RE: Re: MD response to Dinah DOES have pertussis

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Yes, there are good doctors, and you may be one of them. But in the almost

8 years we've been in this autism nightmare, they have been desperately few

and far between. Routinely, we are belittled and cast aside by doctors in

every specialty who can't see past the autism dx. Not even when we show

proof of disease and talk really slow.

I believe it's the foundation of medicine - the medical schools teaching

outdated material; whoever teaches doctors that they are automatically

smarter than all parents just for the MD after their name despite the

contrary being true in a lot of cases and that doctors have the right, and

seemingly the duty, to dismiss anything they weren't taught in med school or

told by a pharma rep; the insurance industry forcing too many appointments

to provide actual " care " ; the drug industry that puts profits ahead of

patients. Mostly I guess doctors come off as the villains in this list for

several reasons.

- they are the paid " caregivers " to the child

- they say " trust us, we know better "

- the system gives us access only to them - not the pharma rep, not the med

school teachers, not the insurance companies (who's practices are always set

by someone with an MD after their name)

So, while there may be some good doctors out there, the system keeps

churning out more bad ones on a daily basis. I will never feel total trust

in another medical professional again after what I have learned from autism.

The part where you list the trials and tribulations for a pittance pay will

be easily lost here, on us parents, for we, too, go through similar trials

and tribulations with our own kids FOR NO MONEY. We don't get to pay off

the loans by making a 6 figure salary (just ask my credit card companies!) -

not even 10 years down the road. And we get to go to medical school too,

just not the nice ones that come with an MD after 8 years. We go to med

school because doctors don't pay attention, and most, clearly don't care,

even when it's handed to them (for those of us who've spent summer breaks

learning peptide synthesis, bacteriology, immunology, etc, you all know what

I mean). We have sleepless nights every night worrying that our child has

broken a window and left the house and fear his drowning in a nearby lake or

pool, getting shot as an intruder at a neighbor's house, getting hit by a

car, freezing to death. According to our numerous anecdotal polls, 60% of

ASD moms end up dxd with an autoimmune disease within 5 years of their child

getting dxd with autism, so most of us risk our health too. When our kids

are sick, we spend every second watching over them, holding a mirror under

their nose to make sure they are still breathing. We get to worry that they

ate a piece of cheese and ended up in the ER with seizures from it. And we

get to do it every single day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a

year FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. We don't get to go on vacation from it, we

get to worry about it every day until we die.

And the help we get from the medical establishment is so very little in

comparison that it's hard for any of us to put our broke, tired, scared

selves in the well-paid, unlocked-door, vacation and retirement shoes of

most doctors. It just ain't going to happen. Certainly not until we get

some real help from doctors, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

Holly

>

> I have lost my patience with you all. You criticize doctors

in the most pegorative terms and paint us as ignorant buffoons who

care nothing about your children. You create adversarial

relationships with us because you think we are the enemy. I am a

s Hopkins-educated physican specializing in family medicine and,

though, I have met many doctors who lack understanding and bed-side

manner (probably because they're autistic too), I have never met one

who didn't care, who didn't spend sleepless nights thinking of or

caring for his or her patients.

>

> Let me assure you that physicians care. We would not endure

that which we do if we did not. Perhaps if you would make an effort

to understand us you would have more positive experiences with us.

>

> We go to school for no less than 8 years after highschool.

During medical school we rely on the knowledge, skills and wisdom of

our professors, our mentors to build us up after the rigors of

school have deconstructed us. Then we have 3 years (at least) of

post-graduate training. While in training we participate in at

least three educational conferences a day in addition to caring for

our patients. We jump through firey hoops at all hours of the day

and night. We work 80 to 120 hours a week for very little pay ( as

little as $5.60 per hour). You try resuscitating a newborn in the

middle of the night while you have to take care of a patient

crashing in the ICU and the family of the brain-dead teenage mother

who OD'd. HAve you had a nine-month old baby die in your arms and

then have to go home after two or three hours of sleep (if you are

lucky) to your own family with its own set of unique needs.

>

> During medical school and our first year of residency training

we pass three standardized national medical board exams each of

which is 7 to 8 hours long and for which we study for months. Once

we are done with residency, we have to pass our specialty

certification boards. Some of us have to practice for a couple of

years before we can even take them.

>

> Once we are done with residency and we are in practice we start

repaying our loans. I didn't have to pay for undergrad and I had a

scholarship for med school tuition and I started my career with

$85,000 in educational loan debt, a pittance compared to the debt of

some.

>

> In practice, we are mandated to see as many as 40 patients a

day. Why? Because medicare and insurance payments are going down;

medicaid rarely sends a check; health care expense are increasing;

insurance costs and other employee benefits have skyrocketed and we

physicians have to see more patients, do more paperwork, answer to

insurance companies that question our every medical move in order to

support our families and pay our staff.

>

> So we work endlessly; put our own health at risk; incur huge

amounts of debt while our classmates have gone of to become bank

presidents; study relentlessly; ask our families to sacrifice right

along with us all because we are stupid and don't care?

>

> Now let's look at the World of Autism. Research of autism is in

its infancy - it is 20 years old. Until the late 1990s, there

weren't a lot of autistic people to study. Every autisitc child is

unique - predicatably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent

unlike Downs children who all have several shared characteristics.

Autism manifests itself in a million different ways. How do

researchers reliably study such an enigma?

>

> Now, remember we doctors have been trained by other doctors -

doctors who are older than us, doctors who have had little orr no

experience with autism. The missions of our educators is to teach

us that which will serve the most people in the best way possible

using evidenced-based medicine. Also recall, we spend thousands of

hours in residency caring for hospitalized patients and those who

are poor, indigent, underserved by the rest of the world while we

are studying new advances in medicine and preparing for our exams

and looking for real jobs and starting families. Then, when we are

employed we work 60 hours a week so that we can pay the bills

because the government and big business won't pay us what we are

worth.

>

> So, the World of Autism knows little about autism because

research has really juist begun. Medical educators know little

about autism because research has just begun. Physicians, whose job

it is to treat or help treat patients, have no definitive treatment

for autism.

>

> Most of you parents spend hours upon hours every week

researching this topic, finding some good studies, some flawed

studies, anecdotal evidence, inflammatory and insulting comments

because you have to care for your autistic family member(s).

Docotrs spend hours every week doing the same but we have thousands

of patients with hundreds of problems, only one of which is autism.

>

> I am a doctor but more importantly I am the mother of two

autistic children. I believe that autism is caused by a gene that

is unmasked by some other exposure, likely environmental. I do

believe that immunizations and mercury contribute to the problem

likely by doing the unmasking. I also know that vaccines have saved

the lives of millions of people and reduced the suffering of the

world on a large scale.

[Guest guest]

At 08:33 PM 1/18/2006 +0000, annalily2005 wrote:

>I find it a little funny and quite ironinc that you chose to post

>your rant against parents of kids with autism who criticize doctors

>in direct response to a mother's story of her doctor's incompetence

>in diagnosing AND treating pertussis, even when that mother told the

>doctor she believed it was pertussis.

Actually, I never did tell the doctor that we felt it was pertussis. My

husband diagnosed what we had after I'd seen her a few times and she had

told me I had asthma or copd (she never did explain why everyone in my

family came down with asthma or copd all at the same time). And then after

our coughs all went away three months after they started, I never did go

back to that doctor. So in all fairness maybe she would have been open to

what my husband discovered, if I had ever brought it up with her. But I

just never really had any reason to.

[Guest guest]

> According to our numerous anecdotal polls, 60% of

>ASD moms end up dxd with an autoimmune disease within 5 years of their child

>getting dxd with autism, so most of us risk our health too. When our kids

>are sick, we spend every second watching over them, holding a mirror under

>their nose to make sure they are still breathing. We get to worry that they

>ate a piece of cheese and ended up in the ER with seizures from it. And we

>get to do it every single day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a

>year FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. We don't get to go on vacation from it, we

>get to worry about it every day until we die.

If sixty percent of asd moms are coming down with some autoimmune disease

within five years of a child being diagnosed with autism, I would say it

seems to me it's as likely the genetic link as it is stress related.

Although I certainly wouldn't rule out that it could be both.

Robin

(Somewhat regretting her recent hissy fit. Cause one of her most admired

autistic acquaintances once said 'when life gives you lemons, make

lemonade'. And hissy fits are just sour. sorry.)

[Guest guest]

Or, what if they give it to us - via bacteria, virus, etc........?

RE: Re: MD response to Dinah DOES have pertussis

> According to our numerous anecdotal polls, 60% of

>ASD moms end up dxd with an autoimmune disease within 5 years of their

child

>getting dxd with autism, so most of us risk our health too. When our kids

>are sick, we spend every second watching over them, holding a mirror under

>their nose to make sure they are still breathing. We get to worry that

they

>ate a piece of cheese and ended up in the ER with seizures from it. And we

>get to do it every single day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a

>year FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. We don't get to go on vacation from it, we

>get to worry about it every day until we die.

If sixty percent of asd moms are coming down with some autoimmune disease

within five years of a child being diagnosed with autism, I would say it

seems to me it's as likely the genetic link as it is stress related.

Although I certainly wouldn't rule out that it could be both.

Robin

(Somewhat regretting her recent hissy fit. Cause one of her most admired

autistic acquaintances once said 'when life gives you lemons, make

lemonade'. And hissy fits are just sour. sorry.)

[Guest guest]

Amen to that Holly,

I was just complain to my mother that my grades in my grad school program

are suffering b/c RIGHT NOW I am " back in medical school "

I think as long as we could pass the boards we should be able to get an MD

whether we " went " to school for it or not.

Ah! the days of hanging out shingles... I bet we had a higher percentage of

good doctors back then...

I would at least like to turn in all my work for a grade somewhere!!!!!

Where is my 6 figure salary! Where is yours?

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed the radiologist I used to work for

but I'd get bitter when I was the one making $jack,shit,peryear and he was

making over 400K --I worked a 40 hour weekend and worked it very hard to

make sure HE got the weekend break he deserved. To make sure he only got

called in when absolutely necessary.

And I did this happily b/c HE deserved it. But of all the doctors I know he

was rare.

Morale of the story, if you want to be a happy doctor who makes enough money

to pay back your loans become a radiologist ROFL

RE: Re: MD response to Dinah DOES have pertussis

> Kathleen,

>

> Yes, there are good doctors,...

[Guest guest]

i spoke to a nurse whose 2 fully vaccinated daughters caught w.c. she said the doc refused to admit they had it, saying ''vaccinated children don't get w.c.'' the nurse also told me her daughter had a severe reaction to her dtp shot.Debi <fightingautism@...> wrote: I told the nurse all 3 times and the doctor twice that I suspected pertussis. The reason I didn't the first time is simple. I wanted to see if he would give her a diagnosis based on clinical symptoms or on vaccine record paranoia. Evidently I was correct, but then again, he never checked her records to see her health history, rofl, which isn't supposed to be done in medicine, right? Debi > >I find it a little funny and quite ironinc that you chose to post > >your rant against parents of kids with autism who criticize doctors > >in direct response to a mother's story of her doctor's incompetence > >in diagnosing AND treating pertussis, even when that mother told the > >doctor she believed it was pertussis. > > Actually, I never did tell the doctor that we felt it was pertussis. My > husband diagnosed what we had after I'd seen her a few times and she had > told me I had asthma or copd (she never did explain why everyone in my > family came down with asthma or copd all at the same time). And then after > our coughs all went away three months after they started, I never did go > back to that doctor. So in all fairness maybe she would have been open to > what my husband discovered, if I had ever brought it up with

her. But I > just never really had any reason to. >

Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Guest guest]

no. Spelling wasn't even formalized until 1800 or so.

The English language is one of the oddest when it comes to spelling and many brilliant people are poor spellers.

What concerns me is that a mom, a caring hard working professional... has been lambasted , rec'd a triple whammy

from her chosen group of professionals in the lack of integrity

represented in *some* of her colleagues and mentors.

It's easy to see the anguish for her children in the

post, and dismay at working so hard and being so let down.

I just wish she'd encoded my post differently.

I wish she'd seen herself in the words

"our doctor did" (she was an extremely talented

diagnostician) rather than the idiots who can't diagnose.

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "" <rjcj4373@...> > Is anyone else out there concerned that a medical professional with so > many years of education cannot spell???? > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

on 1/19/06 2:01 PM, Debi at fightingautism@... wrote:

I'm not offended by someone saying that a given disorder, like autism,

is genetic, so long as there's proof. There's just as much

scientifically-valid proof of thimerosal/mercury poisoning as the

cause as there is genetic evidence, yet these same people who claim

genes state there's no evidence to support mercury as causal. Either

you stand by your methodology or you don't, we can't pick and choose

because one sounds better or is less stressful or painful to consider

than the other.

Debi

I was at a panel discussion with Kirby and a genetics guy from the local university. The genetics guy even said " it's not purely genetic. There is some environmental factors " .

-

[Guest guest]

No. They are not English majors to boot. That is the least of my concern.

Re: MD response to Dinah DOES have pertussis

Is anyone else out there concerned that a medical professional with so many years of education cannot spell????

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/234 - Release Date: 1/18/06

[Guest guest]

Before I begin...may I state it's very very extremely kewl that Evidence Of Harm, by Kirby will be available in paper back.

I already have friends 'chompin at the bit' to read it!

Now if I may carry on "off topically " in reply to and the rest-

Why I Flunked English...

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes;

But the plural of ox became oxen not oxes.

One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,

yet the plural of moose should never be meese.

You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice;

yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,

why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?

If I spoke of my foot and show you my feet,

and I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?

If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,

why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,

yet hat in the plural would never be hose,

and the plural of cat is cats, not cose.

We speak of a brother and also of brethren,

but though we say mother, we never say methren.

Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,

but imagine the feminine, she, shis and shim.

Some other reasons to be grateful if you grew up speaking English:

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to

present the present.

8) At the Army base, a bass was painted on the head of a bass drum.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.

18) After a number of Novocain injections, my jaw got number.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

22) I spent last evening evening out a pile of dirt.

Screwy pronunciations can mess up your mind! For example... If you have

a

rough cough, climbing can be tough when going through the bough on a

tree!

Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in

eggplant nor

ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins

weren't invented in England.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find

that

quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is

neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't

groce

and hammers don't ham?

Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend?

If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of

them,

what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think all the folks who grew up speaking English should be

committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?

Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?

Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man

and a

wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your

house

can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it

out and

in which an alarm goes off by going on.

If Dad is Pop, how's come Mom isn't Mop?

Just passing this on to a few of you who I figured would find this

amusing,

and just for the record, I personally didn't flunk English.

-------------- Original message -------------- From: " Nanstiel" <erik@...> > That's true. I know many very smart people who are terrible spellers. My > grandfather was > an engineer for westinghouse... he was a genius. Couldn't spell. > > My father, a brilliant artist and multi-talented jack of many trades (who could > paint a > portrait, write a poem about it and set it to music...all the while designing > and building a > room addition with a curved staircase...can't spell either. Or cook, > unfortunately! > > > > > > > > > no. Spelling wasn't even formalized until 1800 or so. > > The English language is one of the oddest when it comes to spelling and many > brilliant > people are poor spellers. > > > > > > > > > >