Re: palm, fist, finger counting

[Guest guest]

Yeah, take another look at the book. For muscle gain you get double

carb portions at the first three meals. And, in six years of BFL, this

is the first I've heard of a... finger portion??

Also, if you're trying to lose fat (now I'm not sure if you were

trying to lose, maintain, or gain :-) you should NOT be stuffed to the

gills. You should be stomach growling hungry and looking for more chow

2-3 hours after each meal. If you're never feeling true hunger, the

meals are probably too big and the calories are too high.

It is a huge, HUGE mistake to pick out some random number for your

calorie intake and cling to it for dear life. No book, no expert, no

formula can tell you precisely how much to eat in order for YOU to get

a certain outcome. How much you eat has to be based on your own

results and hunger level and nothing else, which is why Bill didn't

provide any magic whiz-bang math formulas in his book. He wants you to

learn to make healthy food choices using reasonable easy-to-eyeball

portions. If you can do that, you can easily control your weight for

the rest of your life. If you need a calculator, a computer, a slide

rule, a measuring cup, a food scale, a tape measure, a journal,

colored pens, and graph paper every time you sit down to eat...

chances are you're screwed.

On 3/22/06, Elise <ewhite723@...> wrote:

> OK - I'm sure that I am putting way too much thought into this, but

> here is my dilema.

>

> My main goal is to lose fat. I know that the program works with the

> palm, fist, finger portions. But what if my goal were to maintain

> or even to gain? My palm, fist and fingers won't be getting any

> bigger! So how can this method work for all three scenerios?

>

> Also, once again - and I promise to try to make this my last time to

> freak out about this - I am one of those control freaks who logs

> EVERY last nibble so I feel positive that I am staying within the

> calorie range suggested by both BFL and BFFM...and ' ) -

> thanks for your help. But I just feel so full all the time! It's

> very worrying to me that these calorie ranges are correct! Did

> anyone else feel this way in the beginning? I know that I just need

> to be patient and give myself some time to build up some statistics

> but it's all very scarey to me!

>

> And another thing. I took my " before " pics tonight. They WILL NOT

> be going out for public viewing anytime soon! And these were after

> already losing nearly 11 pounds and dropping my body fat by 12% in

> seven weeks (ok, it was a Tanita scale thing so it's probably

> completely inaccurate but the trend is good). Man-o-man...I really

> miss being young and cute!

>

> On a positive note - that AdvantEdge RTD that I thought was going to

> make me puke the other night actually tasted delicious to me

> tonight! ) There's always a silver lining!

[Guest guest]

>

> very worrying to me that these calorie ranges are correct!<<<<<< Did

> anyone else feel this way in the beginning? >>>>>>

I'm at the beginning and I;m counting calories. I'm doing this

because 1) i want to keep my calories as high as possible with out

going over and 2) i'm compulsive and 3) i've never counted calories,

so I doing it to learn about them BUT I ALSO there will come a time

when I have to wean myself off my computer program and still eat this

way. And that will be a whole learning curve. I won't have all that

experience with the fist and palm when I am in maintenance. I think

the fist and palm sounds very mentally healthy -- I'm just not there.

Many people have lost and are loosing very successfully with fist and

palm. Others would rather count. I think it's really up to you and

what you feel comfortable with and the plan you make for yourself. It

needs to become YOUR plan. You can't just stick to someone else's

plan and hope it will work. All plans need to be adapted to the

situation and the person and part of successfully making the change

that a diet implies is to make it YOUR plan that you are in charge or

and responsible for,

felicity

[Guest guest]

By that point, you'll be familiar with portion sizes and it will be a

fairly easy transition. You'll know what a portion of rice looks like, etc

At 06:17 AM 3/23/2006, you wrote:

><SNIP> there will come a time

>when I have to wean myself off my computer program and still eat this

>way. And that will be a whole learning curve. I won't have all that

>experience with the fist and palm when I am in maintenance. <SNIP>

[Guest guest]

Thanks !!

That's exactly what I was asking! Subject closed. Lips zipped!

Like I said, I have already lost 10 " scale " pounds and *some*

percentage of body fat(BTW - am I using those asterisks right - I'm

not too " up " on chat lingo). I also really do have SOME common

sense! I just needed some reassurance, I guess. I will just quit

obsessing and watch the stats and see what happens! I think I'm

just not used to eating so much. Ya know, when you're used to

dining on wine and pringles you don't get much food before you're

WAY over your limit! :*o(

I just got hung up on the eat too much - you gain fat, eat too

little - you lose muscle...must have been the Goldilocks side of me

coming out!

Anyway thanks for the " straight talk " ! I'm sure you get sick of

answering the same questions over, and over, and over, again but I'm

really glad that you take the time to do it anyway!!

Elise

> > OK - I'm sure that I am putting way too much thought into this,

but

> > here is my dilema.

> >

> > My main goal is to lose fat. I know that the program works with

the

> > palm, fist, finger portions. But what if my goal were to

maintain

> > or even to gain? My palm, fist and fingers won't be getting any

> > bigger! So how can this method work for all three scenerios?

> >

> > Also, once again - and I promise to try to make this my last

time to

> > freak out about this - I am one of those control freaks who logs

> > EVERY last nibble so I feel positive that I am staying within the

> > calorie range suggested by both BFL and BFFM...and ' ) -

> > thanks for your help. But I just feel so full all the time!

It's

> > very worrying to me that these calorie ranges are correct! Did

> > anyone else feel this way in the beginning? I know that I just

need

> > to be patient and give myself some time to build up some

statistics

> > but it's all very scarey to me!

> >

> > And another thing. I took my " before " pics tonight. They WILL

NOT

> > be going out for public viewing anytime soon! And these were

after

> > already losing nearly 11 pounds and dropping my body fat by 12%

in

> > seven weeks (ok, it was a Tanita scale thing so it's probably

> > completely inaccurate but the trend is good). Man-o-man...I

really

> > miss being young and cute!

> >

> > On a positive note - that AdvantEdge RTD that I thought was

going to

> > make me puke the other night actually tasted delicious to me

> > tonight! ) There's always a silver lining!

>

[Guest guest]

Yup! Thanks Felicity! You sound very much like me in your

approach! Also, thanks for reminding me that it's best to eat as

much as you can " get away with " ! I will just take it easy, be

patient (yeah right!) and figure out exactly what that is! I

didn't realize what a control freak I was until I started all this!

See! Then mental change is working already!! ;o)

>

> >

> > very worrying to me that these calorie ranges are correct!<<<<<<

Did

> > anyone else feel this way in the beginning? >>>>>>

>

> I'm at the beginning and I;m counting calories. I'm doing this

> because 1) i want to keep my calories as high as possible with

out

> going over and 2) i'm compulsive and 3) i've never counted

calories,

> so I doing it to learn about them BUT I ALSO there will come a

time

> when I have to wean myself off my computer program and still eat

this

> way. And that will be a whole learning curve. I won't have all

that

> experience with the fist and palm when I am in maintenance. I

think

> the fist and palm sounds very mentally healthy -- I'm just not

there.

>

> Many people have lost and are loosing very successfully with fist

and

> palm. Others would rather count. I think it's really up to you

and

> what you feel comfortable with and the plan you make for yourself.

It

> needs to become YOUR plan. You can't just stick to someone else's

> plan and hope it will work. All plans need to be adapted to the

> situation and the person and part of successfully making the

change

> that a diet implies is to make it YOUR plan that you are in charge

or

> and responsible for,

>

> felicity

>

[Guest guest]

,

I disagree, my journal is very helpful, and Bill even says to

journal.

> > OK - I'm sure that I am putting way too much thought into this,

but

> > here is my dilema.

> >

> > My main goal is to lose fat. I know that the program works with

the

> > palm, fist, finger portions. But what if my goal were to

maintain

> > or even to gain? My palm, fist and fingers won't be getting any

> > bigger! So how can this method work for all three scenerios?

> >

> > Also, once again - and I promise to try to make this my last

time to

> > freak out about this - I am one of those control freaks who logs

> > EVERY last nibble so I feel positive that I am staying within the

> > calorie range suggested by both BFL and BFFM...and ' ) -

> > thanks for your help. But I just feel so full all the time!

It's

> > very worrying to me that these calorie ranges are correct! Did

> > anyone else feel this way in the beginning? I know that I just

need

> > to be patient and give myself some time to build up some

statistics

> > but it's all very scarey to me!

> >

> > And another thing. I took my " before " pics tonight. They WILL

NOT

> > be going out for public viewing anytime soon! And these were

after

> > already losing nearly 11 pounds and dropping my body fat by 12%

in

> > seven weeks (ok, it was a Tanita scale thing so it's probably

> > completely inaccurate but the trend is good). Man-o-man...I

really

> > miss being young and cute!

> >

> > On a positive note - that AdvantEdge RTD that I thought was

going to

> > make me puke the other night actually tasted delicious to me

> > tonight! ) There's always a silver lining!

>

[Guest guest]

I used Bill's journal - no where in it does he ask for the calories or

nutrient ratios of what you're eating. The nutrition page doesn't have

spaces for any of that info. It's merely a log book, so you're accountable

for what you're eating. It is totally in keeping with BP's method, and

what has said.

He says to journal. I never saw anyplace where he recommends detailed

analysis.

n

At 06:32 AM 3/23/2006, you wrote:

>,

>

>I disagree, my journal is very helpful, and Bill even says to

>journal.

[Guest guest]

n,

I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only write what I eat and

that is all. I just focused on the end of 's post where she said that if

you journaled you are screwing yourself.

christine

Re: Re: palm, fist, finger counting

I used Bill's journal - no where in it does he ask for the calories or

nutrient ratios of what you're eating. The nutrition page doesn't have

spaces for any of that info. It's merely a log book, so you're accountable

for what you're eating. It is totally in keeping with BP's method, and

what has said.

He says to journal. I never saw anyplace where he recommends detailed

analysis.

n

At 06:32 AM 3/23/2006, you wrote:

>,

>

>I disagree, my journal is very helpful, and Bill even says to

>journal.

[Guest guest]

Well, then you took it incredibly out of context. :-) You missed the

part about needing a calculator, a computer, a slide rule, a measuring

cup, a food scale, a tape measure, colored pens, and graph paper for

every bite. It was humor.

Journaling, good. Obsessing wildly out of control, bad.

I actually highly recommend the BFL Daily Progress Reports for anybody

doing a first challenge. What I like about them is that there's no

place for you to enter the phase of the moon, the MET intensity of

" food shopping: with or without cart " , or the macronutrient ratio of

red leaf lettuce (again with the humor).

http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/journals.asp

On 3/23/06, Dorinski <funnygirl9@...> wrote:

> n,

> I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only write what I eat and

that is all. I just focused on the end of 's post where she said that if

you journaled you are screwing yourself.

>

> christine

[Guest guest]

Since I feel like I *sort of* started all this I just thought that I

would let you know that I was hungry as a horse ALL DAY yeterday

(after whining about feeling waaaayyyyy too full for the last few

days). It seemed like I was hungry even right after I ate and I had

changed nothing from the previous few days.

Lesson is, I think you just have to make a plan, stick to it for a

week (or two?) and then measure the results. If you like them, keep

it up, if you don't - duh - make a change!

As it happens I lost another 2 pounds this week! Now, my handy-

dandy calipers haven't arrived yet so, I'm not really sure if that

was water, fat, muscle or what but the trend seems good to me and,

for the moment, I'm blissfully happy! Having said that, I do think

I am going to add tracking the moon into my routine! I pretty sure

that will make ALL the difference! ;o)

Elise

(a day without sarcasm is like a day without sunshine)

> > n,

> > I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only write

what I eat and that is all. I just focused on the end of 's

post where she said that if you journaled you are screwing yourself.

> >

> > christine

>

[Guest guest]

Mothers often say they can tell when their babies are about to go

through a growing spurt because all of the sudden their hunger increases.

I wonder if we go through such 'spurts' as well. Working the muscles,

but they are resistent to growth...all of the sudden they want to pop

out some so we get hungry needing the extra calories to make it so.

In between times hunger is not as much of an issue.

Just a thought.

I have read recently that we women 'burn' an extra 100 calories a day

around the time of our periods, so excess hunger might be explained

there too.

Barbara

> > > n,

> > > I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only write

> what I eat and that is all. I just focused on the end of 's

> post where she said that if you journaled you are screwing yourself.

> > >

> > > christine

> >

>

[Guest guest]

WOW! That was a big DUH for me!!! Seriously!! My period is due to

start in two days (sorry if that TMI for some) but it just never

dawned on me that it could be wreaking havoc and playing sneaky

tricks on me like that!! Oh goody! Now I have one more thing to

track! :op

Duh! Duh! Duh!... she says while banging her head against the

refrigerator!

Thanks Barbara

p.s. - I like the idea that my muscles are just waiting to pop out

too! I'll be tracking that as well! ;o)

so let's see...

moon - check

monthly cycle - check

muscle popping - check

hee...hee...hee...hee!!!!!

> > > > n,

> > > > I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only

write

> > what I eat and that is all. I just focused on the end of

's

> > post where she said that if you journaled you are screwing

yourself.

> > > >

> > > > christine

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

BTW - I hope everyone realizes that I am poking fun only at MYSELF -

no one else. Most everything I say is either a little tongue-in-

cheek or has just a " tish " of joking sarcasm attached to it. Often

times that stuff doesn't come across well in the written word.

Just wanted to clear that up!

p.s. - is there any way to EDIT a message ?

> > > > > n,

> > > > > I wasnt saying that we needed detailed analysis, I only

> write

> > > what I eat and that is all. I just focused on the end of

> 's

> > > post where she said that if you journaled you are screwing

> yourself.

> > > > >

> > > > > christine

> > > >

> > >

> >

>