Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi Steve, Here are some links to comments about the Fombonne Study. They have both been posted here in the past. http://www.safeminds.org/ http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/pres_releases/Fombonne-6-30-06.pdf http://www.mercury-freedrugs.org/ Thimerosal Causes Mercury Poisoning X - Link Between Thimerosal and Pervasive Developmental Disorders [Draft Rebuttal to Fombonne et al.'s 'Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links With Immunizations'] (23 August 2006; 102 pages). " They present an argument much better than I. But while reading it myself so many things were left out and did not seem accurate. I read both sides and surmised the Fombonne study to be severely lacking. See for yourself. - From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of scd7131 Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:20 AM EOHarm Subject: Re: Not understanding Suzanne, Here is a very good example of the type of study I am referring to that refutes evidence of any link between autism and either MMR or thimerosal. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139#R42 This study was done outside the U.S., and had nothing to do with CDC. It was done in Canada, where universal health care allows for much more accurate collection of data due to uniformity of methodology (as opposed to the widely-cited California studies which relied upon data collected haphazardly at the school district level). The study distinguishes between MMR and thimerosal. It specifically addresses the Geier studies, as well as EOH and the Kennedy article in Rolling Stone magazine. I fail to see any inherent bias in the study, or any reason to believe that the author is attempting to perpetrate a lie or prolong a fraud upon the world's population to benefit a few drug-manufacturing executives. This study represents, to me, the type of information that any open- minded person would have to consider in determining their position on this issue. I am not going so far as to say this study is perfect or totally accurate. I do not buy it " hook, line, and sinker " . I feel strongly that much, much more research needs to be done. I desperately want to know what causes autism to occur. At the same time, I feel no need whatsoever to blame anyone for my son's condition. I also remain hesitant to introduce any treatments which could, in the long term, prove to be harmful in ways I cannot presently anticipate. Having said that, I respect and admire the responses I have received on this message board. I hope many of you will apply a critical eye to this study, as you have done with others, and help me to learn more about this issue. I have learned a lot today, which is what I set out to do, and you all are responsible for that. I am really pleased with the graciousness with which my " devil's advocate " position has been met. Steve > > You are still are not citing specific studies that you say are leading you > to your beliefs. What studies,. Steve? Suzanne > > _____ > > From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of > Steve Dionne > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 6:18 PM > EOHarm > Subject: RE: Not understanding > > > > Thanks for the response, Barb (I know my thanks are getting repetitive, but > I do want to offer appreciation to everyone who has chosen to answer my > questions). > > > > Your response includes certain issues which are principle reasons for my > skepticism mercury being a causal agent. > > First, the similarities between mercury poisoning and autism symptoms. This > is one of the first things I looked at when I began to explore this issue, > and I found that exactly the opposite is true - there is very little > similarity between mercury poisoning symptoms and autism symptoms. It seems > to me that there are a few crossover symptoms, but not very many. I have, > in my own mind, chalked this up to one being a medical diagnosis and one > being a diagnosis of a psychological disorder, and that the psychiatric > disorder does not " demand " a look at other co-existing physical symptoms, > which are therefore left off the list of symptoms of autism. I am sure many > of you have thought this through more carefully - can anyone help me to > understand that aspect? > > Secondly, your claim that the " studies " presented by the other side are > tremendously flawed gives me pause. That is precisely what the members of > the other side of the debate are claiming. I see flawed studies and some > good studies in support of both sides, so I tend to throw out that argument > until more information comes to light that can be deemed reliable. Not that > all studies should be ignored, its just that this seems to me to be more of > an emotionally-driven response than a reliable argument in favor of one > position or another. > > I also am seeing in your response the claim that " mercury out takes them > (the symptoms) away. " This is obviously the case with some kids, but just > as obviously not the case with others. Is there consideration of the > possibility that some but not all autism is caused by toxicity? Variable > chelation results would seem to argue in favor of this position. > > The last thing you mentioned is the " huge invesments " behind the vaccine and > filling people. Well, the opposing argument would be that the Doctors and > other medical practitioners who are prescribing some of the biomedical > therapies I have been studying also have financial gain at stake. Perhaps > on a smaller scale, but I actually think it is easier for an individual or > small group of individuals to perpetrate a fraud than it is for a > combination of huge corporations and governmental agencies to perpetrate a > fraud. When you think of the number of variables that would prevent huge > oprganizations like those from keeping " secrets " , it is almost beyond the > realm of imagining that such a grand-scale crime could be intentionally > committed. Additionally, trial lawyers stand to gain tremendously from > findings that would indicate that vaccine manufacturers are responsible for > knowingly damaging many thousands of children. In my estimation, it would > be the single largest financial " win " in the history of the world's legal > system. And trial lawyers are notoriously aggressive about throwing money > into research that will support their positions. So the argument of " taint " > or " bias " works against both sides of the debate equally and favors neither. > > > I am sorry for my long-winded monologue here, its just that your response to > my inquiry has really touched on the " magic buttons " that result in my > still-present skepticism. Let me reiterate that I do have an open mind on > this, and I welcome anyone to respond to some of the issues I am bringing > up. I know these are probably unwelcome topics that have been rehashed > within this group over the past 18 months or so, but I would welcome any > efforts to dispel my skepticism. Again, I am not here to argue, as I would > never attempt to foist my opinions on any member of this group. I am > appreciative of being able to participate in the discussion, and respect the > responses I have received regardless of whether I accept them or not. > > Steve > > > > > > Re: Not understanding > > Because of a number of things-- > > > > The " studies " presented by the other side are flawed almost to the point of > being ridiculous. Those of us who have been around for six years have > watched one of them get changed until the strong correlations between autism > and thimerosal conveniently disappeared. > > > > The symptoms of autism are identical to the symptoms of mercury poisoning. > After you are on these groups long enough you hear variations of the same > story over and over and over again. > > > > Because mercury in causes these symptoms and mercury out takes them away. > Pretty basic stuff. > > > > Because if we were talking about lead poisoning from paint we wouldn't be > having these ridiculous arguments. People would say, " Of course, they ate > lead, they are showing symptoms of lead poisoning, and when you chelate the > stuff out, the symptoms go away. " Duh! > > > > However, since we are talking about vaccines and fillings, two items that > have HUGE amount of investments behind them, both emotional and financial, > we have to protect the status quo. > > > > I didn't believe the autism/mercury connection for months, until everything > that my son had ever experienced kept going back to mercury. Mercury was > the only answer that made sense after twenty years of looking for answers. > I did NOT want this to be true! > > > > Barb > > Not understanding > > > > Hi all - > I am a new member of this discussion group. My son is 5 and is > autistic. My purpose when joining the group was to expand my > knowledge base so I can determine the best course of treatments for > my son's disability. > I am hoping someone can help me to understand what I am perceiving to > be a foundational belief of this group - that Autism is caused by > environmental toxicity. Most specifically, by thimerosal in > vaccines. I know that Kirby's book presented compelling > evidence that this is the case. I also know that numerous studies > have been published that have failed to show the link between > vaccinations and the onset of Autism. So I am trying to understand > why a large group of clearly intelligent people have arrived at the > decision that this is a fact, and that their choice of treatment > options stems from this fact. > Please understand that I am not trying to cause an argument or to > question the validity of anyone's beliefs on this issue - I certainly > do not know what causes autism and have no special information which > would lead me to believe that anyone's opinion is right or wrong. It > seems to me that there is some conflicting science. So what, then, > is causing this group to fall on one side of the debate instead of > the other? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Steve, see my post #38518. It shows clearly, complete with references, how mercury fits into the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 A couple of points in response, Dona. First, I am very sorry to hear about your son's ongoing struggles, and about your husband. You definitely have your fair share of burdens, and I wish you the best. But before you jump to conclusions about me and mine, let me explain a little bit. I do have another son - perfectly healthy. Don't think for a minute that the effect of his brother's autism is lost on me. At the same time, I see him rising to the occasion, and it makes me tremendously proud. He is fascinating to watch - the perfect little therapist, always directing , demanding eye contact, not allowing questions to go unanswered. My heart swells to think about it. My NT son will be fine, as will my autistic son. Regarding my autistic son, I should explain that he is improving dramatically with the behavioral modification therapies we selected. We do ABA, SLT, OT, and therapeutic horsemanship. Probably most or all of the parents in this group have done the same when their children were at similar ages as mine is. It so happens, for reasons unknown to anyone, that it is working very well with our kid. He is partially mainstreaming this year, and we hope for inclusion next year at school. He reads voraciously, is full of energy, is about the finest looking child I have ever laid eyes on - almost angelic - he has not an aggressive bone in his body, and he is probably the happiest little guy I have ever met. Before you think to question his level of autism, he tested out for 12 out of 12 criteria for the DSM-IV autism diagnosis on two separate occasions at a leading Children's Hospital. He has, completely on his own, learned to work our computer (accessing sites such as Nick, Jr. and Disney Preschool online) and has mastered just about every game they have available on said sites, without us having to teach him. He has never had episodes of diarrhea or constipation outside the realm of a typical flu or cold. The only unusual comorbid condition we have observed is two separate episodes of shingles, which is very unusual for a child his age. All in all, my son really does not fit the description of the type of autistic child who most likely would benefit from treatments related to mercury excretion. And without those treatments, he is improving wonderfully. About a year ago, I was referred to a Doctor in Northern California (I am in Southern California) who was working with the daughter of a business client of mine. This was my first introduction to a Dan! doctor, and I have found out since that she is relatively prominent in that doctrine. I sent her an email requesting a brief discussion about her recommended treatments. I was highly enthusiastic about the prospects of trying some biomedical approaches to my son's condition. I was specifically inquiring as to whether she could explain to me and offer services on HBOT. At that time, my son was struggling a lot, had no speech, had no eye contact, had not even acknowledged that his brother existed. We were willing to try anything that seemed safe and reasonable. The response I got was an auto-response with three attachments. One was a patient sign-up form, one was a credit card authorization form for billing, and one was a 4 page description of recommended treatments. No other " human " response, just some forms. My wife and I decided to call in order to discuss - I left messages saying I just wanted a brief discussion prior to committing to the flight up to Norcal with our son, who hates crowded airplanes. No response. I left another message, and finally got a call back from a secretary who stated that, once we send in the credit card authorization form, we can then talk to Dr. X. In the meantime, I continued to do my research, and happened across some information that one of this this particular Doctor's patients has been hospitalized for severe overdose of a certain supplement. Simultaneously, we inquired at our ABA provider's office about HBOT, and were immediately referred to a local parent who had tried it with their child at a facility in Orange County. Their son, in the third session, went into a grand mal seizure. He has since had recurring seizures. The parents, with the advice of their doctors, feel strongly that there is a possibility that the HBOT may have triggered the epilepsy. Not known for sure, but quite a coincedence. So before you accuse me of " only considering whether the new baby will be safe from autism " , you might want to consider that I too have other children. And also keep in mind that the statement you made - " Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil. " can cut both ways. If you put yourself in my shoes during those experiences I just summarized, I think you would find yourself questioning whether following " anecdotal " advice from other parents is such a good idea. Despite those episodes, I have still continued to pursue the truth in an effort to help my son as much as possible, but I will not put him at risk of harm until I understand more about these tests and treatments you are husbanding. Regards, Steve > > Steve, > > Talk and debate are important but instead of debating whether these immune > system mess-ups cause autism or not perhaps, in terms of your own son you and > your wife might consider running some of the important tests on him to see just > where he stands. More information might help you make your decisions about > how to care for your new baby when he/she arrives more thoughtfully. > > For instance, if you do a challenge test for environmental toxins even > finding such toxins will not prove that they have either 'caused' or contributed to > your son's autism but you would have a more educated reason for deciding to or > not to consider a different or a delayed vaccination schedule for your new > baby or perhaps none at all. > > If your son has some of these unkind poisons in his body, the questions are > no longer hypothetical. Then you might want to consider whether to do > something about it or not. Other testing can show how well or not a child's body > deals with these toxins and a thoughtful doctor can suggest supplements that may > help his immune system work better. Gut issues are common in these > children... food allergies as well as toxins factor into our genes to make things more > complicated and there is more. Unless you check out these things for your own > child there isn't a whole lot of point in just arguing about whether it > matters. > > My low functioning autistic son is 44... one of the lucky 1 in 10,000 > children. His immune has been challenged to hell and back by the same things that > beleaguer all the other autistic children and adults. We made long distance > moves looking for a diagnosis and then for services... the system was pitiful > then as it is now... we've worked diligently to try to right the wrongs of what > happened to that beautiful baby and toddler of long ago. How many years do you > think it will take to recover my son's basic health... if EVER? I'm 72 > years old... my husband died two years ago. How long do you think I can stay the > course? > > Right now you seem to be only considering whether or not the new baby will be > safe from autism... Many of us have normal or very bright children too. > Have you considered what life is like for these siblings of autistic children? > Do you have any notion of the stress under which they live their life... do you > know they are often taunted and shunned too? Has it occurred to you that you > can't make it right for them either? > > I think before you philosophize much more you could best help your own family > by taking advantage of what is 'known', even if it is ONLY the anecdotal > stories of parents... they are the most honest stories you will ever be > privileged to hear. > > You started this thread by saying you don't understand... I think you were > right. I think more personal homework will lead to better understanding. This > is a very complex mess. > None of us knows or sees all of the parts... we each are trying to understand > BETTER. Many of us cringe every time we hear of another child who has been > diagnosed. Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil. > > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 > I am a stubborn guy and not easily shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing through my own research.< I was so trusting of the medical establishment that I ignored my sister-in-law's warning before Tristan was born. She sent me a chapter out of a book by a doctor now deceased that was written in the 80s. At the time the book was written there were just a few routine vaccinations but he said the DPT was dangerous and those coming down the pike would be also. I did have concern about the numbers of vaccines given at one visit, and the Ped assured me that the " research " showed they worked better and were safer given that way (!) He was the doctor whom I trusted so Tristan got even the vaccines that weren't mandated in Texas at the time, Hep B, Chicken Pox and the others. He regressed at 23 months after be given the MMR and Chicken Pox. The doctor made us out to be overly worried for nothing, he is a boy, boys are later bloomers, etc ad naueum. At age 3 Tristan was evaluated by a Neurologist, I took his diagnosis to the Ped. It was PDD/ NOS Autistic Type and Encephalitis. The Ped then said we would have to find another doctor because he didn't know anything about autism. Anyway, if your research took you to the conventional AMA, FDA, CDC, etc " studies " then I believe you were totally misled. What do they have to gain and lose? They will lose a lot if it is proven that the sacred cow vaccine program damaged tens of thousands of children, and who they will have to compensate and help bring back to health. They will protect themselves rather than admit the truth. Whereas we parents and grandparents only have to gain our kids health and well being by turning to those outside of the conventional medical establishments who offer true help to our children. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Point taken. Thanks for the insight. My stubborn belief in the " goodness " of people makes it hard for me to believe that our government agencies would knowingly perpetrate this situation on the general public, but a " groupthink " mentality that takes hold over these types of organizations can certainly override that, especially when it comes to self-preservation. History is full of examples. Steve > > > I am a stubborn guy and not easily > shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing > through my own research.< > > I was so trusting of the medical establishment that I ignored my sister-in-law's warning before Tristan was born. She sent me a chapter out of a book by a doctor now deceased that was written in the 80s. At the time the book was written there were just a few routine vaccinations but he said the DPT was dangerous and those coming down the pike would be also. I did have concern about the numbers of vaccines given at one visit, and the Ped assured me that the " research " showed they worked better and were safer given that way (!) He was the doctor whom I trusted so Tristan got even the vaccines that weren't mandated in Texas at the time, Hep B, Chicken Pox and the others. He regressed at 23 months after be given the MMR and Chicken Pox. The doctor made us out to be overly worried for nothing, he is a boy, boys are later bloomers, etc ad naueum. At age 3 Tristan was evaluated by a Neurologist, I took his diagnosis to the Ped. It was PDD/ NOS Autistic Type and Encephalitis. The Ped then said we would have to find another doctor because he didn't know anything about autism. Anyway, if your research took you to the conventional AMA, FDA, CDC, etc " studies " then I believe you were totally misled. What do they have to gain and lose? They will lose a lot if it is proven that the sacred cow vaccine program damaged tens of thousands of children, and who they will have to compensate and help bring back to health. They will protect themselves rather than admit the truth. Whereas we parents and grandparents only have to gain our kids health and well being by turning to those outside of the conventional medical establishments who offer true help to our children. > > C. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Thanks very much, Dona. I wish you and yours the best as well. Steve > > > Steve, > > A clarification here... when I wrote " Damaging children because of either > ignorance or deliberate lies is simply evil, " I wasn't referring to you and your > wife. I was referring back to the pharmaceutical industry who started this > knowing that thimerosal could cause meningitis back in 1929(even before I was > born), and the medical professionals and politicians who have allowed this to > continue for so many, many years. In rereading I see that I didn't make that > clear. Sorry about that... I don't think any parent should be dealing with > the many serious health issues that have followed. > > There are other doctors who can run tests and many of us prefer selecting > treatments according to test results rather than select a treatment without them. > > Also, I'm glad that ABA has been available to you and has worked so very well > for your son. When my son was six we happened upon experimental behavior > analysis and I was trained to be the 'therapist' in an experiment at a university > medical center.. to allow a parent to participate was heresy in the late > 1960s in a psychiatric setting but without that training we would never have been > able to keep our son at home at all. I spent many years urging parents to try > it but that fell on deaf ears, too. > > I wish your family the best possible outcome... > > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Steve, Your son sounds wonderful . He sounds so much like mine. He is doing the same therapies as your son and we are doing some biomed. We have a great holistic health and wellness doctor who knows the DAN! protocol and follows Dr. Buttar's protocol with TD-DMPS. I am so sorry you had such a bad experience with this particular DAN! doctor. I would have made the same decision as you in that situation. Like you, I research and research until I'm satisfied with the next step. Every supplement my son is taking, I had tests done to make sure he needs it. What works for one child doesn't necessarily work for another. Keep up the great work you are doing with your children. Vivian Re: Not Understanding A couple of points in response, Dona.First, I am very sorry to hear about your son's ongoing struggles, and about your husband. You definitely have your fair share of burdens, and I wish you the best.But before you jump to conclusions about me and mine, let me explain a little bit. I do have another son - perfectly healthy. Don't think for a minute that the effect of his brother's autism is lost on me. At the same time, I see him rising to the occasion, and it makes me tremendously proud. He is fascinating to watch - the perfect little therapist, always directing , demanding eye contact, not allowing questions to go unanswered. My heart swells to think about it. My NT son will be fine, as will my autistic son.Regarding my autistic son, I should explain that he is improving dramatically with the behavioral modification therapies we selected. We do ABA, SLT, OT, and therapeutic horsemanship. Probably most or all of the parents in this group have done the same when their children were at similar ages as mine is. It so happens, for reasons unknown to anyone, that it is working very well with our kid. He is partially mainstreaming this year, and we hope for inclusion next year at school. He reads voraciously, is full of energy, is about the finest looking child I have ever laid eyes on - almost angelic - he has not an aggressive bone in his body, and he is probably the happiest little guy I have ever met. Before you think to question his level of autism, he tested out for 12 out of 12 criteria for the DSM-IV autism diagnosis on two separate occasions at a leading Children's Hospital. He has, completely on his own, learned to work our computer (accessing sites such as Nick, Jr. and Disney Preschool online) and has mastered just about every game they have available on said sites, without us having to teach him. He has never had episodes of diarrhea or constipation outside the realm of a typical flu or cold. The only unusual comorbid condition we have observed is two separate episodes of shingles, which is very unusual for a child his age. All in all, my son really does not fit the description of the type of autistic child who most likely would benefit from treatments related to mercury excretion. And without those treatments, he is improving wonderfully.About a year ago, I was referred to a Doctor in Northern California (I am in Southern California) who was working with the daughter of a business client of mine. This was my first introduction to a Dan! doctor, and I have found out since that she is relatively prominent in that doctrine. I sent her an email requesting a brief discussion about her recommended treatments. I was highly enthusiastic about the prospects of trying some biomedical approaches to my son's condition. I was specifically inquiring as to whether she could explain to me and offer services on HBOT. At that time, my son was struggling a lot, had no speech, had no eye contact, had not even acknowledged that his brother existed. We were willing to try anything that seemed safe and reasonable. The response I got was an auto-response with three attachments. One was a patient sign-up form, one was a credit card authorization form for billing, and one was a 4 page description of recommended treatments. No other "human" response, just some forms.My wife and I decided to call in order to discuss - I left messages saying I just wanted a brief discussion prior to committing to the flight up to Norcal with our son, who hates crowded airplanes. No response. I left another message, and finally got a call back from a secretary who stated that, once we send in the credit card authorization form, we can then talk to Dr. X. In the meantime, I continued to do my research, and happened across some information that one of this this particular Doctor's patients has been hospitalized for severe overdose of a certain supplement. Simultaneously, we inquired at our ABA provider's office about HBOT, and were immediately referred to a local parent who had tried it with their child at a facility in Orange County. Their son, in the third session, went into a grand mal seizure. He has since had recurring seizures. The parents, with the advice of their doctors, feel strongly that there is a possibility that the HBOT may have triggered the epilepsy. Not known for sure, but quite a coincedence. So before you accuse me of "only considering whether the new baby will be safe from autism", you might want to consider that I too have other children. And also keep in mind that the statement you made - "Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil." can cut both ways. If you put yourself in my shoes during those experiences I just summarized, I think you would find yourself questioning whether following "anecdotal" advice from other parents is such a good idea. Despite those episodes, I have still continued to pursue the truth in an effort to help my son as much as possible, but I will not put him at risk of harm until I understand more about these tests and treatments you are husbanding.Regards,Steve>> Steve,> > Talk and debate are important but instead of debating whether these immune > system mess-ups cause autism or not perhaps, in terms of your own son you and > your wife might consider running some of the important tests on him to see just > where he stands. More information might help you make your decisions about > how to care for your new baby when he/she arrives more thoughtfully.> > For instance, if you do a challenge test for environmental toxins even > finding such toxins will not prove that they have either 'caused' or contributed to > your son's autism but you would have a more educated reason for deciding to or > not to consider a different or a delayed vaccination schedule for your new > baby or perhaps none at all.> > If your son has some of these unkind poisons in his body, the questions are > no longer hypothetical. Then you might want to consider whether to do > something about it or not. Other testing can show how well or not a child's body > deals with these toxins and a thoughtful doctor can suggest supplements that may > help his immune system work better. Gut issues are common in these > children... food allergies as well as toxins factor into our genes to make things more > complicated and there is more. Unless you check out these things for your own > child there isn't a whole lot of point in just arguing about whether it > matters. > > My low functioning autistic son is 44... one of the lucky 1 in 10,000 > children. His immune has been challenged to hell and back by the same things that > beleaguer all the other autistic children and adults. We made long distance > moves looking for a diagnosis and then for services... the system was pitiful > then as it is now... we've worked diligently to try to right the wrongs of what > happened to that beautiful baby and toddler of long ago. How many years do you > think it will take to recover my son's basic health... if EVER? I'm 72 > years old... my husband died two years ago. How long do you think I can stay the > course? > > Right now you seem to be only considering whether or not the new baby will be > safe from autism... Many of us have normal or very bright children too. > Have you considered what life is like for these siblings of autistic children? > Do you have any notion of the stress under which they live their life... do you > know they are often taunted and shunned too? Has it occurred to you that you > can't make it right for them either?> > I think before you philosophize much more you could best help your own family > by taking advantage of what is 'known', even if it is ONLY the anecdotal > stories of parents... they are the most honest stories you will ever be > privileged to hear. > > You started this thread by saying you don't understand... I think you were > right. I think more personal homework will lead to better understanding. This > is a very complex mess.> None of us knows or sees all of the parts... we each are trying to understand > BETTER. Many of us cringe every time we hear of another child who has been > diagnosed. Damaging children because of either ignorance or deliberate lies is > simply evil.> > Dona> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.