Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 This is probably what he will discuss tomorrow. I predict a big chunk of it will be on vaccines, the mumps/polio, bird flu...and of course liability protection. http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=10131 Wilkes News University Hosts the Grace Kimball Memorial Lecture Tuesday, April 11, 2006 The Biology, Chemistry and Health Sciences department of Wilkes University will host the 2006 Grace Kimball Memorial Lecturer, Dr. A. Offit, M.D., on April 27, 2006 at 8p.m. in room 101 Stark Learning Center. Dr. Offit will present “The Cutter Incident: How America’s First Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis.” In the spring of 1955, inadequately inactivated polio vaccine produced by Cutter Laboratories caused active polio virus infection of at least 40,000 children, leading to 51 cases of permanent paralysis and 5 deaths. While investigation of the Cutter incident, one of the worst pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history, led to improvements in regulation of vaccine manufacture, the ruling in a lawsuit on behalf of one of the victims, Gottsdanker v. Cutter Laboratories, established the principle of liability without fault, which has had the effect of discouraging development of novel pharmaceutical products, including vaccines. Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at the University Of Pennsylvania School Of Medicine. He is also the chief of Infectious Diseases and the Henle Professor of Immunologic and Infectious Diseases at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and immunology and was a member of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Offit has published more than 130 papers in medical and scientific journals. He is the co-author of the books, Vaccines: What You Should Know ( Wiley, 2003, third edition) and Breaking the Antibiotic Habit: A Parents Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear Infections, and Sore Throats (Wiley, 1999). For more information, please contact Dr. Pidcock at 408-4766 or e-mail, kenneth.pidcock@.... Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Hi Bobbie. For many of us, tomorrow is a no school day..which may be more challenging but puts us by the TV and our phones. What time is this on and can you list the number again? Thanks. > > I think some clarification is needed. The Offit presentation is a panel > discussion not a program that will take calls, at least I don't think it > will. > > The only way to make our points is to call in to Washington Journal and ask > why Offit is being given this forum, why do they cut people off that call in > and question vaccine safety. > Ask the host why they have guests on to talk about the possible bird flu > epidemic but they screen and dump callers who want to talk about the autism > epidemic. > > A few years back there was a small group of us who would call Washington > Journal on a regular basis and get past the screeners. It drove them crazy > and made the guests squirm > when we talked about our kids getting poisoned and the government doing > nothing about it. I remember getting a call into Newt Gingrich and watching > the smile vanish from his face > the more I talked. We blindsided Christie Todd Whitman, Arianna Huffington, > Ralph Nadar and numerous members of congress. The challenge of getting > through was as gratifying > as knowing that millions of people were going to hear you talk about mercury > containing vaccines causing autism, ADHD and Alzheimer's. Sometimes callers > would call in after one > of our calls and agree with what we said. > > Washington Journal is a great way to reach the masses with our message if > you have the time to sit and hit redial, cleaver enough to get past the > screeners and then quick enough to > deliver your points. Unfortunately it is on at the same time that we are > getting our kids ready for school so it takes some planning. > > > Offit > > > >I would like to first challenge his credibility, then explain the bird > > flu has not affected one american. Yet we will earmark a few billion > > every year. I am disturbed that c-span would give him this forum at > > this time in the debate. I am disgusted and will make my points known > > to c-span after this interview, especially if it is a one sided pro- > > profit debate. > > > > > > > > P.S. If you get through please have a alternative point to your original > > in case someone on our side makes it. I hope everyone calls in and > > embarasses him and makes him look like the evil crook he is! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Saw a lot of it and will review the tape. Dr. Offit basically needs to return to the blackboard and re-design his vaccine for oral dosage, then he can use it on himself and his trio of parrots. They all exhibit severe rotavirus of the mouth. This presentation was designed to taunt everybody in our autism- mercury community into doing something stupid. DO NOT rise to the bait. These guys are idiots, but useful idiots. Use their words against them. Words work one way when spoked, but work another way when written down then read. What they said may actually have sounded good to their itching ears, but once it's transcripted and reasonably honestly interpretated on the web it becomes a boomarang. History never fails to prove liars as liars. Senator Frist controls C-SPAN II so what's the use of demanding equal time for Bobby Kennedy and Kirby? > > > > > omg- he is showing the USA Ad > > > > > > > i meant USA Today Ad.... > > > > He talked about our group. He called us " sinister " > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 The American Enterprise Institute has it available on-line at: http://tinyurl.com/ha2s3 > > For those of us who missed this Offitt interview. Who carried it? > (CNN or C-Span) and any chance it will be re-aired? Transcript? > > Was this retaliation for last weeks events? Since he was referring > to the USA AD. > > Details please! > > Thanks, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Great point. Although the creation of the vaccine court may be a legitimate expression of public policy by Congress, arguing to make that the only available forum because jurors aren't sophisticated enough to " get it " is offensive to us all. As a defense lawyer, who has represented defendants in a wide variety of cases including products-liability matters, I have never seen a matter that is so complicated that jurors can't understand medical causation when the issue is clearly presented. The problem people like Offit is not that lay jurors can't understand the science; their problem is that lay jurors can't understand why the health and welfare of our children was not as important as the economy of this country's vaccine policy. I've touched on these issues before at: http://injectingsense.blogspot.com/2005/11/here-we-go-again.html http://injectingsense.blogspot.com/2005/10/cutter-incident-and-paranoia.html Wade Rankin (you see, Sue, sometimes I wil give myself a plug) > > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as conspiracy > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > problem but in the abstract policy issues. > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and ideologues > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We must be > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > cheaply. > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > acceptable " collateral damage " and in the same breath minimize > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what - we > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > harder we will be fighting. > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, " science courts " are > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed concept > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of thinking > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > " side-effects " of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > events. We know better. > > J. Krakow > Attorney At Law > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125 > Lake Success, New York 11042 > (516) 354-3300 > (646) 349-1771 (fax) > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 The vaccine court doesn't work. Re: Offit Great point. Although the creation of the vaccine court may be alegitimate expression of public policy by Congress, arguing to makethat the only available forum because jurors aren't sophisticatedenough to "get it" is offensive to us all. As a defense lawyer, whohas represented defendants in a wide variety of cases includingproducts-liability matters, I have never seen a matter that is socomplicated that jurors can't understand medical causation when theissue is clearly presented. The problem people like Offit is not thatlay jurors can't understand the science; their problem is that layjurors can't understand why the health and welfare of our children wasnot as important as the economy of this country's vaccine policy.I've touched on these issues before at:http://injectingsense.blogspot.com/2005/11/here-we-go-again.htmlhttp://injectingsense.blogspot.com/2005/10/cutter-incident-and-paranoia.htmlWade Rankin (you see, Sue, sometimes I wil give myself a plug)>> Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as conspiracy > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > problem but in the abstract policy issues.> > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and ideologues > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We must be > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > cheaply.> > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > acceptable "collateral damage" and in the same breath minimize > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what - we > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > harder we will be fighting.> > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, "science courts" are > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed concept > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of thinking > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > "side-effects" of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > events. We know better.>> J. Krakow> Attorney At Law> 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> Lake Success, New York 11042> (516) 354-3300> (646) 349-1771 (fax)> (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006  He's not debating, he's presenting. He refused to debate. http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/offit.html Example format of a debate:First Proposition Constructive: 7 minutesFirst Opposition Constructive: 8 minutesSecond Proposition Constructive: 8 minutesSecond Opposition Constructive: 8 minutesOpposition Rebuttal: 4 minutesProposition Rebuttal: 5 minutes -----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of J. KrakowSent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:21 AMEOHarm Subject: Re: OffitThanks for pointing that out. I will double check the statement - have it on tape.If all he said is that it is same PR firm, that is a different statement, and shows he is retreating to cheap debating techniques and not principled argument.On Apr 14, 2006, at 11:13 AM, christine zichittella-heeren wrote: on 4/14/06 11:09 AM, J. Krakow at rkrakow@... wrote:> Offit stated that the USA Today 6000% CDC ad was financed by the same> people who did the same thing with breast plant litigation - meaning> the trial lawyers and their supporters and organizations, like ATLA.I think he said it was the same PR firm..... I might be wrong.Either way, first time i've heard anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I'm afraid what you would find, Henry, is that until we are able to prove causation with some degree of certainty (meaning that the scientific community will recognize the validity of our hypothesis), the ordinary courts will not work for us either. I am NOT saying that the vaccine court is doing a good job. I only intended to convey an opinion that the creation of an alternative forum is not an evil undertaking, so long as the litigants' right to seek justice elsewhere is not curtailed. And it is the curtailment of that right that Offit seeks. Or as Lenny might say, courts don't screw people, judges and certain lawyers screw people. Wade > > > > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as conspiracy > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > > problem but in the abstract policy issues. > > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and ideologues > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We must be > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > > cheaply. > > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > > acceptable " collateral damage " and in the same breath minimize > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what - we > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > > harder we will be fighting. > > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, " science courts " are > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed concept > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of thinking > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > > " side-effects " of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > > events. We know better. > > > > J. Krakow > > Attorney At Law > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125 > > Lake Success, New York 11042 > > (516) 354-3300 > > (646) 349-1771 (fax) > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 This is very interesting . Wilkes is only about 20 minutes away from me. I would love to go! Anyone else on the list close to Wilkes- Barre PA? > > This is probably what he will discuss tomorrow. I predict a big chunk of it will be on vaccines, the mumps/polio, bird flu...and of course liability protection. > > http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=10131 > > > Wilkes News > > > > > > University Hosts the Grace Kimball Memorial Lecture Tuesday, April 11, 2006 > > The Biology, Chemistry and Health Sciences department of Wilkes University will host the 2006 Grace Kimball Memorial Lecturer, Dr. A. Offit, M.D., on April 27, 2006 at 8p.m. in room 101 Stark Learning Center. > > Dr. Offit will present " The Cutter Incident: How America's First Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis. " In the spring of 1955, inadequately inactivated polio vaccine produced by Cutter Laboratories caused active polio virus infection of at least 40,000 children, leading to 51 cases of permanent paralysis and 5 deaths. While investigation of the Cutter incident, one of the worst pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history, led to improvements in regulation of vaccine manufacture, the ruling in a lawsuit on behalf of one of the victims, Gottsdanker v. Cutter Laboratories, established the principle of liability without fault, which has had the effect of discouraging development of novel pharmaceutical products, including vaccines. > > Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at the University Of Pennsylvania School Of Medicine. He is also the chief of Infectious Diseases and the Henle Professor of Immunologic and Infectious Diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and immunology and was a member of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Offit has published more than 130 papers in medical and scientific journals. He is the co-author of the books, Vaccines: What You Should Know ( Wiley, 2003, third edition) and Breaking the Antibiotic Habit: A Parents Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear Infections, and Sore Throats (Wiley, 1999). > > For more information, please contact Dr. Pidcock at 408-4766 or e- mail, kenneth.pidcock@... > > > > > --------------------------------- > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I have learned to 'only' criticize the military immunization policy and the line our children are forced to stand in to serve (mine are 19 and 20) . I usually bring up number of actual shots and the number of shots actually registered in the shot records, Bioport and anthrax, I then end with Eli Lilly, the CIA, and H.W. Bush. With a little right to refuse speech (you can do it if you want to...), it flips the conversation back to thimerosal and autism and usually creates a silence. Re: Re: Offit You know you have won when they begin to accuse you of criticizing the troops in Iraq! Re: Offit> > luney-tune websites> > said our kids are "heroes" for being damaged by vaccines> compared to soldiers who jump on granades> > what really makes things safer are the vaccines themselves> > by randy bovbjerg> urban institue Health policy center- research associate> > > Offit-> > in 1999- rota virus vaccine> > "we live in a culture of absolute intolerance of any adverse reaction"> > "it clearly would have been a benefit"> > now people there are asking questions....> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 He needs some serious " hecklers " in the crowd. Try this: " Shots should be Mercury free, No more lies from the CDC " Catchy tune, I bet he'll love it! Is the " Cutter incident " the worst pharmaceutical disaster in the US? I can think of another. Can anyone else? > > > > This is probably what he will discuss tomorrow. I predict a big > chunk of it will be on vaccines, the mumps/polio, bird flu...and of > course liability protection. > > > > http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=10131 > > > > > > Wilkes News > > > > > > > > > > > > > University Hosts the Grace Kimball Memorial > Lecture Tuesday, April 11, 2006 > > > > The Biology, Chemistry and Health Sciences department of Wilkes > University will host the 2006 Grace Kimball Memorial Lecturer, Dr. > A. Offit, M.D., on April 27, 2006 at 8p.m. in room 101 Stark > Learning Center. > > > > Dr. Offit will present " The Cutter Incident: How America's First > Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis. " In the spring of > 1955, inadequately inactivated polio vaccine produced by Cutter > Laboratories caused active polio virus infection of at least 40,000 > children, leading to 51 cases of permanent paralysis and 5 deaths. > While investigation of the Cutter incident, one of the worst > pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history, led to improvements in > regulation of vaccine manufacture, the ruling in a lawsuit on behalf > of one of the victims, Gottsdanker v. Cutter Laboratories, > established the principle of liability without fault, which > has had the effect of discouraging development of novel > pharmaceutical products, including vaccines. > > > > Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at the University Of > Pennsylvania School Of Medicine. He is also the chief of Infectious > Diseases and the Henle Professor of Immunologic and Infectious > Diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an > internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and > immunology and was a member of the Advisory Committee on > Immunization Practices to the Centers for Disease Control and > Prevention. Dr. Offit has published more than 130 papers in medical > and scientific journals. He is the co-author of the books, Vaccines: > What You Should Know ( Wiley, 2003, third edition) and Breaking the > Antibiotic Habit: A Parents Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear Infections, > and Sore Throats (Wiley, 1999). > > > > For more information, please contact Dr. Pidcock at 408-4766 or e- > mail, kenneth.pidcock@ > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and > 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Because causation is determined by the very groups or their agents/charges which caused the damage, the fox guards the hen house. A 9/11 type political solution (with avoidance of the Vaccine Courts) may at least unfreeze the lockout. Re: Offit I'm afraid what you would find, Henry, is that until we are able toprove causation with some degree of certainty (meaning that thescientific community will recognize the validity of our hypothesis),the ordinary courts will not work for us either. I am NOT saying that the vaccine court is doing a good job. I onlyintended to convey an opinion that the creation of an alternativeforum is not an evil undertaking, so long as the litigants' right toseek justice elsewhere is not curtailed. And it is the curtailment ofthat right that Offit seeks.Or as Lenny might say, courts don't screw people, judges and certainlawyers screw people. Wade> >> > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us asconspiracy > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > > problem but in the abstract policy issues.> > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people andideologues > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. Wemust be > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > > cheaply.> > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > > acceptable "collateral damage" and in the same breath minimize > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what- we > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > > harder we will be fighting.> > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, "science courts"are > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failedconcept > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type ofthinking > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > > "side-effects" of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > > events. We know better.> >> > J. Krakow> > Attorney At Law> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > Lake Success, New York 11042> > (516) 354-3300> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 That's a good approach. I know a number of marines who,just before being shipped out to Iraq, were forced to take some 20-24 injections at a sitting, using a robotic type device I described in an earlier post. The bolus dose of mercury in those vaccines must be approaching 0.5 mg or more. Anthrax itself has had a number of problems. These marines were very unhappy about the situation, but didn't want to be court martialed. Gives new insight to the term "serving your country." We might want to turn to the various VFW halls around the country as allies. At some point, the states, which administer the federal mandatory vaccination guidelines and pay most of the special education costs, are simply going to say no to the mandatory schedule. Especially if the nitwits continue to try to force people to be poisoned with mercury containing vaccines, in contravention to common sense and in contravention to state statutes. . Re: Offit> > luney-tune websites> > said our kids are "heroes" for being damaged by vaccines> compared to soldiers who jump on granades> > what really makes things safer are the vaccines themselves> > by randy bovbjerg> urban institue Health policy center- research associate> > > Offit-> > in 1999- rota virus vaccine> > "we live in a culture of absolute intolerance of any adverse reaction"> > "it clearly would have been a benefit"> > now people there are asking questions....> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 How about someone getting dressed up as a bird carrying a placard" No mercury in bird flu shots. Re: Offit He needs some serious "hecklers" in the crowd.Try this:"Shots should be Mercury free,No more lies from the CDC"Catchy tune, I bet he'll love it!Is the "Cutter incident" the worst pharmaceutical disaster in the US? I can think of another. Can anyone else?> >> > This is probably what he will discuss tomorrow. I predict a big > chunk of it will be on vaccines, the mumps/polio, bird flu...and of > course liability protection.> > > > http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=10131> > > > > > Wilkes News> > > > > > > > > > > > > University Hosts the Grace Kimball Memorial > Lecture Tuesday, April 11, 2006> > > > The Biology, Chemistry and Health Sciences department of Wilkes > University will host the 2006 Grace Kimball Memorial Lecturer, Dr. > A. Offit, M.D., on April 27, 2006 at 8p.m. in room 101 Stark > Learning Center. > > > > Dr. Offit will present "The Cutter Incident: How America's First > Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis." In the spring of > 1955, inadequately inactivated polio vaccine produced by Cutter > Laboratories caused active polio virus infection of at least 40,000 > children, leading to 51 cases of permanent paralysis and 5 deaths. > While investigation of the Cutter incident, one of the worst > pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history, led to improvements in > regulation of vaccine manufacture, the ruling in a lawsuit on behalf > of one of the victims, Gottsdanker v. Cutter Laboratories, > established the principle of liability without fault, which > has had the effect of discouraging development of novel > pharmaceutical products, including vaccines.> > > > Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at the University Of > Pennsylvania School Of Medicine. He is also the chief of Infectious > Diseases and the Henle Professor of Immunologic and Infectious > Diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an > internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and > immunology and was a member of the Advisory Committee on > Immunization Practices to the Centers for Disease Control and > Prevention. Dr. Offit has published more than 130 papers in medical > and scientific journals. He is the co-author of the books, Vaccines: > What You Should Know ( Wiley, 2003, third edition) and Breaking the > Antibiotic Habit: A Parents Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear Infections, > and Sore Throats (Wiley, 1999).> > > > For more information, please contact Dr. Pidcock at 408-4766 or e-> mail, kenneth.pidcock@ > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and > 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I'm so far past causation. I'm working on willful misconduct http://tinyurl.com/g4bvu http://tinyurl.com/zptkx and malfeasance http://tinyurl.com/k3luz or is that http://tinyurl.com/ej9uk . It is the guidelines they have set: http://tinyurl.com/97c56 The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (December 2005) requires someone who is injured to prove "willful misconduct," and states that the standard will be "more stringent than a standard of negligence in any form or recklessness." -----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of Wade RankinSent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:48 PMEOHarm Subject: *****SPAM***** Re: OffitI'm afraid what you would find, Henry, is that until we are able toprove causation with some degree of certainty (meaning that thescientific community will recognize the validity of our hypothesis),the ordinary courts will not work for us either. I am NOT saying that the vaccine court is doing a good job. I onlyintended to convey an opinion that the creation of an alternativeforum is not an evil undertaking, so long as the litigants' right toseek justice elsewhere is not curtailed. And it is the curtailment ofthat right that Offit seeks.Or as Lenny might say, courts don't screw people, judges and certainlawyers screw people. Wade> >> > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us asconspiracy > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > > problem but in the abstract policy issues.> > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people andideologues > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. Wemust be > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > > cheaply.> > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > > acceptable "collateral damage" and in the same breath minimize > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what- we > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > > harder we will be fighting.> > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, "science courts"are > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failedconcept > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type ofthinking > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > > "side-effects" of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > > events. We know better.> >> > J. Krakow> > Attorney At Law> > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > Lake Success, New York 11042> > (516) 354-3300> > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I love that ! Need more than one heckler though. This man gets under my skin so bad! His appearance with Dan Rather on CBS a few years ago was pathetic. I may have posted this already, but, I have heard about a vaccine litigation story where he and Katz were at the trial actually intimidating the grandparents of the injured child. I'm ready and willing to go!! > > > > > > This is probably what he will discuss tomorrow. I predict a big > > chunk of it will be on vaccines, the mumps/polio, bird flu...and > of > > course liability protection. > > > > > > http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=10131 > > > > > > > > > Wilkes News > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > University Hosts the Grace Kimball > Memorial > > Lecture Tuesday, April 11, 2006 > > > > > > The Biology, Chemistry and Health Sciences department of > Wilkes > > University will host the 2006 Grace Kimball Memorial Lecturer, Dr. > > A. Offit, M.D., on April 27, 2006 at 8p.m. in room 101 Stark > > Learning Center. > > > > > > Dr. Offit will present " The Cutter Incident: How America's > First > > Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis. " In the spring > of > > 1955, inadequately inactivated polio vaccine produced by Cutter > > Laboratories caused active polio virus infection of at least > 40,000 > > children, leading to 51 cases of permanent paralysis and 5 > deaths. > > While investigation of the Cutter incident, one of the worst > > pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history, led to improvements in > > regulation of vaccine manufacture, the ruling in a lawsuit on > behalf > > of one of the victims, Gottsdanker v. Cutter Laboratories, > > established the principle of liability without fault, which > > has had the effect of discouraging development of novel > > pharmaceutical products, including vaccines. > > > > > > Dr. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at the University Of > > Pennsylvania School Of Medicine. He is also the chief of > Infectious > > Diseases and the Henle Professor of Immunologic and Infectious > > Diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an > > internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and > > immunology and was a member of the Advisory Committee on > > Immunization Practices to the Centers for Disease Control and > > Prevention. Dr. Offit has published more than 130 papers in > medical > > and scientific journals. He is the co-author of the books, > Vaccines: > > What You Should Know ( Wiley, 2003, third edition) and Breaking > the > > Antibiotic Habit: A Parents Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear > Infections, > > and Sore Throats (Wiley, 1999). > > > > > > For more information, please contact Dr. Pidcock at 408-4766 > or e- > > mail, kenneth.pidcock@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US > (and > > 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Well, not exactly. The Special Masters, who determine cases in Vaccine Court, are legal professionals. In other words, their background is similar to that of any other judge. Although their decisions will rest upon the " expert " opinions of scientists and/or physicians, the same is true of any decision by a judge or jury in this kind of case. Your point about the Vaccine Court not doing a very good job may well be true, but there is no overt link between the Special Masters and Big Pharma. It probably has more to do with the government attorneys who defend the cases being overly aggressive in their role of protecting the trust fund. Any particular Special Master may feel more disposed to going alojng with the government attorneys than with the plaintiffs' counsel, but again that is no different that ordinary courts. That being said, I am in complete agreement with you that the district courts should be open to vaccine litigation, and that the right to a jury trial should be preserved. let's not think, though, that either forum is going to treat you well any time in the near future. Our fight will be won in the laboratory, the clinics, and ultimately in the halls of Congress. Only after we win in those places will the courts go along. Wade > > > > > > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as > conspiracy > > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. They wish they > > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysis of the > > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the facts of our > > > problem but in the abstract policy issues. > > > > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and > ideologues > > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We > must be > > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy us off > > > cheaply. > > > > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. is right - in > > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, and therefore > > > acceptable " collateral damage " and in the same breath minimize > > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what > - we > > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no idea how much > > > harder we will be fighting. > > > > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, " science courts " > are > > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed > concept > > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist this line of > > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of > thinking > > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These people minimize > > > " side-effects " of vaccines - they all view it as exceedingly rare > > > events. We know better. > > > > > > J. Krakow > > > Attorney At Law > > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125 > > > Lake Success, New York 11042 > > > (516) 354-3300 > > > (646) 349-1771 (fax) > > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Laboratories, congress and at election time. The time when we might have significant leverage is during the election cycle. Re: Offit Well, not exactly. The Special Masters, who determine cases inVaccine Court, are legal professionals. In other words, theirbackground is similar to that of any other judge. Although theirdecisions will rest upon the "expert" opinions of scientists and/orphysicians, the same is true of any decision by a judge or jury inthis kind of case. Your point about the Vaccine Court not doing avery good job may well be true, but there is no overt link between theSpecial Masters and Big Pharma. It probably has more to do with thegovernment attorneys who defend the cases being overly aggressive intheir role of protecting the trust fund. Any particular SpecialMaster may feel more disposed to going alojng with the governmentattorneys than with the plaintiffs' counsel, but again that is nodifferent that ordinary courts.That being said, I am in complete agreement with you that the districtcourts should be open to vaccine litigation, and that the right to ajury trial should be preserved. let's not think, though, that eitherforum is going to treat you well any time in the near future.Our fight will be won in the laboratory, the clinics, and ultimatelyin the halls of Congress. Only after we win in those places will thecourts go along.Wade> > >> > > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as> conspiracy > > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. Theywish they > > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysisof the > > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the factsof our > > > problem but in the abstract policy issues.> > > > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and> ideologues > > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We> must be > > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy usoff > > > cheaply.> > > > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. isright - in > > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, andtherefore > > > acceptable "collateral damage" and in the same breath minimize > > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what> - we > > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no ideahow much > > > harder we will be fighting.> > > > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, "science courts"> are > > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed> concept > > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist thisline of > > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of> thinking > > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These peopleminimize > > > "side-effects" of vaccines - they all view it as exceedinglyrare > > > events. We know better.> > >> > > J. Krakow> > > Attorney At Law> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > > Lake Success, New York 11042> > > (516) 354-3300> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 How about we chop someone's feet off. Then we will tell them there is no reason to compensate because we reduced their risk that they step on a landmine. > > Their continual stance of " if the vaccine reduces the risk of the virus, > then there is no reason to compensate you for any bad reaction to the > vaccine because we reduced your risk to the disease. " Is total horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Now you re catching on! Re: Offit How about we chop someone's feet off. Then we will tell them there is no reason to compensate because we reduced their risk that they step on a landmine. > > Their continual stance of " if the vaccine reduces the risk of the virus, > then there is no reason to compensate you for any bad reaction to the > vaccine because we reduced your risk to the disease. " Is total horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I urge everyone to watch this clip. Know thy enemy! I feel nauseous. He seems so smug and confident…… But, why won’t he debate anyone on this issue? Hmmmmmm. Off to order some Generation Rescue T-shirts…… Pamela " Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. " Eddie Rickenbacker, top US fighter ace, WWI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 ....but there is no overt link between the Special Masters and Big Pharma. http://tinyurl.com/j7c9d http://tinyurl.com/jrqaq Eli Lilly faces hundreds of civil lawsuits from parents who blame thimerosal for their autistic children. But the pharmaceutical giant has powerful friends in the White House and in Congress. The elder Bush sat on Lilly’s board of directors in the 1970s, and White House Budget Director Mitch s was a Lilly executive. Lilly CEO Sidney Taurel was named by President W. Bush to the Homeland Security Advisory Council. In November 2002, Congress passed a provision, tucked into a spending measure for homeland security, to indemnify Eli Lilly from lawsuits and require families to seek compensation through the federally funded Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. It was repealed in February 2003 after public outcry. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) still hopes to pass a similar bill. Congressional consideration for Eli Lilly makes sense: In the 2002 election cycle, the company gave more than $1.5 million to federal candidates, with three quarters to Republicans, making it the fourth-biggest giver in the pharmaceutical industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. In the current election cycle, the company already has given close to $230,000 (67 percent to Republicans) to federal candidates. http://tinyurl.com/2hb3o Meanwhile, though, the federal vaccine injury court is seeking to determine whether sufficient evidence exists that thimerosal caused harm to the children in the 3,500 cases before it. The court was created in 1988 to prevent drug companies from abandoning manufacturing vaccines due to rising liability costs. Before suing manufacturers, families must file claims through the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which awards damages from a fund financed by a fee tacked on to each vaccine's price. A team of special masters hears claims; the federal government is represented by the Justice Department. Regardless of the outcome, families can then move to civil court. In November 2002, the Justice Department asked the vaccine court to seal all documents in the autism cases; only days earlier, congressional Republicans had sneaked a provision into the homeland security bill that would shield Eli Lilly and other pharmaceutical companies from civil suits over thimerosal. Both moves were thwarted by public outcry from parents' groups. Still, because government agencies and industry have been recalcitrant about handing over documents, the discovery process has stalled and families are starting to be allowed to move to civil court. If the thimerosal theory starts to gain traction in court, the cost to the $8 billion-a-year industry could be gigantic. Approximately 40 million American children were immunized in the 1990s. If current rates hold true, roughly 160,000 will be diagnosed with classic autism, another 270,000 with autistic spectrum disorders, and as many as 2 million with pervasive developmental disorders. But whether or not thimerosal is found to be instrumental in the problems facing any of these children, the systemic flaws that allowed mercury levels in vaccines to exceed federal guidelines must be fixed. http://tinyurl.com/97c56 Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert engineered a backroom legislative maneuver to protect pharmaceutical companies from lawsuits, say witnesses to the pre-Christmas power play. The language was tucked into a Defense Department appropriations bill at the last minute without the approval of members of a House-Senate conference committee, say several witnesses, including a top Republican staff member. [...] During a January interview, Frist agreed. Asked about the claim that the vaccine language was inserted after the conference members signed off on the bill, he replied: "To my knowledge, that is incorrect. It was my understanding, you'd have to sort of confirm, that the vaccine liability which had been signed off by leaders of the conference, signed off by the leadership in the United States Senate, signed off by the leadership of the House, it was my understanding throughout that that was part of that conference report." [...] They, consumer groups and others with concerns about possible harm caused by vaccines charge that the move was a gift by Frist to the pharmaceutical industry, which they point out has given a lot of campaign cash to the Nashville doctor through the years. "The senator should be working to ensure there are safe vaccines to protect American families rather than protecting the drug industry's pocketbooks," Pamela Gilbert, president of Protect American Families, said in a statement. The group is an alliance of consumer, labor and advocacy organizations. Frist has received $271,523 in campaign donations from the pharmaceutical and health products industry since 1989, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a watchdog group. He is also a possible candidate for president in 2008. -----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of Wade RankinSent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:28 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: Offit Well, not exactly. The Special Masters, who determine cases inVaccine Court, are legal professionals. In other words, theirbackground is similar to that of any other judge. Although theirdecisions will rest upon the "expert" opinions of scientists and/orphysicians, the same is true of any decision by a judge or jury inthis kind of case. Your point about the Vaccine Court not doing avery good job may well be true, but there is no overt link between theSpecial Masters and Big Pharma. It probably has more to do with thegovernment attorneys who defend the cases being overly aggressive intheir role of protecting the trust fund. Any particular SpecialMaster may feel more disposed to going alojng with the governmentattorneys than with the plaintiffs' counsel, but again that is nodifferent that ordinary courts.That being said, I am in complete agreement with you that the districtcourts should be open to vaccine litigation, and that the right to ajury trial should be preserved. let's not think, though, that eitherforum is going to treat you well any time in the near future.Our fight will be won in the laboratory, the clinics, and ultimatelyin the halls of Congress. Only after we win in those places will thecourts go along.Wade> > >> > > Great points, Holly. These policy wonks are dismissing us as> conspiracy > > > theorists and minimizing the extent of the problem. Theywish they > > > were right, but they will find out otherwise. Bovbjerg does not > > > understand the scope of the problem even though his analysisof the > > > issue contains some balance. He is not rooted in the factsof our > > > problem but in the abstract policy issues.> > > > > > I have been saying for a long time that policy people and> ideologues > > > will be driving this toward a 9/11 trust fund type solution. We> must be > > > prepared for this because the authorities will try to buy usoff > > > cheaply.> > > > > > Your comment on the comparison to firefighters, etc. isright - in > > > Congress many people regard our kids as inevitable, andtherefore > > > acceptable "collateral damage" and in the same breath minimize > > > compensation programs and want us to go away cheaply. Guess what> - we > > > are not going away. Just the opposite - they have no ideahow much > > > harder we will be fighting.> > > > > > Also, the idea that somehow specialized courts, "science courts"> are > > > better at producing justice than courts with juries is a failed> concept > > > to which these policy wonks are wedded. We must resist thisline of > > > thinking because the ones who are victimized by this type of> thinking > > > (victimize the victims) are our children. These peopleminimize > > > "side-effects" of vaccines - they all view it as exceedinglyrare > > > events. We know better.> > >> > > J. Krakow> > > Attorney At Law> > > 2001 Marcus Avenue, Suite N125> > > Lake Success, New York 11042> > > (516) 354-3300> > > (646) 349-1771 (fax)> > > (212) 227-0600 (NYC telephone)> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 I've seen him in newsclips before, I'm just a nursing student and I can point out so many right out misstatements. One, if I remember it correctly being from him, is that it's impossible to overwhelm the immune system. Gee, what's autoimmune dysfunction then? That doesn't take a Nobel prize winner to figure that one out. He won't debate because he's too stupid. They're all too stupid or they'd debate. What made me first sit up and take notice was when those who question vaccine safety would quote science. Then the rebuttals from his side wasn't scientific at all. It was just " vaccines are safe " . They couldn't argue against the science. I began to realize real quick those who were supposed to have science on their side had no science to give and those they were name-calling as ignorant and misinformed where quoting nothing but science. Debi > > I urge everyone to watch this clip. Know thy enemy! I feel nauseous. He > seems so smug and confident.. But, why won't he debate anyone on this issue? > Hmmmmmm. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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