Re: Dini- what is neurodiversity

[Guest guest]

Neurodiversity = those diagnosed with a DSM disorder, off their meds. Tom Cruise on Oprah was a great example. <ahem> Sophia Bice <aware4autism@...> wrote: Taken from wikipedia-"Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human difference that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human difference.[1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic individuals and

people with related conditions, who believe that autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their original personalities and replacing them with different people. This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such names as "abnormal", "disabled", among others. Neurodiversity is the preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way intellectual disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental speech disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people."check out http://neurodiversity.com/

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

[Guest guest]

" normal human difference... "

Normal AFTER being severely injured by vaccines or other environmental triggers.

Injuries

that are recoverable if proper treatments and therapies are put in place early

enough.

Most of those in neurodiversity aren't really the low-functioning, severe

autistics that

many of our children are. But they use the label " autism " to describe

themselves. Often

times we're arguing over the same label but really two very different states of

being.

I wholeheartedly reject neurodiversity as a concept. But I accept all people for

who they

are. I do not equate their medical problems... and how those medical problems

affected

brain development to WHO they really are inside. Autism and the person are

separate. If a

person is missing a limb... you give them a prosthetic so they can gain

mobility. You do

anything you can to give that person all the capabilities and opportunities that

they can

possibly have. So if something I can do to correct my child's biology (and cure

her gut

injury/disbiosis, etc. remove toxic metals and provide vital nutritional

supplements, etc.)

and give her brain what it needs to develop as it needs to will make her more

" normal " and

give her a leg up... then I'm going for it. No matter where she " ends up " she

will be loved.

I think the neurodiverse are all feeling " unloved " because we're trying to heal

our children.

That's messed up.

>

> Taken from wikipedia-

>

> " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human difference

> that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human difference.

> [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is the

> preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way intellectual

> disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental speech

> disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

>

> check out http://neurodiversity.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, my daughter loves to jump on the couch! And the bed... and the

trampoline...

> Taken from wikipedia-

>

> " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human difference

> that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human difference.

> [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is the

> preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way intellectual

> disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental speech

> disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

>

> check out http://neurodiversity.com/

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

>

[Guest guest]

Tom Cruise is not neurodiverse, he is just a wacked out scientologist

big difference

many don't need meds, in fact they usually don't have the desired

effect in many on the spectrum

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that explanantion. Now all those Google alerts (based

on the keyword autism) from neurodiverse blogs makes sense. I read a

lot of angry stuff coming through on these - almost ranting. That

part of it is akin to autism because they sound quite frustrated,

misunderstood and quite focused on themselves and yet unlike people

like my daughter, are able to verbalise their feelings about other

people's views quite clearly. Even if they are happy with the way

they are, why feel inclined to get drawn into debates over what

other families are doing for their loved ones? I guess personality

plays a role too - aggressive types may be more vitriolic than

placid types. I find it quite interesting that they tee up with

mainstream medical bloggers with their rhetoric about herd immunity.

So do they seek endorsement from mainstream doctors or are these

medical bloggers manipulating the pent-up feelings of these

neurodiverse individuals towards society? Who is influencing whom -

food for thought?

>

> Taken from wikipedia-

>

> " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human difference

> that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

difference.

> [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is

the

> preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

intellectual

> disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental speech

> disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

>

> check out http://neurodiversity.com/

>

[Guest guest]

,

This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist isn't

nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many things in

the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or more

severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the neurodiverse

are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as necessary

for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know how to

run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind needs to

rely on our social animal less each decade.

The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot accept

a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them. That is

why I think something different is now happening to cause

neurotypicals to have children with autistic symptoms.

Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents just

cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

I have seen purpose behind most of Jade's actions. What some

consider stimming, for example, picking fluff and blowing it, is

actually learning the very complex processes of math and physics. I

used to love to pick fluff out of things, couches, pillows, etc, and

watch them float, noting the speed and rate of descension of the

various sizes of fluff.

Many of what I found were signs of autism, were not so odd in my

family. No one was alarmed that Jade was stacking blocks 3 feet

high, or could play with the same toy for hours until she mastered

it. We could instantly understand when something was too loud and

upset her, because it bothered us, too. Jade flapping her hands was

never odd to us. I was actually surprised to learn that many things

I always considered normal, were actually considered " abnormal " , and

signs of autism.

Each time I leave Wal-mart- I feel I need to take a xanax. I hate

that place, I get dazed, confused, and have often just left my

shopping cart as I was about to have what I always thought were

anxiety attacks.

I do agree that Asperger's and autism while being on the same

spectrum, are worlds apart. Yet both are on the same " spectrum " .

This is where the neurodiverse crowd and I differ.

At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates

has a broken brain that needs fixing.

The neurodiverse are not feeling unloved because you want to help

your children. I discovered this when explaining WHY I am using

biomed for Jade. I would be estatic if in 2 yrs she came away with

the label of Asperger's. I don't want her to have communication

problems, facial tics, immune and gi dysfunction, and most agree

with this. That is what I am trying to " fix " in giving Jade

supplements.

There are a great number of parents though, that will try anything,

and stop at nothing to make their child " normal " , when in all

actuality there is no definition of " normal " . (personally, I feel

that what is called " normal " is absolutely sickeningly BORING).

The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because there

are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are different

from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

them?

Think back to your school days, I'm sure everyone knew of the

incredibly smart kid, who had an inhaler, and got sick a bit more.

He was different, but not so different that he could not function

through life. He was probably often shunned for acting weird, though.

I think much of what the movement equates to is, so what if a person

cannot communicate like you, and rocks when they think, or need

to " take a break " . What if this person can design the most fabulous

bridges (or windows operating systems) known to man? Don't let their

differences hold them back from their true greatness. Accept them

for their assets, not shun them for their differences.

Unfortunately, this is what happens with our educational system and

society.

I have also read many articles and studies detailing the amount of

illness and allergies in the gifted, have they always been

mislabeled as gifted, rather than on the spectrum?

I do agree that there has been a significant increase in severe

autism. Just ask any school system in this country. Most mainstream

the high functioning, or those labeled with Asperger's. (as most

cannot accomodate these children) We are getting better at

identifying these kids, and making accomodations. But you cannot

ignore the fact that the autistic programs have grown, and the

schools cannot keep up with the influx. Why is that, if there has

not been a true increase in autism?

To put it mildly, aspergers is increasing due to better dx, and

expanding criteria. Severe, or " classic autism " (what Jade was dx

with) is increasing- IMO because of various toxins, and viruses.

Biologically, and mentally the neurodiverse are different.

Unfortunately, something (my guess thimerosal) has caused the same

immune dysfunction in your children that many on the spectrum have,

and due to viral insults, it has caused the same autistic symptoms

Jade has.

Remember, there is much to learn about autism. I am certain that

they will find many subgroups on the spectrum, within each

functioning level. How they got to that place on the spectrum is

most likely different as well. That is why this genetic hide and

seek game has hit genes all over the genome.

I am also careful to note that these are my personal views and

feelings, I do not speak for any group of people, as there are

numerous varied opinions on both sides of this debacle.

I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

children.

> >

> > Taken from wikipedia-

> >

> > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

difference

> > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

difference.

> > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is

the

> > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

intellectual

> > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

speech

> > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

> >

> > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

or a spolied hollywood actor

>

> Tom Cruise is not neurodiverse, he is just a wacked out scientologist

>

> big difference

>

> many don't need meds, in fact they usually don't have the desired

> effect in many on the spectrum

>

[Guest guest]

, now that was an impressive response (as with all of your

responses). I may not agree with everything you say, but I sure do

respect your opinion. Very nice reading your perspective. Very

interesting, indded.

> > >

> > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > >

> > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> difference

> > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> difference.

> > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> > > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe

that

> > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > > original personalities and replacing them with different

people.

> > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over

such

> > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity

is

> the

> > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> intellectual

> > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

> speech

> > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

people. "

> > >

> > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, believe it or not I find your post very racist. Extremely!

Explaining neurological difference between people by some sort of

genetic evolutionary mechanism?!

The idea that the way we think and feel is predetermined by our

genetics?

Wow, these is heavy, heavy stuff. I really hope you are not aware what

you are saying.

Natasa

> > >

> > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > >

> > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> difference

> > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> difference.

> > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> > > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > > original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is

> the

> > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> intellectual

> > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

> speech

> > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

> > >

> > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates

> has a broken brain that needs fixing.

And I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates is autistic.

Or that any biomedical parent I have ever read or spoken to has ever

claimed that Bill Gates would require biomedical interventions.

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was trying to get at in the

thread about the need for us to use the words we've been given

carefully. Also the need for us to not make diagnoses from afar

based on things like being a quirky billionaire or early reading. I

read at 4. So did dozens of kids I have taught. It means nothing to

read at 4 other than you likely had parents who promoted reading to

you at an early age.

Anita

[Guest guest]

Can someone please tell me what the heck NORMAL is? I have YET to

find it.

> >

> > Taken from wikipedia-

> >

> > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

difference

> > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

difference.

> > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe that

> > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > original personalities and replacing them with different people.

> > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over such

> > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity is

the

> > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

intellectual

> > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

speech

> > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive people. "

> >

> > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, we were just making a joke at Mr. Cruise's expense. Of course he's not

neurodiverse.

>

> Tom Cruise is not neurodiverse, he is just a wacked out scientologist

>

> big difference

>

> many don't need meds, in fact they usually don't have the desired

> effect in many on the spectrum

>

[Guest guest]

,

I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this topic that seems to amaze me!

I recently encountered a parent at a conference I was teaching, who

was quite offended that I was training on interventions that could

help improve the functionality, skills, and quality of life for many

kids with ASD's. Though I was advised later that her child was non-

verbal, a behavioral nightmare and had stims out the wazoo, she was

furious with me and stated there was nothing " wrong " with her child,

rather the world just needed to learn to accept him as he was. He

didn't need to be " fixed. "

While this would be ideal in a perfect world, we don't live in

anything close to a perfect world! We have absolutely no control how

others choose to view and/or accept our kids with ASD's. The bottom

line is this, it's our responsibility as parents and professionals

to make sure our kids with ASD's are given every tool, intervention,

and opportunity to be able to become self-sufficient and content in

a world they will eventually be living in WITHOUT US! While this

mother chose to embrace her child's " quirks " and felt no need to

address something that wasn't " wrong or broken " in her eyes, these

children will surely pay the price for that decision later in life.

It's her own issues with denial that will hold this child back. And

believe me, after a rather long, and somewhat heated (on her side

anyway!) debate it was more than evident that her position was

steeped in her own insecurity and unwillingness to admit something

could possibly be amiss with any of her children. I see this SOOO

often it's scary. Whatever we choose to call these issues, whether

ASD, autism, neurodiverse.........who cares what it's called? At the

end of the day, the issues are still there, no matter what you

choose to call them and they STILL need to be addressed. Our kids

have issues that often keep them from engaging society and will

render them unable, in many cases, to ever live an independent, self-

sufficient, content life. When the parents are gone, what happens to

these kids? I already know that answer and I cringe to think of it.

I see it more than I care to at the center when we get families

later in life.

Let me share something I wrote a few years ago that explains better

how I think about this. I have a strong belief we were made to be

precisely who we are, yet we should always be striving, throughout

our lives, to better ourselves in any ways possible. We owe this

much to our kids. Both of my kids are now indistinguishable from

their peers, after I busted my rear end, 24/7, for 6+ years. Now I

have peace in knowing they will be able to care for themselves when

I'm gone, they are very happy, stable kids, and they are thriving in

their typical environments. They still have many " quirks, " as do we

all, that make them individual and who they are, yet they won't keep

them from getting jobs, living on their own, and perhaps getting

married someday. Had I not intervened, regardless of my beliefs

about who they were created to be and how neurodiverse they are, I

know where they would have ended up. There are some kids that might

not recover, but even then, we owe them the opportunity to reach

their fullest potential, whatever that is.

I don't have an issue with people believing we are neurodiverse. I

only have issues when those beliefs keep kids from receiving the

help that could offer them a chance at self-sufficient and

independent life.

Wonderfully Made

I'm made wonderfully and perfectly

Skilled by His mighty hand

Not a detail did my God forget

My hair He formed each strand

He made me individual

Yes, no one else like me

Therefore there is no comparison

With others that I see

Though some say I'm not as pretty

Looking through a partial eye

Tell me who has set the standard

That we judge each other by

Rather I believe a Sovereign God

Did form me with a plan

And in His eyes, I'm pleased to know

He loves me as I am

© 1995 Lum Corby

> > >

> > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > >

> > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> difference

> > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> difference.

> > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some autistic

> > > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe

that

> > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and that

> > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > > original personalities and replacing them with different

people.

> > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over

such

> > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others. Neurodiversity

is

> the

> > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> intellectual

> > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded. Some

> > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

> speech

> > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

people. "

> > >

> > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" maybe what we should be saying is that we are striving to help our

children to achieve independence rather than normalcy "

, that is exactly what we should ALL be saying. Thank you.

=O)

>

> ,

>

> I appreciate what you are saying and think you could possibly

be a

> bridge to the gap. However I would like to address the

word " normal " . I

> think it's an inaccurate word that might be what's causing the big

divide.

> Most of us want our kids to function as individuals with their own

say and

> be able to make in this world independently. So maybe what we

should be

> saying is that we are striving to help our children to achieve

independence

> rather than normalcy. My son had absolutely no signs of being on

any part

> of the spectrum until regression. He would follow his big sister

around and

> imitate and play with her as well as interact with me and my

husband

> beautifully. He pointed, smiled, laughed, had early speech,

imitation

> skills were fantastic, etc. Only with regression after vaccs did

any sign

> of social difference, extreme speech impairment, physical illness,

etc.

> begin. I am striving to help what was my healthy, happy,

extremely engaged

> child return through healing his physical illness created by

toxins and

> viral reactions by vaccines. I know how smart these kids are even

the ones

> who have no way of expressing that. Often I feel the ND camp does

not

> realize that about us biomed parents. We all know the

intelligence is

> there, we are just on the quest to either " bring them back " or

realize their

> full potential in what they were meant to be beyond toxicity. -

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

Behalf Of

> Bice

> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:12 AM

> EOHarm

> Subject: Re: Dini- what is neurodiversity

>

>

>

> ,

>

> This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist

isn't

> nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many things

in

> the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or more

> severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the neurodiverse

> are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

> mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as

necessary

> for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know how

to

> run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind needs

to

> rely on our social animal less each decade.

>

> The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot

accept

> a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them. That

is

> why I think something different is now happening to cause

> neurotypicals to have children with autistic symptoms.

>

> Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents just

> cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

>

> I have seen purpose behind most of Jade's actions. What some

> consider stimming, for example, picking fluff and blowing it, is

> actually learning the very complex processes of math and physics.

I

> used to love to pick fluff out of things, couches, pillows, etc,

and

> watch them float, noting the speed and rate of descension of the

> various sizes of fluff.

>

> Many of what I found were signs of autism, were not so odd in my

> family. No one was alarmed that Jade was stacking blocks 3 feet

> high, or could play with the same toy for hours until she mastered

> it. We could instantly understand when something was too loud and

> upset her, because it bothered us, too. Jade flapping her hands

was

> never odd to us. I was actually surprised to learn that many

things

> I always considered normal, were actually considered " abnormal " ,

and

> signs of autism.

>

> Each time I leave Wal-mart- I feel I need to take a xanax. I hate

> that place, I get dazed, confused, and have often just left my

> shopping cart as I was about to have what I always thought were

> anxiety attacks.

>

> I do agree that Asperger's and autism while being on the same

> spectrum, are worlds apart. Yet both are on the same " spectrum " .

> This is where the neurodiverse crowd and I differ.

>

> At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill

Gates

> has a broken brain that needs fixing.

>

> The neurodiverse are not feeling unloved because you want to help

> your children. I discovered this when explaining WHY I am using

> biomed for Jade. I would be estatic if in 2 yrs she came away with

> the label of Asperger's. I don't want her to have communication

> problems, facial tics, immune and gi dysfunction, and most agree

> with this. That is what I am trying to " fix " in giving Jade

> supplements.

>

> There are a great number of parents though, that will try

anything,

> and stop at nothing to make their child " normal " , when in all

> actuality there is no definition of " normal " . (personally, I feel

> that what is called " normal " is absolutely sickeningly BORING).

>

> The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because there

> are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are different

> from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

> them?

>

> Think back to your school days, I'm sure everyone knew of the

> incredibly smart kid, who had an inhaler, and got sick a bit more.

> He was different, but not so different that he could not function

> through life. He was probably often shunned for acting weird,

though.

>

> I think much of what the movement equates to is, so what if a

person

> cannot communicate like you, and rocks when they think, or need

> to " take a break " . What if this person can design the most

fabulous

> bridges (or windows operating systems) known to man? Don't let

their

> differences hold them back from their true greatness. Accept them

> for their assets, not shun them for their differences.

> Unfortunately, this is what happens with our educational system

and

> society.

>

> I have also read many articles and studies detailing the amount of

> illness and allergies in the gifted, have they always been

> mislabeled as gifted, rather than on the spectrum?

>

> I do agree that there has been a significant increase in severe

> autism. Just ask any school system in this country. Most

mainstream

> the high functioning, or those labeled with Asperger's. (as most

> cannot accomodate these children) We are getting better at

> identifying these kids, and making accomodations. But you cannot

> ignore the fact that the autistic programs have grown, and the

> schools cannot keep up with the influx. Why is that, if there has

> not been a true increase in autism?

>

> To put it mildly, aspergers is increasing due to better dx, and

> expanding criteria. Severe, or " classic autism " (what Jade was dx

> with) is increasing- IMO because of various toxins, and viruses.

>

> Biologically, and mentally the neurodiverse are different.

> Unfortunately, something (my guess thimerosal) has caused the same

> immune dysfunction in your children that many on the spectrum

have,

> and due to viral insults, it has caused the same autistic symptoms

> Jade has.

>

> Remember, there is much to learn about autism. I am certain that

> they will find many subgroups on the spectrum, within each

> functioning level. How they got to that place on the spectrum is

> most likely different as well. That is why this genetic hide and

> seek game has hit genes all over the genome.

>

> I am also careful to note that these are my personal views and

> feelings, I do not speak for any group of people, as there are

> numerous varied opinions on both sides of this debacle.

>

> I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> children.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Messages

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I often don't get some jokes.

> >

> > Tom Cruise is not neurodiverse, he is just a wacked out

scientologist

> >

> > big difference

> >

> > many don't need meds, in fact they usually don't have the

desired

> > effect in many on the spectrum

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, Here is a description of why Neurodiversity is a sham.

http://hatingautism.blogspot.com/2006/01/neurodiversity-sham-there-is-

no-such.html

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I appreciate what you are saying and think you could

possibly

> be a

> > bridge to the gap. However I would like to address the

> word " normal " . I

> > think it's an inaccurate word that might be what's causing the

big

> divide.

> > Most of us want our kids to function as individuals with their

own

> say and

> > be able to make in this world independently. So maybe what we

> should be

> > saying is that we are striving to help our children to achieve

> independence

> > rather than normalcy. My son had absolutely no signs of being on

> any part

> > of the spectrum until regression. He would follow his big sister

> around and

> > imitate and play with her as well as interact with me and my

> husband

> > beautifully. He pointed, smiled, laughed, had early speech,

> imitation

> > skills were fantastic, etc. Only with regression after vaccs did

> any sign

> > of social difference, extreme speech impairment, physical

illness,

> etc.

> > begin. I am striving to help what was my healthy, happy,

> extremely engaged

> > child return through healing his physical illness created by

> toxins and

> > viral reactions by vaccines. I know how smart these kids are

even

> the ones

> > who have no way of expressing that. Often I feel the ND camp

does

> not

> > realize that about us biomed parents. We all know the

> intelligence is

> > there, we are just on the quest to either " bring them back " or

> realize their

> > full potential in what they were meant to be beyond toxicity. -

>

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

> Behalf Of

> > Bice

> > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:12 AM

> > EOHarm

> > Subject: Re: Dini- what is neurodiversity

> >

> >

> >

> > ,

> >

> > This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> > offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist

> isn't

> > nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many things

> in

> > the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or more

> > severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the

neurodiverse

> > are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

> > mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as

> necessary

> > for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know how

> to

> > run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind needs

> to

> > rely on our social animal less each decade.

> >

> > The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot

> accept

> > a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them. That

> is

> > why I think something different is now happening to cause

> > neurotypicals to have children with autistic symptoms.

> >

> > Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents

just

> > cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

> >

> > I have seen purpose behind most of Jade's actions. What some

> > consider stimming, for example, picking fluff and blowing it, is

> > actually learning the very complex processes of math and physics.

> I

> > used to love to pick fluff out of things, couches, pillows, etc,

> and

> > watch them float, noting the speed and rate of descension of the

> > various sizes of fluff.

> >

> > Many of what I found were signs of autism, were not so odd in my

> > family. No one was alarmed that Jade was stacking blocks 3 feet

> > high, or could play with the same toy for hours until she

mastered

> > it. We could instantly understand when something was too loud and

> > upset her, because it bothered us, too. Jade flapping her hands

> was

> > never odd to us. I was actually surprised to learn that many

> things

> > I always considered normal, were actually considered " abnormal " ,

> and

> > signs of autism.

> >

> > Each time I leave Wal-mart- I feel I need to take a xanax. I hate

> > that place, I get dazed, confused, and have often just left my

> > shopping cart as I was about to have what I always thought were

> > anxiety attacks.

> >

> > I do agree that Asperger's and autism while being on the same

> > spectrum, are worlds apart. Yet both are on the same " spectrum " .

> > This is where the neurodiverse crowd and I differ.

> >

> > At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill

> Gates

> > has a broken brain that needs fixing.

> >

> > The neurodiverse are not feeling unloved because you want to help

> > your children. I discovered this when explaining WHY I am using

> > biomed for Jade. I would be estatic if in 2 yrs she came away

with

> > the label of Asperger's. I don't want her to have communication

> > problems, facial tics, immune and gi dysfunction, and most agree

> > with this. That is what I am trying to " fix " in giving Jade

> > supplements.

> >

> > There are a great number of parents though, that will try

> anything,

> > and stop at nothing to make their child " normal " , when in all

> > actuality there is no definition of " normal " . (personally, I feel

> > that what is called " normal " is absolutely sickeningly BORING).

> >

> > The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because there

> > are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> > people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are different

> > from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

> > them?

> >

> > Think back to your school days, I'm sure everyone knew of the

> > incredibly smart kid, who had an inhaler, and got sick a bit

more.

> > He was different, but not so different that he could not function

> > through life. He was probably often shunned for acting weird,

> though.

> >

> > I think much of what the movement equates to is, so what if a

> person

> > cannot communicate like you, and rocks when they think, or need

> > to " take a break " . What if this person can design the most

> fabulous

> > bridges (or windows operating systems) known to man? Don't let

> their

> > differences hold them back from their true greatness. Accept them

> > for their assets, not shun them for their differences.

> > Unfortunately, this is what happens with our educational system

> and

> > society.

> >

> > I have also read many articles and studies detailing the amount

of

> > illness and allergies in the gifted, have they always been

> > mislabeled as gifted, rather than on the spectrum?

> >

> > I do agree that there has been a significant increase in severe

> > autism. Just ask any school system in this country. Most

> mainstream

> > the high functioning, or those labeled with Asperger's. (as most

> > cannot accomodate these children) We are getting better at

> > identifying these kids, and making accomodations. But you cannot

> > ignore the fact that the autistic programs have grown, and the

> > schools cannot keep up with the influx. Why is that, if there has

> > not been a true increase in autism?

> >

> > To put it mildly, aspergers is increasing due to better dx, and

> > expanding criteria. Severe, or " classic autism " (what Jade was dx

> > with) is increasing- IMO because of various toxins, and viruses.

> >

> > Biologically, and mentally the neurodiverse are different.

> > Unfortunately, something (my guess thimerosal) has caused the

same

> > immune dysfunction in your children that many on the spectrum

> have,

> > and due to viral insults, it has caused the same autistic

symptoms

> > Jade has.

> >

> > Remember, there is much to learn about autism. I am certain that

> > they will find many subgroups on the spectrum, within each

> > functioning level. How they got to that place on the spectrum is

> > most likely different as well. That is why this genetic hide and

> > seek game has hit genes all over the genome.

> >

> > I am also careful to note that these are my personal views and

> > feelings, I do not speak for any group of people, as there are

> > numerous varied opinions on both sides of this debacle.

> >

> > I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> > neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> > children.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Messages

> >

>

<EOHarm/message/56066;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b2dp

> dnQzBF9

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[Guest guest]

,

I do agree, and parents of a child who is non-verbal does need to

intervene, even if that intervention is helping the child to

communicate with assistive technology, if they are completely non-

verbal. I don't think they all need to fit some senseless idea of

what " normal " is, but it is our responsibility as parents to ensure

that our children may be as independent as possible.

Just as with a neurotypical child, it is our responsibility to raise

our children so they may reach their full potential. Unfortunately,

there are many parents of NT children that simply do not do this,

either.

> > > >

> > > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > > >

> > > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> > difference

> > > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> > difference.

> > > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some

autistic

> > > > individuals and people with related conditions, who believe

> that

> > > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and

that

> > > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying their

> > > > original personalities and replacing them with different

> people.

> > > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children over

> such

> > > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others.

Neurodiversity

> is

> > the

> > > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> > intellectual

> > > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded.

Some

> > > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to developmental

> > speech

> > > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

> people. "

> > > >

> > > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think anyone said to not treat any physical problems, but

maybe I missed something.

> > > >

> > > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > > >

> > > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> > difference

> > > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> > difference.

> > > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some

autistic

> > > > individuals and people with related conditions, who

believe

> that

> > > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and

that

> > > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying

their

> > > > original personalities and replacing them with different

> people.

> > > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children

over

> such

> > > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others.

Neurodiversity

> is

> > the

> > > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> > intellectual

> > > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded.

Some

> > > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to

developmental

> > speech

> > > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

> people. "

> > > >

> > > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist isn't

> nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many things in

> the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or more

> severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the neurodiverse

> are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

> mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as necessary

> for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know how to

> run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind needs to

> rely on our social animal less each decade.

This is ideology, not science. And it is bad ideology. What is

spouted is no different than Aryan nation racism.

>

> The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot accept

> a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them.

Racist stereotyping and hate speech. I seriously doubt any so-called

NDer has more insight into the realities of any individual child over

their parents. Who are they to judge people " cheerleaders and prom

kings " ? Feh.

>

> Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents just

> cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

Condescention.

> At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates

> has a broken brain that needs fixing.

More superficial stereotyping.

> The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because there

> are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are different

> from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

> them?

I deny the assumption that there is a separaate race of the neurodiverse.

>

> I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> children.

What neurodiverse world? The " neurodiverse world " are at best a

handful of people who represent only themselves. They do not

represent anyone else of the spectrum, and that would include the

high, middle and low end of the autism spectrum. People on the high

end of the spectrum do not generally embrace a racist them-verses-us

view of humanity as expressed by the NDazi misanthropic philosophy.

Any self-descibed ND person represents only themself. There are not

separate worlds in need of their bridging. Everyone has autistic

attributes; some are more affected than others.

Lenny

[Guest guest]

Wow, there is so much hate and anger there, that I don't know where

to begin. Not that I even want to, I have learned not to waste my

time arguing when I can be having fun with Jade.

Besides, it does not good for my blood pressure, or self esteem.

And to think Lenny, I always had great respect for you, and really

thought you were a nice guy.

What a shame.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> > offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist

isn't

> > nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many

things in

> > the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or

more

> > severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the

neurodiverse

> > are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

> > mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as

necessary

> > for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know

how to

> > run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind

needs to

> > rely on our social animal less each decade.

>

> This is ideology, not science. And it is bad ideology. What is

> spouted is no different than Aryan nation racism.

>

> >

> > The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot

accept

> > a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them.

>

> Racist stereotyping and hate speech. I seriously doubt any so-

called

> NDer has more insight into the realities of any individual child

over

> their parents. Who are they to judge people " cheerleaders and prom

> kings " ? Feh.

>

> >

> > Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents

just

> > cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

>

> Condescention.

>

> > At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill

Gates

> > has a broken brain that needs fixing.

>

> More superficial stereotyping.

>

> > The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because

there

> > are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> > people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are

different

> > from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

> > them?

>

> I deny the assumption that there is a separaate race of the

neurodiverse.

>

> >

> > I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> > neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> > children.

>

> What neurodiverse world? The " neurodiverse world " are at best a

> handful of people who represent only themselves. They do not

> represent anyone else of the spectrum, and that would include the

> high, middle and low end of the autism spectrum. People on the high

> end of the spectrum do not generally embrace a racist them-verses-

us

> view of humanity as expressed by the NDazi misanthropic philosophy.

> Any self-descibed ND person represents only themself. There are

not

> separate worlds in need of their bridging. Everyone has autistic

> attributes; some are more affected than others.

>

> Lenny

>

[Guest guest]

If that's directed at my comments, you're barking up the wrong

tree!! Or maybe howling I should say!! LOL!! Maybe I didn't

articulate my position well in my last post.

I never said there was nothing wrong with these kids, science

clearly proves otherwise. There are clearly genetic (inborn - not

something at the moment we have control over) mutations that are

making our kids more susceptible to this environmental junk that's

triggering ASD's. These seem to be getting worse with each

generation, I believe it's partially because of the toxic exposure

we all experience on a daily basis. That includes, vaccines, toxins,

and the litany of other crap our kids are exposed to. I don't

believe mercury is the ONLY main issue involved with these kids, and

therefore, there are other issues at hand besides just metal

toxicity and immune dysfunction. I think any of us would err

tremendously if we projected the notion that we had all the answers.

We treat kids daily in ALL areas of ASD, that includes ABA,

chelation, gastrointestinal problems, metabolic problems, language

acquisition, and the rest. When I speak of " wonderfully made, " I'm

not negating in any way the incredible wrongs by the vaccine

industry, NIH/CDC, and others, as a whole that have been exercised

to place our kids, and all of us actually, in such peril.

We are in the same fight my friend!

As Lenny said, everyone has autistic traits to some degree. It's a

matter of excesses and deficiencies and to what degree they

interfere with our ability to function. Some kids are more

susceptible to immune system issues, gut problems, metal toxicity,

etc., than others are. Severity depends upon the susceptibility, at

what point in neurodevelopment the kid's system was hit, and what

type of early intervention of all kinds was provided.

Pardon me, it's raining and I'm tired from all that dancing I had to

do!! LOL!! Just kidding!

> > > >

> > > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > > >

> > > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> > difference

> > > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> > difference.

> > > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some

autistic

> > > > individuals and people with related conditions, who

believe

> that

> > > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are, and

that

> > > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying

their

> > > > original personalities and replacing them with different

> people.

> > > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children

over

> such

> > > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others.

Neurodiversity

> is

> > the

> > > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> > intellectual

> > > > disability is applied to those who are mentally retarded.

Some

> > > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to

developmental

> > speech

> > > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

> people. "

> > > >

> > > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" I think any of us would err tremendously if we projected the notion

that we had all the answers. "

Amen to that

> > > > >

> > > > > Taken from wikipedia-

> > > > >

> > > > > " Neurodiversity is an idea that asserts that atypical

> > > > > (neurodivergent) neurological wiring is a normal human

> > > difference

> > > > > that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human

> > > difference.

> > > > > [1] The concept of neurodiversity was created by some

> autistic

> > > > > individuals and people with related conditions, who

> believe

> > that

> > > > > autism is not a disorder, but a part of who they are,

and

> that

> > > > > curing autistic people would be the same as destroying

> their

> > > > > original personalities and replacing them with different

> > people.

> > > > > This term is preferred by parents of autistic children

> over

> > such

> > > > > names as " abnormal " , " disabled " , among others.

> Neurodiversity

> > is

> > > the

> > > > > preferred term applied to autistics, similar to the way

> > > intellectual

> > > > > disability is applied to those who are mentally

retarded.

> Some

> > > > > people apply the concept of neurodiversity to

> developmental

> > > speech

> > > > > disorders as well as dyslexic, dyspraxic and hyperactive

> > people. "

> > > > >

> > > > > check out http://neurodiversity.com/

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Don't take it personal, but I dislike hate speech, even when

soft-peddled.

Lenny

ps. Your opinion of me in none of my business and anyway is not

appropriate for this list.

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> > > offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist

> isn't

> > > nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many

> things in

> > > the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or

> more

> > > severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the

> neurodiverse

> > > are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer need " pack

> > > mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as

> necessary

> > > for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know

> how to

> > > run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind

> needs to

> > > rely on our social animal less each decade.

> >

> > This is ideology, not science. And it is bad ideology. What is

> > spouted is no different than Aryan nation racism.

> >

> > >

> > > The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot

> accept

> > > a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them.

> >

> > Racist stereotyping and hate speech. I seriously doubt any so-

> called

> > NDer has more insight into the realities of any individual child

> over

> > their parents. Who are they to judge people " cheerleaders and prom

> > kings " ? Feh.

> >

> > >

> > > Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents

> just

> > > cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

> >

> > Condescention.

> >

> > > At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill

> Gates

> > > has a broken brain that needs fixing.

> >

> > More superficial stereotyping.

> >

> > > The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because

> there

> > > are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> > > people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are

> different

> > > from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever accept

> > > them?

> >

> > I deny the assumption that there is a separaate race of the

> neurodiverse.

> >

> > >

> > > I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> > > neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> > > children.

> >

> > What neurodiverse world? The " neurodiverse world " are at best a

> > handful of people who represent only themselves. They do not

> > represent anyone else of the spectrum, and that would include the

> > high, middle and low end of the autism spectrum. People on the high

> > end of the spectrum do not generally embrace a racist them-verses-

> us

> > view of humanity as expressed by the NDazi misanthropic philosophy.

> > Any self-descibed ND person represents only themself. There are

> not

> > separate worlds in need of their bridging. Everyone has autistic

> > attributes; some are more affected than others.

> >

> > Lenny

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, Adults with Asperger's (dx'd and undx'd) almost always refer

to themselves as Aspies, and NOT neurodiverse. In fact, most Aspies

despise the militant agenda of the NDs, and prefer to disassociate

themselves from them.

I have on occasion read the Aspie forums on the OASIS Delphi message

boards. These are just some of the headings and topics of discussion

listed there:Emotional, Mental, Spiritual,General Gabbery, Workplace,

Out and About,Fun and Funny, and Family. With more of an emphasis on

social difficulties with fitting in and communicative

misunderstandings, and lonliness - some of their forum topics aren't

that much different than NTs.

I specifically remember when a bunch of Aspie adults wanted to set up

their own forums on the OASIS Dephi site. They specifically shared

that they were more interested in discussing common interests and

hobbies, relationship difficulties,and some other topics, and what I

distinctly remember reading is that they all said they had nothing in

common with the extreme militant views of the " neurodiverse " . They

had very little in common with the ND group of people - and the

Aspies shared that they had better things to do with their time.

I searched the term " neurodiverse " on a few of the adult Aspie OASIS

forums, and came up with - " 0 messages found " .

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > I appreciate what you are saying and think you could

> possibly

> > be a

> > > bridge to the gap. However I would like to address the

> > word " normal " . I

> > > think it's an inaccurate word that might be what's causing the

> big

> > divide.

> > > Most of us want our kids to function as individuals with their

> own

> > say and

> > > be able to make in this world independently. So maybe what we

> > should be

> > > saying is that we are striving to help our children to achieve

> > independence

> > > rather than normalcy. My son had absolutely no signs of being

on

> > any part

> > > of the spectrum until regression. He would follow his big

sister

> > around and

> > > imitate and play with her as well as interact with me and my

> > husband

> > > beautifully. He pointed, smiled, laughed, had early speech,

> > imitation

> > > skills were fantastic, etc. Only with regression after vaccs

did

> > any sign

> > > of social difference, extreme speech impairment, physical

> illness,

> > etc.

> > > begin. I am striving to help what was my healthy, happy,

> > extremely engaged

> > > child return through healing his physical illness created by

> > toxins and

> > > viral reactions by vaccines. I know how smart these kids are

> even

> > the ones

> > > who have no way of expressing that. Often I feel the ND camp

> does

> > not

> > > realize that about us biomed parents. We all know the

> > intelligence is

> > > there, we are just on the quest to either " bring them back " or

> > realize their

> > > full potential in what they were meant to be beyond toxicity. -

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

> > Behalf Of

> > > Bice

> > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:12 AM

> > > EOHarm

> > > Subject: Re: Dini- what is neurodiversity

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > This is where I, and many individuals on the spectrum do get

> > > offended. (Also, being compared to a wacked out scientologist

> > isn't

> > > nice, either) Neurodiverse brains are not broken, IMO many

things

> > in

> > > the environment (including viruses) can cause regression, or

more

> > > severe symptoms in the neurodiverse. Genetically, the

> neurodiverse

> > > are different, perhaps due to evolution. We no longer

need " pack

> > > mentality " if you will, or the associated social skills as

> > necessary

> > > for survival. In today's society, it is more critical to know

how

> > to

> > > run IT systems, and communicate via the internet. Humankind

needs

> > to

> > > rely on our social animal less each decade.

> > >

> > > The difference is that the cheerleaders and prom kings cannot

> > accept

> > > a child with asperger's because they cannot understand them.

That

> > is

> > > why I think something different is now happening to cause

> > > neurotypicals to have children with autistic symptoms.

> > >

> > > Sometimes I feel very sad for these families, as many parents

> just

> > > cannot comprehend why their child might be doing something.

> > >

> > > I have seen purpose behind most of Jade's actions. What some

> > > consider stimming, for example, picking fluff and blowing it,

is

> > > actually learning the very complex processes of math and

physics.

> > I

> > > used to love to pick fluff out of things, couches, pillows,

etc,

> > and

> > > watch them float, noting the speed and rate of descension of

the

> > > various sizes of fluff.

> > >

> > > Many of what I found were signs of autism, were not so odd in

my

> > > family. No one was alarmed that Jade was stacking blocks 3 feet

> > > high, or could play with the same toy for hours until she

> mastered

> > > it. We could instantly understand when something was too loud

and

> > > upset her, because it bothered us, too. Jade flapping her hands

> > was

> > > never odd to us. I was actually surprised to learn that many

> > things

> > > I always considered normal, were actually

considered " abnormal " ,

> > and

> > > signs of autism.

> > >

> > > Each time I leave Wal-mart- I feel I need to take a xanax. I

hate

> > > that place, I get dazed, confused, and have often just left my

> > > shopping cart as I was about to have what I always thought were

> > > anxiety attacks.

> > >

> > > I do agree that Asperger's and autism while being on the same

> > > spectrum, are worlds apart. Yet both are on the

same " spectrum " .

> > > This is where the neurodiverse crowd and I differ.

> > >

> > > At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill

> > Gates

> > > has a broken brain that needs fixing.

> > >

> > > The neurodiverse are not feeling unloved because you want to

help

> > > your children. I discovered this when explaining WHY I am using

> > > biomed for Jade. I would be estatic if in 2 yrs she came away

> with

> > > the label of Asperger's. I don't want her to have communication

> > > problems, facial tics, immune and gi dysfunction, and most

agree

> > > with this. That is what I am trying to " fix " in giving Jade

> > > supplements.

> > >

> > > There are a great number of parents though, that will try

> > anything,

> > > and stop at nothing to make their child " normal " , when in all

> > > actuality there is no definition of " normal " . (personally, I

feel

> > > that what is called " normal " is absolutely sickeningly BORING).

> > >

> > > The neurodiverse are feeling unloved and unaccepted because

there

> > > are many parents that refuse to believe the neurodiverse, as a

> > > people exist, and have for years. The neurodiverse are

different

> > > from you. When you deny their existence, how can you ever

accept

> > > them?

> > >

> > > Think back to your school days, I'm sure everyone knew of the

> > > incredibly smart kid, who had an inhaler, and got sick a bit

> more.

> > > He was different, but not so different that he could not

function

> > > through life. He was probably often shunned for acting weird,

> > though.

> > >

> > > I think much of what the movement equates to is, so what if a

> > person

> > > cannot communicate like you, and rocks when they think, or need

> > > to " take a break " . What if this person can design the most

> > fabulous

> > > bridges (or windows operating systems) known to man? Don't let

> > their

> > > differences hold them back from their true greatness. Accept

them

> > > for their assets, not shun them for their differences.

> > > Unfortunately, this is what happens with our educational system

> > and

> > > society.

> > >

> > > I have also read many articles and studies detailing the amount

> of

> > > illness and allergies in the gifted, have they always been

> > > mislabeled as gifted, rather than on the spectrum?

> > >

> > > I do agree that there has been a significant increase in severe

> > > autism. Just ask any school system in this country. Most

> > mainstream

> > > the high functioning, or those labeled with Asperger's. (as

most

> > > cannot accomodate these children) We are getting better at

> > > identifying these kids, and making accomodations. But you

cannot

> > > ignore the fact that the autistic programs have grown, and the

> > > schools cannot keep up with the influx. Why is that, if there

has

> > > not been a true increase in autism?

> > >

> > > To put it mildly, aspergers is increasing due to better dx, and

> > > expanding criteria. Severe, or " classic autism " (what Jade was

dx

> > > with) is increasing- IMO because of various toxins, and viruses.

> > >

> > > Biologically, and mentally the neurodiverse are different.

> > > Unfortunately, something (my guess thimerosal) has caused the

> same

> > > immune dysfunction in your children that many on the spectrum

> > have,

> > > and due to viral insults, it has caused the same autistic

> symptoms

> > > Jade has.

> > >

> > > Remember, there is much to learn about autism. I am certain

that

> > > they will find many subgroups on the spectrum, within each

> > > functioning level. How they got to that place on the spectrum

is

> > > most likely different as well. That is why this genetic hide

and

> > > seek game has hit genes all over the genome.

> > >

> > > I am also careful to note that these are my personal views and

> > > feelings, I do not speak for any group of people, as there are

> > > numerous varied opinions on both sides of this debacle.

> > >

> > > I would love to bridge this gap between the neurodiverse, and

> > > neurotypical worlds. It really needs to happen, for all of our

> > > children.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Messages

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/message/56066;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b2dp

> > dnQzBF9

> > >

> >

>

TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDI5OTM4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDY4MgRtc2dJZAM1

> > NjE0MAR

> > > zZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODEzMTU2MzEEdHBjSWQDNTYwNjY->

> in

> > this

> > > topic (0)

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyY3FqNWxkBF9TA

> > zk3MzU5

> > >

> >

>

NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDI5OTM4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDY4MgRtc2dJZAM1NjE0MARzZ

> > WMDZnRy

> > > BHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODEzMTU2MzE-?

act=reply & messageNum=56140>

> > Reply (via

> > > web post) | Start

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmczcxdGZxBF9TA

> > zk3MzU5

> > >

> >

>

NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDI5OTM4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDY4MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNud

> > HBjBHN0

> > > aW1lAzExODEzMTU2MzE-> a new topic

> > >

> > > Messages

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmN2h2MWhoB

> > F9TAzk3

> > >

> >

>

MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDI5OTM4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDY4MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsa

> > wNtc2dz

> > > BHN0aW1lAzExODEzMTU2MzE-> | Files

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJncmZtdmowBF9T

> > Azk3MzU

> > >

> >

>

5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDI5OTM4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDY4MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNm

> > aWxlcwR

> > > zdGltZQMxMTgxMzE1NjMx> | Photos

> > >

> >

>

<EOHarm/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZ2NkanRhBF9

> > TAzk3Mz

> > >

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Anita,

The reference about reading at the age of four as not being a reason to

diagnose from afar, I believe, is referencing my post. Perhaps I should

have clarified it more for you.

The begining of her video references many hints other than just their

reading which made me guess this. I am certainly not diagnosing her

....it was an observation that I might point out was correct.

Parents who have children on the spectrum do have an undeniable ability

to often pick another kid out in a crowd who is on the spectrum. Experience

teaches us things and we can then spot it. Maybe we are not always right,

but I would say that we probably are accurate many many times.

Isn't that, in fact, the reason NAA and other autism organizations are

encouraging parents to approach other parents if we feel their child has

symptoms of autism spectrum disorders? Isn't it arguable that a parent with

experience can possibly help another to receive a diagnosis and then receive

services earlier?

It is no different than the speculative discussion many had here last week

concerning the boy who won the spelling bee and his probably having

asperger's. People who believe Bill Gates has asperger's are doing the same

thing, and it is a question that Gates has refused to answer. That is certainly

his right as he is living in a free society and his privacy rights are in

existance,

but none-the-less, his silence to the question certainly fueled discussion and,

frankly, gives some parents hope and a brighter outlook if their child has

asperger's.

You may not like people taking a guess here and there and then discussing it,

but it is going to happen and I don't think it is as dangerous as you seem to

think.

If it were, then there would not be such a push for parents to inform other

parents

when they recognize symptoms in another child.

Just my opinion.

Col

>

> >

> > At the same time, I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates

> > has a broken brain that needs fixing.

>

>

> And I would not perpetuate the notion that Bill Gates is autistic.

> Or that any biomedical parent I have ever read or spoken to has ever

> claimed that Bill Gates would require biomedical interventions.

>

> This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was trying to get at in the

> thread about the need for us to use the words we've been given

> carefully. Also the need for us to not make diagnoses from afar

> based on things like being a quirky billionaire or early reading. I

> read at 4. So did dozens of kids I have taught. It means nothing to

> read at 4 other than you likely had parents who promoted reading to

> you at an early age.

>

> Anita

>