Re: Which vaccine should I give?

[Guest guest]

, I would agree with your statements that vaccines to create

antibodies in the majority of those injected, based on the studies

I've read. There have also been cases cited that shows not all people

develop proper antibodies to a vaccine. I am one of those people who

doesn't hold a rubella titer. However, I would also state that there

have been plenty of sound scientific explanations for how mercury

causes autism.

I'm curious, what would you consider " good epidemiological studies " ? I

would consider Dr. Geier's study of CDC data that shows a profound

correlation between added vaccines & increase in autism to be " good " .

Also, regarding increased diagnoses, I would think that there would

have to be *some* increased diagnosis of autism over the last decade.

That said, there is no way it accounts for the total increase of

autism, especially considering Cali has always only considered

full-blown autism and not PDD/Asperger's and their rates have gone up

and up, until 2 years ago, which also correlates with decreasing

thimerosal levels in vaccines.

Debi

[Guest guest]

Mumps doesn't become a profound issue with a boy until the onset of

puberty, correct? I have heard some suggest putting off the mumps

until closer to age 10 or so.

Debi

>

> The question was which vaccine to get next. For a boy that should be

> mumps IMO. He can then still get the MMR if he goes abroad (where

> vaccine coverage may be not as good as in the US and astonishingly

> measles, mumps and rubella still occur), or when he goes to college.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I know you all are discussing MMR, but I found it interesting

that you quote the 1 in 1000 as dying from measles yet dying from MMR

is 1 in 1.5 million. I don't want to sound like a drama queen, but

honestly, there are some parents who had rather see their children die

within a week or so from measles than linger for decades profoundly

disabled from MMR reactions. Now you might state that there is no

causal study linking MMR & autism, which could be argued out a variety

of ways. But, one cannot argue that there are documented cases of

profoundly disabling results from MMR. I don't know if it's less than

the 1.5 million, but death is not the only outcome to consider here.

Debi

> > > >

> > > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject

> > any

> > > of them

> > > > inside your child.

> > > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands

> > how

> > > the

> > > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

> > experiment.

> > > > All the best,

> > > >

> > > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

> > > any should

> > > > be

> > > > given to their children "

> > > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In Knox Co, TN, there are 400 students with autism dx. According to

our special ed director, we have a significant increase. I believe

it's accurate, because we also have equal incompetent teachers. If

these kids only had behavior issues the teachers know how to deal with

that; they don't know how to reach kids with autism. Clearly there is

a difference. Also, we have a little over 4,000 students with a dxed

disability, don't know how that compares to any statistics.

Debi

>

> >I don't

> see an increase of children matching the ASD criteria in my children's

> school compared to what I saw in my school days<

>

> In our county the school districts are a Coop. In the Coop every

1/166 children have an ASD. It matches the national statistics. How

would you really know if children in your son's school have the dx?

Have you asked? That is private information so they probably won't

tell you. There are also MANY children that have the wrong label,

such as ADD, ADHD, and LD that are really on the Spectrum. It is not

uncommon for the schools to deliberately " miss " the correct dx because

of the mandate for more expensive services. Why are you on this list

anyway? You are very pro vaccine and I do believe that vaccines will

harm you or your children at some point.

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

Max, I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement that the

whole person should be considered. The day the government started

trying to legislate mandatory medical procedures for 100% of the

population was the day a mass harm was done to the public. Jumping

into the political fire here, but it's my assertion that it is not the

gov's role to mandate any medical procedure to me, especially while

disregarding my health history and needs. Medical procedures should be

left up to myself and my health care provider. Health care providers

should be given procedural guidelines, but leave the judgement up to

us in our exam room. Where's hippa for vaccines?

Another thing, I'm so tired of the " the benefits outweigh the risks "

when the benefits have never been clearly established in 100% of the

population and the risks have never been clearly defined. Also, to

state that my child's health is worth the risk is deeply offensive. My

child is worth more than all the gold in this world and is not a

statistical marker; she's my daughter and flesh and blood.

Another thing, all this arguing about benefits v. risks, and " small

number will have complications " and " autism has not been proven to be

caused by... " is crap. We all know there is sound science showing

otherwise. we all know some children are harmed/killed by vaccines, no

matter how small/large the number. All this arguing isn't helping

anything. What will help is profound research with the only goal to be

finding cause, not to be trying to disprove/prove/cover public

perception/etc. Until profound studies are complete identifying why

some children have adverse reactions and definitive, accepted proof of

the cause of autism, I'll be very slow to vaccinate. As well, many in

my circle of friends and family will be slow, not because of what I've

said, but what they saw with their own eyes after she got that hepB at

9 months of age.

Debi

>

> Very nicely put Deborah,

> I think the concept of the WHOLE person and not only individual named

> diseases should be considered.

> Did you know that science has evolved from the mechanistic model

that was

> the rage last century? There is actually a whole lot more to an immune

> system than antibodies and titres.

> Just because you inject measles vaccine and then notice that nobody is

> reporting measles anymore but atypical measles, asthma, exzema,

diabetes,

> ear infections , food allergies, epilepsy, blah blah does not mean that

> people are necessarily any healthier. I think only the simplest of minds

> would continue to insist that the recipients of said vaccine are a

whole lot

> healthier given the above known disease increases.

[Guest guest]

>I don't

> see an increase of children matching the ASD criteria in my

children's

> school compared to what I saw in my school days, although autism

> diagnosis rates seem to be going up.

wish I could say the same thing here. US educational data

(consistent across most states - California in particular) suggests

otherwise also. When IBI (ABA) was introduced in our area (gov't

pilot) 21 families showed up to an info session (they expected 5

based on the 1-in-10,000 stats). I'm told there are 44 kids in the

elementary system here as of today.

> There is also no satisfactory explanation for the mechanism by

which

> thimerosal should cause autism, while there is for how vaccination

> would work to prevent measles.

Deth, , Burbacher...? Guess it depends on what you consider

satisfactory.

>there is a mechanism for vaccination prevents natural

> infection.

that's not the point - it's an invasive medical procedure with

other " mechanisms " that we either don't fully understand, or we're

starting to understand too late for many kids - the point is that

these unpopular discoveries are not put onthe same playing field

when it comes to what does or does not

constitute " proof " . " Vaccines must work " when we see disease rates

drop. But " vaccines can't be responsible " when we see (other)

diseases crop up. Like I said, double standard.

just MHO...

regards,

-randy

[Guest guest]

Hi,

note that the OP explicitely asked for advice which vaccine to give next.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't

> inject

> > > any

> > > > of them

> > > > > inside your child.

> > > > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor

> understands

> > > how

> > > > the

> > > > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

> > > experiment.

> > > > > All the best,

> > > > >

> > > > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which

> vaccines if

> > > > any should

> > > > > be

> > > > > given to their children "

> > > > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, the California autism numbers are worth watching, although

they don't report incidence in " real time " and are looking at service

usage rather than exact diagnoses, as far as I understand (I may be

wrong). And wasn't it the *increase* in intake numbers rather than the

actual numbers that are going down? I will some more reading on that

(have downloaded the September report, but I find them difficult to

interpret).

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > > Why are you automatically assuming measles is gone because of

> > vaccines?

> > >

> > > Because it is an explanation that is consistent with vaccination

rates

> > > and epidemiology of measles infection before and after the

> > > introduction of the vaccine. It matches my life experience and

> > > therefore fully satisfies me as an explanation.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ange,

that graph shows measles mortality, which indeed declined due to

better sanitation and treatment possibilities (especially antibiotics

for those opportunistic infections as most children die from measles

pneumonia). However, the death rate has remained pretty consistently

at 1 in 1000 reported cases since the end of WW2 and the only way to

reduce measles death is to reduce measles morbidity, which happened

after the introduction of the vaccine.

I don't see where plumbing and nutrition is any worse in Western

Europe than in the US (on the contrary), yet, Switzerland, Italy,

Germany, the Netherlands get measles outbreaks with the classical

rates of complications and deaths, while the US does not.

> > >

> > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject any

> > of them

> > > inside your child.

> > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands how

> > the

> > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine experiment.

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

> > any should

> > > be

> > > given to their children "

> > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

I understand that my stance on the MMR is provocative because it

vaguely sounds like a Merck sales pitch. I certainly don't mean

offense to anyone who feels strongly against vaccines.

However, I am really surprised to see the notion (not only from you)

that measles mostly doesn't bother anyone. " mostly doesn't bother " is

a class I would sort the common cold into, or even chicken pox.

Measles, because of their immuno-suppressive function make a lot of

kids very, very sick. Certainly, living through such a very bothersome

sickness can be emotionally " empowering " (somewhat like giving birth).

However, the risks of longer lasting effects on health and permanent

sequelae are there and we get nowhere in a (hopefully) unbiased

discussion if we downplay these risks.

cheers

> > > > >

> > > > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't

> inject

> > > any

> > > > of them

> > > > > inside your child.

> > > > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor

> understands

> > > how

> > > > the

> > > > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

> > > experiment.

> > > > > All the best,

> > > > >

> > > > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which

> vaccines if

> > > > any should

> > > > > be

> > > > > given to their children "

> > > > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It didn't disappear - Scarlet fever is strep throat, antibiotics take

care of the dangerous sequelae of scarlet fever. The strep strains are

said to have become less damaging, however, I have an (internet)

aquaintance whose daughter suffered permanent heart damage in a

clinical trial that was aimed at reducing antibiotics treatment during

scarlet fever (she was in the " low abs " group), so strep can certainly

still do the trick.

> > >

> > > , sounds like you have it all figured out.

> > Why are you asking that

> > > question again? Our good friend Offit says

> > kids can handle

> > 10,000 vaccines at

> > > once why are you wanting to only give one at a

> > time?

> > >

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > > " Parents should decide through informed choice,

> > which vaccines if

> > any should

> > > be

> > > given to their children "

> > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

> http://mail.

>

[Guest guest]

,

measles are a notifiable disease. I realise that not all cases will be

reported, especially those that are not a " bad " case and might go

undiagnosed. However, there is not even a hint that measles are still

endemic to the US. All cases are either imported or can unambiguously

be traced back to an imported case by history of contact and virus

strain. If measles were still indigenous to the Unites States, we

would have to assume a conspiracy/cover up of enormous proportion,

basically involving most medical practises and hospitals in the US

(which are violating law if they do not report a case of measles as

far as I am aware).

That is highly unlikely

>

> >Because it is an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates

> and epidemiology of measles infection before and after the

> introduction of the vaccine. It matches my life experience and

> therefore fully satisfies me as an explanation<

>

> My daughter had the MMR at 15 months and got a bad case of the

measles at age 6, confirmed by the Ped. He wasn't surprised and

wasn't concerned and said that it happens. There are outbreaks all

over the country every year and most of the kids that get measles have

had their shot. You just don't hear these facts in the media and the

medical establishment sure doesn't want you to know it. I agree with

those who say NO VACCINES. It was after my grandson regressed into

autism after his last shots that I did the research and found out the

truth. I would also like to add that before this happened I got my

first, one and only flu shot (January '99) (got the flu!) and shortly

after that developed Rheumatoid Arthritis which does not run in my

family, and which is an autoimmune disease. I refused the typical

meds, choose supplements, and am much better off than women I know who

get the pills and shots for RA and have deteriorated.

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

I was actually thinking about the fact that the mumps monovalent seems

to be the most difficult to get, so if the boy can get it now, I would

go for that one.

Mumps at any age can be very painful, including orchitis. However, the

risk of sterility due to mumps goes up in the teen years.

>

> Mumps doesn't become a profound issue with a boy until the onset of

> puberty, correct? I have heard some suggest putting off the mumps

> until closer to age 10 or so.

>

> Debi

>

>

> >

> > The question was which vaccine to get next. For a boy that should be

> > mumps IMO. He can then still get the MMR if he goes abroad (where

> > vaccine coverage may be not as good as in the US and astonishingly

> > measles, mumps and rubella still occur), or when he goes to college.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>Yet, I cannot honestly say I do not know that it was soley the MMR or his and my natural predisposition either genetically or from exposures to thimerosal that weakened his immunity that pushed him over the edge.<

I read a hypothesis on what may be going on here, that was written by Dr. Cave (I think) who is pro vaccine. She thought that the shots that preceded the MMR which had mercury, and which infants received at least 3 times consecutively, could compromise/weaken the immune system and consequently the child's body couldn't handle the MMR which is 3 live viruses. This is what I think probably is happening to so many poor innocent children.

C.

[Guest guest]

>And wasn't it the *increase* in intake numbers rather than theactual numbers that are going down? I will some more reading on that(have downloaded the September report, but I find them difficult tointerpret). <

,

Please tell us why you joined the list. Do you have a child that you suspect was injured by mercury in vaccines? Are you connected somehow to the medical or drug industry? Are you a health care professional, do you have loved ones that work with drug companies? There is something that is prejudicing you toward vaccines and away from intelligent thought in the area of vaccine injury.

C.

[Guest guest]

" atypical measles " are very much a thing of the 80ties when young

adults originally vaccinated with the formaldehyde-inactivated vaccine

in the early and mid 60ties caught measles. Atypical measles can be

very severe and although I doubt that all will be diagnosed as what

they are, I doubt that all would be missed, especially since without

circulating measles virus, there will be no chance for measles,

atypical or typical.

If you look at PubMed, you will find that " atypical measles " in the

past 10 years refers to SSPE rather then to the Rocky Mountain Fever

rahs/pulmonary form of measles that it stood for in the 80ties.

> > >

> > > , sounds like you have it all figured out. Why are you

asking that

> > > question again? Our good friend Offit says kids can handle

> > 10,000 vaccines at

> > > once why are you wanting to only give one at a time?

> > >

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

> > any should

> > > be

> > > given to their children "

> > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the pointers. As I said, I find the lists so confusing, it

will take some time before I can make sense of them.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I don't have the web address but I am sure you can do a search and

> >find the

> >> California autism rates for this year and see that in the last three

> >> quarters that autism has actually been declining. I think that

the final

> >> quarter (Oct-Dec) will show that it is continuing to decline. You

> >can argue

> >> research all day, but you can't argue with fact in numbers. If the

> >autism

> >> rates continue to fall then there is your " proof " without all the

> >science

> >> mumbo jumbo.

> >> Just my two cents.

> >>

> >>

> >...

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps those in Switzerland, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands have a

genetic component that makes them less likely to fight the infection?

I've never been to any of those places so I don't know what

correlation there might be, like plumbing, nutrition, etc. Do they

push antibiotics like here? Perhaps that is why we have a lower rate?

I don't know, I don't have any scientific evidence to back that up,

but heck, there's no concrete genetic proof of autism either and it's

pushed all the time.

Debi

>

> Ange,

>

> that graph shows measles mortality, which indeed declined due to

> better sanitation and treatment possibilities (especially antibiotics

> for those opportunistic infections as most children die from measles

> pneumonia). However, the death rate has remained pretty consistently

> at 1 in 1000 reported cases since the end of WW2 and the only way to

> reduce measles death is to reduce measles morbidity, which happened

> after the introduction of the vaccine.

>

> I don't see where plumbing and nutrition is any worse in Western

> Europe than in the US (on the contrary), yet, Switzerland, Italy,

> Germany, the Netherlands get measles outbreaks with the classical

> rates of complications and deaths, while the US does not.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

the sons of my two best friends have been diagnosed with Asperger's

syndrome, this is where my interest comes from. I am not connected to

the drug industry, neither is any of my close family (a cousin of mine

sells medical equipment, we don't see each other often, though).

Neither of my friends ever mentioned vaccines as a possible cause for

their son's ASD, so I was surprised to see how strongly many parents

feel that their children were poisoned by vaccines. So I started

reading...

I am probably biased - go ahead and sway me if you can (but the

arguments should be sound and consistent). Or call me troll and ignore

me

>

> >And wasn't it the *increase* in intake numbers rather than the

> actual numbers that are going down? I will some more reading on that

> (have downloaded the September report, but I find them difficult to

> interpret). <

>

> ,

>

> Please tell us why you joined the list. Do you have a child that

you suspect was injured by mercury in vaccines? Are you connected

somehow to the medical or drug industry? Are you a health care

professional, do you have loved ones that work with drug companies?

There is something that is prejudicing you toward vaccines and away

from intelligent thought in the area of vaccine injury.

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

I was very pro-vaccine. I remember laughing with the ped about my

friend who was anti-vaccine as " one of those people " . Then I saw my

child at 9 months stop babbling, stop having motor skills, etc. This

was also well below the 18 mo " genetic age of regression " .

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with critically looking

into the issue; I think more people who aren't " affected " by it

should. I haven't seen your response to the study by Dr. Geier that

showed increased autism rates the more the thimerosal doses were given

that came from CDC data. Have you read this study?

also, you emailed earlier that I had a cynical statement that some

parents had rather see their children die in a 1 week disease that be

forever disabled. Let me restate that I personally do not feel this

way at all. However, I have met someone whose son is essentially

recovered who said his son cried so profoundly the first year and was

completely inconsolable that they began wishing he was dead. It wasn't

that they didn't love his son, but that they as parents hated see

their baby so miserable. There is a woman in my support group who is

regularly assaulted by her 6ft + 17 yr old, profoundly autistic son.

another mom watched her then 2 year old son bang his head so hard that

he literally broke his skull THREE different times. Her younger child

was emotionally scarred watching his mother grabbing her son's

blood-soaked head trying to make him stop. I've heard of another

teenage child with autism who's begun pulling his own permanent teeth.

My own daughter used to draw smiley faces out of her feces. Not nearly

as harmful, but torment on me. I know a mom on another board who was

trying to find a way to get her 8 year old to stop defecating in her

underwear so she could eat her own feces. Are these families human ito

feel intense sadness that their children suffer? I'm not making this

stuff up, I couldn't if I wanted to.

When people with Asperger's do relatively well, it's very easy to not

know the serious, real suffering families have. Maybe in your friends'

cases they don't think vaccines had any role. Maybe in your friends'

cases they didn't. Maybe your friends haven't looked into the

correlation of biological issues related. I think it's great you are

asking questions and considering it, but you come across not as one

really researching the issues, but trying to dismiss any issue.

There's a big difference there. We parents are frustrated with people

dismissing the issues without really understanding it. I haven't met

anyone yet who really dealved into it, reading critically ALL the

studies, both for/against, who don't think it's at least a plausible

correlation, and I've talked with MANY on the issue. I know we parents

can come across as nutty, that's exactly what I used to think. But

look at it truly critically and there is real science showing some

real problems.

Debi

>

> ,

>

> the sons of my two best friends have been diagnosed with Asperger's

> syndrome, this is where my interest comes from. I am not connected to

> the drug industry, neither is any of my close family (a cousin of mine

> sells medical equipment, we don't see each other often, though).

>

> Neither of my friends ever mentioned vaccines as a possible cause for

> their son's ASD, so I was surprised to see how strongly many parents

> feel that their children were poisoned by vaccines. So I started

> reading...

>

> I am probably biased - go ahead and sway me if you can (but the

> arguments should be sound and consistent). Or call me troll and ignore

> me

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Okay. Have you pointed your friends to information about the connection? There are questions that you could ask. Did their sons receive the normal schedule of vaccines? Did they possibly notice any change in their children over time? Asperger's is very high functioning autism, and usually they speak on time and develop normally to some extent. It is hard for any of us to believe that the health demigogues could be wrong about the value of vaccinations, and especially if we suspect that they might be dangerous. I believe it so strongly that I am relieved that my daughter in law did the research at my insistance and chose not to vaccinate her children, my grandson age 5, and granddaughter age 2. They are cousins of my oldest grandson who has severe autism caused by vaccines. By the way, both of my nonvaccinated grandchildren are healthy, and very intelligent. My 5 year old grandson is reading at a 4th grade level, and doing math at a 2nd grade level. My 2 year old granddaughter is very precocious and seems to have a high social IQ, highly expressive. Here in Texas in 2003 they passed a law allowing personal exemptions and I think all states should allow this choice. Micheal Palmer is a doctor and famous author. I think he has come to believe that his son's Asperger's was caused from vaccines. You might look into this and contact him through email to learn his opinion.

C.

[Guest guest]

julie, just as chicken pox isn't meningitis, strep

throat is not scarlet fever. in some people it can

BECOME scarlet fever.

i was wrong about one thing, there was a vaccine for

scarlet fever, but it was quickly pulled because it

caused too many deaths.

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

,

that was my original confusion. Both of them don't think that vaccines

had anything to do with their sons' development. Both have sensory

issues (sensitivities to sounds), one had severe language delay and

problems. Their issues are getting better over time with the moms'

investment, of course, speech therapy and the works.

One could read at age 4 and is was doing high school maths when his

peers were learning to calculate in the 2 and 3 digits, the other was

at late second grade level when he entered school. They don't have an

intelligence issue at all.

I am a big fan of Palmer and I am against mandatory

vaccinations

> Okay. Have you pointed your friends to information about the

connection? There are questions that you could ask. Did their sons

receive the normal schedule of vaccines? Did they possibly notice any

change in their children over time? Asperger's is very high

functioning autism, and usually they speak on time and develop

normally to some extent. It is hard for any of us to believe that the

health demigogues could be wrong about the value of vaccinations, and

especially if we suspect that they might be dangerous. I believe it

so strongly that I am relieved that my daughter in law did the

research at my insistance and chose not to vaccinate her children, my

grandson age 5, and granddaughter age 2. They are cousins of my

oldest grandson who has severe autism caused by vaccines. By the way,

both of my nonvaccinated grandchildren are healthy, and very

intelligent. My 5 year old grandson is reading at a 4th grade level,

and doing math at a 2nd grade level. My 2 year old granddaughter is

very precocious and seems to have a high social IQ, highly expressive.

Here in Texas in 2003 they passed a law allowing personal exemptions

and I think all states should allow this choice. Micheal Palmer is a

doctor and famous author. I think he has come to believe that his

son's Asperger's was caused from vaccines. You might look into this

and contact him through email to learn his opinion.

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >> > > > , sounds like you have it all figured out.> > > Why are you asking that > > > > question again? Our good friend Offit says> > > kids can handle> > > 10,000 vaccines at > > > > once why are you wanting to only give one at a> > > time?> > > > > > > > All the best,> > > > > > > > "Parents should decide through informed choice,> > > which vaccines if> > > any should > > > > be> > > > given to their children"> > > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org> > > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.> >>

[Guest guest]

> >> > I thought this was a place where discussion was welcomed. I'm getting sick of seeing half the posts here full of nothing but your forwards, Theresa. Why don't you give your advice off list!--- In