Re: Let's drug 'em

[Guest guest]

Ok, I'm certainly no fan of his, and maybe I'm missing something, but what does this article have to do with Rush Limbaugh??On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:05 AM, olerist wrote:Let the Limbaugh jokes begin... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

[Guest guest]

He is addicted to oxytocin(or was)cathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote: Ok, I'm certainly no fan of his, and maybe I'm missing something, but what does this article have to do with Rush Limbaugh?? On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:05 AM, olerist wrote: Let the Limbaugh jokes begin... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

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[Guest guest]

No, he was addicted to Oxy-contin (sp) Oxytocin is what a woman's

body naturally produces when she goes into labor.

But, I get your train of tought.....

>

> Let the Limbaugh jokes begin...

>

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> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

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> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

[Guest guest]

Ohhhhh, I see the confusion now.... Rush Limbaugh was addicted to OXYCONTIN, a highly addictive opioid agonist and a controlled substance...As opposed to OXYTOCIN, a natural pituitary hormone involved in social recognition, bonding and trust formation, and definitely NOT an addictive drug.On Dec 4, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Maurine Meleck wrote: He is addicted to oxytocin(or was)cathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote: Ok, I'm certainly no fan of his, and maybe I'm missing something, but what does this article have to do with Rush Limbaugh?? On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:05 AM, olerist wrote: Let the Limbaugh jokes begin... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

[Guest guest]

opps sorry I meant to write Oxycontincathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote: Ohhhhh, I see the confusion now.... Rush Limbaugh was addicted to OXYCONTIN, a highly addictive opioid agonist and a controlled substance... As opposed to OXYTOCIN, a natural pituitary hormone involved in social recognition, bonding and trust formation, and definitely NOT an addictive drug. On Dec 4, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Maurine Meleck wrote: He is addicted to oxytocin(or was)cathylynn2 <cathybuckleymac> wrote: Ok, I'm certainly no fan of his, and maybe I'm missing something, but what does this article have to do with Rush Limbaugh?? On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:05 AM, olerist wrote: Let the Limbaugh jokes begin... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

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[Guest guest]

It is the obstetrician who is addicted to the substance by proxy.

Pitocin, the pharmacuetical version of oxytocin, is administered to

excelerate the woman's labor process. I am told this is done usually

to facilitate the doctor's scheduling and has little else to do with

the health of the mother or baby unless the woman is having an

unusually long labor -- which in itself is not necessarily a disorder.

(Many episiotomies are unnecessary as well, which critics refer to as

ritual genital mutilation.

http://www.changesurfer.com/Hlth/episiotomy.html Recent studies show

that fetal monitoring devices don't improve things for the baby,

either.) Western medicine treats childbirth as a surgical/disease

process needing medical intervention with lots of insurance billable

proceedures. Answer: reduce iatrogens, think home birth with a

licensed midwife.

Lenny

-- In EOHarm , " andrea52521991 " <mkeller@...> wrote:

>

> No, he was addicted to Oxy-contin (sp) Oxytocin is what a woman's

> body naturally produces when she goes into labor.

>

> But, I get your train of tought.....

>

>

> >

> > Let the Limbaugh jokes begin...

> >

> >

> > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/g-nrs120106.php

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful

> email and get things done faster.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was also on pitocin, nearly full blast for 15 hours. Unfortunately, I had never gone into labor on my own ( No efacement or dilation) and was 10 days post due date. They induced and I never got beyond 4cm dilated. Because they had the pitocin so strong, the contractions were unbearable and I had narcotics and an epidural. After 15 hours, began to show signs of distress, and they rushed us to the ER for a c-section. I have often wondered if we should have done the c-section first? His apgar scores were good, 8 and 9. I carry a mutation on the MTHFR gene, how did his birth affect him in conjunction with the later toxic onslaught from vaccines?? I try not to feel too guilty and just focus on making things better.

[Guest guest]

I know having a midwife is popular, but if you've ever delivered a

stillborn baby because the cord was wrapped around his neck and every

push was choking him, then the idea of monitors is much more

comforting, because fetal distress *can* be picked up and physicians

can have an opportunity for quick delivery. That said, too many times

physicians don't use this opportunity and the baby ends up dead or

with CP.

Debi

>

>

> It is the obstetrician who is addicted to the substance by proxy.

> Pitocin, the pharmacuetical version of oxytocin, is administered to

> excelerate the woman's labor process. I am told this is done usually

> to facilitate the doctor's scheduling and has little else to do with

> the health of the mother or baby unless the woman is having an

> unusually long labor -- which in itself is not necessarily a disorder.

> (Many episiotomies are unnecessary as well, which critics refer to as

> ritual genital mutilation.

> http://www.changesurfer.com/Hlth/episiotomy.html Recent studies show

> that fetal monitoring devices don't improve things for the baby,

> either.) Western medicine treats childbirth as a surgical/disease

> process needing medical intervention with lots of insurance billable

> proceedures. Answer: reduce iatrogens, think home birth with a

> licensed midwife.

>

> Lenny

[Guest guest]

A trained midwife knows how to check for early signs of a wrapped cord

and/or a breech as well as any doctor. It is a matter of weighing the

risk of iatrogenic pathology vs. the offset value of modern medical

technology -- which is always an ER away. It wasn't until only the

1940's that healthy pregnant women went to institutions full of sick

and diseased people (hospitals) to have their healthy babies. Before

then, doctors had this quaint practice known as house calls. Birthing

chairs http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/gayeranderson14.jpg

were often kept close by the home so that delivery could happen in a

more natural squatting position, taking advantage of gravity's help.

Lenny

(who has attended and assisted in a half-dozen home births in an

earlier life).

> >

> >

> > It is the obstetrician who is addicted to the substance by proxy.

> > Pitocin, the pharmacuetical version of oxytocin, is administered to

> > excelerate the woman's labor process. I am told this is done usually

> > to facilitate the doctor's scheduling and has little else to do with

> > the health of the mother or baby unless the woman is having an

> > unusually long labor -- which in itself is not necessarily a disorder.

> > (Many episiotomies are unnecessary as well, which critics refer to as

> > ritual genital mutilation.

> > http://www.changesurfer.com/Hlth/episiotomy.html Recent studies show

> > that fetal monitoring devices don't improve things for the baby,

> > either.) Western medicine treats childbirth as a surgical/disease

> > process needing medical intervention with lots of insurance billable

> > proceedures. Answer: reduce iatrogens, think home birth with a

> > licensed midwife.

> >

> > Lenny

>

[Guest guest]

The things we continue to learn about you Mr. Schafer....

I was on a Pitocin drip with my son for 12 plus hours, cranked to the

max. I always wondered how that affected his overall health.

> > >

> > >

> > > It is the obstetrician who is addicted to the substance by

proxy.

> > > Pitocin, the pharmacuetical version of oxytocin, is

administered to

> > > excelerate the woman's labor process.

[Guest guest]

Yes, my grandmother delivered her baby at home in 1928 and her

firstborn, a son, was born dead. His cord was wrapped around his neck,

the trained midwife had no idea. I agree, I think hospitals do way

too much, I'm just pointing out there are risks to either. I used to

spend every summer on her farm, by then she was in her late 70's,

telling me that story each year, crying about her lost baby. As a

young married woman she also went to homes to help the doctor deliver

babies, so she was well-versed at her young age what a " normal "

delivery should have been. Now I know today's midwives to have access

to better technology, such as a doppler, so it's not entirely the same

thing. From my reading on the breastfeeding board, that strongly

prefers home deliveries, it's depending on midwife as to what sort of

technology is used.

I went a hospital to deliver my firstborn and I was notified based on

the heartrate that 's cord was probably around her neck.

Thankfully, we were able to speed up the delivery. Though she had red

welts around her neck for about 3 wks following delivery, she was

okay. After Allie got autism and attended a preschool where there were

dozens of wheelchair-bound children with CP whose mothers repeatedly

said, " The cord was around the neck, they were born vaginally... " I

would have insisted on a c-section that moment.

Call me overly allopathic in this regard, I just know way too much in

a very bad way. I've attended births of friends' children, there's

nothing like hearing that first cry, is there?

Debi

>

> A trained midwife knows how to check for early signs of a wrapped cord

> and/or a breech as well as any doctor. It is a matter of weighing the

> risk of iatrogenic pathology vs. the offset value of modern medical

> technology -- which is always an ER away. It wasn't until only the

> 1940's that healthy pregnant women went to institutions full of sick

> and diseased people (hospitals) to have their healthy babies. Before

> then, doctors had this quaint practice known as house calls. Birthing

> chairs http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/gayeranderson14.jpg

> were often kept close by the home so that delivery could happen in a

> more natural squatting position, taking advantage of gravity's help.

>

> Lenny

> (who has attended and assisted in a half-dozen home births in an

> earlier life).

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I was induced with all 3 because complications, the only one I

wasn't given oxytocin with (some pill that wasn't oxytocin) was the

one who ended up with autism.

I have wondered about a connection with oxygen deprivation at birth.

I've heard many, many families say their child was born in fetal

distress or had problems breathing in the first minutes after delivery.

>

> I was also on pitocin, nearly full blast for 15 hours.

Unfortunately, I had

> never gone into labor on my own ( No efacement or dilation) and was

10 days

> post due date. They induced and I never got beyond 4cm dilated.

Because they

> had the pitocin so strong, the contractions were unbearable and I had

> narcotics and an epidural. After 15 hours, began to show

signs of distress,

> and they rushed us to the ER for a c-section. I have often wondered

if we

> should have done the c-section first? His apgar scores were good, 8

and 9. I

> carry a mutation on the MTHFR gene, how did his birth affect him in

conjunction

> with the later toxic onslaught from vaccines?? I try not to feel too

guilty and

> just focus on making things better.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > It is the obstetrician who is addicted to the substance by

> proxy.

> > > > Pitocin, the pharmacuetical version of oxytocin, is

> administered to

> > > > excelerate the woman's labor process.

>

[Guest guest]

> Call me overly allopathic in this regard, I just know way too much in

> a very bad way. I've attended births of friends' children, there's

> nothing like hearing that first cry, is there?

>

I think it should be a part of an older teenager's education (private)

to attend and assist in a home birth and to travel a month through a

3rd world country by bus. Life gets real, real fast.

Lenny

[Guest guest]

That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!!!You're good,

real good!

> I still remember a lot I learned. I can tell how many centimeter's a

> cervix is dilated,. . . even if the woman's not pregnant. These days,

> I try to keep my hands busy with journalism and politics -- a lot less

> dangerous business.

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,

For the applause. But I still may owe the visual thinkers on the list

an apology.

Lenny

>

>

> That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!!!You're good,

> real good!

>

>

>

> > I still remember a lot I learned. I can tell how many centimeter's a

> > cervix is dilated,. . . even if the woman's not pregnant. These days,

> > I try to keep my hands busy with journalism and politics -- a lot less

> > dangerous business.

>

[Guest guest]

I love early morning cervical chit chat! Here's my memory

from " childbirth " classes. The cervix looks like a cheerio at 0

dliated. By 10 centimeters it will look like an English Muffin. My

husband didn't eat breakfast for YEARS after I had the kids. By the

way, I had three babies, 100% naturally, no drugs, no drips, no

aspirin, no episitomy, no nothing except that leather strap to gnaw on -

- still had 3 darlings with ASD.

Sorry if this post made you throw up your own breakfast.

Kim

kimstagliano.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

Leave it to you Kim to crack a cerivix joke so early in the morning.

You only bit on a leather strap? No Family jewels in your hand to

squeeze during labor?

>

> I love early morning cervical chit chat! Here's my memory

> from " childbirth " classes. The cervix looks like a cheerio at 0

> dliated. By 10 centimeters it will look like an English Muffin. My

> husband didn't eat breakfast for YEARS after I had the kids. By the

> way, I had three babies, 100% naturally, no drugs, no drips, no

> aspirin, no episitomy, no nothing except that leather strap to gnaw

on -

> - still had 3 darlings with ASD.

>

> Sorry if this post made you throw up your own breakfast.

>

> Kim

> kimstagliano.blogspot.com

>

[Guest guest]

Like a typical man's mind, focusing on things of " that region. "

<g>

Debi

> I still remember a lot I learned. I can tell how many centimeter's a

> cervix is dilated,. . . even if the woman's not pregnant. These days,

> I try to keep my hands busy with journalism and politics -- a lot less

> dangerous business.

>

[Guest guest]

I can't keep up with every topic on this list, but I'm sure sorry I missed out on this one. I'm probably at the tail end of it, but just had to throw in my two cents since midwifery was my passion prior to autism coming into my life. :-)

When I was in Midwifery school, the statistic being put out there regarding " cord around the neck " (or nuchal cord) was that it happens in 30% of all births. All births. Much of the time the parent might not even know the cord was around the neck because the way you usually handle it is to unwrap it as the baby is born. You usually do it so quick that it is practically a reflex for the " baby catcher " whether, OB, midwife, friend, Daddy, taxi-cab driver, or Lenny. :-) I only attended about 250 to 300 births (mostly home births) during my time as a midwife, and while it was not too uncommon, I do not believe that it occurred 30% of the time. Sometimes the cord was around the neck a couple of times or even three times. Occasionally you have to clamp and cut the cord before the baby can be fully born, but I can only remember seeing and doing this once. I don't ever recall having to transfer to the hospital because of a nuchal cord, however we would transfer due to non-reassuring heart tones, but usually that was due to placental problems. The only stillbirth I ever attended was due to birth defects that were not compatible with life.

Yes oxygen insufficiency is the issue when it comes to CP or sometimes with stillbirth, but it is not usually from a nuchal cord. That would be pretty rare. However that is the story that will mostly be told to parents or that parents will assume was the problem. I'm not saying that there wasn't a nuchal cord, but if there was, that would be the most convenient explanation. For one thing it is a very visual explanation (you can imagine the baby being strangled by the cord even though the baby is not breathing yet at this point and it is not because the neck is compressed that oxygen deprivation occurs). I'm sorry to say this but I do believe another reason parents are told this is because it satisfies them and keeps them from looking into other possible reasons for the oxygen deprivation. (

i.e. overuse of pitocin or other labor stimulation drugs; depression of the automatic nervous system from painkillers given to the mother; and other reasons which may or may not be due to labor interventions) I hate to sound catty, but I probably do... but I also believe that OBs like to tell their patients that it is a good thing they gave birth in the hospital, because the " cord was around the neck " and " what if you hadn't been here with us and a C/Section close by " .... When in reality, cord around the neck is quite common, hardly ever a problem, and many studies have proven that home births with a professional midwife in attendance are as safe for low-risk women or even *safer* than not.

This is just a story, but I like to share it: I was privileged to " catch " my own niece who was born almost 10 years ago now. She was born with her cord wrapped three times around her neck and then it criss-crossed in an " X " shape across her chest and went under both arms. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen and she looked like a little soldier or something as if she was wearing an ammunition belt across her body. Her heart tones were fine all the way through labor and her apgar scores were 9 and 10 if you know what that means (she did great after she was born). It did take me about 30 seconds to unravel her before I could hand her to her Mama though.

Wow... I miss talking about birth. :-D~ Karinp.s. Lenny.... you never cease to amaze me with all you know and have experienced. :-)

[Guest guest]

I think you'll find that " typical " women are just as much interested

in journalism and politics as men. (Mostly I drive a volvo, not a vulva.)

Lenny

>

> Like a typical man's mind, focusing on things of " that region. "

>

> <g>

>

> Debi

>

>

> > I still remember a lot I learned. I can tell how many centimeter's a

> > cervix is dilated,. . . even if the woman's not pregnant. These days,

> > I try to keep my hands busy with journalism and politics -- a lot less

> > dangerous business.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've got at least 6 responses to the " driving " thing but I don't

wanna bring this topic down any more than I already have.

Hahaha

Debi

> >

> > Like a typical man's mind, focusing on things of " that region. "

> >

> > <g>

> >

> > Debi

> >

> >

> > > I still remember a lot I learned. I can tell how many

centimeter's a

> > > cervix is dilated,. . . even if the woman's not pregnant.

These days,

> > > I try to keep my hands busy with journalism and politics -- a

lot less

> > > dangerous business.

> > >

> >

>