Re: SANTORUM EDITED TRANSCRIPT

[Guest guest]

,

The following is the colloquy that accompanied the CAA bill....as

you'll see the word " thimerosal " IS spoken by Senator Santroum:

Santorum: .... " However, in addressing the key issues within S 843,

some have raised concerns regarding a potential link between

vaccines, vaccine components (such as THIMEROSAL), and autism. Mr.

Chairman, can you clarify your position on this issue? "

Enzi: .... " no research avenue should be eliminated, including

biomedical research examining potential links between vaccines,

vaccine components, and autism spectrum disorder. "

Santorum: " I agree with your comments, Mr. Chairman.Thank you for

clarifying, and again for all of your hard work on this

legislation. "

Regarding Burton, Maloney and Weldon....I don't know the specifics

on that question...but I can certainly ask....

In reference to your comments about " getting between Lenny and

me " ....no worries....we all have our opinions regarding this

bill....and I have no problem with anyone who opposes this bill on

its merits....but when " opinions " are presented as FACTS...that's

when I feel an obligation in setting the record straight....and

that's all I'm trying to do....

Kelli

>

> Dear Kelli,

>

> I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such

division within

> our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have

trouble spelling

> " thimerosal " , but, my cynical nature rises when the word

completely disappears,

> whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.

>

> Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania

that I

> will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to do

so.

>

> In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the

REPRESENTATIVES that

> Santorum " credited " for supporting the CAA in the House?

The " transcript "

> deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely the " Shadow "

guy didn't

> have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME

because I couldn't

> UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them.

>

> Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this

> " contentious " issue, but, I would really like to know what contact

and support Santorum

> has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all, THESE

are the people

> I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]



And, of course, given the expected/suspected motivations of individuals receiving funding from various groups, that is precisely what one expects- regardless of the hollow rhetoric after the fact.

Re: Re: SANTORUM "EDITED" TRANSCRIPT

Since the subject has been raised once again on this list, it is important to be mindful of the context of the CAA colloquy – in its totality. While thimerosal was mentioned this does not mean that research into thimerosal was endorsed. At best, the colloquy was equivocal in its effect. I hold the opinion that it is worse than equivocal as Sen. Enzi's remarks, in response to Sen. Santorum's request for a "clarification" in this area, contained a resounding endorsement of the findings of the 2004 IOM which, as we all know, was dismissive of the idea that vaccines or thimerosal in vaccines is associated with autism. The excerpt that was posted conspicuously omits those passages of the colloquy that dilute or even undo the "mention" of thimerosal. The colloquy was a cleverly crafted statement that any advocate for honest research into vaccines and thimerosal should find highly suspect. (This is true whether or not one still supports CAA, which is a separate issue - we should understand what we are advocating for, and the CAA is less than helpful on thimerosal and vaccine research, no matter how you spin it. If there are justifications nevertheless for supporting the bill so be it, but we cannot pretend the bill supports vaccine or thimerosal research. It does not.)Selective editing is not helpful. One must consider the entire document. Sen. Santorum categorically did not get a colloquy that adequately endorsed research into thimerosal or vaccines. And that is after language mandating such research was omitted from the bill itself. No mention of thimerosal by Sen. Santorum in a tv interview can redeem this failure - at least not in my eyes. Speaking the word "thimerosal" is insufficient when the language in the bill and colloquy is deficient. Sen. Santorum's belated lip service seems more like an effort to curry favor with certain constituencies (Imus) - part of image bolstering - when the real effort to get it into the bill fell short."Just my 2 cents"RJKOn Oct 6, 2006, at 10:20 PM, seekingtruth4miles wrote:

, The following is the colloquy that accompanied the CAA bill....as you'll see the word "thimerosal" IS spoken by Senator Santroum:Santorum: ....."However, in addressing the key issues within S 843, some have raised concerns regarding a potential link between vaccines, vaccine components (such as THIMEROSAL), and autism. Mr. Chairman, can you clarify your position on this issue?"Enzi: ...."no research avenue should be eliminated, including biomedical research examining potential links between vaccines, vaccine components, and autism spectrum disorder."Santorum: "I agree with your comments, Mr. Chairman.Thank you for clarifying, and again for all of your hard work on this legislation." Regarding Burton, Maloney and Weldon....I don't know the specifics on that question...but I can certainly ask....In reference to your comments about "getting between Lenny and me"....no worries....we all have our opinions regarding this bill....and I have no problem with anyone who opposes this bill on its merits....but when "opinions" are presented as FACTS...that's when I feel an obligation in setting the record straight....and that's all I'm trying to do.... Kelli>> Dear Kelli,> > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such division within > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have trouble spelling > "thimerosal", but, my cynical nature rises when the word completely disappears, > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.> > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania that I > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to do so.> > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the REPRESENTATIVES that > Santorum "credited" for supporting the CAA in the House? The "transcript" > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely the "Shadow" guy didn't > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME because I couldn't > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them. > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this > "contentious" issue, but, I would really like to know what contact and support Santorum > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all, THESE are the people > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?> > Thanks.> J. KrakowAttorney At Law2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125Lake Success, New York 11042(516) 354-3300 (646) 349-1771 (fax)(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]

The selective colloquy appears to be helpful. But when read in the context of the entire colloquy it will be taken and interpreted in the future to refuse to look at the thimerosal/vaccine issue (my opinion) as part of the legislative history of this bill. There has historically been a fundamental dishonesty about the way our public health officials, our government, our politicians and our medical institutions have looked at and dealt with this issue. It is Orwellian.

It is symptomatic of what is presently wrong with government information and analysis- in virtually all areas. There is a fundamental distrust of government because of their dishonesty. And it's not just thimerosal/vaccines.

Given the history of this issue and the fundamental dishonesty about the way the information and analysis has been handed, the entire colloquy, when placed in context, raises real suspicions that there will be a further attempt to deny, deflect, derail the truth.

Santorum may prove eventually to be an honest pol and helpful on this issue. And if a favorable future holds, I will eat these words and truly commend him. But at this time, at this point, given the absence of results, the source of his funding and the convenient way this whole CAA issue has played out, I smell a skunk at the front door who is looking to manage this issue to the detriment of the truth. Like I said, I may be wrong. And it may be that he is honest, but he's being frustrated by the White House and their obvious history and motivation. But it is only the results that will convince me.

I am not an insider and I have no facts, I only have my instincts. And I'm just a guy who has a keen sense of smell. But this presently wreaks of an odor of skunk and fish.

Maybe, just maybe, it takes someone from the outside looking in to provide that perspective on reality.

Re: SANTORUM "EDITED" TRANSCRIPT

, The following is the colloquy that accompanied the CAA bill....as you'll see the word "thimerosal" IS spoken by Senator Santroum:Santorum: ...."However, in addressing the key issues within S 843, some have raised concerns regarding a potential link between vaccines, vaccine components (such as THIMEROSAL), and autism. Mr. Chairman, can you clarify your position on this issue?"Enzi: ...."no research avenue should be eliminated, including biomedical research examining potential links between vaccines, vaccine components, and autism spectrum disorder."Santorum: "I agree with your comments, Mr. Chairman.Thank you for clarifying, and again for all of your hard work on this legislation." Regarding Burton, Maloney and Weldon....I don't know the specifics on that question...but I can certainly ask....In reference to your comments about "getting between Lenny and me"....no worries....we all have our opinions regarding this bill....and I have no problem with anyone who opposes this bill on its merits....but when "opinions" are presented as FACTS...that's when I feel an obligation in setting the record straight....and that's all I'm trying to do.... Kelli>> Dear Kelli,> > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such division within > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have trouble spelling > "thimerosal", but, my cynical nature rises when the word completely disappears, > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.> > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania that I > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to do so.> > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the REPRESENTATIVES that > Santorum "credited" for supporting the CAA in the House? The "transcript" > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely the "Shadow" guy didn't > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME because I couldn't > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them. > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this > "contentious" issue, but, I would really like to know what contact and support Santorum > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all, THESE are the people > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?> > Thanks.>

[Guest guest]

So...you're saying that Senator Santorum receives funding from

pharma and as such, his main motivation is to " please them " ....

ly, I don't see how they could be " pleased " after watching him

(on National TV )talk about his sponsorship of a bill in

which " Congress mandates " research to specifically look into the

possible link between vaccines/thimerosal and autism....

Definitely NOT good PR, in my opinion...

Kelli

> >

> > Dear Kelli,

> >

> > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such

> division within

> > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have

> trouble spelling

> > " thimerosal " , but, my cynical nature rises when the word

> completely disappears,

> > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.

> >

> > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania

> that I

> > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to

do

> so.

> >

> > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the

> REPRESENTATIVES that

> > Santorum " credited " for supporting the CAA in the House?

> The " transcript "

> > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely

the " Shadow "

> guy didn't

> > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME

> because I couldn't

> > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them.

> >

> > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this

> > " contentious " issue, but, I would really like to know what

contact

> and support Santorum

> > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all,

THESE

> are the people

> > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

>

>

>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

[Guest guest]

What bill did Santorum sponsor in which " Congress mandates 'research to

specifically look into the possible link between vaccines/thimerosal

and autism... " ? I know of none.

As I explained in my post the CAA does not fit this description.

Separately from Henry's point about funding, with which I agree, my

point is that Sen. Santorum's lip service for research into the

thimerosal/vaccine connection to autism is empty after-the-fact

rhetoric designed to placate Imus, who is hammering everyone on the

thimerosal and other issues.

If, and I say IF, Santorum truly believed such thimerosal research

should be mandated, he was unsuccessful in getting such a mandate into

the CAA. The colloquy, while appearing to promote such research, may

actually accomplish the opposite, by endorsing the IOM and supporting

such research only if precursor biomedical research overcomes the

presumption against a thimerosal/autism link established by the 2004

IOM report's conclusions about the results of epidemiological studies.

This is very clear from a reading of the entire colloquy.

Santorum can say anything that he wishes now. My point is not to

condemn or praise Santorum, but to critique his statements. Santorum

cannot claim he successfully promoted legislation that calls for

research into the thimerosal/autism link. This was not accomplished no

matter how much after-the-fact spin and rhetoric he or others employ.

As I said before, just to avoid any unncecessary controversy - all this

discussion is a separate issue from whether or not one would still

support CAA. But we must understand what CAA does and does not do, and

not permit a politician to claim political capital for issues he has

not successfully championed. We should also be very clear what specific

legislation does and does not do. It is misleading to claim that CAA

" mandates " or even promotes research into the thimerosal link. It may

do other things but this it does not do - it could have done this but

the powers in Congress refused to include the language that would have

accomplished this goal, and the colloquy insufficiently closed the gap.

On Oct 7, 2006, at 1:01 PM, seekingtruth4miles wrote:

> So...you're saying that Senator Santorum receives funding from

> pharma and as such, his main motivation is to " please them " ....

>

> ly, I don't see how they could be " pleased " after watching him

> (on National TV )talk about his sponsorship of a bill in

> which " Congress mandates " research to specifically look into the

> possible link between vaccines/thimerosal and autism....

>

> Definitely NOT good PR, in my opinion...

>

> Kelli

>

>

> > >

> > > Dear Kelli,

> > >

> > > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such

> > division within

> > > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have

> > trouble spelling

> > > " thimerosal " , but, my cynical nature rises when the word

> > completely disappears,

> > > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.

> > >

> > > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania

> > that I

> > > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to

> do

> > so.

> > >

> > > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the

> > REPRESENTATIVES that

> > > Santorum " credited " for supporting the CAA in the House?

> > The " transcript "

> > > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely

> the " Shadow "

> > guy didn't

> > > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME

> > because I couldn't

> > > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them.

> > >

> > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this

> > > " contentious " issue, but, I would really like to know what

> contact

> > and support Santorum

> > > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all,

> THESE

> > are the people

> > > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Krakow

> > Attorney At Law

> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > (516) 354-3300

> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> >

>

>

J. Krakow

Attorney At Law

2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

Lake Success, New York 11042

(516) 354-3300

(646) 349-1771 (fax)

(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]

Your " take " ....and as you know, there are many individuals who would

disagree with your " read " on the colloquy....

And I'm working on my response to you now....

Kelli

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kelli,

> > > >

> > > > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such

> > > division within

> > > > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have

> > > trouble spelling

> > > > " thimerosal " , but, my cynical nature rises when the word

> > > completely disappears,

> > > > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.

> > > >

> > > > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania

> > > that I

> > > > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to

> > do

> > > so.

> > > >

> > > > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the

> > > REPRESENTATIVES that

> > > > Santorum " credited " for supporting the CAA in the House?

> > > The " transcript "

> > > > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely

> > the " Shadow "

> > > guy didn't

> > > > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME

> > > because I couldn't

> > > > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them.

> > > >

> > > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this

> > > > " contentious " issue, but, I would really like to know what

> > contact

> > > and support Santorum

> > > > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all,

> > THESE

> > > are the people

> > > > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > J. Krakow

> > > Attorney At Law

> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > (516) 354-3300

> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > >

> >

> >

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

[Guest guest]

Your post is evidence of why you have that healthy attitude and my post is evidence of why I pass time as the cynic.

We appear to simply have different thought processes.

We both have our roles.

Re: SANTORUM "EDITED" TRANSCRIPT

So...you're saying that Senator Santorum receives funding from pharma and as such, his main motivation is to "please them"....ly, I don't see how they could be "pleased" after watching him (on National TV )talk about his sponsorship of a bill in which "Congress mandates" research to specifically look into the possible link between vaccines/thimerosal and autism....Definitely NOT good PR, in my opinion...Kelli > >> > Dear Kelli,> > > > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such > division within > > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have > trouble spelling > > "thimerosal", but, my cynical nature rises when the word > completely disappears, > > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.> > > > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania > that I > > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to do > so.> > > > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the > REPRESENTATIVES that > > Santorum "credited" for supporting the CAA in the House? > The "transcript" > > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely the "Shadow" > guy didn't > > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME > because I couldn't > > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them. > > > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this > > "contentious" issue, but, I would really like to know what contact > and support Santorum > > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all, THESE > are the people > > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?> > > > Thanks.> >> > > > J. Krakow> Attorney At Law> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> Lake Success, New York 11042> (516) 354-3300 > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)>

[Guest guest]

I like you Henry...

> > >

> > > Dear Kelli,

> > >

> > > I agree, thimerosal is THEEE word that has caused such

> > division within

> > > our autism community. Why is that I wonder? I still have

> > trouble spelling

> > > " thimerosal " , but, my cynical nature rises when the word

> > completely disappears,

> > > whether in a Senate colliquy or an Imus transcript.

> > >

> > > Trust me, I LIKE SANTORUM!!!!! I have family in Pennslyvania

> > that I

> > > will advise them to VOTE for HIM if given the opportunity to

> do

> > so.

> > >

> > > In any event, what happened to the NAMES of the

> > REPRESENTATIVES that

> > > Santorum " credited " for supporting the CAA in the House?

> > The " transcript "

> > > deleted any reference to them. Why is that? Surely

> the " Shadow "

> > guy didn't

> > > have trouble spelling ALL their names? I couldn't spell SOME

> > because I couldn't

> > > UNDERSTAND them when Santorum SAID them.

> > >

> > > Please, I do not want to get between you and Lenny on this

> > > " contentious " issue, but, I would really like to know what

> contact

> > and support Santorum

> > > has received from Burton, Weldon and Maloney? After all,

> THESE

> > are the people

> > > I thought would be most prominent in supporting the CAA?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Krakow

> > Attorney At Law

> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > (516) 354-3300

> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kelli,

It is not Bob's " take " that the CAA is not " a bill in which 'Congress

mandates' research to specifically look into the possible link between

vaccines/thimerosal and autism.... "

It isn't.

Lenny

[Guest guest]

Disagree.

MANDATE: To authorize or decree (a particular action), as by the

enactment of law.

The CAA bill MANDATES the following:

( Research. -- A center of excellence established under this

paragraph SHALL conduct basic and clinical research of a broad array

of environmental factors that may have a possible role in autism

spectrum disorder.

The report language, along with the colloquy, accompany the bill and

are considered a part of the legislative package.

Jim Moody (a DC attorney who is very knowledgeable about the law)

has told me that " Supreme Court " cases have specifically looked into

issues where " reports and colloquy " have played a major role in

determining a case....in essence, they are considered an important

part of the bill because they specifically " detail " the motivations

and/or intent in regards to the formation of the bill.

The CAA colloquy mentions, specifically, the need for research to

examine " potential links between vaccines, vaccine components and

autism spectrum disorder " ...

One " vaccine component " is defined in the preceding paragraph by

Senator Santorum: " However, in addressing the key issues within

S843, some have raised concerns regarding a potential link between

vaccines, vaccine components (such as thimerosal) and autism. Mr.

Chairman, can you clarify your position on this issue? "

Those are the FACTS.

And so in answer to Bob's question: What bill did Santorum sponsor

in which " Congress mandates research to specifically look into the

possible link between vaccines/thimerosal and autism… " ? I know of

none.

The CAA, Bob.

Another FACT: Senator Santorum went on National TV and specifically

talked about autism, vaccines and thimerosal.

Discussions involving his possible MOTIVATIONS: " lip

service " , " after-the-fact-spin " , " too little -- too late " , " empty

after-the-fact rhetoric " , etc are OPINIONS (belly buttons) and

should not be confused with the FACTS.

And, as we all know, everyone has an opinion. And when it comes to

this particular issue, the opinions are wide and varied. You have

yours, I have mine.

As such, I personally don't want to spend any more time " debating "

the issue. I need to focus my efforts on continuing to help move the

bill forward and plan for upcoming meetings.

Kelli

PS….I will make one more post regarding the colloquy in relation to

the IOM and then I'm personally done.

>

>

> Kelli,

> It is not Bob's " take " that the CAA is not " a bill in

which 'Congress

> mandates' research to specifically look into the possible link

between

> vaccines/thimerosal and autism.... "

>

> It isn't.

>

> Lenny

>