Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

[Guest guest]

, As a tokenof my appreciation for all you have done-you can come to my Chanukah party instead. Maurine Medlin <angelamedlin@...> wrote:  I just now noticed this.... It breaks my heart to see the

MAM, No Mercury, & A-CHAMP logo, which have been on the CAA website (top right on hm page) from the beginning has DISAPPEARED!! Hmmmm. I guess that's what happens when you stand up for your mercury poisoned child not your autism "needs to be celebrated" child. I guess this means we have been removed from the CAN, ASA, AS, Bill

Frist Christmas party list. Moms Against Mercury, co-founder -----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of J. KrakowSent: Friday, August 04, 2006 6:05 PMEOHarm Subject: Re:

combatautism.org Been live for about six months, maybe more.On Aug 4, 2006, at 5:51 PM, Barry wrote:> http://www.combatautism.org/>> Don't know when this site went live. KB>> J. KrakowAttorney At Law2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125Lake Success, New York 11042(516) 354-3300(646) 349-1771 (fax)(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.

Try it free.

[Guest guest]

I have been a special ed teacher in a school where 80% of the 170

students are ASD for seven years now. My four year old daughter was

dx'ed 2 years ago. I saw her regression happen right in front of

me. I am working on my letter/invitation to these assholes who would

like to " celebrate autism. " I dare them to spend an hour in my

classroom. Then I would like to get their reaction on video when I

ask them what they would like to " celebrate " ? Spend another billion

dollars to make themselves look like they care, and in fact only help

themselves, not our children!

Only us parents and teachers are allowed to celebrate our childrens

accomplishments because obsviously they don't have a clue about the

hardships of autism. How dare they! I am truly outraged!

I say lets all crash the Frist party and bring our children along!

We can say, " we are here to celebrate! "

Had to vent ~ Thanks for all the work you do ~ I hope one day we will

be able celebrate.

~ Siobhan

>

> > http://www.combatautism.org/

> >

> > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> >

> >

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

> --

> Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

>

[Guest guest]

I have been a special ed teacher in a school where 80% of the 170

students are ASD for seven years now. My four year old daughter was

dx'ed 2 years ago. I saw her regression happen right in front of

me. I am working on my letter/invitation to these assholes who would

like to " celebrate autism. " I dare them to spend an hour in my

classroom. Then I would like to get their reaction on video when I

ask them what they would like to " celebrate " ? Spend another billion

dollars to make themselves look like they care, and in fact only help

themselves, not our children!

Only us parents and teachers are allowed to celebrate our childrens

accomplishments because obsviously they don't have a clue about the

hardships of autism. How dare they! I am truly outraged!

I say lets all crash the Frist party and bring our children along!

We can say, " we are here to celebrate! "

Had to vent ~ Thanks for all the work you do ~ I hope one day we will

be able celebrate.

~ Siobhan

>

> > http://www.combatautism.org/

> >

> > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> >

> >

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

> --

> Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

>

[Guest guest]

Yep, these are the ONLY groups who they mention, but we all know the

truth about who really made it possible.

Autism One

Autism Society of America

Autism Speaks

COSAC

Cure Autism Now

Dan Marino Foundation

Doug Flutie, Jr. Foundation

First Signs

Generation Rescue

National Autism Association

OAR

Southwest Autism Research & Resource Center

SafeMinds

Talk About Curing Autism

TalkAutism

The Deirdre Imus Environmental Center for Pediatric Oncology

Unlocking Autism

US Autism and Asperger's Association

>

> > http://www.combatautism.org/

> >

> > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> >

> >

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

[Guest guest]

uh...didn't these groups pull their support of CAA?

>

> > http://www.combatautism.org/

> >

> > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> >

> >

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

[Guest guest]

Yup, they did and when the parents are put on very long waiting

lists for the 5 sanctioned autism treatment centers that the NIH is

spending it's portion of the 1 billion (now 900 million)on, only to

find out that the treatment that these centers will be providing

does not provide ALL forms of treatment, including chelation, diet,

etc., then they will realize that these 3 groups were the ones who

really listen to the parents, want to " cure autism now " and not

waste time and money " celebrating " autism.

Sally

> >

> > > http://www.combatautism.org/

> > >

> > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > >

> > >

> > J. Krakow

> > Attorney At Law

> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > (516) 354-3300

> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm new to the list...who really made it possible?

> >

> > > http://www.combatautism.org/

> > >

> > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > >

> > >

> > J. Krakow

> > Attorney At Law

> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > (516) 354-3300

> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The exact history is something I will leave up to Krakow,

, Theresa, Kerbob, Holly or as they all seem to be much

better at explaining it than I. Also if you do a search of messages

you will find the discussion about the " altered and revised " CAA

that was passed, not the original one that ALL the groups worked on.

Once it was revised to remove the vaccine language, then the groups

that mentioned, i.e. MAM, A-champ, had no other choice but to

pull their sponsorship of the bill.

If you go to www.achamp.org you will be able to have it explained as

well. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Sally

> > >

> > > > http://www.combatautism.org/

> > > >

> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > >

> > > >

> > > J. Krakow

> > > Attorney At Law

> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > (516) 354-3300

> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill

passed??? A worthless piece of legislation that will never ever help any of

our kids??? Well, it wasn’t me.

I wouldn’t want my name on this

disaster. We still have time to kill this bill and come back to the table next

year stronger and say “hey, we will not settle for bad science and no

oversight. We want the answers.” Our kids deserve a real bill that will

really help them. CAA does not do that. It’s a crap bill and it needs to

die a fiery death to show those who supported it that our kids deserve real

research, real funding, a real bill. Soggy potato chips are not better than no

potato chips.

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of mercerdad13

Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006

11:40 PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re:

combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

I'm new to the list...who really made it possible?

> >

> > > http://www.combatautism.org/

> > >

> > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > >

> > >

> > J. Krakow

> > Attorney At Law

> > 2001 Marcus Avenue,

Suite N125

> > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > (516) 354-3300

> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What's the basis for your comments, Holly? If you could articulate

yourself without using vulgar language, maybe someone would listen

to you. Have you ever successfully passed a bill? Probably not.

Stop throwing stones at the very people who trying to make a

difference for every child with autism. Put your energies into

something productive...criticizing your brethren is not becoming.

> > >

> > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/> tism.org/

> > > >

> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > >

> > > >

> > > J. Krakow

> > > Attorney At Law

> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > (516) 354-3300

> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Why are you criticizing Holly? The CAA Bill is a piece of doodoo, since there is no language in that piece of legislation to make any room for examining how vaccines and/or how vaccine ingredients may be impacting people who have suffered adverse reactions from various vaccines. Aasamercerdad13 <wmpenn200@...> wrote: What's the basis for your comments, Holly? If you could articulate yourself without using vulgar language, maybe someone would listen to you. Have you ever

successfully passed a bill? Probably not. Stop throwing stones at the very people who trying to make a difference for every child with autism. Put your energies into something productive...criticizing your brethren is not becoming. > > > > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/> tism.org/> > > >> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB> > > >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> > > Attorney At Law> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125>

> > Lake Success, New York 11042> > > (516) 354-3300> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Since you said you were new, perhaps what you should do is google

the name Holly Bortfeld and Autism and you will see just how many

rocks she has thrown and who she hit in the head and didn't! Just

sit back and watch how good of an aim she is when she hits Frist

right where it counts! Holly, if your pile or rocks gets low, call

me and I'll send some!

Sally

> > > >

> > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/>

tism.org/

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > J. Krakow

> > > > Attorney At Law

> > > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > > (516) 354-3300

> > > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Since you said you were new, perhaps what you should do is google

the name Holly Bortfeld and Autism and you will see just how many

rocks she has thrown and who she hit in the head and didn't! Just

sit back and watch how good of an aim she is when she hits Frist

right where it counts! Holly, if your pile or rocks gets low, call

me and I'll send some!

Sally

> > > >

> > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/>

tism.org/

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > J. Krakow

> > > > Attorney At Law

> > > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > > (516) 354-3300

> > > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

While some may not like the manner in which Holly expressed her

opinion, time will prove her assessment of the CAA (as passed in the

Senate) is accurate.

Having been politically active and having served as an elected

official for a number of years, I DO understand politics. I

understand how bills are passed; the back room deals and political

quid pro quo.

Our children will pay the price for allowing political posturing and

hidden agendas to shape this issue. And they did, don't kid

yourselves into thinking otherwise.

There is a thin line between compromise and selling out...in my

opinion, that line was crossed.

The Combating Autism Act (as passed in the Senate) could very easily

come back to haunt parents in the autism community. Worse than

that, it will haunt our children.

I encourage everyone to really READ the bill for themselves. Study

it in-depth. It is quite different from the way it is being

presented by some.

While NoMercury did support the revised consensus language, we did

not support the changes made in the HELP Committee. I, for one, am

not the least bit upset that our logo (NoMercury) was removed from

the CAA website. Once some of the groups broke the consensus and

thereby broke their promise to the autism community to stick

together to flex our political muscle for a better bill then I

wanted no part of standing with those who would rather " settle " for

a bill that could prove a hardship to our efforts for the children.

Groups, such as CAN, ASA, Autism Speaks, etc., had their reasons and

motivations (which I hope will one day soon become crystal clear to

parents) and were willing to " settle " for less to get a bill through

no matter what was sacrificed, be it oversight or unbiased

biomedical research into vaccines and Thimerosal.

Every person and every group needs to take an objective look that

their position on this issue and ask the hard question...are our

decisions regarding the Combating Autism Act TRULY serving the best

interests of the children or does it serve the interests, agenda,

bottom line or " branding " of some organization? It doesn't count to

qualify our decisions by saying the money is " for the children " or

that our group is well-intentioned because we are all " well-

intentioned " and remember the adage, " The road to Hades is paved

with good intentions. "

I can only hope we see a more honest dialogue in the House...the

Senate made a mockery of everything that parents have fought so hard

to get Congress to address.

It has been our privilege at NoMercury to assist parents in the

numerous state legislative efforts to ban mercury in vaccines and

biologics. Parent advocates made those bills a reality and those

efforts are continuing. We won't stop until every state has mercury-

free vaccines. That is our mission.

Holly may speak rather harsh and candid for some people's taste but

I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with her any day and lobby

for our children. She is reasonable but will not compromise the

best interests of children just to say, " see, I got a bill passed. "

By the way, her demeanor and tone when lobbying is both appropriate

and forthright. She does her homework. She knows the science and

the politics of this issue. She is one smart mama!

Lujene

President

NoMercury

Founding Board Member

A-CHAMP

Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless

piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids???

Well, it wasn't me.

I wouldn't want my name on this disaster. We still have time to

kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and

say " hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We

want the answers. "

Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does

not do that. It's a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to

show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research,

real funding, a real bill.

Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips.

[Guest guest]

While there may be a wag-the-dog scenario which is pushed right before the election, the likelihood is that the politics becomes much more favorable to our position with a new, fresh congress.

RE: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids??? Well, it wasn’t me.

I wouldn’t want my name on this disaster. We still have time to kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and say “hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We want the answers.” Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does not do that. It’s a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research, real funding, a real bill. Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips.

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of mercerdad13Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:40 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

I'm new to the list...who really made it possible?> > > > > http://www.combatautism.org/> > >> > > Don't know when this site went live. KB> > >> > > > > J. Krakow> > Attorney At Law> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > Lake Success, New York 11042> > (516) 354-3300> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> >>

[Guest guest]

-Hi,

Just a reminder that Lenny (our Den mother) does not tolerate

comments about other people behaviors, writing styles etc.. He just

reminded us of this about two weeks ago when some people became

upset about one posters comments.

Being new to the list you probably wouldn't know that.

Just a heads up on what might get you tossed from this group.

-- In EOHarm , " mercerdad13 " <wmpenn200@...> wrote:

>

> What's the basis for your comments, Holly? If you could

articulate

> yourself without using vulgar language, maybe someone would listen

> to you. Have you ever successfully passed a bill? Probably not.

> Stop throwing stones at the very people who trying to make a

> difference for every child with autism. Put your energies into

> something productive...criticizing your brethren is not becoming.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/>

tism.org/

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > J. Krakow

> > > > Attorney At Law

> > > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > > (516) 354-3300

> > > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is not a surprise.

What would have been a surprise is that you got the legislation you wanted.

How do you ask a group which was responsible for legislation poisoning millions of children to provide the evidence upon which this issue turns?

You don't and you got what one would expect.

Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

The exact history is something I will leave up to Krakow, , Theresa, Kerbob, Holly or as they all seem to be much better at explaining it than I. Also if you do a search of messages you will find the discussion about the "altered and revised" CAA that was passed, not the original one that ALL the groups worked on. Once it was revised to remove the vaccine language, then the groups that mentioned, i.e. MAM, A-champ, had no other choice but to pull their sponsorship of the bill. If you go to www.achamp.org you will be able to have it explained as well. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.Sally> > > > > > > http://www.combatautism.org/> > > >> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB> > > >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> > > Attorney At Law> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > > Lake Success, New York 11042> > > (516) 354-3300> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear new member,

Why in the world, if you are new and don't know Holly or the rest of the list

members, would you start out picking on her??? Actuallly what she wrote was

pretty mild.

You may have a different view of the bill and/or a different way of

expressing yourself but your attack was out of line.

Holly is extremely capable of responding to you herself, if she chooses, so

I'll leave that to her.

However, I would like to comment on something she said that I don't think has

been discussed enough concerning the bill... Holly was absolutely correct

when she said...

<<< our kids deserve real research, real funding, a real bill.

Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips. >>>

Some of you parents have not been around long enough to realize that while $1

million that 'might possibly' make it to some vaccine/environmental toxin

investigations, and the many other biomedical research studies that relate to

the

immune problems so many of our children have, sounds good, the reality is th

at all the rest of the money in that bill is not going there nor will it be

spent on either prevention of or treatments for autism, BASED ON THE RESULTS of

that badly needed research.

The very individuals and groups who are interested in the money, NOT in

preventing autism nor in helping our kids immune system problems, will be able

to

do EVEN MORE DAMAGE than they have in the past simply because they've never had

that kind of funding either. They will continue to keep their own selfish

agendas afloat. That is their record. They are NOT innocents.

Our children are the innocent victims as are all of us, young and old, who

are being continually subjected to the damage of all the contamination/

pollution issues bombarding our bodies and our brains daily.

Soggy potato chips " are indeed what has been offered.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Putting aside for the moment the debate about CAA, since the last

poster asked about Holly, I would like to point out that Holly has

worked with a number of groups that have " successfully passed a bill. "

As I'm sure you know, passing a bill is a political process that

requires the collective work of many individuals and groups. Building a

movement and an effective coalition is what it takes. In a very short

time, in NY and other states, in cooperation with other organizations,

A-CHAMP or its members and coalition partners (including NoMercury)

have led or participated in the passage of many pieces of legislation -

legislation that directly helps our kids. Holly has participated in

and supported a number of those efforts. She is a veteran.

We are all trying to make a difference. Sometimes criticism - not

addressing the criticism here - is productive. Without criticism we

will get what those in power - those who dominate the power structure

in D.C. - shove down our throats.

I credit the efforts of many parents to get something done for our

kids. Surely, you would not want to stifle healthy debate by saying

that it is inappropriate to criticize a position that may not be

helpful for our kids, even though it appears helpful. Simply to say

that someone or some organization is " trying to make a difference " does

not automatically validate the position those people or organizations

take. Sometimes it is very important to respectfully disagree with

" brethren " when they are misguided or misdirected. I would submit that

doing so is the essence of doing " something productive " and is the only

responsible conduct in which to engage.

And while this may violate the list moderator's edict on commenting on

an individual's activities, I know that right now Holly is doing

something highly productive for all our kids.

As for the reasons why CAA may not be the panacea - may even be a

setback - we can get into that when the dust settles. See my earlier

post on the colloquy language's reference to the IOM report for one

reason why CAA may not be what we want. I am sure right now some

groups are debating the merits of the CAA passed by the Senate. Whether

or not it becomes law many parents will be right there, shining a light

on the NIH and CDC, making sure that the bureaucratic machinations of

the past, and the industry/government collusion directing [suppressing]

research, does not continue without criticism and counter political

pressure. This will include groups on differing sides of the CAA

question, the advocacy for which unfortunately became a tool for

dividing us, rather than building a strong parents' movement.

On Aug 5, 2006, at 12:37 AM, mercerdad13 wrote:

> What's the basis for your comments, Holly? If you could articulate

> yourself without using vulgar language, maybe someone would listen

> to you. Have you ever successfully passed a bill? Probably not.

> Stop throwing stones at the very people who trying to make a

> difference for every child with autism. Put your energies into

> something productive...criticizing your brethren is not becoming.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/> tism.org/

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > J. Krakow

> > > > Attorney At Law

> > > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > > (516) 354-3300

> > > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

J. Krakow

Attorney At Law

2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

Lake Success, New York 11042

(516) 354-3300

(646) 349-1771 (fax)

(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]

I replied to this too. Your message, however, never came through.

Wonder why? Lenny censorship?

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:40 AM, lujene_clark wrote:

> While some may not like the manner in which Holly expressed her

> opinion, time will prove her assessment of the CAA (as passed in the

> Senate) is accurate.

>

> Having been politically active and having served as an elected

> official for a number of years, I DO understand politics. I

> understand how bills are passed; the back room deals and political

> quid pro quo.

>

> Our children will pay the price for allowing political posturing and

> hidden agendas to shape this issue. And they did, don't kid

> yourselves into thinking otherwise.

>

> There is a thin line between compromise and selling out...in my

> opinion, that line was crossed.

>

> The Combating Autism Act (as passed in the Senate) could very easily

> come back to haunt parents in the autism community. Worse than

> that, it will haunt our children.

>

> I encourage everyone to really READ the bill for themselves. Study

> it in-depth. It is quite different from the way it is being

> presented by some.

>

> While NoMercury did support the revised consensus language, we did

> not support the changes made in the HELP Committee. I, for one, am

> not the least bit upset that our logo (NoMercury) was removed from

> the CAA website. Once some of the groups broke the consensus and

> thereby broke their promise to the autism community to stick

> together to flex our political muscle for a better bill then I

> wanted no part of standing with those who would rather " settle " for

> a bill that could prove a hardship to our efforts for the children.

>

> Groups, such as CAN, ASA, Autism Speaks, etc., had their reasons and

> motivations (which I hope will one day soon become crystal clear to

> parents) and were willing to " settle " for less to get a bill through

> no matter what was sacrificed, be it oversight or unbiased

> biomedical research into vaccines and Thimerosal.

>

> Every person and every group needs to take an objective look that

> their position on this issue and ask the hard question...are our

> decisions regarding the Combating Autism Act TRULY serving the best

> interests of the children or does it serve the interests, agenda,

> bottom line or " branding " of some organization? It doesn't count to

> qualify our decisions by saying the money is " for the children " or

> that our group is well-intentioned because we are all " well-

> intentioned " and remember the adage, " The road to Hades is paved

> with good intentions. "

>

> I can only hope we see a more honest dialogue in the House...the

> Senate made a mockery of everything that parents have fought so hard

> to get Congress to address.

>

> It has been our privilege at NoMercury to assist parents in the

> numerous state legislative efforts to ban mercury in vaccines and

> biologics. Parent advocates made those bills a reality and those

> efforts are continuing. We won't stop until every state has mercury-

> free vaccines. That is our mission.

>

> Holly may speak rather harsh and candid for some people's taste but

> I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with her any day and lobby

> for our children. She is reasonable but will not compromise the

> best interests of children just to say, " see, I got a bill passed. "

> By the way, her demeanor and tone when lobbying is both appropriate

> and forthright. She does her homework. She knows the science and

> the politics of this issue. She is one smart mama!

>

> Lujene

> President

> NoMercury

>

> Founding Board Member

> A-CHAMP

>

>

>

> Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless

> piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids???

> Well, it wasn't me.

>

> I wouldn't want my name on this disaster. We still have time to

> kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and

> say " hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We

> want the answers. "

>

> Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does

> not do that. It's a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to

> show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research,

> real funding, a real bill.

>

> Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips.

>

>

J. Krakow

Attorney At Law

2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

Lake Success, New York 11042

(516) 354-3300

(646) 349-1771 (fax)

(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]

Sorry, the message (Lujene's) did come through on EOH. Sorry, Lenny.

On Aug 5, 2006, at 9:59 AM, J. Krakow wrote:

> I replied to this too. Your message, however, never came through.

> Wonder why? Lenny censorship?

> On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:40 AM, lujene_clark wrote:

>

>> While some may not like the manner in which Holly expressed her

>> opinion, time will prove her assessment of the CAA (as passed in the

>> Senate) is accurate.

>>

>> Having been politically active and having served as an elected

>> official for a number of years, I DO understand politics. I

>> understand how bills are passed; the back room deals and political

>> quid pro quo.

>>

>> Our children will pay the price for allowing political posturing and

>> hidden agendas to shape this issue. And they did, don't kid

>> yourselves into thinking otherwise.

>>

>> There is a thin line between compromise and selling out...in my

>> opinion, that line was crossed.

>>

>> The Combating Autism Act (as passed in the Senate) could very easily

>> come back to haunt parents in the autism community. Worse than

>> that, it will haunt our children.

>>

>> I encourage everyone to really READ the bill for themselves. Study

>> it in-depth. It is quite different from the way it is being

>> presented by some.

>>

>> While NoMercury did support the revised consensus language, we did

>> not support the changes made in the HELP Committee. I, for one, am

>> not the least bit upset that our logo (NoMercury) was removed from

>> the CAA website. Once some of the groups broke the consensus and

>> thereby broke their promise to the autism community to stick

>> together to flex our political muscle for a better bill then I

>> wanted no part of standing with those who would rather " settle " for

>> a bill that could prove a hardship to our efforts for the children.

>>

>> Groups, such as CAN, ASA, Autism Speaks, etc., had their reasons and

>> motivations (which I hope will one day soon become crystal clear to

>> parents) and were willing to " settle " for less to get a bill through

>> no matter what was sacrificed, be it oversight or unbiased

>> biomedical research into vaccines and Thimerosal.

>>

>> Every person and every group needs to take an objective look that

>> their position on this issue and ask the hard question...are our

>> decisions regarding the Combating Autism Act TRULY serving the best

>> interests of the children or does it serve the interests, agenda,

>> bottom line or " branding " of some organization? It doesn't count to

>> qualify our decisions by saying the money is " for the children " or

>> that our group is well-intentioned because we are all " well-

>> intentioned " and remember the adage, " The road to Hades is paved

>> with good intentions. "

>>

>> I can only hope we see a more honest dialogue in the House...the

>> Senate made a mockery of everything that parents have fought so hard

>> to get Congress to address.

>>

>> It has been our privilege at NoMercury to assist parents in the

>> numerous state legislative efforts to ban mercury in vaccines and

>> biologics. Parent advocates made those bills a reality and those

>> efforts are continuing. We won't stop until every state has mercury-

>> free vaccines. That is our mission.

>>

>> Holly may speak rather harsh and candid for some people's taste but

>> I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with her any day and lobby

>> for our children. She is reasonable but will not compromise the

>> best interests of children just to say, " see, I got a bill passed. "

>> By the way, her demeanor and tone when lobbying is both appropriate

>> and forthright. She does her homework. She knows the science and

>> the politics of this issue. She is one smart mama!

>>

>> Lujene

>> President

>> NoMercury

>>

>> Founding Board Member

>> A-CHAMP

>>

>>

>>

>> Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless

>> piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids???

>> Well, it wasn't me.

>>

>> I wouldn't want my name on this disaster. We still have time to

>> kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and

>> say " hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We

>> want the answers. "

>>

>> Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does

>> not do that. It's a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to

>> show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research,

>> real funding, a real bill.

>>

>> Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips.

>>

>>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney At Law

> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> Lake Success, New York 11042

> (516) 354-3300

> (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

>

>

>

J. Krakow

Attorney At Law

2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

Lake Success, New York 11042

(516) 354-3300

(646) 349-1771 (fax)

(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]



It's great that you point these things out, .

If the IOM 2004 paper is viewed as trustworthy and the end of the issue, then we know the person referencing the IOM as the final say is untrustworthy. And the legislation supported by those who make such statements is certainly untrustworthy.

Time will tell what CAA provides.

But the fact that we are all alerted to these issues and have placed the process under a magnifying glass, certainly can't hurt.

As an aside, I think the moderator is more concerned about the healthy debate which often occurs on this site collapsing into personal attacks- which is rarely productive.

Re: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

Putting aside for the moment the debate about CAA, since the last poster asked about Holly, I would like to point out that Holly has worked with a number of groups that have "successfully passed a bill." As I'm sure you know, passing a bill is a political process that requires the collective work of many individuals and groups. Building a movement and an effective coalition is what it takes. In a very short time, in NY and other states, in cooperation with other organizations, A-CHAMP or its members and coalition partners (including NoMercury) have led or participated in the passage of many pieces of legislation - legislation that directly helps our kids. Holly has participated in and supported a number of those efforts. She is a veteran.We are all trying to make a difference. Sometimes criticism - not addressing the criticism here - is productive. Without criticism we will get what those in power - those who dominate the power structure in D.C. - shove down our throats. I credit the efforts of many parents to get something done for our kids. Surely, you would not want to stifle healthy debate by saying that it is inappropriate to criticize a position that may not be helpful for our kids, even though it appears helpful. Simply to say that someone or some organization is "trying to make a difference" does not automatically validate the position those people or organizations take. Sometimes it is very important to respectfully disagree with "brethren" when they are misguided or misdirected. I would submit that doing so is the essence of doing "something productive" and is the only responsible conduct in which to engage.And while this may violate the list moderator's edict on commenting on an individual's activities, I know that right now Holly is doing something highly productive for all our kids.As for the reasons why CAA may not be the panacea - may even be a setback - we can get into that when the dust settles. See my earlier post on the colloquy language's reference to the IOM report for one reason why CAA may not be what we want. I am sure right now some groups are debating the merits of the CAA passed by the Senate. Whether or not it becomes law many parents will be right there, shining a light on the NIH and CDC, making sure that the bureaucratic machinations of the past, and the industry/government collusion directing [suppressing] research, does not continue without criticism and counter political pressure. This will include groups on differing sides of the CAA question, the advocacy for which unfortunately became a tool for dividing us, rather than building a strong parents' movement.On Aug 5, 2006, at 12:37 AM, mercerdad13 wrote:

What's the basis for your comments, Holly? If you could articulate yourself without using vulgar language, maybe someone would listen to you. Have you ever successfully passed a bill? Probably not. Stop throwing stones at the very people who trying to make a difference for every child with autism. Put your energies into something productive...criticizing your brethren is not becoming. > > > > > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/> tism.org/> > > >> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB> > > >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> > > Attorney At Law> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > > Lake Success, New York 11042> > > (516) 354-3300> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> > >> >> J. KrakowAttorney At Law2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125Lake Success, New York 11042(516) 354-3300 (646) 349-1771 (fax)(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]



Trust, Burton, Weldon, Maloney, among others.

The House is more open, honest.

The Senate is filled with a bunch of pandering dissemblers.

Other than perhaps Joe Lieberman (and even if you disagree with the guy), I can't think of one member of the Senate who is forthright.

Re: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

I replied to this too. Your message, however, never came through. Wonder why? Lenny censorship?On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:40 AM, lujene_clark wrote:

While some may not like the manner in which Holly expressed her opinion, time will prove her assessment of the CAA (as passed in the Senate) is accurate.Having been politically active and having served as an elected official for a number of years, I DO understand politics. I understand how bills are passed; the back room deals and political quid pro quo. Our children will pay the price for allowing political posturing and hidden agendas to shape this issue. And they did, don't kid yourselves into thinking otherwise. There is a thin line between compromise and selling out...in my opinion, that line was crossed.The Combating Autism Act (as passed in the Senate) could very easily come back to haunt parents in the autism community. Worse than that, it will haunt our children.I encourage everyone to really READ the bill for themselves. Study it in-depth. It is quite different from the way it is being presented by some.While NoMercury did support the revised consensus language, we did not support the changes made in the HELP Committee. I, for one, am not the least bit upset that our logo (NoMercury) was removed from the CAA website. Once some of the groups broke the consensus and thereby broke their promise to the autism community to stick together to flex our political muscle for a better bill then I wanted no part of standing with those who would rather "settle" for a bill that could prove a hardship to our efforts for the children.Groups, such as CAN, ASA, Autism Speaks, etc., had their reasons and motivations (which I hope will one day soon become crystal clear to parents) and were willing to "settle" for less to get a bill through no matter what was sacrificed, be it oversight or unbiased biomedical research into vaccines and Thimerosal. Every person and every group needs to take an objective look that their position on this issue and ask the hard question...are our decisions regarding the Combating Autism Act TRULY serving the best interests of the children or does it serve the interests, agenda, bottom line or "branding" of some organization? It doesn't count to qualify our decisions by saying the money is "for the children" or that our group is well-intentioned because we are all "well-intentioned" and remember the adage, "The road to Hades is paved with good intentions."I can only hope we see a more honest dialogue in the House...the Senate made a mockery of everything that parents have fought so hard to get Congress to address.It has been our privilege at NoMercury to assist parents in the numerous state legislative efforts to ban mercury in vaccines and biologics. Parent advocates made those bills a reality and those efforts are continuing. We won't stop until every state has mercury-free vaccines. That is our mission.Holly may speak rather harsh and candid for some people's taste but I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with her any day and lobby for our children. She is reasonable but will not compromise the best interests of children just to say, "see, I got a bill passed." By the way, her demeanor and tone when lobbying is both appropriate and forthright. She does her homework. She knows the science and the politics of this issue. She is one smart mama!Lujene PresidentNoMercuryFounding Board MemberA-CHAMPMade what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids??? Well, it wasn't me. I wouldn't want my name on this disaster. We still have time to kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and say "hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We want the answers." Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does not do that. It's a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research, real funding, a real bill. Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips. J. KrakowAttorney At Law2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125Lake Success, New York 11042(516) 354-3300 (646) 349-1771 (fax)(212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

[Guest guest]

Holly and Sally, I'm with you. The CAA is a worthless piece of legislation. I wouldn't want my name on something that will probably do more harm than good.

RE: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

Made what possible? Getting the CAA bill passed??? A worthless piece of legislation that will never ever help any of our kids??? Well, it wasn’t me.

I wouldn’t want my name on this disaster. We still have time to kill this bill and come back to the table next year stronger and say “hey, we will not settle for bad science and no oversight. We want the answers.” Our kids deserve a real bill that will really help them. CAA does not do that. It’s a crap bill and it needs to die a fiery death to show those who supported it that our kids deserve real research, real funding, a real bill. Soggy potato chips are not better than no potato chips.

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of mercerdad13Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:40 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: combatautism.org/MAM, No HG,achamp logo gone

I'm new to the list...who really made it possible?> > > > > http://www.combatautism.org/> > >> > > Don't know when this site went live. KB> > >> > > > > J. Krakow> > Attorney At Law> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > Lake Success, New York 11042> > (516) 354-3300> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> >>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 8/3/2006

[Guest guest]

Why the vulgar remarks from Holly? Here's the history you might be

looking for. Do some investigating of your own. Also look into the

990's, tax records, of some of the autism organizations - you will

find that they all give money to each other to keep up the fight so

their board members who are medical doctors can continue in

the " worthy " cause of autism - yeah right. I HAVE PUT MY COMMENTS IN

CAPITALS.

The following is taken directly from the combating autism act

www.combatautism.org

The Act represents years of dedicated effort by parents and

families, bringing legislative action to confront the crisis of

autism.

WELL THE 'CRISIS' WAS CAUSED BY THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING

THE MONEY TO TREAT IT!

The history of this important piece of legislation began with the

Advancement in Pediatric Autism Research Act, which later became

Title 1 of the Children's Health Act of 2000. The Combating Autism

Act that passed the Senate today began as a reauthorization of the

autism section in the Children's Health Act.

THERE THEY SAID IT THEMSELVES - IT STILL THE SAME OLD, SAME OLD JUST

GIVEN A NEW NAME!

The Combating Autism Act as passed by the full Senate authorizes

over five years about $920 million in appropriations for autism

research and services, consisting of:

$ 405 million for discretionary research, collection and storage of

data, and a strategic plan for autism research.

DISCRETIONARY: What the heck does that mean? Who is gathering this

info? Does it include the vaccine injured with that precise

language? Probably not.

Will they start a new gathering information, or still relying on the

CDC's botched stats?

$ 185 million for Autism Centers of Excellence

THERE ARE ONLY 5 CENTERS! As I said earlier, there will be huge

waiting lists for these places, worse than we've ever seen before.

Docs will probably refer new parents ONLY to these centers. These

are centers that are making money off of this bill, they will have

to be watched very carefully to ensure that they spend every dime on

autism. Keep in mind that these days hospitals are losing money big

time.

$ 45 million for Centers of Excellence in Environmental Health and

Autism

WHAT EXACTLY DOES THIS MEAN? Where are the specifics about

vaccines? This money will probably just go into the pockets of the

higher ups who run the commissions on this and if there aren't any

committees on it, they will use this money to form them without

doing anything to directly impact the kids.

$ 75 million for Centers of Excellence in Autism Spectrum Disorder

Epidemiology. ($15 million for fiscal year 2007, plus such sums as

may be necessary for each of fiscal years 2008-2011, which we can

assume will be no less than $15 million per year.)

YEAH, WE " ASS U ME " too! We will not see any of this money directed

towards vaccines epidemiology. Again these Centers of Excellence

getting more and more to split between the 5 of them.

$ 210 million for autism education, early detection, and

intervention, including $ 45 million specifically authorized for

interventions.

Again, these centers are the ones who are getting the money to set

up what they are calling " The Gold Standards of Excellence " . The 45

mil for interventions, any of that spent on biomedical? Probably

not...most likely more money for the centers who are the ones

running the ABA programs - not against ABA used it myself, but in

conjunction with many other methods.

Such sums as may be necessary for the Interagency Autism

Coordinating Committee.

Okay, so now this is their way of saying they are going to be

spending money on conferences, hotel rooms, plane trips, lunches and

of course hiring more people to do the " Gold Standards of

Excellency " .

Who determined this? The ATN - the Autism Treatment Network, mainly

spearheaded by CAN. Check out the board members of some of these

groups, like CAN. There you will see the same Physicians who are

running and working at these 5 treatment centers.

Basically this bill just got those physicians and treatment centers

a 920 million dollar raise, while we sit with our hands out looking

for money to treat our vaccine damaged children. How many of use

cannot do chelation just because we cannot afford it? I'm not too

proud to mention that I am one of them and I know many, many more.

So this is why this legislation is a piece of worthless crap, as

Holly put it.

> > >

> > > > http://www.combatau <http://www.combatautism.org/> tism.org/

> > > >

> > > > Don't know when this site went live. KB

> > > >

> > > >

> > > J. Krakow

> > > Attorney At Law

> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125

> > > Lake Success, New York 11042

> > > (516) 354-3300

> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)

> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)

> > >

> >

>