Re: does your kid ever do this.......

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 9:22:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

magnussen@... writes:

<< I have noticed lately that Angel will take my hand and move it to

accomplish

a task or to give me a message rather than try to sign or speak. Today it

was very notable as she was sitting while I was feeding her and she took my

hand, pushed it back into the dish, tried to make me scrape off the food

back into the dish and then pushed my hand so that the spoon went fully back

into the dish and then pushed my hand away, indicating she didn't want to

eat anymore. She always signs 'all done', but didn't this time. Just

visually told me she was finished. >>

Cheryl,

Seth does this with everything. But, he has never had any skills in this

area. We were very pleased that he led us to the VCR and pushed us away

after we turned it on for him. Now I'm thinking it's not so good. He uses

us as a tool to get what he wants, but he's not really communicating. Not to

mention I am beginning to feel USED!!!! LOL

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 9:22:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

magnussen@... writes:

<< I have noticed lately that Angel will take my hand and move it to

accomplish

a task or to give me a message rather than try to sign or speak. Today it

was very notable as she was sitting while I was feeding her and she took my

hand, pushed it back into the dish, tried to make me scrape off the food

back into the dish and then pushed my hand so that the spoon went fully back

into the dish and then pushed my hand away, indicating she didn't want to

eat anymore. She always signs 'all done', but didn't this time. Just

visually told me she was finished. >>

Cheryl,

Seth does this with everything. But, he has never had any skills in this

area. We were very pleased that he led us to the VCR and pushed us away

after we turned it on for him. Now I'm thinking it's not so good. He uses

us as a tool to get what he wants, but he's not really communicating. Not to

mention I am beginning to feel USED!!!! LOL

Gail

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

has lost skills over the years but it has always been very subtle.

He started to say words around 1 year and by the time he was 2, he could say

MaMa, DaDa, ball, up, baba, etc. and he could whistle! Not a tune or

anything, but he could make the whistle sound on purpose! By the time he

started school at about 3 1/2, it was all gone! I couldn't tell you when it

stopped, but it just slowly disappeared. He used to play with

toys...particulary cause and effect toys...you know, push the button and

something happens. He won't do it anymore. It's not like one day he does it

and the next day he doesn't. We just started noticing that more and more he

was self-stimming (spinning things, hand flapping, etc.) and spending more

and more time by himself. Then, by the time he was 12 or 13, he started

wanting more 1:1 attention from us. Now, he is pretty sociable with family

members, wants to sit on/by them, etc., but large groups of people upset him

terribly. At school, he watches the other kids, but won't interact with

them. He also has the no eye contact thing going alot of the time. He still

understands some signs, but will not even attempt to use them. He used to do

patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider and peek-a-boo but they are gone too. He wants

me to do them for him...he'll try to move my hands to do them, but if I drop

my hands, he won't do them alone. It's very frustrating!

Terry

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

has lost skills over the years but it has always been very subtle.

He started to say words around 1 year and by the time he was 2, he could say

MaMa, DaDa, ball, up, baba, etc. and he could whistle! Not a tune or

anything, but he could make the whistle sound on purpose! By the time he

started school at about 3 1/2, it was all gone! I couldn't tell you when it

stopped, but it just slowly disappeared. He used to play with

toys...particulary cause and effect toys...you know, push the button and

something happens. He won't do it anymore. It's not like one day he does it

and the next day he doesn't. We just started noticing that more and more he

was self-stimming (spinning things, hand flapping, etc.) and spending more

and more time by himself. Then, by the time he was 12 or 13, he started

wanting more 1:1 attention from us. Now, he is pretty sociable with family

members, wants to sit on/by them, etc., but large groups of people upset him

terribly. At school, he watches the other kids, but won't interact with

them. He also has the no eye contact thing going alot of the time. He still

understands some signs, but will not even attempt to use them. He used to do

patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider and peek-a-boo but they are gone too. He wants

me to do them for him...he'll try to move my hands to do them, but if I drop

my hands, he won't do them alone. It's very frustrating!

Terry

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 10:49:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Imaddenmom@... writes:

<< He used to do

patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider and peek-a-boo but they are gone too. He

wants

me to do them for him...he'll try to move my hands to do them, but if I drop

my hands, he won't do them alone. It's very frustrating!

Terry >>

Terry,

That's just what Seth does! If I try hand over hand with him he gets mad

and leaves the room. LOL

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 10:49:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Imaddenmom@... writes:

<< He used to do

patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider and peek-a-boo but they are gone too. He

wants

me to do them for him...he'll try to move my hands to do them, but if I drop

my hands, he won't do them alone. It's very frustrating!

Terry >>

Terry,

That's just what Seth does! If I try hand over hand with him he gets mad

and leaves the room. LOL

Gail

[Guest guest]

My Sara started losing skills around 10...they thought she was bored because

she was so high functioning so we moved her out of the severly handicapped

class...then they said she was overwhelmed and we moved her again...then they

said she plataued...or she's shy...or we have too many kids and she gets left

out...Oh yeah..the best one is " it's my imagination " . The loss of continence

has started the last few years with bed wetting..she used to be dry and never

wet the bed. She used to read and write and we had some language...now it's

all gone. It probably was going even when she was younger but no one

noticed. Sara will be 16 in October. The spinning and hand flapping has

increased with high school. Now the school says " Opps!! " we think there is

something wrong with Sara.

Judy

[Guest guest]

My Sara started losing skills around 10...they thought she was bored because

she was so high functioning so we moved her out of the severly handicapped

class...then they said she was overwhelmed and we moved her again...then they

said she plataued...or she's shy...or we have too many kids and she gets left

out...Oh yeah..the best one is " it's my imagination " . The loss of continence

has started the last few years with bed wetting..she used to be dry and never

wet the bed. She used to read and write and we had some language...now it's

all gone. It probably was going even when she was younger but no one

noticed. Sara will be 16 in October. The spinning and hand flapping has

increased with high school. Now the school says " Opps!! " we think there is

something wrong with Sara.

Judy

[Guest guest]

will take your hand and point at things, rather than doing it

himself. He never was completely toilet-trained, but the 'regression' was

somewhat slow, and I got him to regain some of it back, and then when he went

to school again...he lost it again.

Ann

[Guest guest]

will take your hand and point at things, rather than doing it

himself. He never was completely toilet-trained, but the 'regression' was

somewhat slow, and I got him to regain some of it back, and then when he went

to school again...he lost it again.

Ann

[Guest guest]

could whistle at 18 mths, as well. He would use about 50+ words,

appropriately and point to objects as he labeled. And used to play

appropriately with toys...driving the cars over the floor and doing the

'cause and effect' thing. It slowly disappeared.

Ann

[Guest guest]

could whistle at 18 mths, as well. He would use about 50+ words,

appropriately and point to objects as he labeled. And used to play

appropriately with toys...driving the cars over the floor and doing the

'cause and effect' thing. It slowly disappeared.

Ann

[Guest guest]

was sitting on the sofa one day recently, saying " baby baby baby "

and doing the sign. I was thrilled. He used to do all the 'little monkeys

jumping on the bed, itsy bitsy spider and a lot of the 'tree in the

woods'....he will still do some of the 'wheels on the bus'....especially the

'sshhhh'.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Cheryl:

Last spring I went to the PECS annual conference (the one in Philly this

May) that is not about training people, but about sharing what new stuff is

happening etc.

One of the speakers was a woman who helped develop the CHAT (a screening

tool) and another early screening tool. She showed videos of different

things that identified kids very early as having autism. The videos showed

kids given the same things and how they reacted in the situation. One child

was " normal, " one had a Developmental disability (like DS), the last had

suspected autism and would go on to be diagnosed as having autism later.

It was fascinating to watch. I saw a lot of Andy as a very young child (way

before autism was a question) in the videos....not in the child with DD,

but the child wiht autism. I was stunned.

One of the things was when the child with autism needed help, she didn't

sign or ask, or any of those things....she took the adult's hand and tried

to get her hand to do the task. Andy used to take other people's hands and

form the signs with them. He use to lead us to the TV and put our hand on

it to get us to do what he wanted. Rather than trying to touch the item

himself, he'd take someone else's hand to touch it.

Is that the sort of thing you saw? If so, that was one of the markers for

autism this lady was talking about. It was like seeing people used as

" tools " rather than something to communicate with.

As for regression, Andy's was tied in with an abusive classroom...so it was

pretty fast (or felt that way). A matter of weeks.

I hope this helps some.

Joan

[Guest guest]

Cheryl:

Last spring I went to the PECS annual conference (the one in Philly this

May) that is not about training people, but about sharing what new stuff is

happening etc.

One of the speakers was a woman who helped develop the CHAT (a screening

tool) and another early screening tool. She showed videos of different

things that identified kids very early as having autism. The videos showed

kids given the same things and how they reacted in the situation. One child

was " normal, " one had a Developmental disability (like DS), the last had

suspected autism and would go on to be diagnosed as having autism later.

It was fascinating to watch. I saw a lot of Andy as a very young child (way

before autism was a question) in the videos....not in the child with DD,

but the child wiht autism. I was stunned.

One of the things was when the child with autism needed help, she didn't

sign or ask, or any of those things....she took the adult's hand and tried

to get her hand to do the task. Andy used to take other people's hands and

form the signs with them. He use to lead us to the TV and put our hand on

it to get us to do what he wanted. Rather than trying to touch the item

himself, he'd take someone else's hand to touch it.

Is that the sort of thing you saw? If so, that was one of the markers for

autism this lady was talking about. It was like seeing people used as

" tools " rather than something to communicate with.

As for regression, Andy's was tied in with an abusive classroom...so it was

pretty fast (or felt that way). A matter of weeks.

I hope this helps some.

Joan

[Guest guest]

Angel's toileting has rapidly dissapeared, and she totally had control of

this during the day. She now just voids in her pants, or stands and pulls

the crotch of her pants down and says 'pee pee' and voids, or pulls her

pants off and pees on the floor and then pulls them up, or stands and stares

at the toilet and pees in her pants. Very slow motion almost. Says it and

doesn't move to go to the bathroom. All the furniture has peed puddle

stains now. Even her bed. She will go to ly in it and pee it.

Cheryl

Re: does your kid ever do this.......

> Cheryl,

> has lost skills over the years but it has always been very subtle.

> He started to say words around 1 year and by the time he was 2, he could

say

> MaMa, DaDa, ball, up, baba, etc. and he could whistle! Not a tune or

> anything, but he could make the whistle sound on purpose! By the time he

> started school at about 3 1/2, it was all gone! I couldn't tell you when

it

> stopped, but it just slowly disappeared. He used to play with

> toys...particulary cause and effect toys...you know, push the button and

> something happens. He won't do it anymore. It's not like one day he does

it

> and the next day he doesn't. We just started noticing that more and more

he

> was self-stimming (spinning things, hand flapping, etc.) and spending more

> and more time by himself. Then, by the time he was 12 or 13, he started

> wanting more 1:1 attention from us. Now, he is pretty sociable with

family

> members, wants to sit on/by them, etc., but large groups of people upset

him

> terribly. At school, he watches the other kids, but won't interact with

> them. He also has the no eye contact thing going alot of the time. He

still

> understands some signs, but will not even attempt to use them. He used to

do

> patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider and peek-a-boo but they are gone too. He

wants

> me to do them for him...he'll try to move my hands to do them, but if I

drop

> my hands, he won't do them alone. It's very frustrating!

> Terry

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 09:14 PM 3/31/01 -0800, you wrote:

>Angel's toileting has rapidly dissapeared, and she totally had control of

>this during the day. She now just voids in her pants, or stands and pulls

>the crotch of her pants down and says 'pee pee' and voids, or pulls her

>pants off and pees on the floor and then pulls them up, or stands and stares

>at the toilet and pees in her pants. Very slow motion almost. Says it and

>doesn't move to go to the bathroom. All the furniture has peed puddle

>stains now. Even her bed. She will go to ly in it and pee it.

don't hit me....

Are you sure there isn't like a yeast infection or something going on? When

Andy is ill, he has accidents, but when he is well, we do very well with

this! I can't say we had " regression " in this area b/c he wasn't fully

competent with trip training before all the other regression and aggression.

j

[Guest guest]

At 09:14 PM 3/31/01 -0800, you wrote:

>Angel's toileting has rapidly dissapeared, and she totally had control of

>this during the day. She now just voids in her pants, or stands and pulls

>the crotch of her pants down and says 'pee pee' and voids, or pulls her

>pants off and pees on the floor and then pulls them up, or stands and stares

>at the toilet and pees in her pants. Very slow motion almost. Says it and

>doesn't move to go to the bathroom. All the furniture has peed puddle

>stains now. Even her bed. She will go to ly in it and pee it.

don't hit me....

Are you sure there isn't like a yeast infection or something going on? When

Andy is ill, he has accidents, but when he is well, we do very well with

this! I can't say we had " regression " in this area b/c he wasn't fully

competent with trip training before all the other regression and aggression.

j

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/01 1:30:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

KenAnngerb@... writes:

<< was sitting on the sofa one day recently, saying " baby baby baby "

and doing the sign. I was thrilled. He used to do all the 'little monkeys

jumping on the bed, itsy bitsy spider and a lot of the 'tree in the

woods'....he will still do some of the 'wheels on the bus'....especially the

'sshhhh'.

Ann >>

That's great Ann! 3 cheers for !

Gail

[Guest guest]

Hi Joan,

When Angel is sick she voids without knowing that she is until it is too

late, and ten regains her full training as she gets healthy again. The

current prob differs from that in that she knows she is voiding, sometimes

says it or signs it, and doesn't attempt to use the toilet, or to move

towards it. She just stands there, pulls her pants down at her crotch

almost hoping her panties don't get wet, and does it. But the standing in

the bathroom and voiding while staring at the toilet, or the pulling down

pants and peeing on the living room rug thing really threw me for a loop.

Last eve we got her to go to the toilet before transitioning to the pool for

a swim and then right after she peed she flushed, (cant' stand a dirty

toilet) and then immediately washed her hands in the toilet. As I caught

her doing this I took her to the sink to wash with soap and water, reminding

her we wash in the sink, and then after she did so she immediately grabbed

my friend and wiped her hands dry on the front of her shirt, when the towel

was right beside her in open view. My poor friend, wet and soapy, couldn't

understand. Hey, neither could I. Just said we are working on figuring out

these great behavs.

Yet, she never has a bowel movement in her pants, unless she is really sick

and has diahhrea. She always senses it and says 'pee pee' and then has a

bm. Go figure!

I wonder if the muscle tone in their bladders weaker when they are sick and

causes them to just lose control without knowing it?

Mind, you she does hit, bite, tantrum and have lots of transitions probs

when she is sick so the face of her toileting behavs could change then too.

Just haven't seen it look like this before. And haven't seen her have to

start right from the beginning again when she is healthy. She typically

just falls back in line without probs.

I think a complete medical check is due.

Thanks, Cheryl

Re: does your kid ever do this.......

> At 09:14 PM 3/31/01 -0800, you wrote:

> >Angel's toileting has rapidly dissapeared, and she totally had control of

> >this during the day. She now just voids in her pants, or stands and

pulls

> >the crotch of her pants down and says 'pee pee' and voids, or pulls her

> >pants off and pees on the floor and then pulls them up, or stands and

stares

> >at the toilet and pees in her pants. Very slow motion almost. Says it

and

> >doesn't move to go to the bathroom. All the furniture has peed puddle

> >stains now. Even her bed. She will go to ly in it and pee it.

>

> don't hit me....

> Are you sure there isn't like a yeast infection or something going on?

When

> Andy is ill, he has accidents, but when he is well, we do very well with

> this! I can't say we had " regression " in this area b/c he wasn't fully

> competent with trip training before all the other regression and

aggression.

>

> j

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 10:22:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

magnussen@... writes:

<< I have noticed lately that Angel will take my hand and move it to

accomplish

a task or to give me a message rather than try to sign or speak. >>

Yes. Maddie did this all the time. Not so much anymore, but it used to be

a constant.

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/01 12:20:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<< As for regression, Andy's was tied in with an abusive classroom...so it was

pretty fast (or felt that way). A matter of weeks.

>>

Oh I forgot to tell you Cheryl. Maddie's was a matter of weeks too, but her

onset coincided with a very bad sickness.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Hi Donna,

good to see that Maddie no longer uses this form of communication. Did she

have other commication forms prior to using this method and then lost them?

Or was this always her primary form of communication?

thanks, Cheryl

Re: does your kid ever do this.......

> In a message dated 3/31/01 10:22:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> magnussen@... writes:

>

> << I have noticed lately that Angel will take my hand and move it to

> accomplish

> a task or to give me a message rather than try to sign or speak. >>

>

> Yes. Maddie did this all the time. Not so much anymore, but it used to

be

> a constant.

> Donna

>

>

> Checkout our homepage for files, bookmarks, and photos of

our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

archives for our list.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info re-toileting regression in Maddie as well. Helps me to

see there seems to be a wide difference in this area for each child, and no

real norm.

Angel's toileting skills are really leaving very rapidly as well. And it

was all on the heals of being sick since October.

Cheryl

Re: does your kid ever do this.......

> In a message dated 4/1/01 12:20:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> jmedlen@... writes:

>

> << As for regression, Andy's was tied in with an abusive classroom...so it

was

> pretty fast (or felt that way). A matter of weeks.

> >>

>

> Oh I forgot to tell you Cheryl. Maddie's was a matter of weeks too, but

her

> onset coincided with a very bad sickness.

> Donna

>

>

> Checkout our homepage for files, bookmarks, and photos of

our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

archives for our list.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I care about when the child lost and became autistic,

but it's none of my business to ask the child. I mean

I kindof want to know and kindof don't want to know.

But for most of what I know of the autistic children

that I know, they've been autistic all their life.

--- Judithrehling@... wrote:

> My Sara started losing skills around 10...they

> thought she was bored because

> she was so high functioning so we moved her out of

> the severly handicapped

> class...then they said she was overwhelmed and we

> moved her again...then they

> said she plataued...or she's shy...or we have too

> many kids and she gets left

> out...Oh yeah..the best one is " it's my

> imagination " . The loss of continence

> has started the last few years with bed wetting..she

> used to be dry and never

> wet the bed. She used to read and write and we had

> some language...now it's

> all gone. It probably was going even when she was

> younger but no one

> noticed. Sara will be 16 in October. The spinning

> and hand flapping has

> increased with high school. Now the school says

> " Opps!! " we think there is

> something wrong with Sara.

>

> Judy

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>