Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Wow you're really angry with me tonight for some reason. I'm not sure why, but let's not resort to name calling and accusations. I don't have a problem with my family and I find it extremely offensive that you would assume that. I get along quite well with my family and we have had conversations about this problem. What I have a problem with (and they have all agreed) is that we have an EPIDEMIC of obesity in this country and we are only making it worse by labeling fatness as a disability. Some people have TRUE medical conditions which cause obesity. I am not even talking about them. What I'm talking about is the people who gain weight and then get a little winded walking across a parking lot. So since they are overweight and NEED exercise we give them a scooter or segway and help them become even more sedentary which leads to further weight gain????? I don't think that concern is narrow-minded. I think maybe we've gotten a little too PC around here if we can't openly say that some people just need to get up and MOVE. That's what every obesity specialist in the country would say. Are they all narrow-minded and bigoted as well? I'm really amazed that you would stretch what I said into taking away medications or using some neo-nazi symbol to mark fat people. I would NOT want to see any harm come to people. I see making people more dependent and sedentary as doing harm. In my perfect world, we would not just enable people to become even more obese - there would be more done to teach children about health and fitness and more education for parents about healthy foods for children. Maybe we can have a conversation about this some time when you're not so angry and can actually hear an opinion that differs from your own on this subject. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued Jenifer, this narrow fat-phobic judgment (yes, it is fat-phobic) is truly ignorant and offensive. Please stop. Your problems with your family is not a valid excuse to discount the accessibility needs of a whole group of people with a physical difference from your own who have just as much right to get around as you or I do. Should we deny access to the quadruplegics who became disabled because they were driving drunk when they smashed into a tree? How about withholding medication from all Type II diabetics and people with high blood pressure because of a lifetime of poor food and limited exercise? Should we label fat people's foreheads to separate those with what you deem to be legitimate reasons to be fat from those who you decide are not legitimate reasons?...Maybe use a gold star? You bring great stuff to this community, but please take this bigoted crap elsewhere. Alana > > > > These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney-on- segway-ban/_ > > > <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney-on- segway-ban/_ > > > Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't see > what's > ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses a > Segway > to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > amusement > park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use their > chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a wheelchair, > especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because Segways can > go > as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that fast. IMHO > > The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > -- > > Guy W. > San Leandro, CA > http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have it, but > > it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that I'm > responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > — Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > A FEW RULES > > * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs So all > members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, swearing..) may > occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate language will > not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian before you > join the list. > > * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the topics of > spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the disabled. > > Post message: @gro ups.com > Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 This is just a low blow and I won't respond except to say that I know, and everyone who really knows me knows that I have never been anything BUT an advocate for my child. It is NOT right to question my level of advocacy for her. Leave my child out of this. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued And, I personally know more than a dozen people who can stand fine but have difficulty walking. The only reason they don't have Segways is because insurance companies don't pay for mobility devices unless they manufactured, marketed, and over-priced as " medical. " One of my most useful adaptive devices is a bamboo backscratcher. Good thing it was only a $1.79. If Blue Cross had any say they'd buy me a $400 prosthetic device that wouldn't work for me. Let us disabled people ourselves decide what works best for us please. Your child needs that same latitude. We're all in this together, even if were fat. As a non- disabled parent you're either an ally to the disability community/movement, or only one to your kid while their a kid (it doesn't help so much if you're not an ally to the movement once they're adults and can't get a job). Alana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 So everyone who wants accommodations should be able to label themselves disabled? That just doesn't seem like the best of plans to me. I've seen too many people who have faked illnesses or injuries to get parking tags. I can only imagine what would happen if it was a personal decision. They would have to designate a LOT more parking spots ;-) As for ME deciding who is disabled or not, that is an inaccurate statement. Actually the federal government has deemed that obesity is NOT a disability in and of itself and that it is not covered under the ADA. I don't think that Disney is trying to decide who is disabled or not. I think the point is that ANYONE can buy a segway and run around at 12.5mph on it. If they start asking people coming in with them to show proof of disability then they are discriminating. If they don't then they have a bunch of 16 yr old kids running around and injuring people. I think this is them deciding to go with the greater good. There is no way for them to make everyone happy in this situation, so they are erring on the side of caution. They are not banning all " motorized conveyance " which some places have tried to do. Do you not think that there has to be some limit on what people can choose to call an assistive device? What about 4-wheelers or golf carts? Should those be allowed? I really think that you read a lot more into my posts than what was there and again, I'm not sure why. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued Yes, I am angry about judgments about who's disabled vs. who is not. That is my point. I don't think an organization such as Disney World should be charged with deciding who needs to exercise vs. who's fat or disabled enough to be allowed to use a Segway. You questioned the legitimacy of whether or not people some people are truly disabled. Gosh, let's not question when someone says they are. So many people have been hurt by this, fat or not. Alana > > > > > > These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > > > _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- on- > segway-ban/_ > > > > > <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- on- > segway-ban/_ > > > > > Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't see > > what's > > ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses a > > Segway > > to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > amusement > > park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use their > > chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a wheelchair, > > especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because Segways > can > > go > > as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that fast. > IMHO > > > > The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > > -- > > > > Guy W. > > San Leandro, CA > > http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > > " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have it, > but > > > > it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that I'm > > responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > — Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > > A FEW RULES > > > > * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs So > all > > members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > > * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, swearing..) > may > > occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate language > will > > not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian before > you > > join the list. > > > > * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the topics of > > spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > disabled. > > > > Post message: @gro ups.com > > Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'm glad I misunderstood and I'm sorry that I didn't read that part more carefully. I'll try to be more careful about that. I do consider myself an advocate, but I will not blindly jump on any bandwagon. Even more than being an advocate for any movement, I am true to my beliefs. I didn't say that fat people should be denied access to anything. I didn't even say that they shouldn't be allowed to use scooters! I just said that fatness itself is not a disability - the government has already upheld that in court. I think maybe I typed too quickly before. I do understand that some people have more trouble walking than standing. If people bringing segways in were willing to show some proof of necessity then I would be all for their use. People won't do that, though. It's just not PC to ask someone to prove that they need something like that. With a wheelchair or scooter you have to have a prescription to get it - it's already certified as a necessity. A segway is not even marketed as an assistive device in the US, though maybe it should be. I still stand firmly by my belief that until people are willing to show proof of necessity for segways, I'd rather not see them in shopping malls or amusement parks. I don't want to be run over because some kid knows that they can get away with bringing it inside. Maybe we should be required to get license plates for them just as we do for cars. I don't know what the solution is, but I do think that Disney is right to err on the side of caution here. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued > > And, I personally know more than a dozen people who can stand fine but > have difficulty walking. The only reason they don't have Segways is > because insurance companies don't pay for mobility devices unless they > manufactured, marketed, and over-priced as " medical. " One of my most > useful adaptive devices is a bamboo backscratcher. Good thing it was > only a $1.79. If Blue Cross had any say they'd buy me a $400 > prosthetic device that wouldn't work for me. Let us disabled people > ourselves decide what works best for us please. Your child needs that > same latitude. We're all in this together, even if were fat. As a non- > disabled parent you're either an ally to the disability > community/movement, or only one to your kid while their a kid (it > doesn't help so much if you're not an ally to the movement once they're > adults and can't get a job). > > Alana > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I've actually thought about a device such as a Segway might really be of real assistance to my son Bryce - age 7 - Type 3 - some day (checked out Segway website a couple years ago with this in mind). At our Disney trip earlier this year, he rode around with his sister in a double Disney kid stroller pushed by my wife or me - but someday (and sooner than later) - he will outgrow this mode of transportation (both physically & mentally)...Bryce is a very able walker - and has walked multiple miles continuously unassisted at various Walk & Roll events over the past couple of years. The use of a device like a Segway - once he is big enough - really could be quite helpful for him since standing really is not an issue - fatigue becomes his biggest hurdle mostly when walking. Actually, the first person we met with SMA - was a very charming, bright 14 year old boy with Type 3 - who per his parents - stands for several hours at a time in social settings to avoid having to sit down and thus have to get back up at some point. For that reason alone, a device like a Segway that does not require any transition between sitting and standing would really be more helpful for Bryce (versus, say, a scooter of pwc). I really hope Disney changes their position on this potentially really assistive device for some folks and my son. Mitch Hope everyone had a Happy Turkey Day (if in US) - or elsewhere just a good ol' regular nice weekend... Re: Disney being sued Yes, I am angry about judgments about who's disabled vs. who is not. That is my point. I don't think an organization such as Disney World should be charged with deciding who needs to exercise vs. who's fat or disabled enough to be allowed to use a Segway. You questioned the legitimacy of whether or not people some people are truly disabled. Gosh, let's not question when someone says they are. So many people have been hurt by this, fat or not. Alana > > > > > > These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > > > _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- on- > segway-ban/_ > > > > > <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- on- > segway-ban/_ > > > > > Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't see > > what's > > ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses a > > Segway > > to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > amusement > > park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use their > > chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a wheelchair, > > especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because Segways > can > > go > > as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that fast. > IMHO > > > > The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > > -- > > > > Guy W. > > San Leandro, CA > > http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > > " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have it, > but > > > > it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that I'm > > responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > — Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > > A FEW RULES > > > > * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs So > all > > members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > > * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, swearing..) > may > > occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate language > will > > not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian before > you > > join the list. > > > > * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the topics of > > spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > disabled. > > > > Post message: @gro ups.com > > Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 i agree totally it is not about what people use but how they use it (their behaviour) that matters. generally it is more expensive to ensure people behave in a safe and considerate manner, therefore the short cut of blanket banning things, that could help some with access, is seen as acceptable. also having been involved in greater good discussion around health care rationing in the uk i totally agree with alana that is a deeply deeply scary concept, unless you can somehow get people to see that having a humane and diverse population is indeed for the greater good rather than the model of economic growth at all costs society we live in now. it is too late in the uk for me to write coherently about this but wanted to say something, also thanks to you two moving to a calmer exchange as i was getting slightly stressed about how it was going between two people i respect greatly! cheers linda On Nov 26, 2007 1:48 AM, Alana <alrt@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > all " motorized conveyance " which some places have tried to do. Do > you not think that there has to be some limit on what people can > choose to call an assistive device? What about 4-wheelers or golf > carts? Should those be allowed? > > No, I don't think what people choose to use as assistive devices > should be limited. Golf carts are regularly used to transport > seniors and people with disabilities in airports and amusement > parks. People's behavior should be monitored. I've been injured 3 > ties at amusemet arks by baby strollers...And they weren't being > pushed by obnoxious teenagers, but oblivious or impatient parents. I > wouldn't suggest banning strollers. Anyone who's seen or used a 21st > Century wheelchair conversion knows they go upwards of 18 mph. On > campus and in the cities around here people who have used their > wheelchairs recklessly have indeed been charged appropriately. A > client of mine was charged with assault for rmming a woman with his > chair. A Segway is bout as fst as my chair. And it's smaller and > more manoeuvrable. Bust the kids who are acting up. > > By the way, arguments using " the greater good " almost always exclude > people with disabilities. This is how more costly health care for > people with disabilities is denied when many Medicaid policies are > debated. Disabled children should be allowed to die for the greater > good so they are not a burden on society. It's a slippery slope. > > I'm sorry you feel picked on, and I apologize for my tone, though, > not my content. I think you're a brilliant and generous woman and > I'm glad to know you. I want you to know I feel very picked on when > rights and access I've been fighting for over the last 25 years are > misunderstood,under valued, or casully dismissed. While obesity > itself may not be a disability, many obese people have disabilities. > My friend Pandora had crushed vertebrae and permanent nerve damage > from a fall. She could walk, but not far. I'd never deny her > admission because she was on a Segway unless she was being reckless. > And yes, I'd deny access to a wheelchair user if they were being > reckless. > > Alana > > Alana > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 It wasn't Mitch who made that statement, it was me and I tried to explain last night that I mistyped and should have been more careful about how I worded it. I wasn't trying to decide what you need or don't need. I was just trying to get inside the corporate head at Disney and think from their perspective. From there, looking at the segway it does seem (to someone who has only seen it online and read about it) to require more strength than I would expect an assistive device to require. That is my misunderstanding and I'm more than willing to listen to others with actual experience with them. I would love to be more educated. I also said that I think the larger problem is that they are trying to balance those that actually are using the segway as an assistive device against those who are using it for recreation or simple transportation purposes. They can't ask people to prove that it's being used as an assistive device because it is not PC and then they would be discriminating, but they also can't allow just anyone to rent a segway and cruise. There could be some serious liability issues there. Maybe if we weren't all so PC and easily offended they could just change the ruling from a complete ban to limited use. *** This is in no way aimed at you personally, so please don't think that it is but I HAVE to say this...... ****Are we not tired of this *entitlement* mentality? Nobody thinks that they should be questioned or have to prove anything. Speaking from the perspective of a parent here - I want my child to be a strong advocate for her NEEDS. I want her to know that if there is a TRUE discrimination that it is more than ok to not only speak up but to SCREAM about what it is that is wrong. What I don't want is for her to ever feel like just because she can't walk she's entitled to roll over people who are so afraid of being called narrow-minded or bigoted that they can't disagree with someone. I think the problem here does not lie with true advocates asking for too much - the underlying request for equality should be just a given. I think the problem lies with the FEW who want to take advantage and with those who don't ever want to have to justify. Why not question whether someone really " needs " something? Ok... someone is going to say that I sound like an insurance company. I have had to fight just as hard as y'all to get things for h because there are people who take things that they DON'T need. It got on my nerves that they wanted to call the height elevation that saved me from permanent back injury and her from possibly being dropped a " luxury " item. It has to start and stop somewhere, though. I justified the request and moved on. I don't think it's a bad concept to have those people who want to use their segways as assistive devices show justification upon entry to the park. The whole of Ontario is operating that way! Would it really hurt anyone to whip out a little card or something? I know I occasionally have to pull out my drivers license to prove that I am allowed to drive my car and that's not discrimination. Again, I know what I'm saying here is controversial and that it is going to upset someone who isn't really willing to read a differing opinion without instantly getting angry. What I'm asking is that you read carefully. I'm not asking to take anything away from anyone. I'm not trying to label anyone. I'm just saying that maybe compromise is in order in THIS situation. If you want to present another side with reasonable facts PLEASE do. I welcome information that I might not otherwise have access to. But please don't resort to angry lashing out or namecalling. That would just be counterproductive. As an aside, I'm not in a wheelchair and I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything anyway. My opinions are not formed based on my ability to walk. They are based on what I've seen and researched. My daughter is in a chair, however, and believe me we haven't gotten much of anything without a fight. I just last summer bought a van with a ramp system and nobody is paying for it but me. It was not a handout. Until then I was using portable lawnmower ramps to put her chair into the van and lifting her into the seat. There was no program that paid for the van or adaptions. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use it often. I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to stand > to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand for > hours at a time? " Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is what I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I need or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > > These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > > > > > _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- > on- > > segway-ban/_ > > > > > > > <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- disney- > on- > > segway-ban/_ > > > > > > > Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't see > > > what's > > > ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses a > > > Segway > > > to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > > amusement > > > park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > their > > > chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a wheelchair, > > > especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because Segways > > can > > > go > > > as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > fast. > > IMHO > > > > > > The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Guy W. > > > San Leandro, CA > > > http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > > > > " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have > it, > > but > > > > > > it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that > I'm > > > responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > > ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A FEW RULES > > > > > > * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs > So > > all > > > members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > > > > * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, swearing..) > > may > > > occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate language > > will > > > not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian before > > you > > > join the list. > > > > > > * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the topics > of > > > spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > disabled. > > > > > > Post message: @gro ups.com > > > Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > > Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I actually don't think we're in disagreement on much here ;0) Just so you know, I don't question people who park in spots and actually have tags. I wouldn't presume to do that. I think maybe more is being read into what I'm saying and the assumptions are upsetting people more than what I'm actually saying. I never intended to question your level of need! And you're right. I don't believe that if they are asking someone to use park owned mobility equipment instead of their own, then they should NOT be able to charge for it. I was under the impression that they were not charging. I must have misread the statement by Disney. I'll reread ;0) Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued I was agreeing with Mitch that the segway would be great for Bryce. I also agree tat you should have some proof to offer when needed. If you were to see me out in public you would never know I have a disability. I look like a thin guy nothing more. I do have a parking permit that I rarely use but when I need it I use it. If you knew how many times I have been yelled at by people for Taking and H/C parking spot. This has happened from people quick to judge who don't know what there talking about. Yes it angers me and I sure don't expect to hear it from someone who has a disabled child. I have type III and am not as severally disabled as most with SMA but I have one just the same. When I go to private property like Disney I have no problem " proving " I need this to enjoy the park. They have huge liabilities involved. But they don't have a right to tell me what I can use to walk or charge me 30.00 extra to use there scooter. > > > > > > > > > > > > These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > > _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > > > segway-ban/_ > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > > > segway-ban/_ > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > > see > > > > > what's > > > > > ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses > > a > > > > > Segway > > > > > to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > > > > amusement > > > > > park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > > > their > > > > > chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > wheelchair, > > > > > especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > Segways > > > > can > > > > > go > > > > > as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > > > fast. > > > > IMHO > > > > > > > > > > The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Guy W. > > > > > San Leandro, CA > > > > > http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > > > > > > > > " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have > > > it, > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that > > > I'm > > > > > responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > > > > ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A FEW RULES > > > > > > > > > > * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs > > > So > > > > all > > > > > members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > > > > > > > > * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > swearing..) > > > > may > > > > > occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > language > > > > will > > > > > not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > before > > > > you > > > > > join the list. > > > > > > > > > > * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > topics > > > of > > > > > spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > > > disabled. > > > > > > > > > > Post message: @gro ups.com > > > > > Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > > > > Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Jenifer I'm not sure I have the energy to respond to all the ways I disagree with you. This whole thread started when DeTannous posted that a lawsuit that was being brought against Disney World by a group of people who used Segways was " ridiculous " . I pointed out that I didn't think it was ridiculous at all. Then you made several blanket assertions about how Segways weren't assistive devices. How fat wasn't a disability. You also seem to suggest that people with disabilities asserting their rightsIt wasn't just mistyping. Like it or not in the United States one way for the minority to assert their rights is through lawsuits. There are people would like to limit the ability of some people to assert their rights through the courts. Many of these folks use a lot of the same language you're using in your post to silence us. I understand that you may not always realize what a person with a disability (especially those with disabilities you are unfamiliar with) might need to accommodate their disability. That doesn't change the fact that people may need that particular device. If Disney World was truly concerned about the speed a person could go then they could do what Alana suggested. Not allow the particular behavior to occur. You don't need to ban a vehicle to do that. You have used the term " PC " on several occasions now. It's my experience that people who accuse folks of being too " PC " use the term to silence individuals asserting their rights. If someone calls me cripple and I correct them I'm often accused of being too PC. When it's actually about me being allowed to use labels I find respectful rather than disrespectful. You also seem very concerned that people feel entitled. Well, I do feel entitled. I feel entitled to equal respect. I feel entitled to equal access. I feel entitled to equality. Alana has pointed out that there is a simple way Jenifer Woody wrote: > It wasn't Mitch who made that statement, it was me and I tried to > explain last night that I mistyped and should have been more careful > about how I worded it. I wasn't trying to decide what you need or > don't need. I was just trying to get inside the corporate head at > Disney and think from their perspective. From there, looking at the > segway it does seem (to someone who has only seen it online and read > about it) to require more strength than I would expect an assistive > device to require. That is my misunderstanding and I'm more than > willing to listen to others with actual experience with them. I would > love to be more educated. I also said that I think the larger problem > is that they are trying to balance those that actually are using the > segway as an assistive device against those who are using it for > recreation or simple transportation purposes. They can't ask people > to prove that it's being used as an assistive device because it is > not PC and then they would be discriminating, but they also can't > allow just anyone to rent a segway and cruise. There could be some > serious liability issues there. Maybe if we weren't all so PC and > easily offended they could just change the ruling from a complete ban > to limited use. *** This is in no way aimed at you personally, so > please don't think that it is but I HAVE to say this...... ****Are we > not tired of this *entitlement* mentality? Nobody thinks that they > should be questioned or have to prove anything. Speaking from the > perspective of a parent here - I want my child to be a strong > advocate for her NEEDS. I want her to know that if there is a TRUE > discrimination that it is more than ok to not only speak up but to > SCREAM about what it is that is wrong. What I don't want is for her > to ever feel like just because she can't walk she's entitled to roll > over people who are so afraid of being called narrow-minded or > bigoted that they can't disagree with someone. I think the problem > here does not lie with true advocates asking for too much - the > underlying request for equality should be just a given. I think the > problem lies with the FEW who want to take advantage and with those > who don't ever want to have to justify. Why not question whether > someone really " needs " something? Ok... someone is going to say that > I sound like an insurance company. I have had to fight just as hard > as y'all to get things for h because there are people who take > things that they DON'T need. It got on my nerves that they wanted to > call the height elevation that saved me from permanent back injury > and her from possibly being dropped a " luxury " item. It has to start > and stop somewhere, though. I justified the request and moved on. I > don't think it's a bad concept to have those people who want to use > their segways as assistive devices show justification upon entry to > the park. The whole of Ontario is operating that way! Would it really > hurt anyone to whip out a little card or something? I know I > occasionally have to pull out my drivers license to prove that I am > allowed to drive my car and that's not discrimination. Again, I know > what I'm saying here is controversial and that it is going to upset > someone who isn't really willing to read a differing opinion without > instantly getting angry. What I'm asking is that you read carefully. > I'm not asking to take anything away from anyone. I'm not trying to > label anyone. I'm just saying that maybe compromise is in order in > THIS situation. If you want to present another side with reasonable > facts PLEASE do. I welcome information that I might not otherwise > have access to. But please don't resort to angry lashing out or > namecalling. That would just be counterproductive. > > As an aside, I'm not in a wheelchair and I'm not quite sure what that > has to do with anything anyway. My opinions are not formed based on > my ability to walk. They are based on what I've seen and researched. > My daughter is in a chair, however, and believe me we haven't gotten > much of anything without a fight. I just last summer bought a van > with a ramp system and nobody is paying for it but me. It was not a > handout. Until then I was using portable lawnmower ramps to put her > chair into the van and lifting her into the seat. There was no > program that paid for the van or adaptions. > > Love and Hugs Jeni > > > > Re: Disney being sued > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use it > > > often. > > > > I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to > stand > > > to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand > > for > > > hours at a time? " > > > > Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have > > limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't > > qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is what > > > I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't > > so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I > > do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a > > wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I need > > > or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to > > believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > >>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > >>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > >>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > > >>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > > see > > >>> what's > > >>> ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses > >>> > > a > > >>> Segway > > >>> to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > >>> amusement > > >>> park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > > > their > > >>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > wheelchair, > > >>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > Segways > > >> can > > >>> go > > >>> as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > > > fast. > > >> IMHO > > > >>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Guy W. > > >>> San Leandro, CA > > >>> http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > >>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have > >>> > > > it, > > >> but > > > >>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that > >>> > > > I'm > > >>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > >>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > >>> A FEW RULES > > > >>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs > >>> > > > So > > >> all > > >>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > >>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > swearing..) > > >> may > > >>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > language > > >> will > > >>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > before > > >> you > > >>> join the list. > > > >>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > topics > > > of > > >>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > >> disabled. > > > >>> Post message: @gro ups.com > > >>> Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > >>> Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I actually said that I mistyped and that I should have had more information about how segways were being used before I spoke. I find it amazing that my words are being twisted into me trying to silence anyone. I am not trying to silence anyone or anything. I am not against anyone asserting their rights. I never said that lawsuits in general were a bad idea. What I am against (and I'm going to be extremely blunt here) is the bullshit that people throw in my face when it's convenient to their cause. I can't possibly understand because I don't have a disability, right? Ok... whatever. You're right. I don't completely understand. That's why I'm open to people telling me when I've misunderstood something! I am NOT open to being accused of things that I've never done. I really think maybe you should re-read the other posts that were neatly missed before you continue " educating " me on my shortcomings. Love and Hugs Jeni Re: Disney being sued > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use it > > > often. > > > > I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to > stand > > > to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand > > for > > > hours at a time? " > > > > Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have > > limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't > > qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is what > > > I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't > > so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I > > do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a > > wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I need > > > or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to > > believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > >>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > >>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > >>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > > >>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > > see > > >>> what's > > >>> ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses > >>> > > a > > >>> Segway > > >>> to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > >>> amusement > > >>> park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > > > their > > >>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > wheelchair, > > >>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > Segways > > >> can > > >>> go > > >>> as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > > > fast. > > >> IMHO > > > >>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Guy W. > > >>> San Leandro, CA > > >>> http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > >>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have > >>> > > > it, > > >> but > > > >>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that > >>> > > > I'm > > >>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > >>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > >>> A FEW RULES > > > >>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs > >>> > > > So > > >> all > > >>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > >>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > swearing..) > > >> may > > >>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > language > > >> will > > >>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > before > > >> you > > >>> join the list. > > > >>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > topics > > > of > > >>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > >> disabled. > > > >>> Post message: @gro ups.com > > >>> Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > >>> Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I'm sorry the following e-mail wasn't really supposed to be sent yet. So there are a few odd sentences. I'm leaving it as is because I think it's important to point out that I disagree strongly with some things that have been said whether intentionally or not. I'm probably not going to continue this conversation much longer anyway. I have a feeling that the ways we disagree are pretty fundamental. Guy W. wrote: > Jenifer I'm not sure I have the energy to respond to all the ways I > disagree with you. This whole thread started when DeTannous posted > that a lawsuit that was being brought against Disney World by a group > of people who used Segways was " ridiculous " . I pointed out that I > didn't think it was ridiculous at all. Then you made several blanket > assertions about how Segways weren't assistive devices. How fat > wasn't a disability. You also seem to suggest that people with > disabilities asserting their rightsIt wasn't just mistyping. Like it > or not in the United States one way for the minority to assert their > rights is through lawsuits. There are people would like to limit the > ability of some people to assert their rights through the courts. > Many of these folks use a lot of the same language you're using in > your post to silence us. I understand that you may not always realize > what a person with a disability (especially those with disabilities > you are unfamiliar with) might need to accommodate their disability. > That doesn't change the fact that people may need that particular > device. If Disney World was truly concerned about the speed a person > could go then they could do what Alana suggested. Not allow the > particular behavior to occur. You don't need to ban a vehicle to do > that. > > You have used the term " PC " on several occasions now. It's my > experience that people who accuse folks of being too " PC " use the > term to silence individuals asserting their rights. If someone calls > me cripple and I correct them I'm often accused of being too PC. When > it's actually about me being allowed to use labels I find respectful > rather than disrespectful. You also seem very concerned that people > feel entitled. Well, I do feel entitled. I feel entitled to equal > respect. I feel entitled to equal access. I feel entitled to > equality. > > Alana has pointed out that there is a simple way > > Jenifer Woody wrote: > > It wasn't Mitch who made that statement, it was me and I tried to > > explain last night that I mistyped and should have been more > > careful about how I worded it. I wasn't trying to decide what you > > need or don't need. I was just trying to get inside the corporate > > head at Disney and think from their perspective. From there, > > looking at the segway it does seem (to someone who has only seen it > > online and read about it) to require more strength than I would > > expect an assistive device to require. That is my misunderstanding > > and I'm more than willing to listen to others with actual > > experience with them. I would love to be more educated. I also said > > that I think the larger problem is that they are trying to balance > > those that actually are using the segway as an assistive device > > against those who are using it for recreation or simple > > transportation purposes. They can't ask people to prove that it's > > being used as an assistive device because it is not PC and then > > they would be discriminating, but they also can't allow just anyone > > to rent a segway and cruise. There could be some serious liability > > issues there. Maybe if we weren't all so PC and easily offended > > they could just change the ruling from a complete ban to limited > > use. *** This is in no way aimed at you personally, so please don't > > think that it is but I HAVE to say this...... ****Are we not tired > > of this *entitlement* mentality? Nobody thinks that they should be > > questioned or have to prove anything. Speaking from the perspective > > of a parent here - I want my child to be a strong advocate for her > > NEEDS. I want her to know that if there is a TRUE discrimination > > that it is more than ok to not only speak up but to SCREAM about > > what it is that is wrong. What I don't want is for her to ever feel > > like just because she can't walk she's entitled to roll over people > > who are so afraid of being called narrow-minded or bigoted that > > they can't disagree with someone. I think the problem here does not > > lie with true advocates asking for too much - the underlying > > request for equality should be just a given. I think the problem > > lies with the FEW who want to take advantage and with those who > > don't ever want to have to justify. Why not question whether > > someone really " needs " something? Ok... someone is going to say > > that I sound like an insurance company. I have had to fight just as > > hard as y'all to get things for h because there are people who > > take things that they DON'T need. It got on my nerves that they > > wanted to call the height elevation that saved me from permanent > > back injury and her from possibly being dropped a " luxury " item. It > > has to start and stop somewhere, though. I justified the request > > and moved on. I don't think it's a bad concept to have those people > > who want to use their segways as assistive devices show > > justification upon entry to the park. The whole of Ontario is > > operating that way! Would it really hurt anyone to whip out a > > little card or something? I know I occasionally have to pull out my > > drivers license to prove that I am allowed to drive my car and > > that's not discrimination. Again, I know what I'm saying here is > > controversial and that it is going to upset someone who isn't > > really willing to read a differing opinion without instantly > > getting angry. What I'm asking is that you read carefully. I'm not > > asking to take anything away from anyone. I'm not trying to label > > anyone. I'm just saying that maybe compromise is in order in THIS > > situation. If you want to present another side with reasonable > > facts PLEASE do. I welcome information that I might not otherwise > > have access to. But please don't resort to angry lashing out or > > namecalling. That would just be counterproductive. > > > > As an aside, I'm not in a wheelchair and I'm not quite sure what > > that has to do with anything anyway. My opinions are not formed > > based on my ability to walk. They are based on what I've seen and > > researched. My daughter is in a chair, however, and believe me we > > haven't gotten much of anything without a fight. I just last summer > > bought a van with a ramp system and nobody is paying for it but me. > > It was not a handout. Until then I was using portable lawnmower > > ramps to put her chair into the van and lifting her into the seat. > > There was no program that paid for the van or adaptions. > > > > Love and Hugs Jeni > > > > > > > > Re: Disney being sued > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use > > it > > > > > > often. > > > > > > > > I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to > > stand > > > >> to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand > > for > > > >> hours at a time? " > > > > > > Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have > > > > limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't > > > > qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is > > what > > > > > > I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't > > > > > > so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I > > > > > > do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a > > > > wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I > > need > > > > > > or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to > > > > > > believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > >>>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > >> on- > >>> segway-ban/_ > > > >>>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > >> on- > >>> segway-ban/_ > > > > >>>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > >>>> > > see > > > >>>> what's ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs > >>>> and uses > >>>> > > a > > > >>>> Segway to cover long distances. Which seems particularly > >>>> likely at an amusement park like Disney World. Why shouldn't > >>>> they be allowed to use > >> their > >>>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > wheelchair, > > > >>>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > Segways > > > >>> can > >>>> go as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go > >>>> that > >> fast. > >>> IMHO > > > >>>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > >>>> -- > > > >>>> Guy W. San Leandro, CA http://www.xango. org > >>>> http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > >>>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I > >>>> have > >>>> > >> it, > >>> but > > > >>>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception > >>>> that > >>>> > >> I'm > >>>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > >>>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > >>>> A FEW RULES > > > >>>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and > >>>> beliefs > >>>> > >> So > >>> all > >>>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > >>>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > swearing..) > > > >>> may > >>>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > language > > > >>> will > >>>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > before > > > >>> you > >>>> join the list. > > > >>>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > topics > > > >> of > >>>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > >>> disabled. > > > >>>> Post message: @gro ups.com Subscribe: > >>>> -subscrib egroups (DOT) com Unsubscribe: > >>>> -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Although I can see how you might think I was accusing you of silencing me. I very carefully said that people (not specifically you) who use language like, " too PC " are using the term to silence people like me. How do you think I should respond when asserting my rights is called being " too PC " ? No, you didn't say that lawsuits were generally a bad idea, but you do seem to think that the Disney World lawsuit is or have you changed your mind? Exactly what " bullshit " am I throwing in your face to support my cause? I haven't said that you couldn't possibly understand because you're not disabled. In this particular conversation I'm not trying to educate you. I'm specifically disagreeing with you. Let me be very clear. I think that the Disney World lawsuit is about people who have a legitimate gripe against Disney World. I believe that just because some people may take advantage of disability rights does not mean that we should suspect all people with disabilities out faking or not really needing the accommodation they use. I would much rather assume that people are asking for what they need. Not that this has anything to do with this group, but I also think that a person's size is a much much more complicated issue than people would like to think. Personally, I think the ADA as originally intended included obesity as a disability. After all there are many metabolic diseases that result in weight gain. There are lots of disabilities that limit an individual's ability to exercise and therefore can result in weight gain. I understand that the courts have decided that obesity is not a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act but again in my opinion the courts have made decisions completely against the intent of the law. They have in fact " modified " the law to the extent that it is largely not doing what it was originally intended to do. Which is why there is a bill going through Congress trying to correct the blatant misinterpretation of the law. Jenifer Woody wrote: > I actually said that I mistyped and that I should have had more information about how segways were being used before I spoke. > I find it amazing that my words are being twisted into me trying to silence anyone. I am not trying to silence anyone or anything. I am not against anyone asserting their rights. I never said that lawsuits in general were a bad idea. What I am against (and I'm going to be extremely blunt here) is the bullshit that people throw in my face when it's convenient to their cause. I can't possibly understand because I don't have a disability, right? Ok... whatever. You're right. I don't completely understand. That's why I'm open to people telling me when I've misunderstood something! I am NOT open to being accused of things that I've never done. > I really think maybe you should re-read the other posts that were neatly missed before you continue " educating " me on my shortcomings. > > Love and Hugs > Jeni > > > > > Re: Disney being sued >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use it >> >> >> often. >> >> >> >> I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to >> stand >> >> >>> to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand >>> >> for >> >> >>> hours at a time? " >>> >> >> Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have >> >> limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't >> >> qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is what >> >> >> I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't >> >> so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I >> >> do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a >> >> wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I need >> >> >> or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to >> >> believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. >>>>>> >> >>>>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- >>>>> >> disney- >> >> >>> on- >>> >>>> segway-ban/_ >>>> >> >>>>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- >>>>> >> disney- >> >> >>> on- >>> >>>> segway-ban/_ > >>>> >> >>>>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't >>>>> >> see >> >> >>>>> what's >>>>> >>>>> ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses >>>>> >>>>> >> a >> >> >>>>> Segway >>>>> >>>>> to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an >>>>> >>>>> amusement >>>>> >>>>> park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use >>>>> >>> their >>> >>>>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a >>>>> >> wheelchair, >> >> >>>>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because >>>>> >> Segways >> >> >>>> can >>>> >>>>> go >>>>> >>>>> as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that >>>>> >>> fast. >>> >>>> IMHO >>>> >> >>>>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >>>>> >> >>>>> Guy W. >>>>> >>>>> San Leandro, CA >>>>> >>>>> http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ >>>>> >> >>>>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have >>>>> >>>>> >>> it, >>> >>>> but >>>> >> >>>>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that >>>>> >>>>> >>> I'm >>> >>>>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " >>>>> >>>>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> A FEW RULES >>>>> >> >>>>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs >>>>> >>>>> >>> So >>> >>>> all >>>> >>>>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. >>>>> >> >>>>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, >>>>> >> swearing..) >> >> >>>> may >>>> >>>>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate >>>>> >> language >> >> >>>> will >>>> >>>>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian >>>>> >> before >> >> >>>> you >>>> >>>>> join the list. >>>>> >> >>>>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the >>>>> >> topics >> >> >>> of >>> >>>>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the >>>>> >>>> disabled. >>>> >> >>>>> Post message: @gro ups.com >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com >>>>> >> >>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Derar Jenifer, Thank you for your reasonable and common sense approach to this discussion. As I read along the various entries, it seems to me those in opposition to your view are upset and looking for an outlet. I'm sorry you were the outlet. I am disabled and have been for some time. However, I resent it when others who are disabled are looking for an injustice to dwell on. I'm not saying there are not injustices. I am saying let's not be so dead set on finding them. Let's spend our effort and energy finding solutions. Thank you. Beth Re: Disney being sued > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use it > > > often. > > > > I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to > stand > > > to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand > > for > > > hours at a time? " > > > > Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have > > limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't > > qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is what > > > I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't > > so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I > > do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a > > wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I need > > > or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to > > believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > >>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > >>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > >>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > disney- > > > on- > > >> segway-ban/_ > > > > >>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > > see > > >>> what's > > >>> ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and uses > >>> > > a > > >>> Segway > > >>> to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at an > > >>> amusement > > >>> park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > > > their > > >>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > wheelchair, > > >>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > Segways > > >> can > > >>> go > > >>> as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > > > fast. > > >> IMHO > > > >>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Guy W. > > >>> San Leandro, CA > > >>> http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > >>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I have > >>> > > > it, > > >> but > > > >>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception that > >>> > > > I'm > > >>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > > >>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > >>> A FEW RULES > > > >>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and beliefs > >>> > > > So > > >> all > > >>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > >>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > swearing..) > > >> may > > >>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > language > > >> will > > >>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > before > > >> you > > >>> join the list. > > > >>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > topics > > > of > > >>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > >> disabled. > > > >>> Post message: @gro ups.com > > >>> Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > >>> Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Maybe this is the wrong place for me. I'm a lifelong disability rights advocate. I've spent 30 plus years working for equal rights. I spent a lot of energy helping get the Americans with Disabilities Act passed. I don't believe I'm looking for an outlet. I've got plenty. Yes, I'm angry with Jenifer's position (at least as far as I understand it), but I'm not sure how disagreeing with someone is such a horrible thing. Yes, we do need to look for solutions and be constructive. In my opinion standing up for one's rights is being constructive. I used to have a service dog that helped me. This was before the ADA. When the only law about service dogs was at the state level but hardly anybody knew about the law. I was often not allowed into restaurants etc. Even though state law required access for service dogs. Was I looking for an outlet for my anger when I wrote letters to the owners of the places that denied me access? Do you really think it's not constructive to defend one's rights or even sue for them? Beth Carollo wrote: > > Derar Jenifer, Thank you for your reasonable and common sense > approach to this discussion. As I read along the various entries, it > seems to me those in opposition to your view are upset and looking > for an outlet. I'm sorry you were the outlet. I am disabled and have > been for some time. However, I resent it when others who are disabled > are looking for an injustice to dwell on. I'm not saying there are > not injustices. I am saying let's not be so dead set on finding them. > Let's spend our effort and energy finding solutions. Thank you. Beth > Re: Disney being sued > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. I am Type III and I have a Segway. I use > > it > > > > > > often. > > > > > > > > I saw this question " Am I incorrect in thinking that you have to > > stand > > > >> to use those? How much can you really " need " it if you can stand > > > > for > > > >> hours at a time? " > > > > > > > > Well i don't stand for hours. You take breaks when needed. I have > > > > limited space in my car and can fit my segway very well. I don't > > > > qualify to have a wheelchair and a lift bought for me so this is > > what > > > > > > I use. it is fair that you may get these items paid for and I can't > > > > > > so I have to use something different. I can stand and I can walk. I > > > > > > do need help when i go to a big park though and just bc your in a > > > > wheel chair that you need doesn't mean you should decide what I > > need > > > > > > or don't need. I got a little strong worded there but it is hard to > > > > > > believe a disabled person would question ME if I need something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> These kind of lawsuits are getting ridiculous. > > > > > >>>> _http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > > > disney- > > > >> on- > > > >>> segway-ban/_ > > > > > >>>> <http://www.gadling. com/2007/ 11/12/disabled- guests-sue- > > > > disney- > > > >> on- > > > >>> segway-ban/_ > > > > > > >>>> Why do you say that? From what I read in the article, I don't > >>>> > > > > see > > > >>>> what's > > > >>>> ridiculous. If a person person with a disability needs and > >>>> uses > >>>> > > > > a > > > >>>> Segway > > > >>>> to cover long distances. Which seems particularly likely at > >>>> an > > > >>>> amusement > > > >>>> park like Disney World. Why shouldn't they be allowed to use > > > >> their > > > >>>> chosen assistive device? Not everyone wants to use a > > > > wheelchair, > > > >>>> especially if they can walk some. Disney says its because > > > > Segways > > > >>> can > > > >>>> go > > > >>>> as fast as 12 mph. I know power wheelchairs that can go that > > > >> fast. > > > >>> IMHO > > > > > >>>> The lawsuit isn't obviously ridiculous. > > > > > >>>> -- > > > > > >>>> Guy W. > > > >>>> San Leandro, CA > > > >>>> http://www.xango. org http://stonebender. livejournal. com/ > > > > > >>>> " I have no discernible guilt about having het privilege. I > >>>> have > >>>> > > > >> it, > > > >>> but > > > > > >>>> it's not my fault that I do. It is, however, my perception > >>>> that > >>>> > > > >> I'm > > > >>>> responsible for trying to spread the privilege around a bit. " > >>>> > > > >>>> ⤠" Serene Vannoy, on being out as bi, poly and atheist > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> A FEW RULES > > > > > >>>> * The list members come from many backgrounds, ages and > >>>> beliefs > >>>> > > > >> So > > > >>> all > > > >>>> members most be tolerant and respectful to all members. > > > > > >>>> * Some adult language and topics (like sexual health, > > > > swearing..) > > > >>> may > > > >>>> occur occasionally in emails. Over use of inappropriate > > > > language > > > >>> will > > > >>>> not be allowed. If your under 16 ask your parents/gaurdian > > > > before > > > >>> you > > > >>>> join the list. > > > > > >>>> * No SPAMMING or sending numerous emails unrelated to the > > > > topics > > > >> of > > > >>>> spinal muscular atrophy, health, and the daily issues of the > > > >>> disabled. > > > > > >>>> Post message: @gro ups.com > > > >>>> Subscribe: -subscrib egroups (DOT) com > > > >>>> Unsubscribe: -unsubscr ibegroups (DOT) com > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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