Re: Which vaccine should I give?

November 9, 2005

If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject any of them inside your child. Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands how the immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine experiment.

All the best,"Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should begiven to their children"Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

November 10, 2005

, do you really think injecting measles, mumps, rubella virus into your child will help you avoid it? Why are you automatically assuming measles is gone because of vaccines? MMR came out in 1963. Ask your parents if people were dropping like flies before the vaccine came out. Vaccines are a dangerous scam. You know its grown in chicken eggs and aborted fetal tissue right? Research before you decide. Your child's health depends on it. If I could turn back the hands of time my children would have never had one.

All the best,"Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should begiven to their children"Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

November 10, 2005

, sounds like you have it all figured out. Why are you asking that question again? Our good friend Offit says kids can handle 10,000 vaccines at once why are you wanting to only give one at a time?

All the best,"Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should begiven to their children"Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

November 10, 2005

, I personally think its from better nutrition and cleanliness. Its the terrain of your body that decides whether or not you become sick not whether or not you inject live/half dead/dead virus into your body. Measles can be healed by vitamin A. I personally think Americans get plenty of Vitamin A so that if they do come down with measles its short term and hardly noticed. I had measles as a child and my parents barely noticed. Back then the doctor just said, "Yep measles" so my mom read the story about Mr. Wiggles and his case of the measles and life went on. If you notice when the vaccinators go in to these backward countries and give the measles shot they always add Vitamin A into the kids so don't die so quickly after their shots. They are gone by the time the live viruses they injected into them takes over the kids organs and anything that happens after a shot must happen within two days or its not because of the vaccine. I have heard to many missionary stories to not believe this really happens. I also believe that when your child comes down with a vaccine preventable disease that he has already been injected with at least 4 times like pertussis the doctor just calls it acute bronchitis and codes it to reflect his new diagnosis. Been there done that. So the bottom line is I don't believe injecting aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde, RNA and DNA from diseased animal tissue along with a halfdead/dead/live virus can somehow confer immunity in an immune system no doctor on the planet understands.

But hey its a free country do what you want. So far there are no forced vaccinations so you still have a choice. Personally I would look at the vial and make sure it has the words "AVIAN LEUCOSIS FREE' on it. The FDA has asked Merck to screen for bird viruses in the vaccine and hopefully they did. I know the yellow fever vaccine has the sticker already but I don't know about the other vaccines made with chicken eggs. Also according to Dr Chen at the CDC, Campylobacter is what causes GBS. But don't worry its only in 40% of the chicken eggs so there is at least a 60% chance your child won't suffer with that polio like illness. There is always a risk/benefit to vaccinations. I no longer take risks with my children's health. Mine children are not expendable.All the best,"Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should begiven to their children"Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

November 10, 2005

,

what exactly gives you the idea that the MMR does not work? The fact

that measles have virtually disappeared from the US, heck, from the

American continent? Or is it that we don't see children born deaf or

blind or with heart defects (or all of the above) due to rubella

embryopathy anymore?

The question was which vaccine to get next. For a boy that should be

mumps IMO. He can then still get the MMR if he goes abroad (where

vaccine coverage may be not as good as in the US and astonishingly

measles, mumps and rubella still occur), or when he goes to college.

>

> If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject any

of them

> inside your child.

> Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands how

the

> immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine experiment.

> All the best,

>

> " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

any should

> be

> given to their children "

> Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

>

November 10, 2005

Kids are better off getting these diseases and building a strong

immune system. The risk of damage from the disease is far less than

the risk of damage from the vaccine.

> >

> > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject

any

> of them

> > inside your child.

> > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands

how

> the

> > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

experiment.

> > All the best,

> >

> > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

> any should

> > be

> > given to their children "

> > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> >

>

November 10, 2005

,

> Why are you automatically assuming measles is gone because of vaccines?

Because it is an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates

and epidemiology of measles infection before and after the

introduction of the vaccine. It matches my life experience and

therefore fully satisfies me as an explanation. Just out of curiosity

- why do you think that there are so few measles cases in the US why

rates are relatively high in other countries?

> MMR came out in 1963.

No it didn't. The first measles vaccines did. A non live version that

didn't confer long time immunity and the live measles vaccine

(monovalent). The MMR did not appear until the late 70ties (different

versions in different countries) and in many countries wasn't licensed

until much later (1988 in the UK). Do you really not know that?

> Ask your parents if people were dropping like flies before the

vaccine came out.

I did and they were. My parents considered measles a dangerous disease

(that's why I got vaccinated long before any mandate).

> Vaccines are a dangerous scam.

Dangerous at times, probably. A scam?! Not really, unless you are in a

developing country and someone sells you saline as a vaccine (happens

quite often, so I hear).

> You know its grown in chicken eggs and aborted fetal tissue right?

I know about vaccine production and I do know that chicken eggs and

some cell lines derived from aborted babies are used to propagate

virus. I find propagating virus in chicken eggs and cell lines much

preferable to propagating virus in children.

> Research before you decide.

I did and if you believe your claims, I think I did better than you.

> Your child's health depends on it.

Absolutely, this is why I researched (and both got their MMRs on

schedule).

> If I could turn back the hands of time my children would have never

had one.

They are a couple of things I might want to change if I could turn

back time. The MMR is not among them.

cheers

>

> All the best,

>

> " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

any should

> be

> given to their children "

> Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

>

November 10, 2005

,

> Kids are better off getting these diseases and building a strong

> immune system. The risk of damage from the disease is far less than

> the risk of damage from the vaccine.

that sounds like a mantra and it is sadly not backed up by reality.

Measles in particular suppress the immune system, hence there is a

very high rate of opportunistic infections that go along with and

follow measles. Risk of death from measles is about 1 in 1000 reported

cases. Risk of death from the MMR vaccine is about 1 in 1.5 million

doses. If you are living in a country in which measles are still

endemic (that would be *outside* the US), then it is very advisable to

get an MCV.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16237742 & query_hl=3

" Measles virus (MV) causes transient but profound immunosuppression

resulting in increased susceptibility to secondary bacterial and viral

infections. Due to the development of these opportunistic infections,

measles remains the leading vaccine-preventable cause of child death

worldwide. "

>

> > >

> > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't inject

> any

> > of them

> > > inside your child.

> > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor understands

> how

> > the

> > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

> experiment.

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

> > any should

> > > be

> > > given to their children "

> > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > >

> >

>

November 10, 2005

,

you are not answering my question:

if it was not the vaccines, what caused the virtual eradication of

measles from the American continent? Why does rubella no longer main

children in the US?

You sound so convinced that it was not the vaccines. But it must have

been something? What was it and why is it not happening in Switzerland

or Japan?

Please share, if you can

>

> , sounds like you have it all figured out. Why are you asking that

> question again? Our good friend Offit says kids can handle

10,000 vaccines at

> once why are you wanting to only give one at a time?

>

> All the best,

>

> " Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if

any should

> be

> given to their children "

> Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

>

November 10, 2005

would you then agree that autism rates increased because of an

increase in the levels of thimerosal injected? This is after all also

an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates, it matches

the epidemiology of autism rates / diagnoses before and after these

significant increase in mercury exposure levels (bolus mercury doses),

it matches the life experiences of numerous parents, and it satisfies

several of these parents as being a (plausible, at least) explanation.

it's just funny how the " correlation does not imply causation "

argument only seems to apply when the question of vaccine safety comes

up, yet everyone " knows " that vaccines are the only reason for the

decline in diseases.

not anti-vaccine - just anti-double-standard...

-randy

>

> ,

>

> > Why are you automatically assuming measles is gone because of

vaccines?

>

> Because it is an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates

> and epidemiology of measles infection before and after the

> introduction of the vaccine. It matches my life experience and

> therefore fully satisfies me as an explanation.

November 10, 2005

Randy,

> would you then agree that autism rates increased because of an

> increase in the levels of thimerosal injected?

Not surprisingly, no. I don't think that there are very good

epidemiological studies of autism incidence and prevalance. I don't

see an increase of children matching the ASD criteria in my children's

school compared to what I saw in my school days, although autism

diagnosis rates seem to be going up. There is no clear correlation.

There is also no satisfactory explanation for the mechanism by which

thimerosal should cause autism, while there is for how vaccination

would work to prevent measles. Measles vaccination causes the body to

make antibodies against measles virus (you can prove this in the lab),

a certain titre protects against infection (irrespective of whether

acquired through vaccination or natural infection - this has been

observed and lab confirmed in outbreaks), after a certain vaccine

coverage is achieved, measles do no longer occur. In areas/communities

in which MCV coverage is low, measles still occur. That, for me,

paints a very clear picture.

I see no biological mechanism that links thimerosal from vaccines to

autism. Has anyone ever looked at total mercury burden over the years?

I would think that should be going down rather than up (I have no

numbers here - anyone of you?).

> This is after all also

> an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates, it matches

> the epidemiology of autism rates / diagnoses before and after these

> significant increase in mercury exposure levels (bolus mercury doses),

> it matches the life experiences of numerous parents, and it satisfies

> several of these parents as being a (plausible, at least) explanation.

As I said, I don't think there are good epidemiological data on autism

(or can you point me to some)?

> it's just funny how the " correlation does not imply causation "

> argument only seems to apply when the question of vaccine safety comes

> up, yet everyone " knows " that vaccines are the only reason for the

> decline in diseases.

See above - there is a mechanism for vaccination prevents natural

infection.

> not anti-vaccine - just anti-double-standard...

Nope, that is just science

(not wanting to sound harsh)

>

> -randy

>

> >

> > ,

> >

> > > Why are you automatically assuming measles is gone because of

> vaccines?

> >

> > Because it is an explanation that is consistent with vaccination rates

> > and epidemiology of measles infection before and after the

> > introduction of the vaccine. It matches my life experience and

> > therefore fully satisfies me as an explanation.

>

November 11, 2005

Hey..Lenny's probably eating a nice dinner in SC and not having to

read all this...BUT I'm sure if he were here, he would be saying

take this off list....No one really should give advice here..on

whether or not to vaccinate or not..please do this off list or on a

list that is related to that..Thanks....

InEOHarm , " twoweasleys " <twoweasleys@y...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> > Kids are better off getting these diseases and building a strong

> > immune system. The risk of damage from the disease is far less

than

> > the risk of damage from the vaccine.

>

> that sounds like a mantra and it is sadly not backed up by reality.

> Measles in particular suppress the immune system, hence there is a

> very high rate of opportunistic infections that go along with and

> follow measles. Risk of death from measles is about 1 in 1000

reported

> cases. Risk of death from the MMR vaccine is about 1 in 1.5 million

> doses. If you are living in a country in which measles are still

> endemic (that would be *outside* the US), then it is very

advisable to

> get an MCV.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16237742 & query_hl=3

>

> " Measles virus (MV) causes transient but profound immunosuppression

> resulting in increased susceptibility to secondary bacterial and

viral

> infections. Due to the development of these opportunistic

infections,

> measles remains the leading vaccine-preventable cause of child

death

> worldwide. "

>

> >

> > > >

> > > > If you don't want him to get any of these diseases don't

inject

> > any

> > > of them

> > > > inside your child.

> > > > Vaccines don't work never have never will. No doctor

understands

> > how

> > > the

> > > > immune system works. Don't risk your child to a vaccine

> > experiment.

> > > > All the best,

> > > >

> > > > " Parents should decide through informed choice, which

vaccines if

> > > any should

> > > > be

> > > > given to their children "

> > > > Vaccine Information or vaccinetruth.org

> > > > Callahan Vaccine Liberation Co-director

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 11, 2005

I don't have the web address but I am sure you can do a search and find the California autism rates for this year and see that in the last three quarters that autism has actually been declining. I think that the final quarter (Oct-Dec) will show that it is continuing to decline. You can argue research all day, but you can't argue with fact in numbers. If the autism rates continue to fall then there is your "proof" without all the science mumbo jumbo.

Just my two cents.

-- Re: Which vaccine should I give?