[SPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn

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Which is my whole point n....who's to say "what the right decision is?" Would that be you? And anyone who is in "disagreement" is automatically WRONG??

It's this exact "intolerance" towards other parents' efforts that I find disheartening and which I am attempting to address....

Anyway, I think I've spent enough time today in trying to "make the case" for respect and tolerance....

Kelli

Re: [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn

Kelli, there is a chasm of difference between differing on strategies when dealing with an issue pertaining only to your kid AND participating on a committee involved in making a decision which will IMPACT EVERYONE who has Autism. In the latter's case, ONLY the RIGHT decision is ACCEPTABLE.

I agree though that being rude is uncivilized, unnecessary and unwise. it does cause rifts between those who should be allies.

Always remember, that to the big guns against us, a compromised bill is a stick of candy providing them with, more time to deflect, obfuscate, avoid being confronted bythe truth which is their ultimate main objective.

Take care

n

seekingtruth4miles <kellianndavisnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote:

Yes...but this is not some sort of "closed door" tribal meeting between our "family"....this is a semi-public forum which encompasses many groups with differing ideas on how best to address this issue....and because I choose to "tackle" this issue in a different way than you should not be an automatic "invitation" for public ridicule....There are plenty of individuals on this list who I KNOW don't share my "views" and approach on the issue....and truthfully, it's okay....because I believe that they are genuinely doing what they believe "in their heart of hearts" is the absolute best thing for their child....and likewise, I'm doing the same....and that is what I wish we would remember to focus on....Kelli> > > >> > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away from > > criticism. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> >>

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There is only ONE correct or right decision. It's not a decision by who's to say, it's THE decision which ensures that EVERYONE who'll be affected by its impact is affected 100% positively. If a compromise is negotiated especially one where...."if we didn't, the bill wouldn't have passed ", then it's the wrong decision and it shouldn't have been accepted by the negotiators. I know full well that this is extremely difficult, but if the compromise is going to exact too high a price, then walking away is the right decision. The time has come for an absolute unyielding stance to be taken. If a negotiation within the political spectrum is unworkable at a given moment, then a different strategy focussing on a different target is what's called for, eg. going to the media, putting out a press release, laying out the case, so that the millions who read papers or watch

TV will become informed, which in turn, will galvanize their support to pressurize their political representatives, to become the negotiators who yield to the original demands made. The current political process is broken and so it must be fixed. Take care, n Kelli Ann <kellianndavis@...> wrote: Which is my whole point n....who's to say

"what the right decision is?" Would that be you? And anyone who is in "disagreement" is automatically WRONG?? It's this exact "intolerance" towards other parents' efforts that I find disheartening and which I am attempting to address.... Anyway, I think I've spent enough time today in trying to "make the case" for respect and tolerance.... Kelli Re: [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn Kelli, there is a chasm of difference between differing on strategies when dealing with an issue pertaining only to your kid AND participating on a committee involved in making a decision which will IMPACT EVERYONE who has Autism. In the latter's case, ONLY the RIGHT decision is ACCEPTABLE. I agree

though that being rude is uncivilized, unnecessary and unwise. it does cause rifts between those who should be allies. Always remember, that to the big guns against us, a compromised bill is a stick of candy providing them with, more time to deflect, obfuscate, avoid being confronted bythe truth which is their ultimate main objective. Take care n seekingtruth4miles <kellianndavisnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote: Yes...but this is not some sort of "closed door" tribal meeting between our "family"....this is a semi-public forum which encompasses many groups with differing ideas on how best to address this issue....and because I choose to "tackle" this issue in a different way than you

should not be an automatic "invitation" for public ridicule....There are plenty of individuals on this list who I KNOW don't share my "views" and approach on the issue....and truthfully, it's okay....because I believe that they are genuinely doing what they believe "in their heart of hearts" is the absolute best thing for their child....and likewise, I'm doing the same....and that is what I wish we would remember to focus on....Kelli> > > >> > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away from > > criticism. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

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Don't agree, the political process is broken, and it must change. Compromises are only made to cover up or protect selfish interests. Lobbyists selfishly "protecting" the interests of their corporate employers is dishonest compromise. There is NOTHING selfish about our position, which is no Hg in anything synthesized for introduction into any human in any form, 100% safe vaccines, or, if they're unsafe in any form, they should be scrapped and an alternative found. Yes it's a tough maybe naiive ask, but so far all the compromises have created a really messed up planet. Emvironmental pollution, food colourings, additives and hormones, screwed up focus by medical establishment on how to approach and treat diseases, increased non biodegradable garbage, etc....... Sorry, but compromise has become too costly because now it's consequences are harming

humans who haven't been born yet, or will be harmed as soon as they are born. the growing tide of Autism is only growing because of compromises. If they are stopped, then it will slow down drastically or maybe stop altogether Take care n Debi <fightingautism@...> wrote: When you make decisions with a group, compromise is often the answer.When you make decisions by self for your child, you don't have tocompromise. Making decisions with a group benefits many, but

thechoices are more limited because of compromise. Debi>> Kelli, there is a chasm of difference between differing onstrategies when dealing with an issue pertaining only to your kid AND participating on a committee involved in making a decisionwhich will IMPACT EVERYONE who has Autism. In the latter's case,ONLY the RIGHT decision is ACCEPTABLE.

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Good points, the problem arises when one has a very solid sound rational position, but then provides 'deflection ammo" to their opponents because of how they approach the negotiation take care nHC <stratpat@...> wrote: Tolerance in the midst of the worst medical scandal in the history of the world, with senators who have made pacts with the devil doing whatever they can to frustrate your purposes, with a medical establishment and agencies that

knowingly poison babies and fetuses in pregnant women, with a President who has sided with one of the worst violators of the public trust in the history of this country because his father has a personal relationship with the company that defoils your offspring- What is to be made of tolerance - other than for you to continue to agree to be poisoned because you don't wish to "annoy" the very same individuals who have displayed such despicable behavior toward you. Tolerance can be suicide- especially where, as here, you are being played by those very same individuals seeking tolerance to defang you. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn Kelli, think of how many of us have "shadow syndrome". I think many ofus parents have the scatters of autism, especially the rigidity. Hardto be tolerant when many of us just don't know how. How many of ushave heard doctors say they've never seen people who wouldn't take nofor an answer like autism parents. I don't think it's just having akid with autism, I think it's something in us that we

don't know howto take no. I realize it more and more as I watch Allie iggy us overand over because she doesn't understand the no concept. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, at least in my house. Mymother got her prayer, I had a few just like me <g>Debi>> Which is my whole point n....who's to say "what the rightdecision is?" Would that be you? And anyone who is in "disagreement"is automatically WRONG??> > It's this exact "intolerance" towards other parents' efforts that Ifind disheartening and which I am attempting to address....> > Anyway, I think I've spent enough time today in trying to "make thecase" for respect and tolerance....> > Kelli

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Tolerance in the midst of the worst medical scandal in the history of the world, with senators who have made pacts with the devil doing whatever they can to frustrate your purposes, with a medical establishment and agencies that knowingly poison babies and fetuses in pregnant women, with a President who has sided with one of the worst violators of the public trust in the history of this country because his father has a personal relationship with the company that defoils your offspring-

What is to be made of tolerance - other than for you to continue to agree to be poisoned because you don't wish to "annoy" the very same individuals who have displayed such despicable behavior toward you.

Tolerance can be suicide- especially where, as here, you are being played by those very same individuals seeking tolerance to defang you.

[sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn

Kelli, think of how many of us have "shadow syndrome". I think many ofus parents have the scatters of autism, especially the rigidity. Hardto be tolerant when many of us just don't know how. How many of ushave heard doctors say they've never seen people who wouldn't take nofor an answer like autism parents. I don't think it's just having akid with autism, I think it's something in us that we don't know howto take no. I realize it more and more as I watch Allie iggy us overand over because she doesn't understand the no concept. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, at least in my house. Mymother got her prayer, I had a few just like me <g>Debi>> Which is my whole point n....who's to say "what the rightdecision is?" Would that be you? And anyone who is in "disagreement"is automatically WRONG??> > It's this exact "intolerance" towards other parents' efforts that Ifind disheartening and which I am attempting to address....> > Anyway, I think I've spent enough time today in trying to "make thecase" for respect and tolerance....> > Kelli

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There is a need for a complete restructuring of government oversight of companies seeking to put products into the marketplace without rigorous testing- that is a job for congress- as corrupt as it is.

There is a need for a complete restructuring of the medical institutions which allow politics to dictate scientific research such that whatever comes out of once stellar scientific organizations cannot be trusted.

There is a need for the tort system to provide the checks and balances on companies which put dangerous products into the marketplace.

There is a need to put the health of pregnant mothers, babies and children FAR ABOVE the corrupt processes which exist today.

There is an absolute need, given the failure of the mainstream media to tell this truth so that we may progress in spite of it.

And it is our obligation to this society, knowing what we know, to do so.

Re: [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn

Don't agree, the political process is broken, and it must change. Compromises are only made to cover up or protect selfish interests. Lobbyists selfishly "protecting" the interests of their corporate employers is dishonest compromise.

There is NOTHING selfish about our position, which is no Hg in anything synthesized for introduction into any human in any form, 100% safe vaccines, or, if they're unsafe in any form, they should be scrapped and an alternative found.

Yes it's a tough maybe naiive ask, but so far all the compromises have created a really messed up planet. Emvironmental pollution, food colourings, additives and hormones, screwed up focus by medical establishment on how to approach and treat diseases, increased non biodegradable garbage, etc.......

Sorry, but compromise has become too costly because now it's consequences are harming humans who haven't been born yet, or will be harmed as soon as they are born. the growing tide of Autism is only growing because of compromises. If they are stopped, then it will slow down drastically or maybe stop altogether

Take care

n

Debi <fightingautism > wrote:

When you make decisions with a group, compromise is often the answer.When you make decisions by self for your child, you don't have tocompromise. Making decisions with a group benefits many, but thechoices are more limited because of compromise. Debi>> Kelli, there is a chasm of difference between differing onstrategies when dealing with an issue pertaining only to your kid AND participating on a committee involved in making a decisionwhich will IMPACT EVERYONE who has Autism. In the latter's case,ONLY the RIGHT decision is ACCEPTABLE.

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n,

As the old saying goes, "There are many ways to skin a cat" and as such, there are "many ways" to get to the same goal...and while I'm sure that most of us on this list probably share the "same goal" that does NOT mean that we will necessarily be in agreement on the "processes" that get us to that goal.

These are "approach" issues and I know from personal experience over the last several years, that there are "divides" within our community on which "approaches" should be implemented....hence, the "Who's to say which decision (opinion on approach) is correct?" We are a diversified bunch of folks and that's why there are multiple groups....each group encompassing their own unique "take" in regards to this issue....

Your "walking away decision" is exactly that....yours. And while I totally respect your right to that "approach" I certainly don't agree with it. And because you "believe it" doesn't mean you're "right" and I'm "wrong"....THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL POINT that I'm trying to make here....THERE WILL ALWAYS BE DIFFERING OPINIONS....but there should ALWAYS be mutual respect and tolerance towards fellow parents -- regardless of which "approach" (or group) they align themselves with.

Kelli

Re: [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn

Kelli, there is a chasm of difference between differing on strategies when dealing with an issue pertaining only to your kid AND participating on a committee involved in making a decision which will IMPACT EVERYONE who has Autism. In the latter's case, ONLY the RIGHT decision is ACCEPTABLE.

I agree though that being rude is uncivilized, unnecessary and unwise. it does cause rifts between those who should be allies.

Always remember, that to the big guns against us, a compromised bill is a stick of candy providing them with, more time to deflect, obfuscate, avoid being confronted bythe truth which is their ultimate main objective.

Take care

n

seekingtruth4miles <kellianndavisnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote:

Yes...but this is not some sort of "closed door" tribal meeting between our "family"....this is a semi-public forum which encompasses many groups with differing ideas on how best to address this issue....and because I choose to "tackle" this issue in a different way than you should not be an automatic "invitation" for public ridicule....There are plenty of individuals on this list who I KNOW don't share my "views" and approach on the issue....and truthfully, it's okay....because I believe that they are genuinely doing what they believe "in their heart of hearts" is the absolute best thing for their child....and likewise, I'm doing the same....and that is what I wish we would remember to focus on....Kelli> > > >> > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away from > > criticism. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> >>

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Good point, and then they realized ."hey, this problem will get huge, out of hand, unmanageable, so let's fix it now" which they did, but to-day's buffoons don't have the incentive because they're selfish and uncaring. I'm not referring to you debi or those you worked with, I'm referring to the other side Take care nHC <stratpat@...> wrote: Not exactly right. Note that when this society discovered in the late 50's. early

60's that 11-12 children were maimed by thalidomide in utero, the FDA was completely restructured and Congress descended on the culprits like a pack of wolves. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn I ain't saying the

process ain't broken, but what I am saying is thathistorically groups who seek to find a solution end up in compromise.I'm not saying it's best or ideal, just historically what happens. Debi>> Don't agree, the political process is broken, and it must change. Compromises are only made to cover up or protect selfish interests. Lobbyists selfishly "protecting" the interests of their corporateemployers is dishonest compromise.> >

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I'm not totally with you on the ignorant ones, unless they choose to be so, but heavens, anyone in the autism community who doesn't know of the Hg thing is really worse than an ostrich with its head in the sand ! Take care nHC <stratpat@...> wrote: We should treat the members of the autism community with all measures of respect- except those who, either through ignorance or intent, go out of their way to corrupt our attmempts to seek justice and to

correct this horrendous wrong. Lead, follow- or get the hell out of the way! [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn I agree Kelli. I chat with adults with autism that are all about theneurodiversity thing. They are immediately offended by me and me bythem. Yet once we open the fingers to communication we find that wereally aren't so different from each other. many of the neurodiversitypeople don't want people with autism to suffer from health conditionsand many of us trying to heal our kids are not about not respectingthem as people. Yet human nature, and especially autism nature, seemsunable to comprehend the other's thoughts and gets so stuck on oneaspect they can't get past it. If we come together and want 3 things and 2 get accomplished, that'sprogress. Not ideal, but progress. And through the fight to get the 2,new people become enlightened and are more open the next time thesingle issue comes up. Eventually, it too shall come to pass we justcan't grow weary in the battle and we can't

alienate ourselves fromthose who aren't too far from our support, we must find ways toencourage them to join us. Telling them how bad they suck typicallyisn't the ideal way. More flies with sugar and all that.Debi>> n,> > As the old saying goes, "There are many ways to skin a cat" and as > such, there are "many ways" to get to the same goal...and while I'm > sure that most of us on this list probably share the "same goal" > that does NOT mean that we will necessarily be in agreement on > the "processes" that get us to that goal.> >

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"The time has come the walrus said to speak of other things" I loved that song as a kid, and yes it's come time to alter to the ONLY correct strategy, ie. no compromise. Our kids can't wait and those unborns who are being lined up in front of the firing squad ....oh the calamity. If you're driving and the car in front stops, do you ride up his a--- when you could have stopped in time ? The purveyors of the Hg poison are making parents eagerly awaiting the births of their babies do just that. This is mindboggling. How can the country claiming to lead the world in science nd technology be so obtuse ? we have to do like the resistance in WW II, blow up the train tracks. It has to be stopped Take care n HC <stratpat@...> wrote: You and I fundamentally disagree on the process. Whereas you simply state "we agree to disagree" I say that specific approach actually corrupts the process. I believe you are fundamentally wrong. I believe your strategy is absolutely wrong. You appear not to have much experience (if any) in

negotiations. And if you do, why you are taking the positions that you take? It seems as if you are working at cross purposes to the goals of the group. If you have extensive negotiating experience, then I question your motivations. Because your approach is synchronous with delay and deny. We must actually get something done here. This is not a debating society. If you want that- there is a ton of make-work projects at the UN. By agreeing to disagree you simply frustrate the purposes of the goal- you must know that by positing your

negotiating strategy you are playing into the hands of the thimerosal deniers who refuse to address the one paramount issue regarding the mercury in vaccines and the poisoning of a generation of children. They seek to deny and delay. It is a classical tactic used by people on the defensive. Running out the clock cannot be our strategy. It should be and is their strategy. It should not be yours. And if it is yours- tell us your plan.

Because if the approach is to play into their hands through your tactics, my antenna go way, way up. Nice nice is not a result. It is a plan for suicide. You have leverage. Understand your leverage. And use it. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree"....Hopefully, our statement (to be issued shortly) will help explain in greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this difficult and challenging process....Kelli> > > > > >> > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away from > > > > criticism. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger

to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > things done faster.> >>

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OK lets not turn this into a personal p----g contest, please. The thrust of his position and mine is that whatever strategies involved and employed up to this point in time, coupled with the way the political process is presently practiced, have not yielded the result we ALL want. THEREFORE, this begs and necessitates a complete reformation of how business should be done in this issue The mixing of medicine and politics is disgusting. To merely say that's the way it's been done and therefore it's the right way, is bogus. Corruption, obfuscation and deflection have rooted themselves into the process. There are too many fingers in the pie. How can we possibly accomplish our goals when the pro Hg lobby have every intention of continuing business as usual There is no law that says anyone has to work within the existing framework. It is time to change stride and adopt a

new approach, because, as both you and i know full well, our kids don't have the luxuary of time and delaying on theirside Take care, n. I COMMEND YOU AND OTHERS WHO WORK DILIGENTLY trying to resolve this problem. It is certainly valid to posture that compromise does play into the hands of our foes.seekingtruth4miles <kellianndavis@...> wrote: Okay...so then "we fundamentally disagree"...is that better

"verbage" for you ;-)Since I have no idea who you are (and likewise, you don't know me either) making "broad based" remarks on my what you percieve to be my "stance" are based on conjecture at this point....I haven't shared much at this point except to say that we need to have respect and tolerance for each other....wouldn't you agree?Regarding "the group"....which group are you referring to? There are many groups which are represented on this list...and as such, there are many different ideas on how best to "tackle" this issue....in my case, I've chosen to "align" myself with other individuals whose strategies/approaches most closely mirror my own....and I am 100% committed to working towards our "group goals" and do this on a daily basis (hence, why I don't belong to "lists" --not enough time in the day and I'd rather focus on forward movement;i.e."getting something done" as you so aptly put

it :-)Regarding "negotiations"....I've "aligned" myself with some of the best individuals in this community who I think are absolutely "brilliant" in this department...and I'm guessing that most of the individuals on this list would agree...and your assumption that our negotiations involve "delay and deny" are exactly that...assumptions.So please, give me the "benefit of the doubt" and I will likewise do the same for you.Kelli Ann SafeMinds EOHarm , HC <stratpat@...> wrote:>> You and I fundamentally disagree on the process.> > Whereas you simply state "we agree to disagree" > I say that specific approach actually corrupts the process. > I believe you are fundamentally wrong. I believe your strategy is absolutely wrong. > > You appear not to have much experience (if

any) in negotiations. And if you do, why you are taking the positions that you take? It seems as if you are working at cross purposes to the goals of the group. > > If you have extensive negotiating experience, then I question your motivations. Because your approach is synchronous with delay and deny. > > We must actually get something done here. > This is not a debating society.> If you want that- there is a ton of make-work projects at the UN. > > By agreeing to disagree you simply frustrate the purposes of the goal- you must know that by positing your negotiating strategy you are playing into the hands of the thimerosal deniers who refuse to address the one paramount issue regarding the mercury in vaccines and the poisoning of a generation of children. They seek to deny and delay. > > It is a classical tactic used by people on the defensive. > >

Running out the clock cannot be our strategy. > > It should be and is their strategy. > > It should not be yours. > > And if it is yours- tell us your plan. > > Because if the approach is to play into their hands through your tactics, my antenna go way, way up. > > Nice nice is not a result.> > It is a plan for suicide. > > You have leverage.> > Understand your leverage.> > And use it.> > > [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn > > > Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree"....> > Hopefully, our statement (to be

issued shortly) will help explain in > greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this > difficult and challenging process....> > Kelli> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away > from > > > > > criticism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> ---------------------------------> > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. > > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > > things done faster.> > >> >>

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Yikes, a little harsh here, let's not become personally denigrating. I wholeheartedly understand your passion, frustration and fear that this epidemic is siralling out of control. That it is also being accelerated and aided along by the stubborn selfish intransigence of congress pharma et al. What's done is done. as you said prior, lets hope for a new more appeasing congress after the upcoming elections, to re-open the negotiation so that we can install the proper measures needed to annihilate this Hg autism aetiology. many people worked their butts off to get something done against insurmountable odds. the only mistake they made could be that they didn't walk away from the table. They all desired to address the issue to the best they could but it fell short of what is required. The positive aspect now for us is that our feet are in the door and negotiations can

begin from a position well down the road instead of square one. I do thank them for their efforts but at the same time I hope that they have learned from their experience such that they will be willing to walk away if the issue isn't correctly resolved. take care, nHC <stratpat@...> wrote: I've seen enough to know that your tactics are flawed- just based upon what you've written on the posts here and the results

obtained. As far as benefit of the doubt- I can only say- I'm from Missouri. I respond only to what I've seen so far. That speaks for itself. Moreover, I know that anyone who considers research into the "autism gene" as a primary goal without first addressing the real problem of thimerosal and toxicological research separately on thimerosal, vaccines and thimerosal in vaccines (all three) is buying into a canard and has absolutely no understanding of the underlying etiology of the autism epidemic or this horrendous scandal. Alternatively, if you truly believe this nonsense and believe you are right, you have forfeited any credibility and goodwill you might have otherwise garnered

through your marginally competent efforts- assuming they were at least conducted in good faith. And if you don't believe it and the negotiations were not conducted in good faith- then you are the worst shill imaginable. So what is it? Half measures, delay tactics, kissy face and non-credible discourse on the etiology of what is essentially a toxicological problem evidence a vacuousness not worthy of discourse- or something far more sinister. Going hat in hand to a group which poisoned millions of children in this society, which continues to

intentionally do the same to babies and pregnant women all the while stating that "we can agree to disagree" is not capable of making any case for anyone. I leave it to you to explain yourself and to tell us more. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn > > > Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree".....> > Hopefully, our statement (to be issued shortly) will help explain in > greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this > difficult and challenging process....> > Kelli> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away > from > > > > > criticism. > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.. > > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

---------------------------------> > > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > > things done faster.> > >> >>

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When you internalize and believe your postulate, you accept mediocrity. Again individual schmoozing and compromise in your kid's IEP only affects your kid, BUT when you are acting on behalf of 100's of thousands, your compromises affect their lives intrinsically Changing from dishonest, despicable, dishonourable conduct towards open sincere honesty, is not compromising, nor is it wrong. You don't jump off the bridge because your buddies are doing so..as your mother or father used to tell you I'm sure. If you want to call being honest, changing human nature, then heck yes I say unequivocally, with alacrity and without ANY reservations, YES MAAM PLEASE BRING IT ON. My thesiss throughout this debate/discussion has been consistent.. The system is broke and it must be fixed. The way things are done in DC Congress, the way things are done in

cprporate boardrooms have #$%%^^$@'d up this world. so yes it has to change. it requires courage and clearness of purpose and objectives. When you hold to the moral correct position, there is no need for compromise. Your only strategies should be, how to browbeat your opposition into recognizing the folly of their ways and positions and acquiescing to swith over to doing the right or correct things. You cannot negotiate towards the truth if one party relies on fallacious evidence purely because of intransigence. Their foundational premise is flawed. They see it as their truth, but the reality is, that it isn't. the truth is what it is. we are fortunate in that we hold to the true position, not because we choose to, but because it is the truth and nothing any detractor says or does is going to change it. Oure only srategy should

have as its focus, how to convince mainstream Barnabus and Getrude public of that truth so they'll bring pressure to bear upon their voting reps in congress. Here is where strategies and compromises come into play, not on the truth of the issue of Hg thimerosal vaccine efficacy etc.... Play the game ,but play it honestly and you will win because nothing is more powerful than the truth. I suggest that a battleplan be drawn up and it's implementation be timed to launch at the time the movie "Evidence of Harm" comes out. If it is a tearjerker, every mother will shrill for blood. The tide will hit the bad guys like a tsunami. they'll be begging us to throw them a lifeline. Take care n What you're suggesting is to change human nature. That's far beyondone issue and, no matter how well-meaning and idealistic, does itreally serve this issue to try to do so? Wouldn't attempting to changehuman nature quickly lose the sight of helping the kids? I hate havingto schmooze at IEP meetings, but the fact is, it's human nature. Ishouldn't have to try and suck up to the people who are supposed tohelp my child, but often to get the help I must. Should I change it? Icould try, but it wouldn't help my daughter. Same thing with biggerstuff. What you propose, in addition to changing human nature, wouldrequire an entire overthrow of the

government, and even then therestructuring would end up with the same old problems, it always hasand always will. P.S. To all homeland security people, no I'm not seriously suggestingsuch, just posing a philosophical discussion, lol.Debi> I ain't saying the process ain't broken, but what I amsaying is that> historically groups who seek to find a solution end up in compromise.> I'm not saying it's best or ideal, just historically what happens.

> > Debi> >

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

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I've seen enough to know that your tactics are flawed- just based upon what you've written on the posts here and the results obtained.

As far as benefit of the doubt-

I can only say- I'm from Missouri. I respond only to what I've seen so far. That speaks for itself.

Moreover, I know that anyone who considers research into the "autism gene" as a primary goal without first addressing the real problem of thimerosal and toxicological research separately on thimerosal, vaccines and thimerosal in vaccines (all three) is buying into a canard and has absolutely no understanding of the underlying etiology of the autism epidemic or this horrendous scandal. Alternatively, if you truly believe this nonsense and believe you are right, you have forfeited any credibility and goodwill you might have otherwise garnered through your marginally competent efforts- assuming they were at least conducted in good faith.

And if you don't believe it and the negotiations were not conducted in good faith- then you are the worst shill imaginable.

So what is it?

Half measures, delay tactics, kissy face and non-credible discourse on the etiology of what is essentially a toxicological problem evidence a vacuousness not worthy of discourse- or something far more sinister.

Going hat in hand to a group which poisoned millions of children in this society, which continues to intentionally do the same to babies and pregnant women all the while stating that "we can agree to disagree" is not capable of making any case for anyone.

I leave it to you to explain yourself and to tell us more.

[sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn > > > Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree".....> > Hopefully, our statement (to be issued shortly) will help explain in > greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this > difficult and challenging process....> > Kelli> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away > from > > > > > criticism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.. > > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > > things done faster.> > >> >>

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You're OK mate, you can still be on my team anyday ! I share your urgency and wholeheartedly agree that the time is now to make "custer's last stand" because, as we all know by sundown this evening 2 0r more families will be snared into Autism's web of misery Take care, nHC <stratpat@...> wrote: You're right, n. My passion sometime gets the better (best) of me. Thanks

for the reality check. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn > > > Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree".....> > Hopefully, our statement (to be issued shortly) will help explain in > greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this > difficult and challenging process....> > Kelli> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away > from > > > > > criticism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates starting at

1¢/min.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.. > > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > > things done faster.> > >> >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

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ABSOLUTELY AGREE, HOWEVER, WE WON'T GET A HEARING IF WE COME ACCROSS LIKE AND ANGRY MOB BAYING FOR BLOOD. HERE IS WHERE THE COMPROMISE COMES IN. NEVER ON THE OBJECTIVE, BUT HOW WE APPROACH AND GET THERE. I DON'T AGREE THAT A WATERED DOWN VERSION IS VALID, BUT TACTICS MUST BE FIRM AND CLEAR. THEY MUST WALK AWAY IF THE OBJECTIVE IS GOING TO BE COMPROMISED TAKE CARE JULIAN ps sorry for capitals hit the wrong key and didn't want to retypeHC <stratpat@...> wrote: That present danger is one of the primary motivators of why we fight so hard. The therapy for our children is critical and time is of the essence there, but getting parents to understand the potential danger to their chilren in the present vaccine protocol, in the flu vaccine and recommendations by certain corrupt government health officials and pediatric inistitutions is absolutely critical. [sPAM?] Re: Censorship now ??? Re: Response to OpEd by lynn > > > Well....in this case we will have to "agree to disagree".....> > Hopefully, our statement (to be issued shortly) will help explain in > greater detail WHY we chose to "stay at the table" during this > difficult and challenging

process....> > Kelli> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We move forward from criticism, we don't back away > from > > > > > criticism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.. > > Small Business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get > > things done faster.> > >> >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

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I was just thinking about a former manager at Applebee's. Whenever the

tips were bad that day he'd always say, " All you women are sittin on a

gold mine, don't know why you're complainin'. " Sounds like gold ain't

goin for much.

<g>

Debi

>

>

> Are you kidding?!?! Like I said, Kelli and friends are not for sale.

> But if they were, any one of them is easily worth a million dollars.

> I'm just not real impressed with their negotiating skills. ;-)

>

> Jay Lenny

>