Re: OT: VA Tech shooter not autistic per article

[Guest guest]

Rant alert...

Children like this are " born this way " ? Those convenient genes

again. It's amazing to me that three of the things which are known

to cause " mental illness " - toxins, psychiatric drugs (also toxins)

and childhood trauma (abuse)- are rarely specifically named or

genuinely speculated on in any of the coverage of these types of

events in favor of drawing an unquestioned connection to the one

thing for which there is zero proof: genes. Why not? Genes sell

drugs; managed care doesn't want to pay for the talk therapy to deal

with trauma and abuse (not to mention that MDs and shrinks are among

the professions most likely to engage in domestic violence/abuse);

pharma and other industries don't want anyone barking up the toxin

tree. And since there IS no proof for genetic links either way,

there's no perceived liability. You can diss someone's genes in

conjecture all you want to and there's no precedent of anyone doing

anything about it (it would be great if someone sued for gene

slander one day).

None of these reports mention how many booster shots this kid got

when he emigrated. Forget about mentioning whether he grew up near a

PG & E or coal-fired power plant, etc..

Also, I have a friend who had selective mutism as a child. She was

in a car accident and broke both legs at the age of two, then her

brother was molested by a relative and her mainstream doctor father

used to beat her unconscious(one of four people I know who were

horrendously abused by their mainstream MD dads). The result was

that she stopped talking in school. But according to certain well

published members of the APA, none of those things would have caused

an anxiety disorder. Oh no, only a genetic brain chemical imbalance

could cause such a thing, which can be corrected only by drugs.

One common treatment for selective mutism is psychiatric drugs and I

still think that meds will turn out to have played a role in the

shootings. Even more than autism, one would be hard put to find

cases of simultaneous, non-militant, up-close mass murders in public

institutions before a certain date and the " copy cat " theory doesn't

explain the sudden appearance of the phenomenon.

Even if no drugs were found in Cho's system at the time of the

shooting, this doesn't mean he hadn't been on drugs long prior to

the event nor that he had not recently withdrawn. Cases of permanent

violent psychosis from even short term use of antidepressants have

been recorded. Also, only one tox screen was done for Cho's post

mortem, whereas it took repeat tests to show that had an

SSRI in his system- the first tox screening didn't detect it.

There's still an unserved FOIA request for Cho's toxicology results

which the authorities won't willingly disclose. The fact that no

drug treatments are mentioned in this article doesn't mean much

either, since there are numerous well-known cases of murder and/or

suicide in which the press never mentions the factual involvement of

psych drugs, which may only have been disclosed after a long

interim.

And there's always the vaccines again. I wonder what else had soaked

into Cho's brain, but the authorities keep squealing about the

privacy rights of Cho's family every time anyone (even the families

of VA Tech victims) asks them for specific detailed information on

the post mortem. I read in July's issue of National Geographic that

teams of forensic archealogists and millions of dollars have been

poured into deconstructing the death of the 5000 year old " Iceman "

who was found in the Italian alps. They know what the guy ate an

hour before he died, what season it was and they know how many

serious illnesses he had in his life. They can do all this but they

can't do the same thing to see what toxins are causing the epidemic

and they can't tell us whether there are common causes of current

mass murders? Obviously they could if they wanted to if they can

find out what a five thousand year old mummy used for toilet paper.

I hope the Iceman's descendents start demanding privacy rights.

>

> _http://www.washingthttp://www.htt_

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-)

> <_http://www.washingthttp://www.htt_

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-) >

> dyn/content/dyn/content/dyn/content/<WBRdyn/conten

>

> Unknown to Va. Tech, Cho Had a Disorder

> Fairfax Helped Student Cope With Anxiety

>

> By Brigid Schulte and Tim Craig

> Washington Post Staff Writers

> Monday, August 27, 2007; Page A01

>

> Fairfax County school officials determined that Seung Hui Cho

> suffered from an anxiety disorder so severe that they put him in

> special education and devised a plan to help, according to

sources

> familiar with his history, but Virginia Tech was never told of

the

> problem.

>

> The disorder made Cho unable to speak in social settings and was

> deemed an emotional disability, the sources said. When he stopped

> getting the help that Fairfax was providing, Cho became even more

> isolated and suffered severe ridicule during his four years at

> Virginia Tech, experts suggested. In his senior year, Cho killed

32

> students and faculty members and himself in the deadliest

shooting by

> an individual in U.S. history.

>

> The condition, called selective mutism, is a symptom of a larger

> social anxiety disorder. It prompted the Fairfax school system to

> develop a detailed special education plan to help ease Cho's fears

so

> he might begin to talk more openly, the sources said.

>

> Part of his individualized program in Fairfax excused Cho from

> participating in class discussions, according to the sources, who

> spoke on condition of anonymity because of the confidentiality of

> Cho's records. Another part of the plan called for private

therapy to

> resolve his underlying anxiety. The therapy and special

provisions

> were " apparently effective, " the sources said.

>

> But once Cho left the safe and highly structured high school

setting

> that had created a cocoon of support, officials at Virginia Tech

were

> never told of his condition and never addressed the issue, the

> sources said. Since the April 16 shootings, stories have emerged

from

> Cho's teachers and classmates at Virginia Tech. They say it was

> common for professors to call on Cho and for him to remain

silent.

> The teachers would become angry, and students would taunt him.

The

> severely isolated Cho began to refer to himself as " ? " . All of

this

> would have worsened his deep-seated anxiety, experts said.

>

> " Think of the image of the little kid at the end of the diving

board,

> just frozen. They can't move no matter how much we tell them to

> jump, " said Schum, a clinical psychologist and expert in

> selective mutism. " In a classroom, they feel threatened. They're

> trapped. And the more people push, the more it exacerbates the

> anxiety. "

>

> Professors and school administrators at Virginia Tech could not

have

> known of Cho's emotional disability -- Fairfax officials were

> forbidden from telling them. Federal privacy and disability laws

> prohibit high schools from sharing with colleges private

information

> such as a student's special education coding or disability,

according

> to high school and college guidance and admissions officials.

Those

> laws also prohibit colleges from asking for such information.

>

> The only way Virginia Tech officials would have known about Cho's

> anxiety and selective mutism would have been if Cho or his

parents

> told them about it and asked for accommodations to help him, as

he

> had received in Fairfax. Cho's disability was first reported in

the

> Wall Street Journal and will be explored further when a panel

> appointed by Gov. M. Kaine (D) releases an investigative

> report about the shootings.

>

> Although the only way college officials could have known about

Cho's

> problem would have been from Cho, experts said that asking for

help

> is an almost impossible task for someone with selective mutism.

>

> " Children with selective mutism don't want to be the center of

> attention. They don't like to sit on Santa's lap. They don't like

> their photo taken on picture day. They don't want kids to sing to

> them at their birthday celebration. They just want to be left

alone, "

> Schum said. " So when you put the responsibility on them and ask

them

> to draw attention to themselves by asking for help . . . that's

> really tough. "

>

> Cho's parents, although cooperative with Fairfax school

officials,

> might not have fully understood what was wrong and that their son

> needed help in college as well. As recently as last summer, Cho's

> mother had sought out members of One Mind Church in Woodbridge to

> purge him of what the pastor there called the " demonic power "

> possessing him.

>

> Cho's family said he was always a quiet, reserved child. After he

> emigrated with his parents from South Korea when he was 8, a

great-

> aunt in Korea said the boy's mother told her he had autism. " We

knew

> something was wrong, " the aunt, Kim Yang Soon, said in April.

>

> Classmates from Stone Middle School in Centreville remember some

> students making fun of Cho and his silence.

>

> " He never tried to say anything, " former classmate Sam Linton

> said. " Even when the teachers called roll, he wouldn't

say 'Present'

> or raise his hand. He just looked straight ahead. Someone else

would

> have to say 'Seung's here.' "

>

> By the time Cho entered Westfield High School in Chantilly,

classmate

> s remembers an uncomfortable sophomore English class.

> Students were taking turns reading aloud from works of

Shakespeare.

> When it was Cho's turn, he sat in silence. The teacher began to

> cajole him. Silence. Students began to snicker. The teacher

became

> angry. Silence. She threatened him with an F. Finally, Cho began

to

> read in a strange mumble.

>

> " That snickering turned to full-out laughing, " s

said. " There

> were several comments made, such as 'Go Back to ESL' -- English

as a

> Second Language class -- 'Learn how to read,' or 'Go back to

China.' "

>

> Not long after that incident, Fairfax school officials realized

that

> Cho was not merely painfully shy. Nor was he being recalcitrant

or

> passive-aggressive. He was literally too paralyzed to speak. They

put

> him in special education and devised a number of accommodations to

> help him, sources said. School officials said Cho would no longer

be

> required to answer teachers' questions or participate in

classroom

> discussions. s said that he does not recall Cho ever being

> called on after that incident.

>

> Cho was also given speech therapy. His parents were encouraged to

put

> him in private counseling, which they did. School officials

suggested

> that Cho join school clubs. He joined the band, where students

soon

> began referring to him derisively as " trombone boy. " He also

joined

> the science club.

>

> s, another member of the science club, said that although

Cho

> came to many of the club's meetings and hung out, he never

> spoke. " The teacher who was the sponsor for the club would ask him

if

> he wanted to participate in whatever we were doing, then leave

him

> alone, " s said. " If he wanted to participate, he would come

over

> and do so; otherwise, he would just sit at a desk and stare at

the

> desk. "

>

> Although most students are given special education services

because

> their disability makes it more difficult for them to do well

> academically, that is generally not the case with selective

mutism,

> Schum said. Indeed, classmates remember Cho as intelligent and

> capable of getting good grades.

>

> Fairfax school officials would not speak about Cho directly,

citing

> privacy laws. They said, however, that a team of psychologists

had

> studied selective mutism in detail, worked with several children

and

> felt it had made " significant progress " with the students.

>

> Ellie , director of student services for the Fairfax

schools,

> said the best treatment for the disorder includes private

counseling

> to unearth the emotional issues or anxiety that is causing it.

The

> county complements that with " desensitization therapy, " exposing

> children to their phobia in small increments " so they can

understand

> the irrationalization of that phobia. "

>

> But none of that care and level of detail was transferred to

Virginia

> Tech.

>

> Crowley, coordinator of guidance services for Fairfax,

said

> high schools generally send transcripts to colleges with only a

> student's courses, grades and test scores. Race, sex, religion

and

> even the number of times a student has been suspended are

considered

> optional pieces of information that a student can choose to

disclose.

> The only way college officials could tell if a student had been

in

> special education would be by looking at the classes the student

> took. Basic Skills is a fairly common special education class.

>

> " We don't send anything that has to do with special education, "

> Crowley said. " If the parent, who has the authority, wants us to

> disclose to colleges that the student was in a special-ed

program, we

> can do that and send whatever records they want. But that doesn't

> happen very often. "

>

> The reason, explained Barmak Nassirian, with the American

Association

> of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, is that in the

> competitive admissions process, students don't want to be at a

> disadvantage. As recently as 2003, parental pressure caused the

> College Board to stop flagging SAT scores for students who had

been

> given special education accommodations while taking the test.

>

> Moreover, many colleges say they don't want to know because of

the

> potential liability. " In soliciting a student's history of

> psychiatric treatment or diagnoses by treating physicians, you

> basically open a Pandora's box, " Nassirian said. " Even if you

should

> decide, for reasons that have nothing to do with medical

> circumstances, not to accept a student, you most certainly will

have

> a case that will be litigated. "

>

> For students who are accepted and disclose their disability, most

> colleges and universities have services to provide appropriate

> accommodations, said Flagel, dean of admissions at

> Mason University.

>

> Schum said selective mutism, which can be treated successfully,

had

> never been associated with violent behavior. Most of the

children,

> teens and young adults who suffer from the disorder -- about 1

> percent of the U.S. population -- are simply born that way. They

come

> from families where anxieties tend to run high.

>

> One technique Schum said he has found particularly effective in

> helping children overcome their mutism is videotaping. Children

can

> be videotaped reading aloud at home and then can take the tape to

> their teacher to be graded. Or the student can be videotaped

giving a

> show-and-tell presentation to share with the class.

>

> So Schum was not at all surprised when the world finally heard

Cho

> speak in a setting of his choosing, on the strange and violent

tape

> he sent to NBC News. " He was not autistic. He clearly had the

> capability of talking to people, " Schum said. " We saw that on the

> video. "

>

> Staff writer Sari Horwitz and staff researchers Magda Jean-Louis

and

> Meg contributed to this report.

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

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>

[Guest guest]

I wonder what the rates of things like selective mutism were prior

to amping up the number of vaccines and the toxins in them? What

amazes me about all the poisons being poured into children is that

they appear to be producing a shortcut to behaviors and debilitating

anxiety which formerly took catastrophic child abuse and inhuman

neglect to produce. So we do everything we're supposed to do as far

as home environment and child rearing and our kids are struck down

with all kinds of ailments all the same.

>

> I have no idea about what happened to Cho, but I doubt very much

that he was " born that way " , even though he was already experiencing

difficulty before he had left Korea as a youngster. I have come

across a few children who were labelled with selective mutism in the

last few years, and none of them have come close to exhibiting

anywhere near the same degree of difficulty. My oldest son was

labelled as a selective mute while he was in Junior Kindergarten.

After that school year, I sent him and his younger brother to a

summer school program, hoping that the presence of his much more

outgoing younger brother would help him relax enough to be able to

converse more easily with other children. At the outset, my plan

failed miserably. The younger sibling talked with just about

everyone in the class, except his own older brother, until one week

when I found them both almost fighting over making friends with

another young boy in the class. They had both made friends with his

other

> boy, and were having a difficult time in finding a way to share

their time with him.

> However, what made the biggest difference for my oldest son

that summer, was having an educational assistant in his class who

took interest in him and managed to use humor to help him break the

ice, so to speak, regarding his not talking in class. She was

wonderful! She spent time joking around with him, even when he had

nothing to say to her! And then, one day, the floodgates opened, and

he started talking to her in class, even with other children around.

I was overwhelmed with relief and gratitude! I was glad that my son

managed to find a way out of " selective mutism " without medication,

but at the same time, he wasn't totally out of the woods yet, as he

was later diagnosed with Asperger's later in his teens. His

Aspergerish signs became more evident when he was in Grade 7, the

year most kids in Ontario receive thimerosal-containing hepatitis B

shots at school.

>

> Aasa

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did read in an article that someone said he was a fragile child -

as a youngster he got pneumonia and whooping cough - not sure in US

or abroad, I'm guessing abroad. If he had a compromised immune

system - which he probably would have having these - and immigrated

to the US and got a whole slew of shots, that would have made his

health, physical and mental even more compromised.

Diane

> >

> > I have no idea about what happened to Cho, but I doubt very much

> that he was " born that way " , even though he was already

experiencing

> difficulty before he had left Korea as a youngster. I have come

> across a few children who were labelled with selective mutism in

the

> last few years, and none of them have come close to exhibiting

> anywhere near the same degree of difficulty. My oldest son was

> labelled as a selective mute while he was in Junior Kindergarten.

> After that school year, I sent him and his younger brother to a

> summer school program, hoping that the presence of his much more

> outgoing younger brother would help him relax enough to be able to

> converse more easily with other children. At the outset, my plan

> failed miserably. The younger sibling talked with just about

> everyone in the class, except his own older brother, until one

week

> when I found them both almost fighting over making friends with

> another young boy in the class. They had both made friends with

his

> other

> > boy, and were having a difficult time in finding a way to share

> their time with him.

> > However, what made the biggest difference for my oldest

son

> that summer, was having an educational assistant in his class who

> took interest in him and managed to use humor to help him break

the

> ice, so to speak, regarding his not talking in class. She was

> wonderful! She spent time joking around with him, even when he had

> nothing to say to her! And then, one day, the floodgates opened,

and

> he started talking to her in class, even with other children

around.

> I was overwhelmed with relief and gratitude! I was glad that my

son

> managed to find a way out of " selective mutism " without

medication,

> but at the same time, he wasn't totally out of the woods yet, as

he

> was later diagnosed with Asperger's later in his teens. His

> Aspergerish signs became more evident when he was in Grade 7, the

> year most kids in Ontario receive thimerosal-containing hepatitis

B

> shots at school.

> >

> > Aasa

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm finding all this new information about vaccines increasing

testosterone really compelling. Cho was described as having a

freakishly deep, booming voice at a young age. The description went

beyond just a " rusty voice " from someone who was self-conscious

about talking. I wonder if the fact that he started out with high

testosterone could have made the impact of vaccine/environmental

toxins more severe or whether the vaccines themselves exaggerated

the effects of testosterone and effected his voice.

> > >

> > > I have no idea about what happened to Cho, but I doubt very

much

> > that he was " born that way " , even though he was already

> experiencing

> > difficulty before he had left Korea as a youngster. I have come

> > across a few children who were labelled with selective mutism in

> the

> > last few years, and none of them have come close to exhibiting

> > anywhere near the same degree of difficulty. My oldest son was

> > labelled as a selective mute while he was in Junior

Kindergarten.

> > After that school year, I sent him and his younger brother to a

> > summer school program, hoping that the presence of his much more

> > outgoing younger brother would help him relax enough to be able

to

> > converse more easily with other children. At the outset, my plan

> > failed miserably. The younger sibling talked with just about

> > everyone in the class, except his own older brother, until one

> week

> > when I found them both almost fighting over making friends with

> > another young boy in the class. They had both made friends with

> his

> > other

> > > boy, and were having a difficult time in finding a way to

share

> > their time with him.

> > > However, what made the biggest difference for my oldest

> son

> > that summer, was having an educational assistant in his class

who

> > took interest in him and managed to use humor to help him break

> the

> > ice, so to speak, regarding his not talking in class. She was

> > wonderful! She spent time joking around with him, even when he

had

> > nothing to say to her! And then, one day, the floodgates opened,

> and

> > he started talking to her in class, even with other children

> around.

> > I was overwhelmed with relief and gratitude! I was glad that my

> son

> > managed to find a way out of " selective mutism " without

> medication,

> > but at the same time, he wasn't totally out of the woods yet, as

> he

> > was later diagnosed with Asperger's later in his teens. His

> > Aspergerish signs became more evident when he was in Grade 7,

the

> > year most kids in Ontario receive thimerosal-containing

hepatitis

> B

> > shots at school.

> > >

> > > Aasa

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Simon Baron Cohen is doing much research into this area. His science

makes a lot of sense when he stays away from his geeks-get-lucky

conjectures, no doubt inspired by his cousin Sasha and sticks with

endocrine systems. He has noticed that boys with autism have too high

testosterone levels, but avoids connecting that to vaccines and

mercury. Being in the UK, perhaps he is trying to avoid the Wakefield

treatment.

Anecdotally, I see much more signs of toxicity from too much estrogen,

or pseudo-estrogens in the environment than I see from testosterone.

At the skating rink where my son and I go for exercise, there are just

too many ten-year old + girls that appear far too long too early into

pubescences. It is weird to observe -- fully grown but miniature

adult female humans with yet only the mush-for-brains of a ten year

old. It is akin to the oddness one experiences looking at 4 foot high

miniature ponies. It looks like a camera trick only there's no camera.

What I do not see are 10 year old boys with mustaches or nascent

beards -- signs of too much testosterone. (Their ages get revealed by

age-grouped skating games and events).

Add to that is the popular culture, especially musical lyrics, that

promotes up dog behavior and the best model for human sexuality. I

strongly suspect that pedophiles are running the music recording

industry. Maybe they're just plain old capitalist predators lusting

after quarterly results. The free market may have its own correcting

mechanisms for corporate excesses, the problem is too many children

get ground up into hamburger waiting for the course correction.

Besides, objectivism was invented by Asperger types. (Libertarians

don't have a chance.)

Lenny

>

> I'm finding all this new information about vaccines increasing

> testosterone really compelling. Cho was described as having a

> freakishly deep, booming voice at a young age. The description went

> beyond just a " rusty voice " from someone who was self-conscious

> about talking. I wonder if the fact that he started out with high

> testosterone could have made the impact of vaccine/environmental

> toxins more severe or whether the vaccines themselves exaggerated

> the effects of testosterone and effected his voice.

[Guest guest]

You know, I'd read about the squeaky voice issue with ASD and I've

never actually encountered it in a boy. Lots of new information to

integrate here. The plot thickens.

> >

> > I'm finding all this new information about vaccines increasing

> > testosterone really compelling. Cho was described as having a

> > freakishly deep, booming voice at a young age. The description

went

> > beyond just a " rusty voice " from someone who was self-conscious

> > about talking. I wonder if the fact that he started out with

high

> > testosterone could have made the impact of vaccine/environmental

> > toxins more severe or whether the vaccines themselves

exaggerated

> > the effects of testosterone and effected his voice.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not

web links.

>

[Guest guest]

I've heard a lot of theories on the early puberty issue. Here's a

few more: a acquaintance went through fertility treatment before

having her twin boys the same year that we had our twins. As some

people know, part of the treatment is to astronomically increase

estrogen through various chemical manipulations, but one of the

reasons that pregnancies resulting from treatment can be threatened

is because androgen levels in the uterine environment rise

exponentially as a backlash response to overly high estrogen. She's

wondered if this is why her boys are such a wrecking crew (NT

though). I perceived she wasn't really open to hearing about how

that possibly increased testosterone might be synergistic with

mercury and other chemicals in vaccines and the environment and

could lend to aggression.

The idea that too much estrogen can actually produce too much

testosterone (if this is true) raises some obvious questions. Has

there been any correlation between fertility treatment and increased

chance of a child developing autism? Obviously IVF couldn't be the

cause of the epidemic, but I'm wondering if its increase could be

adding to the statistics. Could prenatal (or later) exposure to BPA

and other toxic estrogenic substances cause this kind of

testosterone backlash? Does testosterone cause early puberty in

girls? Any endocrinologists around?

And here's another theory which ties into your remarks about crappy

pop culture, Lenny. I don't remember if this theory was derived from

actual research. It postulated that some children go into

excessively early puberty in response to abusive home environments.

This makes sense from the point of view of species survival: if your

home sucks, you'd better hurry up and get ready to be independent

and get out. If this theory is true (not saying it is), it might be

conceivable that violent films and overtly sexual content in media

could be subconsciously so traumatic to some children that these

things somehow hit the same " note " that an actually abusive home

environment might have created. I know from school that PTSD

directly effects the hormone feedback system.

Which leads back to the discussion about PTSD and ASD children. This

is a little far-fetched, but I wonder if the trauma of illness and

chemically induced anxiety from vaccine injuries can also impact

hormones, though if this were at all true, it couldn't be to the

degree which chemicals are effecting hormones.

And finally, here's another bit which I really don't know how to fit

into the bigger picture. My mother in law said that, in South

America, in places closest to the equator, puberty is typically

years earlier than in more temperate zones. But the other thing

which happens closer to the equator is increased poverty. She

mentioned that, in Venezuela, children from the poorest barrios

clearly seem to walk and talk and do everything much earlier than

their better-off peers because, as she puts it, they have to to

survive. I don't know if this is true.

> >

> > I'm finding all this new information about vaccines increasing

> > testosterone really compelling. Cho was described as having a

> > freakishly deep, booming voice at a young age. The description

went

> > beyond just a " rusty voice " from someone who was self-conscious

> > about talking. I wonder if the fact that he started out with

high

> > testosterone could have made the impact of vaccine/environmental

> > toxins more severe or whether the vaccines themselves

exaggerated

> > the effects of testosterone and effected his voice.

>

[Guest guest]

Or, it might just be easier to notice the chest on a 10-y-o girl then

all the hair an 8-y-o boy.

CGF

> >

> > I'm finding all this new information about vaccines increasing

> > testosterone really compelling. Cho was described as having a

> > freakishly deep, booming voice at a young age. The description

went

> > beyond just a " rusty voice " from someone who was self-conscious

> > about talking. I wonder if the fact that he started out with high

> > testosterone could have made the impact of vaccine/environmental

> > toxins more severe or whether the vaccines themselves exaggerated

> > the effects of testosterone and effected his voice.

>

[Guest guest]

Soy is a regression-trigger for our son and appears to have a

morphinizing effect on him with a backlash of sleeplessness. Before

I even knew that, we avoided it because we'd heard that it's hard on

the kidneys or liver and because of the phyto-estrogens in it that

you mentioned, which are said to be there in order to prevent the

animals which eat soy from breeding. One study reported that male

rats prenatally exposed to merely trace amounts of the genustein

(sp?) in soy are born with malformed and dysfunctional " aparatus " . I

take it that the estrogen in soy is a bit like the deterrant poison

in poison ivy but slower acting and generational. Also, almost all

nonorganic soy is genetically modified.

>

> There is a theory floating around that early puberty in girls and

later

> puberty in boys might be is occurring b/c of the increase in soy

in our

> diets.

>

> SO many babies are put on soy formula now, for now good reason.

The

> hospital I had Liam at told me the recommend soy since I was

planning on

> breast feeding. I asked them to defend their position and they

really

> didn't have a good defense.

>

> Don't tell a breast feeding mother to supplement at all.

>

> And all formula is the devil anyway. Turns out my boobs are for

fun only,

> not function, as for both boys my milk never came in.

>

>

>

> Gavin had awful food allergies. I didn't know back then what I

know now

> about it all -of course. But I turned to soy b/c that helped. at

first. And

> when he went into a non-eating phase for two years all he would

eat was soy

> formula. I thought this was good at the time.

>

>

>

> For Liam I would mix milk based with soy. He was allergic to the

milk too

> but when soy is your alternative.

>

>

>

> I am not sure if I buy into the theory completely, but there is

probably

> some merit to it. There is a lot of estrogens in soy.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

Behalf Of

> schaferatsprynet

> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:54 PM

> EOHarm

> Subject: Re: OT: VA Tech shooter not autistic per article

>

>

>

> Simon Baron Cohen is doing much research into this area. .

>

[Guest guest]

The thing that really bugs the heck out of me about Cho is this.

All these years we've been hearing about how there wasn't really an

increase in autism, just diagnostic substitution. And somebody

publishes a study or a report or whatever you want to call it and they

say " oh look, the incidence of mental retardation is down this many

percent and the incidence of autism is up the same percent! There it

is, the proof that there's diagnostic substitution! " .

I haven't looked closely at the evidence for or against diagnostic

substitution, but a claim like that seems damned simplistic to me. I

might just as well say " oh look, the incidence of herpes is down the

same amount that the incidence of autism is up. That must mean all of

those people we thought had autism really have herpes. " (And now

they're claiming that bipolar disorder, too, is over diagnosed.)

The only reason for jumping to such a simplistic conclusion it seems

to me is that there's such a similarity in the symptoms for the

disorders. Certainly if the `experts' can make the claim that mental

retardation has been mistaken as autism, one could reasonably make the

claim that a lot selective mutism might have been. I'd be curious to

know what someone like Blaxill might see in these numbers.

What particularly bothers me is the statement on the selective mutism

foundation website that there's no relationship between autism and

selective mutism. And yet, you have reports of Cho's mother telling

people that she was told that her son might be autistic. And you have

lots of speculation that Cho might have been autistic. When in

reality, apparently, he had selective mutism.

I have a child who, at the age of three, was taken to a gastro

intestinal specialist who told us she might be autistic. And I have a

son whose teacher, a few years ago, suggested to me that he might have

selective mutism. And yet, this is merely a coincidence, because

there's no relations hip between autism and selective mutism.

Robin Nemeth

[Guest guest]

>

> The only reason for jumping to such a simplistic conclusion it seems

> to me is that there's such a similarity in the symptoms for the

> disorders. Certainly if the `experts' can make the claim that mental

> retardation has been mistaken as autism, one could reasonably make the

> claim that a lot selective mutism might have been.

actually, what I really meant to suggest was that the reverse might be

happening. A lot of autism might be being misdiagnosed as selective

mutism. If the health care experts wanted to get the numbers down for

autism, this would be one conceivable way they could do it it seems to

me...

[Guest guest]

>

> I have seen videos of children with selective mutism and they do not

exhibit the other autistic traits that we see so often with our

children. generally they are very reserved -on the surface anyhow.

Other autistic traits like what? Like flapping? I've seen walk

around with his hands out away from his body 'flapping' altho it's

mostly just a movement of his fingers, not his whole hand. Is it a

sign of autism? I dunno. Gastro intestinal problems? His DO said his

stomach problems could be migraines. " Sometimes migraines can present

as stomach problems " , he said. The kid is sick, and I don't really

care what his doctor decides to call it if the label isn't going to

help to come up with something that will fix it.

Oh well, I don't want to overly fixate on my childrens' medical

problems. They'll think I'm one of those overly nervous parents that

are the cause of selective mutism. As opposed to those cold,

uninvolved mothers that're the cause of autism. Such a fine line I

have to walk, sheesh...

I think it's kind of interesting, tho, that just when a study is done

that shows low glutathione levels linked with bipolar disorder,

another study pops up saying that oh well bipolar disorder, like

autism, has been way over diagnosed and so the incidence isn't really

the serious problem everyone thinks it is.

At any rate I've felt that the chit is really going to hit the fan

when somebody looks at the incidence of ALL SORTS of disorders in the

unvaccinated population, and compares it to the vaccinated population.

If that ever gets done.

[Guest guest]

Bipolar disorder has ALWAYS been overdiagnosed, so I suppose you

could regard the increase as genuine because of this.

It really requires a hard look at the drug companies' history of

shenanigans in promoting certain " disorders " merely to sell drugs to

get a clear idea of how truly criminal putting thimerosal into

vaccines is. Many diagnoses, like ADHD, were literally invented in

order to sell stimulants. Then, whoops, it became a self-fulfiling

prophesy as vaccine toxins created the appearance of the disorders.

But there's absolutely ZERO objective lab tests - including brain

scans, which are bogus- to determine any of these disorders.

They're just behavior.

I think Breggin put it well when he said that, if thyroid is

causing certain behavior, then it's not ADHD or any psycyiatric

disorder requiring psych drugs, it's thyroid disorder and requires

thyroid medication. The same for lead poisoning causing attentional

issues; it's lead poisoning, not ADHD, and requires treatment for

lead.

I think the altmed community gets into trouble by wholeheartedly

accepting labels that have only ever meant " psychiatric disorder "

for which cause is assumed to exist in the brain and the symptoms of

which can be changed with the fashions or to suit a new drug. The

fact that these labels are insurance codes or required as a starting

point for treatment by all kinds of doctors- allopathic and

naturopathic- doesn't help. It confuses things. We have to take

these labels, the ever-changing diagnostic requirements for them and

the rise and fall of diagnoses with a huge grain of salt. There are

millions of completely NT children who have been diagnosed with

ADHD, bipolar disorder, etc., for many reasons. Sometimes they're

bright and rebellious and parents and teachers seek chemical

controls. Sometimes the child has been abused and displays symptoms

of PTSD which are relabelled (with the abusive parents

understandable blessings, since PTSD would imply abuse) as ADHD or

bipolar.

And of course there's the victims of the drug companies' self-

fulfilling prophesy who've been damaged by environmental poisons,

antibiotics, etc.. No wonder some people believe that thimerosal was

kept in vaccines deliberately: it's a cash cow of disordered

children with more than just illusory or subjectively determined

symptoms, the majority of which will never see an altmed physician

or get dx'ed with heavy metal poisoning. Instead they'll just be

placed on heavy psych drugs.

>

> The thing that really bugs the heck out of me about Cho is this.

>

> All these years we've been hearing about how there wasn't really an

> increase in autism, just diagnostic substitution. And somebody

> publishes a study or a report or whatever you want to call it and

they

> say " oh look, the incidence of mental retardation is down this many

> percent and the incidence of autism is up the same percent! There

it

> is, the proof that there's diagnostic substitution! " .

>

> I haven't looked closely at the evidence for or against diagnostic

> substitution, but a claim like that seems damned simplistic to me.

I

> might just as well say " oh look, the incidence of herpes is down

the

> same amount that the incidence of autism is up. That must mean all

of

> those people we thought had autism really have herpes. " (And now

> they're claiming that bipolar disorder, too, is over diagnosed.)

>

> The only reason for jumping to such a simplistic conclusion it

seems

> to me is that there's such a similarity in the symptoms for the

> disorders. Certainly if the `experts' can make the claim that

mental

> retardation has been mistaken as autism, one could reasonably make

the

> claim that a lot selective mutism might have been. I'd be curious

to

> know what someone like Blaxill might see in these numbers.

>

> What particularly bothers me is the statement on the selective

mutism

> foundation website that there's no relationship between autism and

> selective mutism. And yet, you have reports of Cho's mother telling

> people that she was told that her son might be autistic. And you

have

> lots of speculation that Cho might have been autistic. When in

> reality, apparently, he had selective mutism.

>

> I have a child who, at the age of three, was taken to a gastro

> intestinal specialist who told us she might be autistic. And I

have a

> son whose teacher, a few years ago, suggested to me that he might

have

> selective mutism. And yet, this is merely a coincidence, because

> there's no relations hip between autism and selective mutism.

>

> Robin Nemeth

>

[Guest guest]

It would be better if they tested for the environmental toxin which

caused the attentional problems, right? I hope he gets alternative

opinions.

Using EEG to determine ADHD isn't new, it was just never legitimate

and still isn't, even if they stick the electrodes over a " different

part of the brain " or whatever. The EEG might be measuring

something, but- if isn't seizures- that " something " would also be

present in perfectly normal kids, a kid who has to go to the

bathroom, forgot to do his/her homework and is nervous, a kid who

has lice, drank a Jolt soda, etc.. It signifies everything and

nothing at all. If what is being measured is mild pre-epileptic

seizures or something of that nature, then again it's " seizures " ,

not " ADHD " even if seizures cause attentional problems. If lead

causes an overall depression of brain activity, it's lead poisoning,

not " ADHD " , etc.. I hate the fact that some DAN doctors are

borrowing from this drug company-concocted crap pseudo-science.

Most of the supposedly independent research on use of scans and

EEG's for " ADHD " and other mental illnesses were actually not

controlled for test subjects who'd been previously exposed to

psychiatric drugs, so any abnormal results were inevitably measuring

the effects of drugs on the brain, not of " underlying disorders " .

Read Fred Baughman's reports on the " brain scan scam " , and Drs.

Grace , Healy and Breggin for more information on

drug company research schemes.

> >

> > The thing that really bugs the heck out of me about Cho is this.

> >

> > All these years we've been hearing about how there wasn't really

an

> > increase in autism, just diagnostic substitution. And somebody

> > publishes a study or a report or whatever you want to call it

and

> they

> > say " oh look, the incidence of mental retardation is down this

many

> > percent and the incidence of autism is up the same percent!

There

> it

> > is, the proof that there's diagnostic substitution! " .

> >

> > I haven't looked closely at the evidence for or against

diagnostic

> > substitution, but a claim like that seems damned simplistic to

me.

> I

> > might just as well say " oh look, the incidence of herpes is down

> the

> > same amount that the incidence of autism is up. That must mean

all

> of

> > those people we thought had autism really have herpes. " (And now

> > they're claiming that bipolar disorder, too, is over diagnosed.)

> >

> > The only reason for jumping to such a simplistic conclusion it

> seems

> > to me is that there's such a similarity in the symptoms for the

> > disorders. Certainly if the `experts' can make the claim that

> mental

> > retardation has been mistaken as autism, one could reasonably

make

> the

> > claim that a lot selective mutism might have been. I'd be

curious

> to

> > know what someone like Blaxill might see in these numbers.

> >

> > What particularly bothers me is the statement on the selective

> mutism

> > foundation website that there's no relationship between autism

and

> > selective mutism. And yet, you have reports of Cho's mother

telling

> > people that she was told that her son might be autistic. And you

> have

> > lots of speculation that Cho might have been autistic. When in

> > reality, apparently, he had selective mutism.

> >

> > I have a child who, at the age of three, was taken to a gastro

> > intestinal specialist who told us she might be autistic. And I

> have a

> > son whose teacher, a few years ago, suggested to me that he

might

> have

> > selective mutism. And yet, this is merely a coincidence, because

> > there's no relations hip between autism and selective mutism.

> >

> > Robin Nemeth

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative

vehicles.

> Visit the Auto Green Center.

>