Re: Re: The Purest Sport?

[Guest guest]

I would definitely side with rugby. Just a ball and a bunch of aggressive

people. I've played the game and aside from the occasional eye

gouging and getting stabbed in the shins with cleats, it is an amazingly

pure game. Relatively little personal skill required (aside from maybe

the place kicker). Just big cahones and quick thinking. The only time

I've ever seen a truly skillful move is when a guy did a grubber kick

through the poles!

Dmitry Voronov

Toronto, Ontario

----- Original Message -----

" Dmitry Voronov " <dvoronov@u...> wrote:

> By the way, I was talking to a friend the other day about the purest

> > sport. I pushed for powerlifting but I had to back off because there is

> > definitely the issue of equipment. We both seemed to agree on wrestling.

> > Just him and you, no sucker punches, no gray areas. Does anyone else

> > have a better one?

Roe:

** How about the purest team sport? I say football, the team that can

physically dominate (speed and strength) the other team wins.

Mel Siff:

[This does not meet with Dmitry's requirement for minimal equipment.

Rugby does - no helmets, no padding, etc. Swimming and running relays,

beach volleyball, soccer also do.]

Boxing gets my vote for purest individual sport.

Mel Siff:

[Once again, modern boxing requires the use of gloves, so this does not meet

Dmitry's equipment criterion - though karate and some other martial arts do.]

[Guest guest]

" Dmitry Voronov " wrote:

I would definitely side with rugby. Just a ball and a bunch of aggressive

people. I've played the game and aside from the occasional eye gouging and

getting stabbed in the shins with cleats, it is an amazingly pure game.

Relatively little personal skill required (aside from maybe the place

kicker). Just big cahones and quick thinking. The only time I've ever seen a

truly skillful move is when a guy did a grubber kick through the poles!

## Dimitry, I don't think you give rugby union players enough credit! The

skill required by a prop (front row) during a scrum has been recognised and

during a match if for some reason there are not sufficient 'recognised'

props on the field of play the scrum becomes uncontested or passive. That

is, the ball is put in and no one pushes. The ball then comes out the on the

side who had the put-in. An 'unskilled' player in this position will be at

risk of serious injury (spinal) due to the collapsing of the scrum.

With out going into too much detail about the scrum, it is a method of

restarting the game following an minor infringement, the side putting the

ball in has the advantage (generally). The scrum is made up of 8 players per

team, of which 2 are props and the hooker, these players make the front

row,the others tuck in and bind together. The two teams join by the front

rows interlocking. I would recommend to anyone who has not seen how the team

join to have a look at any international side play, when the two sides

prepare for a scrum they get into formation and when the referee says engage

the two front rows physically hit each other, hard to form the scrum!

Trust me it hurts, I didn't last too long in the front row, saw the light

and joined the pretty boys in the backs!

This is only one example that comes to mind and there are many more!

I realise that your comments were 'tongue-in-check but thought I'd stand up

for the rugby boys. Although it is organised violence and these days they do

wear shoulder pads and scrum caps are more common (suppose you can stick a

logo on them!)but nothing to the extent of grid iron (taking nothing away

from the US, two completely different sports)

Melbourne, Australia

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[Guest guest]

Didn't I say I played the game?

Strength isn't skill, it's an attribute. I'm relatively strong in

highschool and I was a great prop. I never played the game before and I

started on my first try because we almost never lost a scrum while I was

in it. A lot of cheapshots in 15s. Eventually I gave in too. If the

other guy gets too rowdy, nothing wrong with a fist to the face. Yeah,

the engage part isn't fun. I started wearing a sweat band covering my

earlobes because it felt like they were gonna get ripped off.

I'm a big fan of American football as a spectator sport but I don't

respect it nearly as much as rugby. The pads and the helmet are a

weapon. In fact, I think it was in Green Bay way back when the coach

specialized in teaching spearing. I'd like to see half of those hits

done with nothing but a sweatshirt and a mouthguard. Angus wasn't a

particular masterpiece of cinematography but it has one of my favourite

movie quotes of all time.

kid: " I'm not brave, Superman is brave. "

old man: " Superman isn't brave. You can't be brave if you're

invincible. "

Dmitry Voronov

Toronto, Ontario

Re: Re: The Purest Sport?

" Dmitry Voronov " wrote:

I would definitely side with rugby. Just a ball and a bunch of

aggressive

people. I've played the game and aside from the occasional eye gouging

and

getting stabbed in the shins with cleats, it is an amazingly pure

game.

Relatively little personal skill required (aside from maybe the place

kicker). Just big cahones and quick thinking. The only time I've ever

seen a

truly skillful move is when a guy did a grubber kick through the

poles!

## Dimitry, I don't think you give rugby union players enough credit!

The

skill required by a prop (front row) during a scrum has been

recognised and

during a match if for some reason there are not sufficient

'recognised'

props on the field of play the scrum becomes uncontested or passive.

That

is, the ball is put in and no one pushes. The ball then comes out the

on the

side who had the put-in. An 'unskilled' player in this position will

be at

risk of serious injury (spinal) due to the collapsing of the scrum.

With out going into too much detail about the scrum, it is a method of

restarting the game following an minor infringement, the side putting

the

ball in has the advantage (generally). The scrum is made up of 8

players per

team, of which 2 are props and the hooker, these players make the

front

row,the others tuck in and bind together. The two teams join by the

front

rows interlocking. I would recommend to anyone who has not seen how

the team

join to have a look at any international side play, when the two sides

prepare for a scrum they get into formation and when the referee says

engage

the two front rows physically hit each other, hard to form the scrum!

Trust me it hurts, I didn't last too long in the front row, saw the

light

and joined the pretty boys in the backs!

This is only one example that comes to mind and there are many more!

I realise that your comments were 'tongue-in-check but thought I'd

stand up

for the rugby boys. Although it is organised violence and these days

they do

wear shoulder pads and scrum caps are more common (suppose you can

stick a

logo on them!)but nothing to the extent of grid iron (taking nothing

away

from the US, two completely different sports)

Melbourne, Australia

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

OOPS, hehe, changed a sentence without re-reading it. That should say " I

was a relatively strong guy in highschool " .

Dmitry Voronov

Toronto, Ontario

Re: Re: The Purest Sport?

" Dmitry Voronov " wrote:

I would definitely side with rugby. Just a ball and a bunch of

aggressive

people. I've played the game and aside from the occasional eye

gouging

and

getting stabbed in the shins with cleats, it is an amazingly pure

game.

Relatively little personal skill required (aside from maybe the

place

kicker). Just big cahones and quick thinking. The only time I've

ever

seen a

truly skillful move is when a guy did a grubber kick through the

poles!

## Dimitry, I don't think you give rugby union players enough

credit!

The

skill required by a prop (front row) during a scrum has been

recognised and

during a match if for some reason there are not sufficient

'recognised'

props on the field of play the scrum becomes uncontested or passive.

That

is, the ball is put in and no one pushes. The ball then comes out

the

on the

side who had the put-in. An 'unskilled' player in this position will

be at

risk of serious injury (spinal) due to the collapsing of the scrum.

With out going into too much detail about the scrum, it is a method

of

restarting the game following an minor infringement, the side

putting

the

ball in has the advantage (generally). The scrum is made up of 8

players per

team, of which 2 are props and the hooker, these players make the

front

row,the others tuck in and bind together. The two teams join by the

front

rows interlocking. I would recommend to anyone who has not seen how

the team

join to have a look at any international side play, when the two

sides

prepare for a scrum they get into formation and when the referee

says

engage

the two front rows physically hit each other, hard to form the

scrum!

Trust me it hurts, I didn't last too long in the front row, saw the

light

and joined the pretty boys in the backs!

This is only one example that comes to mind and there are many more!

I realise that your comments were 'tongue-in-check but thought I'd

stand up

for the rugby boys. Although it is organised violence and these days

they do

wear shoulder pads and scrum caps are more common (suppose you can

stick a

logo on them!)but nothing to the extent of grid iron (taking nothing

away

from the US, two completely different sports)

Melbourne, Australia

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:

http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Dmitry Voronov wrote:

" Didn't I say I played the game? Strength isn't skill, it's an attribute.

I'm relatively strong in highschool and I was a great prop. I never played

the game before and I started on my first try because we almost never lost a

scrum while I was in it. "

My response:

The description of the scrum was not intended to be patronising toward

yourself but to help the others on the list. Personally I played many years

ago, migrating from the scrum as soon as I could.

I find it hard to believe that you underestimate the technical skill

required to be an effective prop during a scrum and put it down to

'strength'(however you wish to define it) alone.

To cut it short, please consider the following:

How important is:

- binding or hand placement with the opposition to you as a prop?

- limb orientation, for example: position of the hip relative to the

shoulder during the drive?

- synchronisation of the drive with the rest of the pack, rotating the scrum

more than 90 degrees I believe results in loss of possession (I'm not sure

though)and the opposition gets awarded the put-in.

I believe that the ability to excel as a prop (loose or tight head)in the

scrum requires more than simply so-called strength.

Only my opinion though!

thanks,

Melbourne

Australia

-

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[Guest guest]

No no, I know you weren't trying to be patronising to me, it just

sounded like you thought I didn't know the game and I wanted to save you

some time.

Well, just like with everything else, you won't get it right away but

it's definitely not a very challenging skill to learn. It only took us a

few practices to have it down cold. In the scrum, technique will help a

bit but if you are significantly stronger than the other guy, it won't

matter all that much how you position yourself, you will outdrive him.

Some guys never did want to learn to stay low but they were usually

relatively weak. For me, it came down to listening to the coach. " Stay

down low! " - so I did. :-)

Dmitry Voronov

Toronto, Ontario

Re: Re: The Purest Sport?

Dmitry Voronov wrote:

" Didn't I say I played the game? Strength isn't skill, it's an

attribute.

I'm relatively strong in highschool and I was a great prop. I never

played

the game before and I started on my first try because we almost never

lost a

scrum while I was in it. "

My response:

The description of the scrum was not intended to be patronising toward

yourself but to help the others on the list. Personally I played many

years

ago, migrating from the scrum as soon as I could.

I find it hard to believe that you underestimate the technical skill

required to be an effective prop during a scrum and put it down to

'strength'(however you wish to define it) alone.

To cut it short, please consider the following:

How important is:

- binding or hand placement with the opposition to you as a prop?

- limb orientation, for example: position of the hip relative to the

shoulder during the drive?

- synchronisation of the drive with the rest of the pack, rotating the

scrum

more than 90 degrees I believe results in loss of possession (I'm not

sure

though)and the opposition gets awarded the put-in.

I believe that the ability to excel as a prop (loose or tight head)in

the

scrum requires more than simply so-called strength.

Only my opinion though!

thanks,

Melbourne

Australia

-

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

Gentlemen,

if I may put my two cents worth in.

What about the tactical skill of a scrumhalf reading the situation with

lightning speed and passing to the right side to create a winning movement?

Consider Merhtens or Joost van der Westhuizen or a fullback with the

uncanny skill of just being right there when the opposition kicked deep - Andre

Joubert.

Or a wing that finds gaps that don't exist and makes tries out of thin air. And

of course the penalty kicking skills that can turn the result of a game -

, Merhtens and that Australian kicker whose name I forget. As well as

consistently getting touch when kicking your team out of trouble.

Yes it's a tough man's game but ball-handling skills, game reading skills and

teamwork skills are vital to reaching the top level.

Gideon Langart

Port Owen, South Africa

[Guest guest]

You know, that's a very good point. When I think of rugby, I only think

of the position I played. I never handled the ball much other than

picking up loose ones, turn around and hold it. I always hated passing

drills because I was so inexperienced and throwing the ball only

backwards was very awkward. Our coach has played most of his life. He

had a fraction of my strength and he could whip the ball so hard it

would knock the wind out of me.

And yes, on the international level, how the wings find holes is beyond

me. Both teams are so good that most often, it seems like a soccer match

in that it looks like neither side will ever get the chance to score.

Then, out of nowhere, bang bang bang and they're in!

I definitely stand corrected!

Dmitry Voronov

Toronto, Ontario

[Guest guest]

>Gentlemen,

>if I may put my two cents worth in.

>What about the tactical skill of a scrumhalf reading the situation with

>lightning speed and passing to the right side to create a winning

>movement? Consider Merhtens or Joost van der Westhuizen or a

>fullback with the uncanny skill of just being right there when the

>opposition kicked deep - Andre Joubert.

>

>Or a wing that finds gaps that don't exist and makes tries out of thin

>air. And of course the penalty kicking skills that can turn the result of

>a game - , Merhtens and that Australian kicker whose name I forget.

>As well as consistently getting touch when kicking your team out of

>trouble.

>

>Yes it's a tough man's game but ball-handling skills, game reading skills

>and teamwork skills are vital to reaching the top level.

Love the game, but it is a game, not a sport. Breaks and bounces can

determine the outcome. The other teams mistakes can affect your play.

Like football, baseball and hockey. All great games requiring a great deal

of athletic ability (as opposed to games like golf, bowling and curling),

but a game none the less.

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA