Not Understanding

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

Here are some links to comments about

the Fombonne Study. They have both been posted here in the past.

http://www.safeminds.org/

http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/pres_releases/Fombonne-6-30-06.pdf

http://www.mercury-freedrugs.org/

Thimerosal Causes Mercury Poisoning X - Link

Between Thimerosal and Pervasive Developmental Disorders [Draft Rebuttal to Fombonne

et al.'s 'Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada:

Prevalence and Links With Immunizations'] (23 August 2006; 102 pages). "

They present an argument much better than

I. But while reading it myself so many things were left out and did not seem

accurate. I read both sides and surmised the Fombonne study to be severely lacking.

See for yourself. -

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of scd7131

Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006

12:20 AM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Not

understanding

Suzanne,

Here is a very good example of the type of study I am referring to

that refutes evidence of any link between autism and either MMR or

thimerosal.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139#R42

This study was done outside the U.S.,

and had nothing to do with

CDC. It was done in Canada,

where universal health care allows for

much more accurate collection of data due to uniformity of

methodology (as opposed to the widely-cited California studies which

relied upon data collected haphazardly at the school district

level). The study distinguishes between MMR and thimerosal. It

specifically addresses the Geier studies, as well as EOH and the

Kennedy article in Rolling Stone magazine. I fail to see any

inherent bias in the study, or any reason to believe that the author

is attempting to perpetrate a lie or prolong a fraud upon the

world's population to benefit a few drug-manufacturing executives.

This study represents, to me, the type of information that any open-

minded person would have to consider in determining their position

on this issue.

I am not going so far as to say this study is perfect or totally

accurate. I do not buy it " hook, line, and sinker " . I feel

strongly that much, much more research needs to be done. I

desperately want to know what causes autism to occur.

At the same time, I feel no need whatsoever to blame anyone for my

son's condition. I also remain hesitant to introduce any treatments

which could, in the long term, prove to be harmful in ways I cannot

presently anticipate.

Having said that, I respect and admire the responses I have received

on this message board. I hope many of you will apply a critical eye

to this study, as you have done with others, and help me to learn

more about this issue. I have learned a lot today, which is what I

set out to do, and you all are responsible for that. I am really

pleased with the graciousness with which my " devil's advocate "

position has been met.

Steve

>

> You are still are not citing specific studies that you say are

leading you

> to your beliefs. What studies,. Steve? Suzanne

>

> _____

>

> From: EOHarm

[mailto:EOHarm ]

On

Behalf Of

> Steve Dionne

> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 6:18 PM

> EOHarm

> Subject: RE: Not understanding

>

>

>

> Thanks for the response, Barb (I know my thanks are getting

repetitive, but

> I do want to offer appreciation to everyone who has chosen to

answer my

> questions).

>

>

>

> Your response includes certain issues which are principle reasons

for my

> skepticism mercury being a causal agent.

>

> First, the similarities between mercury poisoning and autism

symptoms. This

> is one of the first things I looked at when I began to explore

this issue,

> and I found that exactly the opposite is true - there is very

little

> similarity between mercury poisoning symptoms and autism

symptoms. It seems

> to me that there are a few crossover symptoms, but not very many.

I have,

> in my own mind, chalked this up to one being a medical diagnosis

and one

> being a diagnosis of a psychological disorder, and that the

psychiatric

> disorder does not " demand " a look at other co-existing physical

symptoms,

> which are therefore left off the list of symptoms of autism. I am

sure many

> of you have thought this through more carefully - can anyone help

me to

> understand that aspect?

>

> Secondly, your claim that the " studies " presented by the other

side are

> tremendously flawed gives me pause. That is precisely what the

members of

> the other side of the debate are claiming. I see flawed studies

and some

> good studies in support of both sides, so I tend to throw out that

argument

> until more information comes to light that can be deemed

reliable. Not that

> all studies should be ignored, its just that this seems to me to

be more of

> an emotionally-driven response than a reliable argument in favor

of one

> position or another.

>

> I also am seeing in your response the claim that " mercury out

takes them

> (the symptoms) away. " This is obviously the case with some kids,

but just

> as obviously not the case with others. Is there consideration of

the

> possibility that some but not all autism is caused by toxicity?

Variable

> chelation results would seem to argue in favor of this position.

>

> The last thing you mentioned is the " huge invesments " behind the

vaccine and

> filling people. Well, the opposing argument would be that the

Doctors and

> other medical practitioners who are prescribing some of the

biomedical

> therapies I have been studying also have financial gain at stake.

Perhaps

> on a smaller scale, but I actually think it is easier for an

individual or

> small group of individuals to perpetrate a fraud than it is for a

> combination of huge corporations and governmental agencies to

perpetrate a

> fraud. When you think of the number of variables that would

prevent huge

> oprganizations like those from keeping " secrets " , it is almost

beyond the

> realm of imagining that such a grand-scale crime could be

intentionally

> committed. Additionally, trial lawyers stand to gain tremendously

from

> findings that would indicate that vaccine manufacturers are

responsible for

> knowingly damaging many thousands of children. In my estimation,

it would

> be the single largest financial " win " in the history of the

world's legal

> system. And trial lawyers are notoriously aggressive about

throwing money

> into research that will support their positions. So the argument

of " taint "

> or " bias " works against both sides of the debate equally and

favors neither.

>

>

> I am sorry for my long-winded monologue here, its just that your

response to

> my inquiry has really touched on the " magic buttons " that result

in my

> still-present skepticism. Let me reiterate that I do have an open

mind on

> this, and I welcome anyone to respond to some of the issues I am

bringing

> up. I know these are probably unwelcome topics that have been

rehashed

> within this group over the past 18 months or so, but I would

welcome any

> efforts to dispel my skepticism. Again, I am not here to argue,

as I would

> never attempt to foist my opinions on any member of this group. I

am

> appreciative of being able to participate in the discussion, and

respect the

> responses I have received regardless of whether I accept them or

not.

>

> Steve

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Not understanding

>

> Because of a number of things--

>

>

>

> The " studies " presented by the other side are flawed almost to

the

point of

> being ridiculous. Those of us who have been around for six years

have

> watched one of them get changed until the strong correlations

between autism

> and thimerosal conveniently disappeared.

>

>

>

> The symptoms of autism are identical to the symptoms of mercury

poisoning.

> After you are on these groups long enough you hear variations of

the same

> story over and over and over again.

>

>

>

> Because mercury in causes these symptoms and mercury out takes

them away.

> Pretty basic stuff.

>

>

>

> Because if we were talking about lead poisoning from paint we

wouldn't be

> having these ridiculous arguments. People would say, " Of course,

they ate

> lead, they are showing symptoms of lead poisoning, and when you

chelate the

> stuff out, the symptoms go away. " Duh!

>

>

>

> However, since we are talking about vaccines and fillings, two

items that

> have HUGE amount of investments behind them, both emotional and

financial,

> we have to protect the status quo.

>

>

>

> I didn't believe the autism/mercury connection for months, until

everything

> that my son had ever experienced kept going back to mercury.

Mercury was

> the only answer that made sense after twenty years of looking for

answers.

> I did NOT want this to be true!

>

>

>

> Barb

>

> Not understanding

>

>

>

> Hi all -

> I am a new member of this discussion group. My son is 5 and is

> autistic. My purpose when joining the group was to expand my

> knowledge base so I can determine the best course of treatments

for

> my son's disability.

> I am hoping someone can help me to understand what I am perceiving

to

> be a foundational belief of this group - that Autism is caused by

> environmental toxicity. Most specifically, by thimerosal in

> vaccines. I know that Kirby's book presented compelling

> evidence that this is the case. I also know that numerous studies

> have been published that have failed to show the link between

> vaccinations and the onset of Autism. So I am trying to understand

> why a large group of clearly intelligent people have arrived at

the

> decision that this is a fact, and that their choice of treatment

> options stems from this fact.

> Please understand that I am not trying to cause an argument or to

> question the validity of anyone's beliefs on this issue - I

certainly

> do not know what causes autism and have no special information

which

> would lead me to believe that anyone's opinion is right or wrong.

It

> seems to me that there is some conflicting science. So what, then,

> is causing this group to fall on one side of the debate instead of

> the other?

>

[Guest guest]

Steve, see my post #38518. It shows clearly, complete with references,

how mercury fits into the picture.

[Guest guest]

A couple of points in response, Dona.

First, I am very sorry to hear about your son's ongoing struggles,

and about your husband. You definitely have your fair share of

burdens, and I wish you the best.

But before you jump to conclusions about me and mine, let me explain

a little bit.

I do have another son - perfectly healthy. Don't think for a minute

that the effect of his brother's autism is lost on me. At the same

time, I see him rising to the occasion, and it makes me tremendously

proud. He is fascinating to watch - the perfect little therapist,

always directing , demanding eye contact, not allowing

questions to go unanswered. My heart swells to think about it. My

NT son will be fine, as will my autistic son.

Regarding my autistic son, I should explain that he is improving

dramatically with the behavioral modification therapies we

selected. We do ABA, SLT, OT, and therapeutic horsemanship.

Probably most or all of the parents in this group have done the same

when their children were at similar ages as mine is. It so happens,

for reasons unknown to anyone, that it is working very well with our

kid. He is partially mainstreaming this year, and we hope for

inclusion next year at school. He reads voraciously, is full of

energy, is about the finest looking child I have ever laid eyes on -

almost angelic - he has not an aggressive bone in his body, and he

is probably the happiest little guy I have ever met. Before you

think to question his level of autism, he tested out for 12 out of

12 criteria for the DSM-IV autism diagnosis on two separate

occasions at a leading Children's Hospital. He has, completely on

his own, learned to work our computer (accessing sites such as Nick,

Jr. and Disney Preschool online) and has mastered just about every

game they have available on said sites, without us having to teach

him. He has never had episodes of diarrhea or constipation outside

the realm of a typical flu or cold. The only unusual comorbid

condition we have observed is two separate episodes of shingles,

which is very unusual for a child his age. All in all, my son really

does not fit the description of the type of autistic child who most

likely would benefit from treatments related to mercury excretion.

And without those treatments, he is improving wonderfully.

About a year ago, I was referred to a Doctor in Northern California

(I am in Southern California) who was working with the daughter of a

business client of mine. This was my first introduction to a Dan!

doctor, and I have found out since that she is relatively prominent

in that doctrine. I sent her an email requesting a brief discussion

about her recommended treatments. I was highly enthusiastic about

the prospects of trying some biomedical approaches to my son's

condition. I was specifically inquiring as to whether she could

explain to me and offer services on HBOT. At that time, my son was

struggling a lot, had no speech, had no eye contact, had not even

acknowledged that his brother existed. We were willing to try

anything that seemed safe and reasonable. The response I got was an

auto-response with three attachments. One was a patient sign-up

form, one was a credit card authorization form for billing, and one

was a 4 page description of recommended treatments. No other " human "

response, just some forms.

My wife and I decided to call in order to discuss - I left messages

saying I just wanted a brief discussion prior to committing to the

flight up to Norcal with our son, who hates crowded airplanes. No

response. I left another message, and finally got a call back from

a secretary who stated that, once we send in the credit card

authorization form, we can then talk to Dr. X.

In the meantime, I continued to do my research, and happened across

some information that one of this this particular Doctor's patients

has been hospitalized for severe overdose of a certain supplement.

Simultaneously, we inquired at our ABA provider's office about HBOT,

and were immediately referred to a local parent who had tried it

with their child at a facility in Orange County. Their son, in the

third session, went into a grand mal seizure. He has since had

recurring seizures. The parents, with the advice of their doctors,

feel strongly that there is a possibility that the HBOT may have

triggered the epilepsy. Not known for sure, but quite a

coincedence.

So before you accuse me of " only considering whether the new baby

will be safe from autism " , you might want to consider that I too

have other children. And also keep in mind that the statement you

made - " Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate

lies is

> simply evil. " can cut both ways. If you put yourself in my shoes

during those experiences I just summarized, I think you would find

yourself questioning whether following " anecdotal " advice from other

parents is such a good idea. Despite those episodes, I have still

continued to pursue the truth in an effort to help my son as much as

possible, but I will not put him at risk of harm until I understand

more about these tests and treatments you are husbanding.

Regards,

Steve

>

> Steve,

>

> Talk and debate are important but instead of debating whether

these immune

> system mess-ups cause autism or not perhaps, in terms of your own

son you and

> your wife might consider running some of the important tests on

him to see just

> where he stands. More information might help you make your

decisions about

> how to care for your new baby when he/she arrives more

thoughtfully.

>

> For instance, if you do a challenge test for environmental toxins

even

> finding such toxins will not prove that they have either 'caused'

or contributed to

> your son's autism but you would have a more educated reason for

deciding to or

> not to consider a different or a delayed vaccination schedule for

your new

> baby or perhaps none at all.

>

> If your son has some of these unkind poisons in his body, the

questions are

> no longer hypothetical. Then you might want to consider whether

to do

> something about it or not. Other testing can show how well or not

a child's body

> deals with these toxins and a thoughtful doctor can suggest

supplements that may

> help his immune system work better. Gut issues are common in

these

> children... food allergies as well as toxins factor into our genes

to make things more

> complicated and there is more. Unless you check out these things

for your own

> child there isn't a whole lot of point in just arguing about

whether it

> matters.

>

> My low functioning autistic son is 44... one of the lucky 1 in

10,000

> children. His immune has been challenged to hell and back by the

same things that

> beleaguer all the other autistic children and adults. We made

long distance

> moves looking for a diagnosis and then for services... the system

was pitiful

> then as it is now... we've worked diligently to try to right the

wrongs of what

> happened to that beautiful baby and toddler of long ago. How many

years do you

> think it will take to recover my son's basic health... if EVER?

I'm 72

> years old... my husband died two years ago. How long do you think

I can stay the

> course?

>

> Right now you seem to be only considering whether or not the new

baby will be

> safe from autism... Many of us have normal or very bright

children too.

> Have you considered what life is like for these siblings of

autistic children?

> Do you have any notion of the stress under which they live their

life... do you

> know they are often taunted and shunned too? Has it occurred to

you that you

> can't make it right for them either?

>

> I think before you philosophize much more you could best help your

own family

> by taking advantage of what is 'known', even if it is ONLY the

anecdotal

> stories of parents... they are the most honest stories you will

ever be

> privileged to hear.

>

> You started this thread by saying you don't understand... I think

you were

> right. I think more personal homework will lead to better

understanding. This

> is a very complex mess.

> None of us knows or sees all of the parts... we each are trying to

understand

> BETTER. Many of us cringe every time we hear of another child who

has been

> diagnosed. Damaging children because of either ignorance or

deliberate lies is

> simply evil.

>

> Dona

>

[Guest guest]

> I am a stubborn guy and not easily

shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing

through my own research.<

I was so trusting of the medical establishment that I ignored my sister-in-law's

warning before Tristan was born. She sent me a chapter out of a book by a

doctor now deceased that was written in the 80s. At the time the book was

written there were just a few routine vaccinations but he said the DPT was

dangerous and those coming down the pike would be also. I did have concern

about the numbers of vaccines given at one visit, and the Ped assured me that

the " research " showed they worked better and were safer given that way (!) He

was the doctor whom I trusted so Tristan got even the vaccines that weren't

mandated in Texas at the time, Hep B, Chicken Pox and the others. He regressed

at 23 months after be given the MMR and Chicken Pox. The doctor made us out to

be overly worried for nothing, he is a boy, boys are later bloomers, etc ad

naueum. At age 3 Tristan was evaluated by a Neurologist, I took his diagnosis

to the Ped. It was PDD/ NOS Autistic Type and Encephalitis. The Ped then said

we would have to find another doctor because he didn't know anything about

autism. Anyway, if your research took you to the conventional AMA, FDA, CDC,

etc " studies " then I believe you were totally misled. What do they have to gain

and lose? They will lose a lot if it is proven that the sacred cow vaccine

program damaged tens of thousands of children, and who they will have to

compensate and help bring back to health. They will protect themselves rather

than admit the truth. Whereas we parents and grandparents only have to gain our

kids health and well being by turning to those outside of the conventional

medical establishments who offer true help to our children.

C.

[Guest guest]

Point taken. Thanks for the insight. My stubborn belief in

the " goodness " of people makes it hard for me to believe that our

government agencies would knowingly perpetrate this situation on the

general public, but a " groupthink " mentality that takes hold over

these types of organizations can certainly override that, especially

when it comes to self-preservation. History is full of examples.

Steve

>

> > I am a stubborn guy and not easily

> shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing

> through my own research.<

>

> I was so trusting of the medical establishment that I ignored my

sister-in-law's warning before Tristan was born. She sent me a

chapter out of a book by a doctor now deceased that was written in

the 80s. At the time the book was written there were just a few

routine vaccinations but he said the DPT was dangerous and those

coming down the pike would be also. I did have concern about the

numbers of vaccines given at one visit, and the Ped assured me that

the " research " showed they worked better and were safer given that

way (!) He was the doctor whom I trusted so Tristan got even the

vaccines that weren't mandated in Texas at the time, Hep B, Chicken

Pox and the others. He regressed at 23 months after be given the

MMR and Chicken Pox. The doctor made us out to be overly worried

for nothing, he is a boy, boys are later bloomers, etc ad naueum.

At age 3 Tristan was evaluated by a Neurologist, I took his

diagnosis to the Ped. It was PDD/ NOS Autistic Type and

Encephalitis. The Ped then said we would have to find another

doctor because he didn't know anything about autism. Anyway, if

your research took you to the conventional AMA, FDA, CDC,

etc " studies " then I believe you were totally misled. What do they

have to gain and lose? They will lose a lot if it is proven that

the sacred cow vaccine program damaged tens of thousands of

children, and who they will have to compensate and help bring back

to health. They will protect themselves rather than admit the

truth. Whereas we parents and grandparents only have to gain our

kids health and well being by turning to those outside of the

conventional medical establishments who offer true help to our

children.

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much, Dona. I wish you and yours the best as well.

Steve

>

>

> Steve,

>

> A clarification here... when I wrote " Damaging children because of

either

> ignorance or deliberate lies is simply evil, " I wasn't referring

to you and your

> wife. I was referring back to the pharmaceutical industry who

started this

> knowing that thimerosal could cause meningitis back in 1929(even

before I was

> born), and the medical professionals and politicians who have

allowed this to

> continue for so many, many years. In rereading I see that I

didn't make that

> clear. Sorry about that... I don't think any parent should be

dealing with

> the many serious health issues that have followed.

>

> There are other doctors who can run tests and many of us prefer

selecting

> treatments according to test results rather than select a

treatment without them.

>

> Also, I'm glad that ABA has been available to you and has worked

so very well

> for your son. When my son was six we happened upon experimental

behavior

> analysis and I was trained to be the 'therapist' in an experiment

at a university

> medical center.. to allow a parent to participate was heresy in

the late

> 1960s in a psychiatric setting but without that training we would

never have been

> able to keep our son at home at all. I spent many years urging

parents to try

> it but that fell on deaf ears, too.

>

> I wish your family the best possible outcome...

>

> Dona

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Your son sounds wonderful . He sounds so much like mine. He is doing the same therapies as your son and we are doing some biomed. We have a great holistic health and wellness doctor who knows the DAN! protocol and follows Dr. Buttar's protocol with TD-DMPS. I am so sorry you had such a bad experience with this particular DAN! doctor. I would have made the same decision as you in that situation. Like you, I research and research until I'm satisfied with the next step. Every supplement my son is taking, I had tests done to make sure he needs it. What works for one child doesn't necessarily work for another.

Keep up the great work you are doing with your children.

Vivian

Re: Not Understanding

A couple of points in response, Dona.First, I am very sorry to hear about your son's ongoing struggles, and about your husband. You definitely have your fair share of burdens, and I wish you the best.But before you jump to conclusions about me and mine, let me explain a little bit. I do have another son - perfectly healthy. Don't think for a minute that the effect of his brother's autism is lost on me. At the same time, I see him rising to the occasion, and it makes me tremendously proud. He is fascinating to watch - the perfect little therapist, always directing , demanding eye contact, not allowing questions to go unanswered. My heart swells to think about it. My NT son will be fine, as will my autistic son.Regarding my autistic son, I should explain that he is improving dramatically with the behavioral modification therapies we selected. We do ABA, SLT, OT, and therapeutic horsemanship. Probably most or all of the parents in this group have done the same when their children were at similar ages as mine is. It so happens, for reasons unknown to anyone, that it is working very well with our kid. He is partially mainstreaming this year, and we hope for inclusion next year at school. He reads voraciously, is full of energy, is about the finest looking child I have ever laid eyes on - almost angelic - he has not an aggressive bone in his body, and he is probably the happiest little guy I have ever met. Before you think to question his level of autism, he tested out for 12 out of 12 criteria for the DSM-IV autism diagnosis on two separate occasions at a leading Children's Hospital. He has, completely on his own, learned to work our computer (accessing sites such as Nick, Jr. and Disney Preschool online) and has mastered just about every game they have available on said sites, without us having to teach him. He has never had episodes of diarrhea or constipation outside the realm of a typical flu or cold. The only unusual comorbid condition we have observed is two separate episodes of shingles, which is very unusual for a child his age. All in all, my son really does not fit the description of the type of autistic child who most likely would benefit from treatments related to mercury excretion. And without those treatments, he is improving wonderfully.About a year ago, I was referred to a Doctor in Northern California (I am in Southern California) who was working with the daughter of a business client of mine. This was my first introduction to a Dan! doctor, and I have found out since that she is relatively prominent in that doctrine. I sent her an email requesting a brief discussion about her recommended treatments. I was highly enthusiastic about the prospects of trying some biomedical approaches to my son's condition. I was specifically inquiring as to whether she could explain to me and offer services on HBOT. At that time, my son was struggling a lot, had no speech, had no eye contact, had not even acknowledged that his brother existed. We were willing to try anything that seemed safe and reasonable. The response I got was an auto-response with three attachments. One was a patient sign-up form, one was a credit card authorization form for billing, and one was a 4 page description of recommended treatments. No other "human" response, just some forms.My wife and I decided to call in order to discuss - I left messages saying I just wanted a brief discussion prior to committing to the flight up to Norcal with our son, who hates crowded airplanes. No response. I left another message, and finally got a call back from a secretary who stated that, once we send in the credit card authorization form, we can then talk to Dr. X. In the meantime, I continued to do my research, and happened across some information that one of this this particular Doctor's patients has been hospitalized for severe overdose of a certain supplement. Simultaneously, we inquired at our ABA provider's office about HBOT, and were immediately referred to a local parent who had tried it with their child at a facility in Orange County. Their son, in the third session, went into a grand mal seizure. He has since had recurring seizures. The parents, with the advice of their doctors, feel strongly that there is a possibility that the HBOT may have triggered the epilepsy. Not known for sure, but quite a coincedence. So before you accuse me of "only considering whether the new baby will be safe from autism", you might want to consider that I too have other children. And also keep in mind that the statement you made - "Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil." can cut both ways. If you put yourself in my shoes during those experiences I just summarized, I think you would find yourself questioning whether following "anecdotal" advice from other parents is such a good idea. Despite those episodes, I have still continued to pursue the truth in an effort to help my son as much as possible, but I will not put him at risk of harm until I understand more about these tests and treatments you are husbanding.Regards,Steve>> Steve,> > Talk and debate are important but instead of debating whether these immune > system mess-ups cause autism or not perhaps, in terms of your own son you and > your wife might consider running some of the important tests on him to see just > where he stands. More information might help you make your decisions about > how to care for your new baby when he/she arrives more thoughtfully.> > For instance, if you do a challenge test for environmental toxins even > finding such toxins will not prove that they have either 'caused' or contributed to > your son's autism but you would have a more educated reason for deciding to or > not to consider a different or a delayed vaccination schedule for your new > baby or perhaps none at all.> > If your son has some of these unkind poisons in his body, the questions are > no longer hypothetical. Then you might want to consider whether to do > something about it or not. Other testing can show how well or not a child's body > deals with these toxins and a thoughtful doctor can suggest supplements that may > help his immune system work better. Gut issues are common in these > children... food allergies as well as toxins factor into our genes to make things more > complicated and there is more. Unless you check out these things for your own > child there isn't a whole lot of point in just arguing about whether it > matters. > > My low functioning autistic son is 44... one of the lucky 1 in 10,000 > children. His immune has been challenged to hell and back by the same things that > beleaguer all the other autistic children and adults. We made long distance > moves looking for a diagnosis and then for services... the system was pitiful > then as it is now... we've worked diligently to try to right the wrongs of what > happened to that beautiful baby and toddler of long ago. How many years do you > think it will take to recover my son's basic health... if EVER? I'm 72 > years old... my husband died two years ago. How long do you think I can stay the > course? > > Right now you seem to be only considering whether or not the new baby will be > safe from autism... Many of us have normal or very bright children too. > Have you considered what life is like for these siblings of autistic children? > Do you have any notion of the stress under which they live their life... do you > know they are often taunted and shunned too? Has it occurred to you that you > can't make it right for them either?> > I think before you philosophize much more you could best help your own family > by taking advantage of what is 'known', even if it is ONLY the anecdotal > stories of parents... they are the most honest stories you will ever be > privileged to hear. > > You started this thread by saying you don't understand... I think you were > right. I think more personal homework will lead to better understanding. This > is a very complex mess.> None of us knows or sees all of the parts... we each are trying to understand > BETTER. Many of us cringe every time we hear of another child who has been > diagnosed. Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil.> > Dona>