RE: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

[Guest guest]

Sounds very negative to me. If god is torturing us by giving us SMA....whats

he doing torturing everyone in the world that isnt perfect?! whats a perfect

and normal life and what exactly is torture?

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

How is a 'supreme being damaging society as a whole? that is a broad

statement.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

I still don't understand why a God who gives his children adversity is sick.

That's what parents do. Parents make their kids eat their vegetables, and go

to bed early, and take baths, and swallow medicine, and go to school, and

walk across the floor, even when they fall and hit their heads and cry. When

you're a little kid, these things seem so torturous and mean, but as an adult,

we know that obviously our parents had to do that to us so that we could grow

up. We're just little itty bitty mortal children, and our omnipotent,

omniscient Heavenly Father knows what's good for us on a much bigger scale. And

just

like our parents, he holds our hands and helps us through the adversity. I

know that we all have different beliefs on the purpose of life and all that,

but I just don't understand why this is considered disturbing.

Sometimes I don't know what I was thinking when I checked the SMA box (and I

don't really think it was like that, but we'll go with the metaphor). Maybe

my other choices were mail-order bride, starving AIDS victim in Africa,

homeless orphan in Brazil, or rich beautiful person who didn't have anyone who

actually cared about her or anything she cared about. I'd still choose my life

over most other people in the world, if somebody gave me a box to check.

-e

In a message dated 1/5/2006 5:07:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

anna.quay@... writes:

My point is, God does not give people SMA, and the concept that God is

giving people diseases seems to cast God as some sort of torturer, which

is sick IMO. I could never believe God could hurt me.

Nick

[Guest guest]

My point is, God does not give people SMA, and the concept that God is

giving people diseases seems to cast God as some sort of torturer, which

is sick IMO. I could never believe God could hurt me.

Nick

heaven20seven@... wrote:

>Sounds very negative to me. If god is torturing us by giving us SMA....whats

>he doing torturing everyone in the world that isnt perfect?! whats a perfect

>and normal life and what exactly is torture?

>

>

>j e s s ! c a

>personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok...in your opinion, lets say there isnt a god. Where does the 'torture'

come from? How is SMA torture?

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:21:38 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

anna.quay@... writes:

not only do we not need 'god' to create our very own heaven on earth, but

that achieving that would be easier without 'him' in his various guises.

I believe if there werent a god there would be no heaven or earth. You

believe in heaven? how do you create a heaven that you dont believe in? and you

do

it alone, all by yourself?

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

its for nick.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

if there wasn't adversity what would there be? and why did you use the word

heaven to mean 'a fair and peaceful place?'

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

interesting to use that word in this controversal convo.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

more power to ya,sista.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

my point is that god does not exist and that the concept of 'a supreme being' is

damaging to society as a whole and disproportionately more so for those already

disadvantaged such as disabled people.

linda

Re: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

My point is, God does not give people SMA, and the concept that God is

giving people diseases seems to cast God as some sort of torturer, which

is sick IMO. I could never believe God could hurt me.

Nick

heaven20seven@... wrote:

>Sounds very negative to me. If god is torturing us by giving us SMA....whats

>he doing torturing everyone in the world that isnt perfect?! whats a perfect

>and normal life and what exactly is torture?

>

>

>j e s s ! c a

>personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are you comparing crucifixition to sma?!

Click here to see my _Slide Show!!!_

(http://rockmyspace.com/viewslideshow.php?instanceid=2452429 & refid=2452429) .

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

in the email i just sent i quoted a line " religious conflict and bigotry are

increasingly centre stage " . so if we agree with that from looking around the

world i would say that was damaging society as a whole. in relation to

disability it is always the case that disabled people suffer so much more in

conflict situations. you only have to look how disabled people faired when the

twin towers were attacked.

my inital point about 'religion is the opium of the masses' is also relevent to

this.

i felt your earlier point was very good about the real question being do we

believe in ourselves.

i dont intend to post more about this subject. obviously 'god' works for some of

you. however my personal opinion is that not only do we not need 'god' to create

our very own heaven on earth, but that achieving that would be easier without

'him' in his various guises.

linda

Re: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

How is a 'supreme being damaging society as a whole? that is a broad

statement.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

if this question is for me i personally have never linked sma to torture

linda

Re: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

Ok...in your opinion, lets say there isnt a god. Where does the 'torture'

come from? How is SMA torture?

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

i believe we can create a 'heaven' on earth ourselves through shaping a more

just society where diversity is celebrated. i was using the term 'heaven' to

mean a fair and peaceful place.

Re: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:21:38 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

anna.quay@... writes:

not only do we not need 'god' to create our very own heaven on earth, but

that achieving that would be easier without 'him' in his various guises.

I believe if there werent a god there would be no heaven or earth. You

believe in heaven? how do you create a heaven that you dont believe in? and

you do

it alone, all by yourself?

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

she was using " heaven " to describe something lovely, such as 'a fair

and peaceful place'. it's a word that can be used in many ways to

describe desirable things, much like if one might say, " oh, my...the

music was heavenly, " or " i'm in heaven now that blah blah has happened. "

>

> if there wasn't adversity what would there be? and why did you use

the word

> heaven to mean 'a fair and peaceful place?'

> j e s s ! c a

>

> personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ok jessica you have caught me out, despite everything i have said i am in fact a

nun ;-)

Re: Re: A thought/question regarding religion & SMA/nick

interesting to use that word in this controversal convo.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

[Guest guest]

Neuromuscular disease can be very painful. I was referring to Lori

Martz's SMA as crucifixion metaphor---very powerful. Pretty similar in

paralysis of limbs and breathing. Crucifixion is torture.

We withstand it, we thrive, we falter, we're human. But.....

My strong feeling is that " God is love " isn't compatible with " God hurts

me to teach me / others. " That was my point that no one seemed to get.

Nick

heaven20seven@... wrote:

>its for nick.

>

>j e s s ! c a

>

>personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I figure whether God exists or not is up to him. Me wrestling with it

won't help. So I vasicallate between complete agnosticism, and my own

brand of humanistic Judaism / deism with a thread of pantheism (God is

in everything) mixed in. I'm totally comfortable with all sides.

I will probably never fully know all the mysteries of God. But I know

what he isn't, and that is the cause of suffering.

Nick

Lind@ wrote:

>my point is that god does not exist and that the concept of 'a supreme being'

is damaging to society as a whole and disproportionately more so for those

already disadvantaged such as disabled people.

>

>linda

>

>

[Guest guest]

And here, I thought SMA was genetic and that my parents were to *blame* for

carrying the genes from which I *won* the SMA lottery ;-) I don't blame

anyone and I certainly don't blame my parents who didn't know about SMA.

I'm not religious. We do the best we can with what we have, just as anyone

else would do. We either sink or swim....It's not an easy life with SMA.

Every day is a new adventure in continuing to find ways to keep our mobility

and independence. New aches and pains are always just around the corner (

especially when you run into door jams!! )

I don't feel blessed or cursed with this condition. I except it and try to

deal with it as best I can on a daily basis. I have good days and bad days.

Sometimes I do ask why me? The answer is luck of the draw.

Take care

Bye for now

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1391/index.html

[Guest guest]

no, Lori is

heaven20seven@... wrote:

>Are you comparing crucifixition to sma?!

>

>

>Click here to see my _Slide Show!!!_

>(http://rockmyspace.com/viewslideshow.php?instanceid=2452429 & refid=2452429) .

>

>j e s s ! c a

>

>personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You sound so certain of that... You do have your own opinion, and so do

others. However, I'll choose to believe there is a " supreme being "

because the concept of all this coming out of nothingness is absurd to

me. If I look at a building, I know there was a designer and a builder.

This universe is far more complex and intricately balanced then any

building ever has been, is now, nor ever will be. If I believe that

someone designed and built the building, why would I believe that this

creation happened all by itself. Though I don't see the designer of the

building, I would be foolish to think it built itself...and fit itself

all together just right. If the chemical balance in this universe was

even slightly different, no life could exist. All it takes is the human

eye to convince me. Like Dr. Huse says:

" Furnished with automatic aiming, automatic focusing, and automatic

aperture adjustment, the human eye can function from almost complete

darkness to bright sunlight, see an object the diameter of a fine hair,

and make about 100,000 separate motions in an average day, faithfully

affording us a continuous series of color stereoscopic pictures. All of

this is performed usually without complaint, and then while we sleep ,

it carries out its own maintenance work. "

It takes a lot of faith to see that as happening by chance!

Besides, world-renown crusader for Darwinism, Professor Dawkins

states:

" We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully

" designed " to have come into existence by chance. "

So, I'll keep believing in a creator.

Jay

Re: A thought/question regarding religion &

SMA/nick

my point is that god does not exist and that the concept of 'a supreme

being' is damaging to society as a whole and disproportionately more so

for those already disadvantaged such as disabled people.

linda

Re: A thought/question regarding religion &

SMA/nick

My point is, God does not give people SMA, and the concept that God is

giving people diseases seems to cast God as some sort of torturer,

which

is sick IMO. I could never believe God could hurt me.

Nick

heaven20seven@... wrote:

>Sounds very negative to me. If god is torturing us by giving us

SMA....whats

>he doing torturing everyone in the world that isnt perfect?! whats a

perfect

>and normal life and what exactly is torture?

>

>

>j e s s ! c a

>personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

<http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So, we can all be " gods " and create our own heaven? That was an

original lie:

Genesis 3:

4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes

shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Re: A thought/question regarding religion &

SMA/nick

in the email i just sent i quoted a line " religious conflict and bigotry

are increasingly centre stage " . so if we agree with that from looking

around the world i would say that was damaging society as a whole. in

relation to disability it is always the case that disabled people suffer

so much more in conflict situations. you only have to look how disabled

people faired when the twin towers were attacked.

my inital point about 'religion is the opium of the masses' is also

relevent to this.

i felt your earlier point was very good about the real question being do

we believe in ourselves.

i dont intend to post more about this subject. obviously 'god' works for

some of you. however my personal opinion is that not only do we not need

'god' to create our very own heaven on earth, but that achieving that

would be easier without 'him' in his various guises.

linda

Re: A thought/question regarding religion &

SMA/nick

How is a 'supreme being damaging society as a whole? that is a broad

statement.

j e s s ! c a

personal webpage: http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

<http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html>

[Guest guest]

Nick: I got it & agree with you - Mitch

--- Nick Dupree <nickdupree@...> wrote:

> Neuromuscular disease can be very painful. I was

> referring to Lori

> Martz's SMA as crucifixion metaphor---very powerful.

> Pretty similar in

> paralysis of limbs and breathing. Crucifixion is

> torture.

>

> We withstand it, we thrive, we falter, we're human.

> But.....

>

> My strong feeling is that " God is love " isn't

> compatible with " God hurts

> me to teach me / others. " That was my point that no

> one seemed to get.

>

> Nick

>

> heaven20seven@... wrote:

>

> >its for nick.

> >

> >j e s s ! c a

> >

> >personal webpage:

> http://hometown.aol.com/heaven20seven/index.html

> >

> >

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