The Cholesterol Saga Continues

[Guest guest]

> From: Mcsiff@...

> Someone recently sent me this information on cholesterol, much of which

> stands in stark contrast with that previous article which I posted on dietary

> fat. No wonder everyone is so confused about what to do and how to live. No

> sooner does one research article appear on the dire risks of eating saturated

> fats and cholesterol, than another emerges which entirely contradicts it.

Thats the feeling I have had for a long time. If someone really knows whats

going on... how would anyone know which

expert to believe (hearing you say it just re-affirms it for me). Years ago as

a teen, I was -programmed- from something

I read in a health food store, that -all- fat was bad... and I avoided it for

20-years. I believe this even led to

me trying to be a vegetarian at one point. When research information is

offered in a format that makes it look like

fact, or thumped like a religion... people buy into it (as I did).

> So far, it appears as if overall high cholesterol and LDL/HDL ratio values

> indicate a higher risk of cardiac disease, but what is far less clear is how

> this is affected by dietary fat intake and how some people more than others

> appear to be able to cope with very large intake of any fats without

> increased incidence of heart disease. Some studies blame the cholesterol

> elevation on grain or refined carbohydrate intake, others blame it on

> saturated fats. Which research are we to believe?

> What really confused me is that I suffered my near fatal heart attack a few

> years ago as a daily exercising (aerobic and anaerobic) vegetarian with no

> major cardiac risk factors and who has been taking many of the popular

> antioxidant supplements for most of my adult life, plus a huge intake of

> fruits and vegetables from relatively " organic " sources. My lifestyle made

> the Dean Ornish recommendations look like a holiday camp. What more must one

> do to prevent heart disease?

I presume there are many causes for heart attacks, and you probably got there by

a different road than many. I've accepted

that nobody knows, so my solution is to try to eat right, exercise... and get my

rest too. Of course eating right is

a trick question. One thing I am certain of is that you cant get proper

nutrition from vitamin pills. Because only

certain nutrients are marketed for sale (new ones are also... when science

discovers a new one). My conception is that

there are hundreds of different phytonutrients and antioxidants is fresh fruits

and vegetables (hoping I'm using the

term correctly). And by far the best nutrition is fresh fruits and vegetables

(not over cooked).

My own personal theories (guessing) is that if you worked out really hard,

possibly your body's resistance got impaired...

and over time this could have led to infections that caused problems down the

road (you mentioned previously, that some

infection can play a role). Also, there is a lot of information out there

(true or not I dont know)... that implies

we should not eat meat (while I believe overconsumption has been the problem all

along that causes most health problems).

So if humans are more omnivore than vegetarian, you might have been lacking

something our body needs (and science has

not recognized), and can only get from eating meat. Or, who knows... maybe you

are better off today for your lifestyle.

I dont think the answer is knowable.

I remember mentioniong this previously on this list... that I thought taht sice

our bodies need b-12 to live... this

implied we were definitly not vegetarians (and it would then follow there would

be other beneficial nutritional factors

in a diet consisting of meat). However, I remember list discussions making me

think this could be a moot point (IE

our ancestors probably didnt wash their vegetables, and got the necessary

B-12... and maybe that wa sthe way we evolved

to get that nutrient... again... who knows).

Maybe the best advice is all things in moderation (something I have heard all my

life, and its hard to argue with).

BOb McGee

Atlanta

> Being crushed under a heavy clean & jerk, being wiped out in a car crash or

> catching some dreaded infection in Africa were more prominent in my

> consciousness than heart disease. Cardiac problems? Me? What an utter

> joke! I will always change into my lifting blue and red in the local

> telephone booth, right alongside Superman! I train almost every day of my

> life, use many restorative methods, eat " properly " , never take any drugs,

> have never experienced any moderately serious disorder.... and so and so

> forth. The power of randomness and nonlinearity of physiology now ring a lot

> more real to me than all these theories about fats and fitness. When nature

> beckons to you, there is nothing that you can do to ignore that call -

> therein lies as much proof as in all theories about the aetiology of heart

> disease.

>

> Would anyone like to make some sense about the whole cholesterol saga? So

> far, it appears to me that the amount of theory and belief far outweighs the

> amount of fact. How about some further references to confuse the situation

> even more?

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[Guest guest]

It seems many of us should rethink a great many things, cholesterol

included.

I can certainly empathize with Dr Siff's medical problem as my history has

many similarities.

About 6 months ago, I suffered a heart attack while sitting on the kitchen

floor, relatively inactive.

People I know considered me a poster boy for the American Heart Association.

I run, bicycle, eat

low fat foods, vegetables, and fruits, have blood work of a 10 yr old

according to my doctor, and

no blocked arteries. Go figure.

Bill Meszko

Fort Worth, Tx

The Cholesterol Saga Continues

Someone recently sent me this information on cholesterol, much of which

stands in stark contrast with that previous article which I posted on

dietary

fat. No wonder everyone is so confused about what to do and how to live.

No

sooner does one research article appear on the dire risks of eating

saturated

fats and cholesterol, than another emerges which entirely contradicts it.

So far, it appears as if overall high cholesterol and LDL/HDL ratio values

indicate a higher risk of cardiac disease, but what is far less clear is how

this is affected by dietary fat intake and how some people more than others

appear to be able to cope with very large intake of any fats without

increased incidence of heart disease. Some studies blame the cholesterol

elevation on grain or refined carbohydrate intake, others blame it on

saturated fats. Which research are we to believe?

What really confused me is that I suffered my near fatal heart attack a few

years ago as a daily exercising (aerobic and anaerobic) vegetarian with no

major cardiac risk factors and who has been taking many of the popular

antioxidant supplements for most of my adult life, plus a huge intake of

fruits and vegetables from relatively " organic " sources. My lifestyle made

the Dean Ornish recommendations look like a holiday camp. What more must

one

do to prevent heart disease?

Being crushed under a heavy clean & jerk, being wiped out in a car crash or

catching some dreaded infection in Africa were more prominent in my

consciousness than heart disease. Cardiac problems? Me? What an utter

joke! I will always change into my lifting blue and red in the local

telephone booth, right alongside Superman! I train almost every day of my

life, use many restorative methods, eat " properly " , never take any drugs,

have never experienced any moderately serious disorder.... and so and so

forth. The power of randomness and nonlinearity of physiology now ring a

lot

more real to me than all these theories about fats and fitness. When nature

beckons to you, there is nothing that you can do to ignore that call -

therein lies as much proof as in all theories about the aetiology of heart

disease.

Would anyone like to make some sense about the whole cholesterol saga? So

far, it appears to me that the amount of theory and belief far outweighs the

amount of fact. How about some further references to confuse the situation

even more?

--------------------

< http://heart.kumu.org/chol.html <http://heart.kumu.org/chol.html> >

Cholesterol

Present in the tissue of all animals, cholesterol is needed by the body as a

structural element in all cell membranes, a building block for some

hormones

and many other important functions. The problem is having too much of this

white, fat-like waxy material. The liver and other organs of most people

produce between 500 and 1000 milligrams of cholesterol a day, which is

usually more than the body needs. The extra amount is filtered out. Adding

cholesterol in our diet is seldom necessary.

All animal products contain cholesterol. When meat, fish, fowl, eggs or

dairy

products are eaten, additional cholesterol is added to that which we make

ourselves, and often this is more than the body's cholesterol filtering

system can eliminate.

Scientists are not in complete agreement about how cholesterol circulates

through our body, but they believe the liver makes bubbles of proteins

combined with triglycerides (fats) and cholesterol, called lipoproteins. A

Very Low Density Lipoprotein (VLDL), the largest of these, deposits

triglycerides in fat cells and muscles to be stored until they are needed.

When the VLDL releases triglycerides, the bubble becomes smaller and then

carries the cholesterol to the cells for metabolism. This smaller cell

changes to a Low Density Lipoprotein (LDL). LDL is often called bad

cholesterol, since it adds to the total cholesterol already in the

bloodstream.

When there is more cholesterol than is needed by the cells, the liver's LDL

receptors try to filter it out to be excreted as waste. Saturated fats can

prevent these LDL receptors from doing their job. There is often far more

cholesterol than can be filtered and eliminated, and it circulates in the

bloodstream, eventually accumulating on the walls of the arteries. These

accumulations build up small nodules, called plaque, that obstruct the flow

of blood. More information about this build-up can be found in the section

on atherosclerosis.

The liver also makes a High Density Lipoprotein (HDL), which holds less

cholesterol than the LDL. When this circulates it can pick up cholesterol

and bring it back to the liver, where some of it is filtered and

eliminated.

HDL is often called good cholesterol, since it can be beneficial in lowering

the total cholesterol in the blood. Exercise can be helpful in raising HDL

" good " cholesterol.

The cholesterol you get from what you eat, made outside your body, is never

good " cholesterol. When you consume foods that have cholesterol, which can

only come from animal products, you are adding to the chance of forming

plaque and clogging your arteries. Saturated fats can interfere with the

process that filters and eliminates cholesterol, increase the cholesterol

level in your body. Fats are explained in more detail here.

Studies of people in two countries illustrate how what we eat can affect

cholesterol. In China a wide, scientifically selected sample from every

single county, a total of 6,500 people, has been under examination since

1983. Their food intake and life habits have been carefully logged, and they

have been subjected to many medical diagnostic tests. The typical Chinese

eat very little animal protein or saturated fats. Their usual cholesterol

levels (average 88-165) are lower than Americans (average 155-274), and

coronary heart disease is rare among Chinese. Death from colon cancer is

also

extremely low. The Japanese, who traditionally consume very low levels of

saturated fats, have the lowest levels of cholesterol and heart disease of

all industrialized countries.

Compare this to Finland, which has the highest consumption of saturated

fats,

the highest cholesterol levels and the highest rate of heart disease. The

U.S. diet is only slightly less rich than the Finns, and we have the second

highest rate of heart disease. [Other studies state the Eskimos or Inuit

people have the highest inatke of dietary fats in the world, but do not have

anything near the highest incidence of heart disease. ?? Mel Siff]

Lowering cholesterol is best accomplished by changing the foods you eat.

Eliminating saturated fats and reducing the cholesterol in your diet are

both important to good health. Dr. Ornish, in his heart disease reversal

program, recommends eating foods with no more than 5 milligrams of

cholesterol a day, a small glass of non-fat milk or a 4 ounce serving of

fat-free yogurt. Even that small amount may make it difficult for you to

bring your cholesterol level below 150 mg/dl, where it needs to be to begin

to reverse the damage already caused in your arteries. It was once thought

that anything under 200 mg/dl was a safe cholesterol level, and many

physicians and health foundations are still satisfied with that number, but

more recent research shows the reversal process improves and the risk of

heart attack lowers most when the cholesterol level is below 150. Above

200,

for every point cholesterol is reduced, the risk of heart attack is lowered

by 2%.

For people in good health and who have no family history of heart disease or

other risk factors, there may be no immediate danger in consuming foods with

small amounts of cholesterol. But those with an elevated risk of heart

disease should avoid dietary cholesterol. Since saturated fats prevent the

body from removing excess cholesterol, these also should be reduced or

eliminated. A national consumer education organization warned that a medium

size bag of buttered popcorn sold at movie theaters may have more saturated

fat than a breakfast of bacon and eggs, a large hamburger with french fries

for lunch and a steak dinner with all the trimmings. Sound impossible? Movie

theater popcorn is typically popped in coconut or palm oil, extremely high

in saturated fat.

Other things can be done to lower cholesterol beside watching what you eat.

An important benefit will likely happen automatically to most people when

they follow a proper diet and take off a few pounds. Being overweight leads

to higher LDL and total cholesterol. Most people find that for every two

pounds of excess fat that is lost, one point (mg./dl.) of total cholesterol

is also lost. Just losing 20 pounds will likely reduce your cholesterol by

10 points. In Healing Heart support groups overweight most people who

followed the diet faithfully and who started a moderate exercise program

lost

an average of over 2 pounds a week for the first 10 weeks - and they kept

it

off. When your body reaches the weight that is best for you, you should

still be able to eat all you want of the proper foods, without counting

calories, and remain at that weight.

Exercise is important in reducing cholesterol. A daily program of aerobic

exercise will help you to lower and keep down your cholesterol level. As

you

exercise aerobically, your blood pumps through the arteries at a higher

rate,

and the High Density Lipoproteins (HDL) can carry more cholesterol away.

Aerobic exercise at least 40 minutes a day, at least five days a week, is

needed to get maximum benefits in reversing heart disease and lowering

risk.

Cholesterol-lowering medications are commonly recommended.. If prescribed by

your physician, continue to take them as directed. As you follow all the

elements recommended here and your cholesterol goes down, your doctor may

wish to gradually lower the dosage of some medications. Many Healing Heart

support group participants were able to stop taking their medications

completely after a short while. Don't alter your medications on your own;

always discuss any change in medications you may want to make with your

doctor. If your physician doesn't want you to reduce the medication, ask

why. If the answer doesn't satisfy you, it is better to look for a different

doctor than to keep the same one and ignore the advice given.

Some over-the-counter preparations claim to reduce cholesterol, and they may

possibly help, though there are often unwanted side-effects. Psyllium based

supplements, for example, can cause some people to have diarrhea, stomach

cramps and a bloated feeling. Using psyllium instead of eating fiber- rich

foods can cause some people to depend on a daily dose to keep their bowels

moving normally. Psyllium is mostly dietary fiber, but a low-fat vegetarian

diet will give you all the fiber you need for reducing cholesterol and to

maintain normal bowel function............

For years we've been hearing the advice to eat chicken or fish instead of

beef, pork or lamb. What is hard for many people to accept is that the

leaner

the meat, the more cholesterol it contains. Each ounce of lean beef will

have

between 20 and 25 mg. of cholesterol, depending on the cut, but an ounce of

lean chicken with skin removed can have more than beef, often has 25 mg. An

ounce of dark turkey meat contains 32 mg. of cholesterol, and fish contains

from 10 mg. to over 100 mg. of cholesterol per ounce (often 5 times that of

steak). All animal products contain cholesterol but no plant foods have

measurable amounts of cholesterol.

Physicians at the Weimar Institute have determined that the average American

male eats foods containing about 500 milligrams of cholesterol a day, about

the same amount as his body makes internally. The typical American female

eats about 350 milligrams of cholesterol. Not one milligram of that is

needed

by the body, which makes all it needs.

Vegans, strict vegetarians who eat no dairy or egg products, consume no

cholesterol in their diet. Numerous studies show that vegetarians live

longer

and have a fewer heart attacks and less coronary artery disease, diabetes

and

many types of cancer than the general population, the meat eaters. Many

studies estimate that 70% of these diseases could have been prevented with

changes in eating habits.

Much of what follows will explain how to reduce cholesterol and establish a

lifestyle for optimum health........

------------------

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

Supertraining/

<Supertraining/>

[Guest guest]

> People I know considered me a poster boy for the American Heart

Association.

> I run, bicycle, eat

> low fat foods, vegetables, and fruits, have blood work of a 10 yr old

> according to my doctor, and

> no blocked arteries. Go figure.

since the heart muscle feeds preferentially on saturated fats, it may be

some heart attack cases are simply short of them. ran out of fuel.

andrew campbell

brisbane australia