Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 hi.. in my state and county we have intermediate units that provide the special ed services... that IU.. must deem the child autistic before services are provided..and they are shady... they have turned away kids with dx from major hospitals of autism... and parents have to get ugly. Right now.. I am going to have a battle with ESY and the criteria they use. My son qualifies under one of the 7 criteria.. and they only want to use one standard one. BULLSHIT... I plan to go to due process... Lia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Dear Debi, This district sounds like it is toxic!! I'm not sure that you can have a 504 and an IEP. I think if you need an IEP all accomodations can be covered under that document. My advice is to document everything that the school district is doing. It sounds like you are going to have to go to a hearing and the worse the district acts the better it is for the case against them. How can they refuse to let the kid go to school and not provide home bound services at least? Is there a good private autism school in the area? This district sounds so bad that I don't know if you can trust them to carry through on anything you put in the IEP anyway. I think it will be easy to make the case that this district is not interested in educating this child. Sometimes it is easier when the district is so bad that the case against them is crystal clear. Good Luck! I've stopped 1,271 spam and fraud messages. You can too!Free trial of spam and fraud protection at www.cloudmark.com From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of DebiSent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:20 PMEOHarm Subject: section 504/IDEA Okay, got my work cut out for me. Going to an IEP meeting in themorning for someone. Child just turned 12. Has an IEP, not sure thedx, I think probably MR or developmental delay. Mom has taken hernumerous places, took her to Duke University, doc took one look ather, said autism, couldn't believe it took so long, did all thestandardized testing. Mom brought it back to school to request"autism-specific" services, school says they don't think she hasautism, not going to give her anything.As if that's not all, child has been having seizures, sounds like dropseizures. On meds, seizures lessening in frequency. Tend to happenearly in morning. Mom has been late bringing child because of time medis given, school attempted to jail mom for excessive tardies. Now allthe sudden the school is backing off, saying they now want her to keepdaughter home until seizure-free. Will not provide home-boundservices.Will not provide nurse attendant, etc. Question, should this child have section 504 AND IEP? How can theydeny her autism-related services? She is in process of getting furtherautism assessments. Child obviously is delayed, barely verbal,definitely not conversational at all. Seems all they've wanted iswarehousing.Any advice appreciated, we're about to round up the posse for this one...Debi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Debi- Any student with an IEP is already protected under the Section 504 civil rights laws. You would never write a 504 plan for a student who currently has an IEP - unless the sped team agreed the student no longer qualified and met the requirements for eligibility for sped under IDEA - then a student may be entitled to a 504 plan. It sounds like this family is in serious need of a sped attorney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Debi: Please email me offlist. I believe I can help. You cannot have a 504 and an IEP. This student needs an IEP that is functional, coherent, and implemented immediately. Again, I believe I can help. Alison >From: Ezor <sezor@...> >Reply-EOHarm >EOHarm >Subject: RE: section 504/IDEA >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:23:12 -0500 > >Dear Debi, > >This district sounds like it is toxic!! I'm not sure that you can have a >504 and an IEP. I think if you need an IEP all accomodations can be >covered >under that document. My advice is to document everything that the school >district is doing. It sounds like you are going to have to go to a hearing >and the worse the district acts the better it is for the case against them. >How can they refuse to let the kid go to school and not provide home bound >services at least? Is there a good private autism school in the area? >This >district sounds so bad that I don't know if you can trust them to carry >through on anything you put in the IEP anyway. I think it will be easy to >make the case that this district is not interested in educating this child. >Sometimes it is easier when the district is so bad that the case against >them is crystal clear. Good Luck! > > > > > > > > _____ > >I've stopped 1,271 spam and fraud messages. You can too! >Free trial of spam and fraud protection at www.cloudmark.com ><http://www.cloudmark.com/sigs?rc=aav3hl> > <http://www.cloudmark.com/sigs?rc=aav3hl> Cloudmark Desktop - Join the >fight against spam! > > > > _____ > >From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of >Debi >Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:20 PM >EOHarm >Subject: section 504/IDEA > > > >Okay, got my work cut out for me. Going to an IEP meeting in the >morning for someone. Child just turned 12. Has an IEP, not sure the >dx, I think probably MR or developmental delay. Mom has taken her >numerous places, took her to Duke University, doc took one look at >her, said autism, couldn't believe it took so long, did all the >standardized testing. Mom brought it back to school to request > " autism-specific " services, school says they don't think she has >autism, not going to give her anything. > >As if that's not all, child has been having seizures, sounds like drop >seizures. On meds, seizures lessening in frequency. Tend to happen >early in morning. Mom has been late bringing child because of time med >is given, school attempted to jail mom for excessive tardies. Now all >the sudden the school is backing off, saying they now want her to keep >daughter home until seizure-free. Will not provide home-bound >services.Will not provide nurse attendant, etc. > >Question, should this child have section 504 AND IEP? How can they >deny her autism-related services? She is in process of getting further >autism assessments. Child obviously is delayed, barely verbal, >definitely not conversational at all. Seems all they've wanted is >warehousing. > >Any advice appreciated, we're about to round up the posse for this one... > >Debi > > > > ><< sig_join_sb.gif >> _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gr\ atitude & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks everyone. The meeting was this morning. Problem with seizures solved. The primary problem is that they are refusing to accept the autism diagnosis that was made by a MD at Duke University!!!! They state they don't accept it because the report given them stated at the bottom " not for diagnostic purposes " because it was part of research. Never mind the fact that the child had to have an autism diagnosis PRIOR to the research. Their own psychological eval if I remember it states she meets CARS criteria for autism, but she's low functioning so she may be too low functioning to meet the criteria. No, I'm not kidding. Now they're saying she needs to get the report BEFORE the research began, they'll bring in their psych personnel and " discuss " it. They keep saying the label won't make any difference, yet when asked if it makes no difference why they are fighting so hard not to have it, they give no reasoning. District very toxic, no private autism school around. I could post stories for days. Debi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Debi: It is true that 75% of autistic people are dually-diagnosed with at least one other additional impairment. That stated, perhaps from this school's POV they are unable to think (narrow-mindedly) that her label makes no difference in her case because she is also MR? I'm sure we all agree that just isn't so! School systems must realize that even if a student has cognitive delays, her LEARNING STYLE(S) should be assessed as a vital component of instructional support. She should be AU, and then put the other in the section where it asks for additional impairments such as seizure disorder and cognitive delay. Her supports/services/modifications need to primarily stem from the Autism area of exceptionality. And those people probably don't want to pay for additional adult support because of her seizure history. Every child deserves a free and appropriate education. And they shouldn't make this student stay at home in the mornings! Hope this helps your young person who needs and deserves so much! >From: " Debi " <fightingautism@...> >Reply-EOHarm >EOHarm >Subject: Re: section 504/IDEA >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:11:35 -0000 > >Thanks everyone. The meeting was this morning. Problem with seizures >solved. > >The primary problem is that they are refusing to accept the autism >diagnosis that was made by a MD at Duke University!!!! They state they >don't accept it because the report given them stated at the bottom > " not for diagnostic purposes " because it was part of research. Never >mind the fact that the child had to have an autism diagnosis PRIOR to >the research. Their own psychological eval if I remember it states she >meets CARS criteria for autism, but she's low functioning so she may >be too low functioning to meet the criteria. No, I'm not kidding. > >Now they're saying she needs to get the report BEFORE the research >began, they'll bring in their psych personnel and " discuss " it. They >keep saying the label won't make any difference, yet when asked if it >makes no difference why they are fighting so hard not to have it, they >give no reasoning. > >District very toxic, no private autism school around. I could post >stories for days. > >Debi > > > _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards® http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 The one in charge has stated he will fight all he can to avoid accepting a dx from any child. IF they accept the autism dx, that means they'll have to address why the child isn't getting ABA (she's getting private ABA & making progress) and other autism-related services. Don't worry, there's group of parents here who are not taking it any more. There's liable to be some major media attention if things don't start changing soon. Debi > > Debi: > > It is true that 75% of autistic people are dually-diagnosed with at least > one other additional impairment. That stated, perhaps from this school's > POV they are unable to think (narrow-mindedly) that her label makes no > difference in her case because she is also MR? I'm sure we all agree that > just isn't so! > > School systems must realize that even if a student has cognitive delays, her > LEARNING STYLE(S) should be assessed as a vital component of instructional > support. She should be AU, and then put the other in the section where it > asks for additional impairments such as seizure disorder and cognitive > delay. > > Her supports/services/modifications need to primarily stem from the Autism > area of exceptionality. And those people probably don't want to pay for > additional adult support because of her seizure history. Every child > deserves a free and appropriate education. And they shouldn't make this > student stay at home in the mornings! > > Hope this helps your young person who needs and deserves so much! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Sounds like you're doing well with this struggle! Aha! It's the old " oh no, we won't pay for peer-reviewed, evidenced-based methods because it's too expensive! " rant. >From: " Debi " <fightingautism@...> >Reply-EOHarm >EOHarm >Subject: Re: section 504/IDEA >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:47:52 -0000 > >The one in charge has stated he will fight all he can to avoid >accepting a dx from any child. IF they accept the autism dx, that >means they'll have to address why the child isn't getting ABA (she's >getting private ABA & making progress) and other autism-related services. > >Don't worry, there's group of parents here who are not taking it any >more. There's liable to be some major media attention if things don't >start changing soon. > >Debi > > > > > > Debi: > > > > It is true that 75% of autistic people are dually-diagnosed with at >least > > one other additional impairment. That stated, perhaps from this >school's > > POV they are unable to think (narrow-mindedly) that her label makes no > > difference in her case because she is also MR? I'm sure we all >agree that > > just isn't so! > > > > School systems must realize that even if a student has cognitive >delays, her > > LEARNING STYLE(S) should be assessed as a vital component of >instructional > > support. She should be AU, and then put the other in the section >where it > > asks for additional impairments such as seizure disorder and cognitive > > delay. > > > > Her supports/services/modifications need to primarily stem from the >Autism > > area of exceptionality. And those people probably don't want to pay >for > > additional adult support because of her seizure history. Every child > > deserves a free and appropriate education. And they shouldn't make >this > > student stay at home in the mornings! > > > > Hope this helps your young person who needs and deserves so much! > > > _________________________________________________________________ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_do\ nation & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I can't believe that the person in charge actually admitted that. Were there lots of witnesses? That is truly horrible. I have a friend whose daughter's school district refused to accept an autism dx from high functioning kids but even they didn't attempt to deny services to more impaired kids. (BTW she fought them and eventually won). Since there is already a private ABA provider perhaps you should ask for a 40 hour a week home program for this girl paid for by the school district. If you get that it might motivate the district to develop appropriate programs of their own. I've stopped 1,316 spam and fraud messages. You can too!Free trial of spam and fraud protection at www.cloudmark.com From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of DebiSent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:48 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: section 504/IDEA The one in charge has stated he will fight all he can to avoidaccepting a dx from any child. IF they accept the autism dx, thatmeans they'll have to address why the child isn't getting ABA (she'sgetting private ABA & making progress) and other autism-related services. Don't worry, there's group of parents here who are not taking it anymore. There's liable to be some major media attention if things don'tstart changing soon.Debi--- Messages in this topic (8) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yes, , the one who said it did so in front of our parent advisory council. He says he prefers to save resources for those most in need. He seems to see all this as some sort of a game. It wouldn't matter if you did request a 40 hr aba program, he'd tell you to sue them. He knows we have no sped attorney around. Debi > > > > > I can't believe that the person in charge actually admitted that. Were > there lots of witnesses? That is truly horrible. I have a friend whose > daughter's school district refused to accept an autism dx from high > functioning kids but even they didn't attempt to deny services to more > impaired kids. (BTW she fought them and eventually won). Since there is > already a private ABA provider perhaps you should ask for a 40 hour a week > home program for this girl paid for by the school district. If you get that > it might motivate the district to develop appropriate programs of their own. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Who would be more in need than this child? Perhaps you might request an evaluation of the Special Ed. Dept. by an outside educational consultant or the State! Perhaps the administration is too top-heavy and that's why resources are too scarce! Alison >From: " Debi " <fightingautism@...> >Reply-EOHarm >EOHarm >Subject: Re: section 504/IDEA >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:10:43 -0000 > >Yes, , the one who said it did so in front of our parent advisory >council. He says he prefers to save resources for those most in need. >He seems to see all this as some sort of a game. It wouldn't matter if >you did request a 40 hr aba program, he'd tell you to sue them. He >knows we have no sped attorney around. > >Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't believe that the person in charge actually admitted that. Were > > there lots of witnesses? That is truly horrible. I have a friend whose > > daughter's school district refused to accept an autism dx from high > > functioning kids but even they didn't attempt to deny services to more > > impaired kids. (BTW she fought them and eventually won). Since >there is > > already a private ABA provider perhaps you should ask for a 40 hour >a week > > home program for this girl paid for by the school district. If you >get that > > it might motivate the district to develop appropriate programs of >their own. > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mkt=en-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 We've tried that. One friend filed a state administrative complaint, she received a letter telling her she had 30 days to respond. The letter was dated 3 weeks prior to the postmark. In other words, they mailed it 21 days into her 30 days to respond to the state saying they wouldn't do anything. The complaint were such things as failing to have a general ed respresentative at numerous meetings, no signature of such on the IEP, yet the state said the school system did have reps there. OCR? Their response is, " What do you want us to do about it? Won't due process take care of that? " The problem is admin is in bed with the state & OCR. OCR needs a class action suit against them as much as our state and local systems. I'm really not kidding when I say we need an attorney who has some balls in this area, there's a ton of parents ready to sign on to a major lawsuit. Debi > > Who would be more in need than this child? Perhaps you might request an > evaluation of the Special Ed. Dept. by an outside educational consultant or > the State! Perhaps the administration is too top-heavy and that's why > resources are too scarce! > > Alison > > > >From: " Debi " <fightingautism@...> > >Reply-EOHarm > >EOHarm > >Subject: Re: section 504/IDEA > >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:10:43 -0000 > > > >Yes, , the one who said it did so in front of our parent advisory > >council. He says he prefers to save resources for those most in need. > >He seems to see all this as some sort of a game. It wouldn't matter if > >you did request a 40 hr aba program, he'd tell you to sue them. He > >knows we have no sped attorney around. > > > >Debi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Where are you guys located? There are some good sped attys around though they are few and far between. Your best bet is to find other sped parents in your area and together you can take on these districts. They will fight you and it will take time, but you can and will make progress. I'm president of East End Special Education Parents in NY. It's taken us 2 + years but we are draging our districts kicking and screaming into compliance. You all must work together, though and they will try to divide you by giving one of your group what their kid needs. It's not easy but it can be done. You guys are already fighting the good fight for your kids individually. Now, do it together and you can increase your degree of success. OCR is a joke, but emailing USDOE and your own DOE often can be effective. Once they know you won't go away, they will try to make you go away by enforcing the laws, though it might just be for your kid. My state ed rep knows the minute he gets a complaint from me, he better start working. He has been known to literally hide under the desk and prentend not to be there when I call. Finally, there is nothing like walking to an IEP meeting with 4 or 5 other knowledgable sped parents to level the playing field. The first time you do so, the district will (** & ^^ in their pants. I have had a teacher run out crying from a meeting I was at for another parent and I didnt even open my mouth. The presence of other parents was enough to force them to do the right thing. Feel free to contact me off board at billsreef@.... Kathy Chamberlain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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