Re: Not Understanding - Summary of finding

October 29, 2006

>>I am greatly encouraged that EOH members have somehow managed to

change the

> mind of a self-described " stubborn guy " who is " not easily shaken

from

> beliefs " he " spent the last two years developing " . Jeepers,

only " two days " and

> you went from disbelieving to believing>>

I too had a victory last week. One of my co-workers is expecting his

first child soon. Somehow the conversation led to vaccines. He said

he and his wife had a lot of questions about vaccines. I told him

what I had learned and my experiences. He was still very skeptical. I

just happened to have two articles with me I was studying - Mercury

on the Mind and one by Bernard Windham(I can't remeber the title). I

gave those to him as well as several web site links. I said, " do some

research and make up your own mind " . I just received an email from

him stating that he and his wife had at least decided to follow

the " safer " vaccine schedule. Reaching out one person at a time.

:

>

> Steve explains his " summary " thus:

>

> " I am a stubborn guy and not easily

> shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing

> through my own research. As such, I am still not absolutely

certain

> that the link will ever be proven. "

>

> Yes. Ask me the same question two days ago, I'd have said no.

> Now? Yes, I do believe so.

>

> I am greatly encouraged that EOH members have somehow managed to

change the

> mind of a self-described " stubborn guy " who is " not easily shaken

from

> beliefs " he " spent the last two years developing " . Jeepers,

only " two days " and

> you went from disbelieving to believing:

>

> " injecting children/infants/ " injecting

children/infants/<WBR>unborn with

> mercur

>

> That is remarkable progress in such a short period of time.

However, it

> does cause me to ask what " research " you had developed over the

past two years

> that had given you any reason to believe with any " certainty " that

injecting

> babies with mercury was harmless?

>

> " I feel strongly

> that lawsuits such as this do far more harm than good, and if

change

> is necessary there are far better ways to accomplish it than by

> lining the pockets of the trial lawyers.

>

> Unfortunately, parents/children have no choice but to pursue

litigation that

> would allow them to legally establish, by an overwhelming

preponderance of

> scientific evidence, that childhood vaccines have contributed to

this

> generation's serious childhood development problems. Yes,

the " pockets of trial

> lawyers " will be " lined " should they prevail in a court of law,

but, in all

> honesty, the alternative simply allows the " pockets of vaccine

manufacturers " to

> remain full.

>

> I suspect our political establishment will continue to

portray " trial

> lawyers " as " evil " , while at the very same time enacting

legislation meant solely

> to protect vaccine manufacturers from any liability for the " evil "

they may

> cause to children. In any event, parents/children

deserve " justice " , and they

> have every right to demand the " justice system " provide it.

>

> Thanks again to everyone, and I hope I can continue to contribute,

> hopefully, to the information shared in this group.

>

> Your contribution will no doubt offer many opportunities for

information to

> be shared by this group. That is a good thing. Thanks, again.

>

October 30, 2006

Just one point in response:

The question asked of me was if I believed the injecting children,

etc with mercury could cause mercury poisoning. I answered yes.

I was not asked if I believe it caused autism. Had I been asked

that question, my response would have been " I don't know for sure,

but I don't think so. " My discussion here has convinced me enough

that I will withold following proscribed vacination protocol for our

new baby, but I am still not convinced. As I stated in an earlier

post - there is very, very little in common between mercury

poisoning and autism. I also explained one explanation I have

specualted on as to why this is the case. But that is a big one for

me - why would the descriptions of the two be so totally different

if they were really the same thing? Bleeding gums? Skin rashes?

Memory loss? Irregular heartbeat? Feeble pulse? Dizziness?

Swollen lymph nodes? Subnormal temperature? Shallow breathing?

Loss of weight? Fatigue? Joint pain? None of these are consistent

with my son's autism. And I have only mentioned an handful. I

acknowledge there are alternative explanations for the lack of

congruence, and I offered one in an earlier post. Here's another:

These symptoms describe an acute condition, but the mercury in

vaccines promotes a more developmentally-oriented, chronic condition

that presents much differently. This may be, but I have no way of

currently knowing that. Therefore, the lack of similarity in

diagnoses is plenty of information to cast the whole mercury/autism

hypothesis into the " questionable " category until new information

comes to light. For me anyway.

Steve

>

> Steve explains his " summary " thus:

>

> " I am a stubborn guy and not easily

> shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing

> through my own research. As such, I am still not absolutely

certain

> that the link will ever be proven. "

>

> Yes. Ask me the same question two days ago, I'd have said no.

> Now? Yes, I do believe so.

>

> I am greatly encouraged that EOH members have somehow managed to

change the

> mind of a self-described " stubborn guy " who is " not easily shaken

from

> beliefs " he " spent the last two years developing " . Jeepers,

only " two days " and

> you went from disbelieving to believing:

>

> " injecting children/infants/ " injecting

children/infants/<WBR>unborn with

> mercur

>

> That is remarkable progress in such a short period of time.

However, it

> does cause me to ask what " research " you had developed over the

past two years

> that had given you any reason to believe with any " certainty "

that injecting

> babies with mercury was harmless?

>

> " I feel strongly

> that lawsuits such as this do far more harm than good, and if

change

> is necessary there are far better ways to accomplish it than by

> lining the pockets of the trial lawyers.

>

> Unfortunately, parents/children have no choice but to pursue

litigation that

> would allow them to legally establish, by an overwhelming

preponderance of

> scientific evidence, that childhood vaccines have contributed to

this

> generation's serious childhood development problems. Yes,

the " pockets of trial

> lawyers " will be " lined " should they prevail in a court of law,

but, in all

> honesty, the alternative simply allows the " pockets of vaccine

manufacturers " to

> remain full.

>

> I suspect our political establishment will continue to

portray " trial

> lawyers " as " evil " , while at the very same time enacting

legislation meant solely

> to protect vaccine manufacturers from any liability for

the " evil " they may

> cause to children. In any event, parents/children

deserve " justice " , and they

> have every right to demand the " justice system " provide it.

>

> Thanks again to everyone, and I hope I can continue to

contribute,

> hopefully, to the information shared in this group.

>

> Your contribution will no doubt offer many opportunities for

information to

> be shared by this group. That is a good thing. Thanks, again.

>

October 30, 2006

Heterogeneity is exactly what one would expect from a toxicology (er, sorry, I meant vaccine) experiment.

Re: Re: Not Understanding - Summary of finding

Steve, I have been half following this thread but I would like to make a point that may have been made by others, but nevertheless is important.Although my son has been dx with 'autism" his "autism" is very different from what other children with "autism" exhibit.Perhaps one of the hallmarks of autism is its heterogeneity and the differences among the children labeled with "autism." That is what happens when a disease is defined by observed behaviors or collections of symptoms. Some symptoms are more emphatic in certain children than others. They may have different diseases but they loosely fit into the very non-specific DSM-iV criteria - which tells us nothing about disease criteria.So when you say "there is very, very little in common between mercury poisoning and autism" the comparison you are attempting to make has very little clarity. What is "autism"?This can get very complicated and involves language and labeling more than the actual disease processes. My experience is that there is a great deal in common between mercury poisoning, which itself manifests itself in many disparate ways - check the literature on acrodynia and the multiple manifestations of that disease - including cognitive dysfunction similar to what is commonly understood as "autism". Mercury poisoning is notable in the way it affects almost every biological process in the body, and every organ, and affects different children in different ways, due to their particular vulnerabilities.So I suggest we are making a false comparison here and trying to compare diseases that are ill-defined and about which we know comparatively little.I find I understand my son's health problems better if I completely ignore "autism" and focus more on what we have found in him that is dysregulated. Dysregulated intestinal function, colitis, disregulated pituitary function, metabolic dysfunction, adrenal dysfunction, hormonal dysfunction, etc. The concept of "autism" is of little help in addressing these problems. But as we address these problems my son improves. And as we move forward there is something that better explains his problems - i.e. heavy metal toxicity, than "autism", which explained almost nothing, but gave a comfortable diagnostic name to something that no one understands.If you approach the problem with the foregoing concepts in mind it matters little whether "mercury poisoning" is similar to "autism." What matters is whether "mercury poisoning" helps explain the medical problems in our children, and whether it helps guide our treatment options in ways that help our kids.BobOn Oct 30, 2006, at 12:13 AM, scd7131 wrote:there is very, very little in common between mercury poisoning and autism

October 30, 2006

Steve,

My son had joint pain for his entire life until 6 months into chelating. He typed out, "My joints don't throb any more." That was his normal. Even though he had been typing things out for us since he was ten, he never mentioned his joints hurting. Not until the pain went away and he discovered that life didn't have to be this way did he tell us.

He thanks us over and over for chelating him because he is in so much less PAIN.

Barb

Re: Not Understanding - Summary of finding

Just one point in response:The question asked of me was if I believed the injecting children, etc with mercury could cause mercury poisoning. I answered yes. I was not asked if I believe it caused autism. Had I been asked that question, my response would have been "I don't know for sure, but I don't think so." My discussion here has convinced me enough that I will withold following proscribed vacination protocol for our new baby, but I am still not convinced. As I stated in an earlier post - there is very, very little in common between mercury poisoning and autism. I also explained one explanation I have specualted on as to why this is the case. But that is a big one for me - why would the descriptions of the two be so totally different if they were really the same thing? Bleeding gums? Skin rashes? Memory loss? Irregular heartbeat? Feeble pulse? Dizziness? Swollen lymph nodes? Subnormal temperature? Shallow breathing? Loss of weight? Fatigue? Joint pain? None of these are consistent with my son's autism. And I have only mentioned an handful. I acknowledge there are alternative explanations for the lack of congruence, and I offered one in an earlier post. Here's another: These symptoms describe an acute condition, but the mercury in vaccines promotes a more developmentally-oriented, chronic condition that presents much differently. This may be, but I have no way of currently knowing that. Therefore, the lack of similarity in diagnoses is plenty of information to cast the whole mercury/autism hypothesis into the "questionable" category until new information comes to light. For me anyway.Steve>> Steve explains his "summary" thus:> > "I am a stubborn guy and not easily > shaken from beliefs that I spent the last two years developing > through my own research. As such, I am still not absolutely certain > that the link will ever be proven."> > > Yes. Ask me the same question two days ago, I'd have said no. > Now? Yes, I do believe so.> > > I am greatly encouraged that EOH members have somehow managed to change the > mind of a self-described "stubborn guy" who is "not easily shaken from > beliefs" he "spent the last two years developing". Jeepers, only "two days" and > you went from disbelieving to believing:> > "injecting children/infants/"injecting children/infants/<WBR>unborn with > mercur > > That is remarkable progress in such a short period of time. However, it > does cause me to ask what "research" you had developed over the past two years > that had given you any reason to believe with any "certainty" that injecting > babies with mercury was harmless? > > > "I feel strongly > that lawsuits such as this do far more harm than good, and if change > is necessary there are far better ways to accomplish it than by > lining the pockets of the trial lawyers.> > Unfortunately, parents/children have no choice but to pursue litigation that > would allow them to legally establish, by an overwhelming preponderance of > scientific evidence, that childhood vaccines have contributed to this > generation's serious childhood development problems. Yes, the "pockets of trial > lawyers" will be "lined" should they prevail in a court of law, but, in all > honesty, the alternative simply allows the "pockets of vaccine manufacturers" to > remain full. > > I suspect our political establishment will continue to portray "trial > lawyers" as "evil", while at the very same time enacting legislation meant solely > to protect vaccine manufacturers from any liability for the "evil" they may > cause to children. In any event, parents/children deserve "justice", and they > have every right to demand the "justice system" provide it.> > > Thanks again to everyone, and I hope I can continue to contribute, > hopefully, to the information shared in this group.> > Your contribution will no doubt offer many opportunities for information to > be shared by this group. That is a good thing. Thanks, again.>

October 30, 2006

Your child may not resemble another child with "autism" because it is an umbrella term for many different symptoms. Some children have many, some only a few. It depends where the mercury was stored. Gut--Gluten and casein issues, acid reflux, "Crohn's". Neurological system--tingling of hands and feet, CP, difficulty with coordination, sensation etc. Pituitary--bipolar disorder, depression, lots of hormonal imbalances. Third cranial nerve--eye tracking issues, focusing problems, convergence. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just think about where the mercury went and follow the problems.

Barb

Re: Re: Not Understanding - Summary of finding

Steve, I have been half following this thread but I would like to make a point that may have been made by others, but nevertheless is important.Although my son has been dx with 'autism" his "autism" is very different from what other children with "autism" exhibit.Perhaps one of the hallmarks of autism is its heterogeneity and the differences among the children labeled with "autism." That is what happens when a disease is defined by observed behaviors or collections of symptoms. Some symptoms are more emphatic in certain children than others. They may have different diseases but they loosely fit into the very non-specific DSM-iV criteria - which tells us nothing about disease criteria.So when you say "there is very, very little in common between mercury poisoning and autism" the comparison you are attempting to make has very little clarity. What is "autism"?This can get very complicated and involves language and labeling more than the actual disease processes. My experience is that there is a great deal in common between mercury poisoning, which itself manifests itself in many disparate ways - check the literature on acrodynia and the multiple manifestations of that disease - including cognitive dysfunction similar to what is commonly understood as "autism". Mercury poisoning is notable in the way it affects almost every biological process in the body, and every organ, and affects different children in different ways, due to their particular vulnerabilities.So I suggest we are making a false comparison here and trying to compare diseases that are ill-defined and about which we know comparatively little.I find I understand my son's health problems better if I completely ignore "autism" and focus more on what we have found in him that is dysregulated. Dysregulated intestinal function, colitis, disregulated pituitary function, metabolic dysfunction, adrenal dysfunction, hormonal dysfunction, etc. The concept of "autism" is of little help in addressing these problems. But as we address these problems my son improves. And as we move forward there is something that better explains his problems - i.e. heavy metal toxicity, than "autism", which explained almost nothing, but gave a comfortable diagnostic name to something that no one understands.If you approach the problem with the foregoing concepts in mind it matters little whether "mercury poisoning" is similar to "autism." What matters is whether "mercury poisoning" helps explain the medical problems in our children, and whether it helps guide our treatment options in ways that help our kids.BobOn Oct 30, 2006, at 12:13 AM, scd7131 wrote:there is very, very little in common between mercury poisoning and autism

October 30, 2006

Steve,

Maybe you

are only looking at Methyl Mercury poisoning which presents differently the

ethyl mercury. Not to mention that most poisoning have gone through the

bodies own defenses to change the outcome. Thimerosal is directly

injected into the bloodstream causing a different effect. Mark Blaxill

gave a great presentation on an environmental poisoning by ethyl mercury in Japan.

Not the Minamata’s disease, which was methyl poisoning, but in another

area. I can’t remember the name. All mercury poisonings

present differently but have many similar symptoms. In “Evidence of

Harm” there was story of a Man in a hospital injected with thimerosal by

mistake and he began hand flapping, having difficulty socializing and loss of

speech. Take care,

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of scd7131

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006

12:13 AM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Not

Understanding - Summary of finding