Re: Comedy Central Event for Autism = use the $ for inclusion = Equality

October 18, 2006

The bottom line is still that society must come to see ALL people as equals. Separating individuals on the basis of conduct etc, only re-inforces stereotypes. It's an admission of incompetance on the part of inadequately trained professionals. Just think if every teacher was forced to learn as part of their training how to approach and teach children with difficulties, there wouldn't be need for special schools etc. All the "special" programs would just be part of the gen ed scene. The classrooms would have aides specialists in different fields stc,but the message would be ingrained, inculcated programmed that ALL kids are the same. The end result, the so called NT kids would graduate seeing everyone as equals so that when they enter the big wide world, their persepectives and attitudes would be more open minded and compassionate. This would have the effect of translating into greater inclusion for everyone. Our kids could still Have the

special therapies like speech OT Sensory etc. only they'd just be part of the general curriculum activities that occur in the classrooms. As long as we continue the paradigm of seperation, we're perpetuating the same old same old crap. Special schools institutions will continue to reinforce negativity. It would be far more beneficial for them to be viewed as just part of the everyday fare. That would truly send the message of equality. Take care, n School districts will never be up to the challenge until they are made to be.As long as special schools exist they will automatically send kids there because it is easier for them.I didn't like the tone of the show that it is either special segregated schools or

institutions. The answer is to close both, in my opinion. Laurie>> Dear n,> > I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum and my son> has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree that> "autism schools" are not paths to inclusion. In my experience the goals of> these programs are often to "graduate" kids to their district schools with> the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms. The school> that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular school in mind> when planning his program, much more so than the "integrated" class he had> been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his integrated

class> one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming with the> binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him. He didn't> look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at the light> glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would have> written in the communication notebook that he had "participated" in the> camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in a very> restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the things he> needed to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in line,> raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools are> taught skills which will allow them to function in society.> I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included in a> regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the issues that> come up. For a parent who

is not able to keep on top of things, an autism> program is better than their child being dumped into an inappropriate> situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be trained to> handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day is clearly> not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure that the> school districts are up to the challenge.> > > > > ------------ ---> Ezor> sezor@... >

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

October 18, 2006

n, Your concept of a new world order sounds great, but I think it's a pipe dream. It's almost wishing for no more wars It just ain't gonna happen. My grandson has always been in an inclusion program and I believe he has benefitted from it(being verbal from the get go), but some other friends children have not been able to handle it for a number of reasons and are now in slef contained classrooms for at least part of the day. Being the only autistic child in an inclusion program in his school-I foresee that there will be major problems as he moves up in gradeshow a first or second grader (NT) tolerates and deals with him will be entirely different from a fifth grader, for example-no matter what teachers will say or do. But I love your goal-nothing wrong with wishful thinking. Cheers, Maurinen Wendrow <reedicalousisay@...> wrote: The bottom line is still that society must come to see ALL people as equals. Separating individuals on the basis of conduct etc, only re-inforces stereotypes. It's an admission of incompetance on the part of inadequately trained professionals. Just think if every teacher was forced to learn as part of their training how to approach and teach children with difficulties, there wouldn't be need for special schools etc. All the "special" programs would just be part of the gen ed scene. The classrooms would have aides specialists in different fields stc,but the message

would be ingrained, inculcated programmed that ALL kids are the same. The end result, the so called NT kids would graduate seeing everyone as equals so that when they enter the big wide world, their persepectives and attitudes would be more open minded and compassionate. This would have the effect of translating into greater inclusion for everyone. Our kids could still Have the special therapies like speech OT Sensory etc. only they'd just be part of the general curriculum activities that occur in the classrooms. As long as we continue the paradigm of seperation, we're perpetuating the same old same old crap. Special schools institutions will continue to reinforce negativity. It would be far more beneficial for them to be viewed as just part of the everyday fare. That would truly send the message of equality. Take care, n School districts will never be up to the challenge until they are made to be.As long as special schools exist they will automatically send kids there because it is easier for them.I didn't like the tone of the show that it is either special segregated schools or institutions. The answer is to close both, in my opinion. Laurie>> Dear n,> > I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum and my son> has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree that> "autism schools" are not paths to inclusion. In my experience the goals of> these

programs are often to "graduate" kids to their district schools with> the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms. The school> that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular school in mind> when planning his program, much more so than the "integrated" class he had> been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his integrated class> one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming with the> binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him. He didn't> look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at the light> glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would have> written in the communication notebook that he had "participated" in the> camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in a very> restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the things he> needed

to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in line,> raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools are> taught skills which will allow them to function in society.> I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included in a> regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the issues that> come up. For a parent who is not able to keep on top of things, an autism> program is better than their child being dumped into an inappropriate> situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be trained to> handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day is clearly> not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure that the> school districts are up to the challenge.> > > > > ------------ ---> Ezor> sezor@... > Talk is cheap. Use

Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

October 18, 2006

Well, when you come back from utopia, you

will learn that we are all not alike. Kids are NOT the same. Difference is

what makes the world go around. Or is that money? Sex? Hell, whatever. Either

way, you are not benefiting my child by painting him with the same brush as

yours.

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of n Wendrow

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006

7:48 AM

eo harm

Subject: Re: Comedy

Central Event for Autism = use the $ for inclusion = Equality

The bottom line is still that society must come to see ALL

people as equals. Separating individuals on the basis of conduct etc, only

re-inforces stereotypes. It's an admission of incompetance on the part of

inadequately trained professionals. Just think if every teacher was

forced to learn as part of their training how to approach and teach children

with difficulties, there wouldn't be need for special schools etc. All the

" special " programs would just be part of the gen ed scene. The

classrooms would have aides specialists in different fields stc,but the message

would be ingrained, inculcated programmed that ALL

kids are the same. The end result,

the so called NT kids would graduate seeing everyone as equals so that when

they enter the big wide world, their persepectives and attitudes would be more

open minded and compassionate. This would have the effect of translating

into greater inclusion for everyone. Our kids could still Have the

special therapies like speech OT Sensory etc. only they'd just be part of

the general curriculum activities that occur in the classrooms. As long

as we continue the paradigm of seperation, we're perpetuating the same old same

old crap. Special schools institutions will continue to reinforce

negativity. It would be far more beneficial for them to be viewed as just

part of the everyday fare. That would truly send the message of

equality. Take care, n

School

districts will never be up to the challenge until they are made to be.

As long as special schools exist they will automatically send kids there

because it is easier for them.

I didn't like the tone of the show that it is either special segregated schools

or

institutions. The answer is to close both, in my opinion.

Laurie

>

> Dear n,

>

> I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum and my

son

> has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree that

> " autism schools " are not paths to inclusion. In my experience

the goals of

> these programs are often to " graduate " kids to their district

schools with

> the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms. The school

> that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular school in

mind

> when planning his program, much more so than the " integrated "

class he

had

> been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his integrated class

> one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming with the

> binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him. He

didn't

> look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at the light

> glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would have

> written in the communication notebook that he had " participated "

in the

> camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in a very

> restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the things he

> needed to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in line,

> raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools are

> taught skills which will allow them to function in society.

> I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included in a

> regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the issues that

> come up. For a parent who is not able to keep on top of things, an autism

> program is better than their child being dumped into an inappropriate

> situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be trained

to

> handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day is

clearly

> not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure that the

> school districts are up to the challenge.

>

> ------------ ---

> Ezor

> sezor@...

>

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great

rates starting at 1¢/min.

October 18, 2006

Thank you for that Laurie. I've been into my fight for just over two years (my son is four) and I know that because of parents like you, things are easier for me and my family. I can't even imagine what it was like 10+ years ago. I still have to fight for my son to get what he needs and deserves, but I don't have to fight long or as hard as you did to get it.

Thank you,

Vivian

Re: Comedy Central Event for Autism = use the $ for inclusion = Equality

Being a parent of 2 children who have spent all their lives in the regular neighborhood public school (aged 18yo and 15yo) I definitely wouldn't have them anywhere else. Just because you are in public school does not mean you cannot get special ed services. They get SLP, OT, Sensory Integration Therapy, extra resourse pull-out time as needed. They also get to attend school and be with their peers. That's not to say it hasn't had its challenges over the years but you work through them. I do believe in doing everything I can for "my" child but strongly believe you also need to take what time you can in order to effect the social change necessary so that years from now other parents won't have to work so hard at getting their child accepted and included. Because my 18yo son has been included and is known, he worked (with a job coach) in a regular paid job in the community this summer. Had he been segregated all his life he would have just been shuttled off to a sheltered workshop somewhere. (they need to be closed to btw).It's not just about school. It's about the rest of their entire life. I won't be around for all of it. They need to have a good life, with whatever supports they require, in the community. They deserve no less.Laurie> > >> > > Dear n,> > >> > > I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum and> my son> > > has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree that> > > "autism schools" are not paths to inclusion. In my experience the> goals of> > > these programs are often to "graduate" kids to their district> schools with> > > the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms. The> school> > > that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular school> in mind> > > when planning his program, much more so than the "integrated" class> he> > had> > > been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his integrated> class> > > one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming with> the> > > binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him. He> didn't> > > look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at the> light> > > glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would> have> > > written in the communication notebook that he had "participated" in> the> > > camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in a> very> > > restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the things> he> > > needed to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in> line,> > > raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools> are> > > taught skills which will allow them to function in society.> > > I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included in a> > > regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the issues> that> > > come up. For a parent who is not able to keep on top of things, an> autism> > > program is better than their child being dumped into an> inappropriate> > > situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be> trained to> > > handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day is> clearly> > > not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure that> the> > > school districts are up to the challenge.> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > ------------ ---> > > Ezor> > > sezor@> > >> >> >> > ---------------------------------> > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great> rates starting at 1¢/min.> >>

October 18, 2006

Well Holly,

Mark me down as someone who lives in Utopia, because I believe my

child is entitled to the same opportunities as neurotypical children,

and I have waged and won a 5 year battle to get my child what he

needs in the public school system. It took 2 lawsuits, endless

meetings, most of our money and was mentally taxing beyond words.

But we did it. Last year alone brought 11 IEP meetings plus a full

blown 90 minute staff meeting each and every week with my son's

teacher, his behaviorist, a learning consultant and myself. This year

I've already had 3 IEP meetings and have kept up the weekly

meetings. I also meet regularly with the school superintendent,

principal, director of special services and my son's case manager. My

son's K teacher was a nightmare--all smiles and charm on the surface,

but completely unwilling to accommodate my son in the classroom. I

took the " nice " route, and it got me nowhere. I was told to " become

the teacher's best friend " , volunteer in the class all the time, do

her favors, etc., and I did, all with zero results. It was only when

the gloves came off and the lawyers came in and I ruined her

reputation as an exemplary kindergarten teacher by filing formal

complaints against her that I got anywhere. I became the mom who

just wouldn't go away and wouldn't give up--ever. Over the summer

our director of special services was fired, and our school

superintendent hinted strongly to me that all the litigation with

with our family was a big part of the reason.

By the way, my son spent a year at one of the most prestigious ABA

schools in the country and made zero progress. He needed to be with

NT kids.

I wholeheartedly agree with n that our public schools must take

on the responsibility to provide a quality education to children with

autism, and not segregate them. The real issue here is about the

amount of support provided in a public school versus a private autism

school (e.g., 1:1 teaching, 1:1 aide, quality related services like

ST, OT, PT, adequate intensity of interventions). In some parts of

the country you CAN obtain the same level and quality of these

services in a public setting as is available in a special school.

You just have to fight like hell.

Jenna

> >

> > Dear n,

> >

> > I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum

and my

> son

> > has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree

that

> > " autism schools " are not paths to inclusion. In my experience the

goals of

> > these programs are often to " graduate " kids to their district

schools with

> > the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms.

The school

> > that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular

school in

> mind

> > when planning his program, much more so than the " integrated "

class he

> had

> > been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his

integrated class

> > one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming

with the

> > binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him.

He

> didn't

> > look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at

the light

> > glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would

have

> > written in the communication notebook that he had " participated "

in the

> > camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in

a very

> > restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the

things he

> > needed to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in

line,

> > raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools

are

> > taught skills which will allow them to function in society.

> > I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included

in a

> > regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the

issues that

> > come up. For a parent who is not able to keep on top of things,

an autism

> > program is better than their child being dumped into an

inappropriate

> > situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be

trained

> to

> > handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day

is

> clearly

> > not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure

that the

> > school districts are up to the challenge.

> >

> > ------------ ---

> > Ezor

> > sezor@

> >

>

> _____

>

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great

>

<http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd..c

om/evt

> =39666/*http:/messenger.> rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

<http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd..c

om/evt

> =39666/*http:/messenger.>

>

October 18, 2006

Jenna, Good for you!! I applaud parents like you. I am still amazed on how many parents of special needs kids just accept what the public schools recommend. We've had to fight for what my son has gotten, but we haven't had to go as far as you, thank God. We've only had problems with one person and she is nobody. We went above her and got what we wanted. However, it is not beyond my husband and I to get lawyers involved.

We are blessed to have an amazing special needs pre-k teacher that lets us know who to go to when this particular person wants to give us problems. The main problem I have is having to hold my husband back. He said he won't have a problem going to prison if it gets our son what he needs . That person tried to intimidate him (my husband is an almost 200 pound Army ranger) and he ended up intimidating her. She stood back and we haven't heard a peep from her since. Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, what state are you in?

Vivian

Re: Comedy Central Event for Autism = use the $ for inclusion = Equality

Well Holly,Mark me down as someone who lives in Utopia, because I believe my child is entitled to the same opportunities as neurotypical children, and I have waged and won a 5 year battle to get my child what he needs in the public school system. It took 2 lawsuits, endless meetings, most of our money and was mentally taxing beyond words. But we did it. Last year alone brought 11 IEP meetings plus a full blown 90 minute staff meeting each and every week with my son's teacher, his behaviorist, a learning consultant and myself. This year I've already had 3 IEP meetings and have kept up the weekly meetings. I also meet regularly with the school superintendent, principal, director of special services and my son's case manager. My son's K teacher was a nightmare--all smiles and charm on the surface, but completely unwilling to accommodate my son in the classroom. I took the "nice" route, and it got me nowhere. I was told to "become the teacher's best friend", volunteer in the class all the time, do her favors, etc., and I did, all with zero results. It was only when the gloves came off and the lawyers came in and I ruined her reputation as an exemplary kindergarten teacher by filing formal complaints against her that I got anywhere. I became the mom who just wouldn't go away and wouldn't give up--ever. Over the summer our director of special services was fired, and our school superintendent hinted strongly to me that all the litigation with with our family was a big part of the reason.By the way, my son spent a year at one of the most prestigious ABA schools in the country and made zero progress. He needed to be with NT kids. I wholeheartedly agree with n that our public schools must take on the responsibility to provide a quality education to children with autism, and not segregate them. The real issue here is about the amount of support provided in a public school versus a private autism school (e.g., 1:1 teaching, 1:1 aide, quality related services like ST, OT, PT, adequate intensity of interventions). In some parts of the country you CAN obtain the same level and quality of these services in a public setting as is available in a special school. You just have to fight like hell.Jenna> >> > Dear n,> > > > I too think that inclusion is important for kids on the spectrum and my> son> > has been in inclusion for the past 7 years. However, I disagree that> > "autism schools" are not paths to inclusion. In my experience the goals of> > these programs are often to "graduate" kids to their district schools with> > the skills that will allow them to succeed in these classrooms. The school> > that my son attended clearly had his participation in regular school in> mind> > when planning his program, much more so than the "integrated" class he > had> > been in before that. I observed him in circle time in his integrated class> > one day and they were discussing camping. My son was stimming with the> > binoculars and completely oblivious to the discussion around him. He> didn't> > look through the binoculars at the other kids, He just looked at the light> > glinting off the lenses. Had I not been there, the teacher would have> > written in the communication notebook that he had "participated" in the> > camping activity and I wouldn't have been the wiser. I put him in a very> > restrictive program for two years so that he would learn the things he> > needed to before kindergarten ( sitting in a chair, standing in line,> > raising his hand etc.). Even the kids who remain in these schools are> > taught skills which will allow them to function in society.> > I also think that it is hard to have a kid with autism included in a> > regular school. I am constantly on the phone dealing with the issues that> > come up. For a parent who is not able to keep on top of things, an autism> > program is better than their child being dumped into an inappropriate> > situation without support. Perhaps some day all teachers will be trained> to> > handle all different kinds of kids in their classes but that day is> clearly> > not here yet. Your vision is a beautiful one but I'm not sure that the> > school districts are up to the challenge.> > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---> > Ezor> > sezor@ > > > > > > > _____ > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great> <http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd./evt> =39666/*http:/messenger.> rates starting at 1¢/min.> > > <http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd./evt> =39666/*http:/messenger.>>

October 19, 2006

I guess we all just have to pick our

battles. I learned long ago that no matter how perfect an IEP looks on paper,

it’s worthless if the staff are unwilling, unable or untrained to follow

it through. Personally, I’d rather spend my time and energy on biomed

and advocacy. As far as I am concerned, they are the only way out of this

mess.

From:

EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of wewillwin07

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006

2:50 PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Comedy Central

Event for Autism = use the $ for inclusion = Equality