>>

Donna,

Maddie has come a long way! You must be thrilled. Seth gets tons of sensory

stuff at school, and home. He loves going places and wide open spaces

especially. I asked his teacher the other day if it was possible to not use

the rifton chair with Seth any more. (he doesn't have a 1-1-aide anymore).

We came up with putting a sticky sheet on his chair, under his bottom, and

one under his bowl to keep it from sliding too. It's working so far, but

will still be written in his IEP that no rifton is to be used. Every thing

I've listed for his IEP enhances what we do at home. Seems like the school

is teaching him things, but they aren't relative to his home life and I would

like them to reinforce what we are doing here. PT and PE are going to work

on things that Seth likes or needs to learn to participate with us. He likes

being upside down and can do tumbles, but now we are working on headstands.

We bowl with friends, so they can work on that too. Baseball skills and

trike riding are the others we do, and they can help there too. I would like

to add roller blading too, but will have to see just how well his balance is

this weekend before I add that. Seth couldn't care less about coloring with

a crayon, so I thought maybe a glow board that gives more of a visual / cause

and effect type thing might work better, and there would be less of a

distraction of eating the crayons. We have already discussed the humping

issue and his teacher said what they do at nap time on their mats is the same

thing they are allowed to do in their bedrooms. Well, we had to modify that

one!!!! Seth spends a lot of time at gymnastics....on mats. LOL I don't

want a mat to be a trigger for humping, so I said tell him no, and he will

stop. Well, he does at home anyway. LOL He can hump all he wants in his

bedroom, but that's it. LOL I also discussed that he has been doing push in

jobs for 3 years now, and it's time to move on to matching. She did agree to

it, and is starting him on 2 match jobs this week. I think the biggest

thing I need to stress to them that Seth is MY child, he lives with me and

they should be enhancing what I am doing with him, not the other way around.

Control freak aren't I ? LOL I think my biggest gripe is that they don't

talk to Seth enough. They don't play with him, laugh with him or anything.

I told the teacher I just want him treated at school the way he is treated at

home, and at home we engage him in play and conversation. I know all the

staff in that room are taught to do things in silence, but that isn't working

with Seth, and even if it did, it's not how I want it done. It seems so

unnatural and cold. I think it would be worth the loss of doing a new push

in job, for a minute of social interaction from Seth. That is so great that

Maddie is working on toileting. Seth loves swimming now too. There was a

time when just getting him to walk into the bathroom was a big deal, let

alone getting him actually get into the tub. LOL What else are you working

on Donna?

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

--- smilinggail@... wrote: > In a message dated

10/15/01 12:43:02 PM Pacific

> Daylight Time,

> duffey48@... writes:

>

> Hi everyone

have to say I read all the mail posted and I am in awe

of the knowledge you all have and the innovative ways

you find to deal with your childrens problems. I

particularly admire those of you who choose to teach

their children at home, i'm not sure that I would find

the patience and dedication to do that,.

Have been to see Rebekah's headteacher today who

finally seems prepared to admit we have problems. His

main obsticle appears to be that Rebekah's

behaviour/progress at school is good,however he says

it's not unusual to find that. We are going to all

meet to discuss Rebekah and I thought it may be an

idea to video her so that the professionals can see

the kind of problems we are encountering.

Does anyone have a child who has been fixated with

walking around on all fours with shoes on their hands?

(u.k.) mum to Rebekah 3

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

Thinking about you with the IEP meetings. Your requests sound logical to me

and teaching our children to love to learn is what it's all about.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb DS-? 8

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/01 8:04:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> I think my biggest gripe is that they don't

> talk to Seth enough. They don't play with him, laugh with him or anything.

>

> I told the teacher I just want him treated at school the way he is treated

> at

> home, and at home we engage him in play and conversation. I know all the

> staff in that room are taught to do things in silence, but that isn't

> working

> with Seth, and even if it did, it's not how I want it done

Gail,

This is terrible!!!!!!!! They sound like robots, for God's sake!! That

was my major gripe when I first read about ABA. It sounded too robotic; too

much like dog-training. But Maddie's teacher and aide last year were so

warm with it. I told them they do ABA with a Floortime touch...LOL Gail,

Seth is so much like Maddie in so many ways. I tell people they have to be

OVERLY animated with her. You must EMPHASIZE everything. Your voice, your

facial expression, your body language. It's what gets her attention.

Sides, I've MET Seth!!!! How can ANYONE be flat with that little cutie

pie!!! He's so adorable.

<<What else are you working

on Donna?>>

Well, Duff and I have been trying to come up with some good goals for her.

He always comes back to the very basics....you know, dressing, eating, that

kind of stuff. I want to expand, mostly because I am SICK of having the IEP

never change. This year is the year to expand I think because she made so

much progress last year. The big problem with Maddie is she's just not

consistent. We have her choosing from her PECS board, and sometimes she'll

choose what she wants, but sometimes she just chooses the one closest to

her...then you realize it's not what she wants. So I am aiming for more

consistency too. Communication is still HUGE for us. She's playful,

making great eye contact, sustaining it, and seems to be much more WITH IT to

us, so while these are great strides, I feel like we have to be careful in

how we go forward. IOW, I don't want to lose what we've gained in the

process. Make sense????

Anybody out there got ideas for me??????

Gail, what day is your meeting again????? I wanna be able to send VIBES

straight up to NY from Philly at the right time......LOL

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/17/01 11:56:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< I told them they do ABA with a Floortime touch...LOL Gail,

Seth is so much like Maddie in so many ways. I tell people they have to be

OVERLY animated with her. You must EMPHASIZE everything. Your voice,

your

facial expression, your body language. It's what gets her attention.

Sides, I've MET Seth!!!! How can ANYONE be flat with that little cutie

pie!!! He's so adorable.

Yeah, he is isn't he? LOL Same thing with Seth Donna. He will react if it

is overly antimatter and stressed in a fun way. I really don't think it is

the way the people really are as much as the way they have been trained.

They truly believe it is the way things are done. Well, the way it should be

done is what ever way works for each child. Maybe that way works for some of

them, but not all of them.

Well, Duff and I have been trying to come up with some good goals for her.

He always comes back to the very basics....you know, dressing, eating, that

kind of stuff. I want to expand, mostly because I am SICK of having the

IEP

never change.

Yeah, Seth's has been the same for 3 years now. Will improve pincer grasp,

will improve walking, will improve yada yada yada! They will all IMPROVE

with age anyway. LOL

This year is the year to expand I think because she made so

much progress last year. The big problem with Maddie is she's just not

consistent. We have her choosing from her PECS board, and sometimes she'll

choose what she wants, but sometimes she just chooses the one closest to

her...then you realize it's not what she wants. So I am aiming for more

consistency too.

Tell me Donna, with the PECS thing. If she picks the wrong card, is she

forced to eat what she chose? They tell me that is necessary for them to

learn, but when Seth made mistakes like that at home, I would offer him what

he chose, but not force him to eat it. He eventually learned the pics that

he DIDN " T want. LOL

Communication is still HUGE for us. She's playful,

making great eye contact, sustaining it, and seems to be much more WITH IT

to

us, so while these are great strides, I feel like we have to be careful in

how we go forward. IOW, I don't want to lose what we've gained in the

process. Make sense????

So how do you plan to proceed? She has made great gains!

Gail, what day is your meeting again????? I wanna be able to send VIBES

straight up to NY from Philly at the right time......LOL

Donna

Thanks Donna. When is yours again? I have no idea when mine is now. Candy

wants to have the *other* meeting first, which I'm still not too sure of.

LOL It was supposed to be next week.

Gail :-)

>>

[Guest guest]

Gail & Donna,

I noticed that you have IEP meetings in the Fall. Is this standard for you.

We will also be having an IEP but it is because we have new information frrm

evaluations done over the summer which we would like implemented. Actually we

are still waiting on some info to come. The schools usually have Spring IEPs

for the following year. Did you find the Fall IEP helpful or do you just meet

regularly? I just really dislike IEP meetings. Just curious. I want to do the

right thing for my child. Also do you fine the dual diagnosis helpful as a

label? Are the teachers more understanding?

Diane (mom to Rochelle-ds and Danny)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/01 9:35:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

dben937342@... writes:

> I noticed that you have IEP meetings in the Fall. Is this standard for you.

> We will also be having an IEP but it is because we have new information

> frrm

> evaluations done over the summer which we would like implemented. Actually

> we

> are still waiting on some info to come. The schools usually have Spring

> IEPs

> for the following year. Did you find the Fall IEP helpful or do you just

> meet

> regularly? I just really dislike IEP meetings. Just curious. I want to do

> the

> right thing for my child. Also do you fine the dual diagnosis helpful as a

> label? Are the teachers more understanding?

> Diane (mom to Rochelle-ds and Danny)

Hi Diane,

First off, yes the dual dx is very helpful to us. Maddie goes to a

school that implements the ABA method of teaching kids with autism. If she

didn't have her dual dx, she most likely would not have gotten into this

approved private school. Also, her IEP is in the Fall now and that is best

for us. It catches the teachers early on. Having it in the spring is

tough I think because then you head right into summer. I like to do it when

the school year is new. When Maddie went to her EI program, we did it in

late November or early December. It didn't matter then, cause she always

had the same two teachers. I also meet regularly with the teacher and

speech therapist. Typically about every 6 weeks I go in and the three of us

*confer*.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Diane:

The school doesn't get to tell you when is the best time to re-write your

child's IEP. You can ask to have it reviewed or completely re-written at

anytime. They *have* to do it at least once a year, but if you review it

and change things, they have a year from that date.

I personally think it's very difficult to have IEPs in the spring b/c the

people working with them in the fall are different. It makes more sense for

a kid to return to similar goals--though a different classroom like any

kid--so they deal wtih fewer changes. Plus when you come back from summer

break, kids are never the same. Then all theprofessionals contest the

present level fo performance because " they can't see it " or can't get him

to do it.

The whole thing drives me nuts. You know, if someone wrote a goal, wouldn't

you just accept that's approrpiate? but no...every year they have to

pretend they know more than the other person. It's about *them* not about

the *child*. Drives me nuts.

Anyway. I always have at least a team meeting after abouta month in the

fall. That way we can talk about problems. Right now andy's IEP date is

very latein the school year. Perhaps this year we'll write it in February

or March just to switch it around. They're always late or it takes more

meetings.......

I hate IEPs.

j

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/17/01 9:58:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> They will all IMPROVE

> with age anyway. LOL

>

>

ROTFLOL Gail. Yep, I suppose so!!!! Eventually!!!!

<<Tell me Donna, with the PECS thing. If she picks the wrong card, is she

forced to eat what she chose? They tell me that is necessary for them to

learn, but when Seth made mistakes like that at home, I would offer him what

he chose, but not force him to eat it. He eventually learned the pics that

he DIDN " T want. LOL>>

Hell no!!!! LOL I do NOT force. PLEASE, I still have visions of my

father force feeding my poor brother spaghetti!!!!! The items of choice

are always on the table and she looks from board to table at each item every

time. Then she'll choose banana when she does NOT remotely want one. Then

she'll hurl it. On mornings when I have TIME (weekends, Remember, I am

trying to get two others plus a hubby out the door ALL at the same time), I

assist her in going to pick up said banana!!!! Then we start over again.

She will mostly pick the picture closest to her right hand, despite the fact

that it looks like she's deep in thought and processing everything in front

of her. See, we're still in the beginning stages of trying to get her to

understand PECS, instead of my homemade pictures. The fact of the matter

is, IMO, they just DON'T look like the real things and that's where she's

having difficulty.

<<So how do you plan to proceed? She has made great gains!>>

Yep, she has. I am meeting on Wednesday with the teacher and ST, and we'll

discuss all my concerns, and I'll get a better idea of what goals THEY have

in mind for her. I *think* Janet is in favor of going BACK to homemade

pics, but I don't know if that's what I want. The idea is for her to GET

the universal form of PECS!! RIGHT???? I want to find a way to get her to

do that!!! I do have Picture This and really like that one. They DO seem

to be clearer and easier to understand....we'll see. She yanks the

picture off the board quick as lightening...hands it over with amazing speed

when she's really hungry. But then she'll eat ANYTHING at that point, so it

doesn't matter what her choice would ahve been. LOLOL

<<Thanks Donna. When is yours again? I have no idea when mine is now.

Candy

wants to have the *other* meeting first, which I'm still not too sure of.

LOL It was supposed to be next week.>>

Geez Gail. I hope they do it soon, so you can get this figured out!!!!!

Mine is October 30th, a Tuesday.

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/01 3:44:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

gboughton@... writes:

> Ted is still using pictures of the real thing. You need to advance to

> symbols because it is harder. Why don't you use real pictures with Maddie?

> Gail

>

We did Gail. Then moved to PECS pictures. I don't think she's made the

connection yet. I still use real pics naturally for some things, like the

picture of her cab driver, and her classroom, and Grandmoms. But we were

trying to bring her around to the more universal PECS version. maybe it'll

just take more time.

DOnna

[Guest guest]

<<See, we're still in the beginning stages of trying to get her to

understand PECS, instead of my homemade pictures. The fact of the matter

is, IMO, they just DON'T look like the real things and that's where she's

having difficulty. >>

Hi Donna,

Ted is still using pictures of the real thing. You need to advance to

symbols because it is harder. Why don't you use real pictures with Maddie?

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/01 6:35:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

dben937342@... writes:

<< Gail & Donna,

I noticed that you have IEP meetings in the Fall. Is this standard for you.

We will also be having an IEP but it is because we have new information frrm

evaluations done over the summer which we would like implemented. Actually

we

are still waiting on some info to come. The schools usually have Spring IEPs

for the following year. Did you find the Fall IEP helpful or do you just

meet

regularly? I just really dislike IEP meetings. Just curious. I want to do

the

right thing for my child. Also do you fine the dual diagnosis helpful as a

label? Are the teachers more understanding?

Diane (mom to Rochelle-ds and Danny)

>>

Diane,

We actually had our first IEP in August, but are now working on reviews of

that IEP. I am beginning to think like (was it ?) that the fall ones

would be better. Give things a try and maybe to our surprise they might

work. If not, they can be changed after that trial period before the IEP.

No, I don't find the duel dx helpful because no one here believes it. Well,

it did get him into the structured program, which wouldn't have happened

without the dx. But, then again, maybe he would do better not being in the

program. I'm confused! LOL

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

Donna-----

When you say " PECS " pictures do you mean symbols like the ones from

Mayer-? How are they making these symbols?

Why do I ask? Because you can import *photos* into Boardmaker and then they

are easy to make little choice cards and stuff. If you can afford it, I

think you would really benefit from Boardmaker. Or...... " Picture This. "

Have you tried that one yet? It's photos of many typical things like shoes

and toys, and brushing teeth or whatever. It might help her generalize from

the specific photo to a general photo before a line drawing?

Just a thought.

Why does the school think she is ready for something other than photographs

of that are specific to her life? I still use photos for the things I think

are too abstract. (and then the school uses too *many* photos rather than

letting him use the symbols for what he does know).

j

[Guest guest]

Or you can get pictures off the internet from some

websites, if you can't get the boardmaker, etc.

=====

My turn to learn is an invaluable guide for parents and professional who share

their lives with a child with special needs.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Well, good luck to everyone who has IEP's in the

fall. I know how they go, so good luck and hopefully

there's something positive about the IEP sesion.

=====

My turn to learn is an invaluable guide for parents and professional who share

their lives with a child with special needs.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/01 9:50:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

> When you say " PECS " pictures do you mean symbols like the ones from

> Mayer-? How are they making these symbols?

Yes Joan. They use boardmaker at school. At home, I use a combination of

the PECS pics that I ordered from the Pyramid Group, some I made from Picture

This, and some homemade ones (like her cab driver, her classroom, g-mom's

house--that kind of thing).

<<It's photos of many typical things like shoes

and toys, and brushing teeth or whatever. It might help her generalize from

the specific photo to a general photo before a line drawing?>>

Yes, I REALLY like Picture This. Duff bought it at the NDSS conference last

year. We even lent it to the teacher last year, but they apparently prefer

to use boardmaker. These are the things I'm going to talk about on

Wednesday when I meet with them, that way I'll know how I want the IEP to go

in terms of her communication skills. I dunno. Maybe I shouldn't be so

concerned with her using these symbols instead of my homemade ones. I just

think she needs to learn to understand that the picture IS the item she

wants, the same as my homemade ones! And I guess that I see us going back

to my pics as a form of regression?

Donna

[Guest guest]

Donna, I would harldy worry about " regression " . You are simply so good at

understanding what Maddie needs that it is not yet obvious to those at

school. You are using what you know works for Maddie, and that is what is

needed to help her communication skills. Period.

I will never forget one of the moms who posted back in '99 who glue-gunned

objects to a wall chart for her daughter who had the dual dx and was a

teenager. They had been told she was " too low " blah blah blah. Well,

this mom was able to teach her daughter to communicate when she wanted to

eat, drink and play, if I remember it. (cup, spoon, ball). She cut some

things in half and then mabe also gave her objects. Anyway, we must keep

in mind that to deprive our kids of any chance to communicate ( " I don't

want to give him the pictures because it will make him too lazy to talk! " )

is only a narrow-minded power struggle that adults impose on our kids.

When people hesitate to consider using pic-syms, objects, whatever, they

are thinking " I don't want to work that hard. " (Well, that is one

sub-text). Then they use the excuse about hurting the possibilities for

spoken language. For crying out loud. The next time someone makes an

excuse about communication supports, tell them that the next time *they*

get laryngitis, they will be forbidden to use their hands, and they will

have no access to paper and pen and computers. How quick does it take to

understand our kids CAN'T EASILY COMMUNCIATE, some, if not most, CAN'T USE

SPOKEN LANGUAGE. Why would we want to wait until our kids are even six

years old before giving them some form of communication support? Find out

what works, whether it is objects, photos, pictures, words, words and

pictures, symbols, sign language, gestures. Do NOT insist that they cover

a preconceived graduated steps program unless they are making really good

progress, use a system functionally, and are able to use what is considered

the next step.

MB

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/01 9:44:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.3@...

writes:

> Do NOT insist that they cover

> a preconceived graduated steps program unless they are making really good

> progress, use a system functionally, and are able to use what is considered

> the next step.

>

Thanks MB!!!!! This is the major area I will focus on wiht them. I had

this same problem with KenCrest when she was in EI. Someone just moving the

process along when Maddie hadn't even gotten through the first step!!!!

It's like trying to learn how to read without knowing the alphabet!!!!

Thanks again guys for the words of support, too. My meeting is Wednesday,

and the IEP is the following Tuesday. I'll let you know how it goes!!

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/20/01 11:54:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< Do NOT insist that they cover

> a preconceived graduated steps program unless they are making really good

> progress, use a system functionally, and are able to use what is considered

> the next step.

>

Thanks MB!!!!! This is the major area I will focus on wiht them. I had

this same problem with KenCrest when she was in EI. Someone just moving

the

process along when Maddie hadn't even gotten through the first step!!!!

It's like trying to learn how to read without knowing the alphabet!!!!

Thanks again guys for the words of support, too. My meeting is Wednesday,

and the IEP is the following Tuesday. I'll let you know how it goes!!

Donna

>>

I had the opposite problem with EI guys. Seth would still be immobile if

they didn't give up trying to get him to crawl and let him bear walk like he

wanted. I insisted they skip that step. He hated being made to get on his

knees. Cried and carried on so I said what's the difference. They said he

will always enstein walk. SO??????? He would walk! Better than all

the behavior problems and having him immobile, right? He has no problems now

crawling and jumping. Why can't they just accept what the kid can do at any

stage and work with it. So what if he didn't master crawling? He gets

around quite well! LOL Too well at times. LOL Maybe they focus too long

on some things?

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/20/01 3:24:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> So what if he didn't master crawling? He gets

> around quite well! LOL Too well at times. LOL Maybe they focus too long

> on some things?

>

For sure. Guys, my oldest, (Joe, now 20) never crawled. He shimmied on

his cute little butt. I'm telling you, this baby could cross a carpeted room

on his butt in seconds!! It was quite remarkable. We all used to laugh

and say WHERE did this come from----til my FIL (who's now 84) finally fessed

up that he too, got around that way til he became vertical!!! LOL I know

the whole child psych thing about a child going through the steps as

NECESSARY, but I don't know....my son and my fil are pretty good people and

so far aren't touched by it...;-)

Can you guys tell Duff's away and I'm spending WAY too much time online?!?!?

Allie went to my aunt's for the weekend, and it's just me, Maddie and

n. Maddie is busy rummaging through Allie's beany babies (since

Allie's not home, I'm letting her....LOL) and n is cleaning his

room..........I think (he could have fallen asleep...LOL). It's so bad up

there, I may have to call the fire department to come find him!!!!

Donna

[Guest guest]

Donna, you are tooooo funny. I am spending to much online too. Waiting for DH

to holler for me. BTW I crawled on my butt too as a baby or so I've been

told. What ever gets you there.

Diane