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So Monday I begin Challenge 2, and I'm kind of overwhelmed and nervous. I would

really like to lose 10-12 pounds and lose a size, down to a comfortable 12

pants. On Challenge 1 I barely lost 1/2 " in my pants, maybe 5 pounds from 165 to

160.

I'm overwhelmed about which changes to make.

EXERCISE: I was doing the 20 min HIIT T, Th, Sa, and the weights M W F as

directed. I was lifting heavy and not puking, but really hitting 9 and 10's. I

was also doing Jazzercise on Sat and Sun. WHERE/WHEN should I add more cardio?

a. before or after a HIIT workout on Tu or Thu I could add a step class?

b. after the weights I could add a 20-min non-hiit cardio exercise bike ???

c. OR on M-W-F I could do a 10-min HIIT at 7am at home to wake up my furnace,

and then do my weights at 9:15am at the gym ???

I didn't really want to be in the gym all day, and that's why I originally liked

BFL, now it's getting to be a lot of cardio.

FOOD: So the overwhelming question is more calories or less????

a. I will be limiting my Free day to 2000-2500 calories

b. I had been eating 1300-1500 cal for Challenge 1, maybe br rice and potatoes

in one day lunch and dinner, no processed carbs, maybe too much salty foods

(Trader Joe's sauces). My ratios were pretty good, maybe 20fat, 45carb 35prot

c. suggested string cheese or cc and celery: so should I leave off the

carb on some snacks?

d. Should I consciously have 1200 cal days and 1600 cal days?

e. How can I keep this simple?

I was having no results on WeightWatcher 1100-1200 calories, and not really

results in either pounds or inches in challenge 1 and I don't want to weight to

week 6 before I make changes. I'm reading the Venuto book, but on first read, it

says eat more calories eat less calories.

I'm willing to eat clean and not cheat, although my cheats were mostly

authorized foods. I'd really like to find a system... a variation on BFL, that

is simple and causes results, and that I can live with.

ready to resume; it's been fun taking a break from the workouts and the timed

eating; I do like the 12 week on program, 1 week of a bit of a break. I can live

with this.

thanks for your support and patience.

Etana, 160 lbs, 59 years strong, a professional dieter and binger looking to

jolt my system back into eating through BFL.

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This is going to scare you senseless, but I would stop counting

calories altogether. It's not helping you any. If you wing it, you'll

naturally have some days that are far lower than you would currently

allow (much bigger deficit) and some that are higher (much better

zig-zag). That way your daily calorie intake will be based on your

hunger, your activity level, and your results rather than arbitrary

numbers that you're picking out.

Also, I can't make this point strongly enough :-) , you DON'T have to

be in the gym all day. Your overall daily activity level is more

important than how many formal cardio sessions and classes and

workouts you can schedule. If you have time and you feel like it, an

extra 10-20 minutes on an elliptical or bike won't hurt, an occasional

fun group exercise class won't hurt, but what's really important is

how often you're standing, walking, moving, climbing, lifting,

tapping, cleaning, playing, pacing, and generally active throughout

the day. Plenty of people workout for an hour and then they're

completely sedentary for the other 23 hours of the day. That doesn't

help your metabolism any. Rather than filling your day up with more

classes and cardio sessions, why not get a pedometer and shoot for the

recommended 10,000 steps per day?

http://www.thewalkingsite.com/10000steps.html

Try adding a daily walk, planting a garden, joining a team, learning a

sport, adopting a pet, volunteering. Find an activity that's more

productive and fun than just watching the numbers click by on a cardio

machine. What have you always wanted to do? Ballroom dancing?

Horseback riding? Ice skating? Hiking? Yoga? Figure it out and go for

it.

The weight loss thing is a lot like waiting for water to boil. The

more you stand there and stare at it and analyze it, the more

agonizing the wait. But if you wander off and do something fun,

suddenly you're boiling.

Do I sound like Dr. Phil or what? LOL

On 2/24/06, etana.finkler01@... <etana.finkler01@...> wrote:

> So Monday I begin Challenge 2, and I'm kind of overwhelmed and nervous. I

would really like to lose 10-12 pounds and lose a size, down to a comfortable 12

pants. On Challenge 1 I barely lost 1/2 " in my pants, maybe 5 pounds from 165 to

160.

> I'm overwhelmed about which changes to make.

> EXERCISE: I was doing the 20 min HIIT T, Th, Sa, and the weights M W F as

directed. I was lifting heavy and not puking, but really hitting 9 and 10's. I

was also doing Jazzercise on Sat and Sun. WHERE/WHEN should I add more cardio?

> a. before or after a HIIT workout on Tu or Thu I could add a step class?

> b. after the weights I could add a 20-min non-hiit cardio exercise bike ???

> c. OR on M-W-F I could do a 10-min HIIT at 7am at home to wake up my furnace,

and then do my weights at 9:15am at the gym ???

>

> I didn't really want to be in the gym all day, and that's why I originally

liked BFL, now it's getting to be a lot of cardio.

> FOOD: So the overwhelming question is more calories or less????

> a. I will be limiting my Free day to 2000-2500 calories

> b. I had been eating 1300-1500 cal for Challenge 1, maybe br rice and potatoes

in one day lunch and dinner, no processed carbs, maybe too much salty foods

(Trader Joe's sauces). My ratios were pretty good, maybe 20fat, 45carb 35prot

> c. suggested string cheese or cc and celery: so should I leave off the

carb on some snacks?

> d. Should I consciously have 1200 cal days and 1600 cal days?

> e. How can I keep this simple?

> I was having no results on WeightWatcher 1100-1200 calories, and not really

results in either pounds or inches in challenge 1 and I don't want to weight to

week 6 before I make changes. I'm reading the Venuto book, but on first read, it

says eat more calories eat less calories.

> I'm willing to eat clean and not cheat, although my cheats were mostly

authorized foods. I'd really like to find a system... a variation on BFL, that

is simple and causes results, and that I can live with.

> ready to resume; it's been fun taking a break from the workouts and the timed

eating; I do like the 12 week on program, 1 week of a bit of a break. I can live

with this.

> thanks for your support and patience.

> Etana, 160 lbs, 59 years strong, a professional dieter and binger looking to

jolt my system back into eating through BFL.

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Share on other sites

> I'm overwhelmed about which changes to make.

> EXERCISE: I was doing the 20 min HIIT T, Th, Sa, and the

> weights M W F as directed. I was lifting heavy and not puking,

> but really hitting 9 and 10's. I was also doing Jazzercise on

> Sat and Sun. WHERE/WHEN should I add more cardio?

You mentioned Tom Venuto (about eating) and I am a fan of his

writings - on the subject of 20 min HIIT cardio he says, " If your

goal is better health and a decent level of cardiovascular fitness,

then three days of cardio a week for 20 minutes IS all you need.

However, if your goal is to lose a lot of body fat as quickly as

possible, then you're probably going to need a lot more than 20

minutes (unless you're one of those genetically blessed few with a

fast metabolism who loses fat easily.) I have never seen anyone lose

a lot of fat by doing just three days a week of cardio. On the other

hand, I have never seen anyone do six days a week of cardio for 45

minutes and NOT lose a lot of body fat. " The entire article is

here: http://www.femalemuscle.com/q_a/question16.htm

To keep it simple I would try his advice - cardio (with varied

intensities, not a walk in the park) at least 6 x a week, for 45-60

minutes. Forget the extra classes and making it all difficult - keep

it simple and give it a try. Oh btw way, keep doing your weights 3x

a week too. If need be do the cardio on these weight days at a

different time (you mentioned you have a bike at home)- also try

some variety like jumping rope, stairs, levels on the treadmill or

incorporating outdoors stuff. Changing it up and adding variety is

important - if you do the same old same old, dont expect different

results! Step it up a bit!

I agree with s total 10,000 steps suggestion too - alot of

people think they are active because of the gym stuff they do but

they are pretty sedentary the rest of the time. Fit in activity

wherever whenever you can. A fifteen minute walk on your break,

running up some stairs, ya know even parking your car farther away

all adds up in the big picture.

> a. I will be limiting my Free day to 2000-2500 calories

I think this is where most people shoot themselves in the foot.

Remember you have to create a CONSISTANT caloric *deficit* to lose

weight. Think of where you want to be, how to get there, and if you

need to omit the whole hog freeday for a free type meal or a couple

of cherished Cadbury eggs :-) I recall one woman I knew who had lost

over 100lbs and when asked the inevitable how(?) she said she eats a

square of really fine/rich chocolate each day(kept it in her purse!)

as a treat and knowing she had this to look forward to made it

all 'bearable'. You have to find your own 'reward' somehow without

overdoing or undoing the weeks hardwork!!

> b. I had been eating 1300-1500 cal for Challenge 1, maybe br rice

and potatoes in one day lunch and dinner, no processed carbs, maybe

too much salty foods (Trader Joe's sauces). My ratios were pretty

good, maybe 20fat, 45carb 35prot

Zigzagging calories is good - it challenges your body to keep up

with the variety. Put more of it into your daily counts - have a few

low days and then even some higher(1100 to say 1800 variance? while

still keeping the weekly total the same). This zigzagging also

counteracts the physical need (or theory) of having a 'freeday' to

up ones calories like why not up your calories with good foods

instead of sweets and snacks? Hmm makes sense to me :-)

> c. suggested string cheese or cc and celery: so should

> I leave off the carb on some snacks?

I dont think leaving off a carb is the way - I think knowing the

difference in carb choices is important. You want quantity over

calorie density? Or calorie density over portion amount? Thats a

choice, but omitting them isnt the way to go I think. Again variety -

your body learns how to process the same old foods, throw it a curve

now and then.

> d. Should I consciously have 1200 cal days and 1600 cal days?

> e. How can I keep this simple?

This is where and I differ - I think for this second challenge

you could track calories. Once you get a handle on it it *is*

simple, and you can make it simpler by making up beforehand

typical 'groupings' or combos of foods you normally eat together at

varying calories per portion for higher or lower days. (like a

higher day I would eat 1 cup of cottage cheese with a whole portion

of fruit with some flaxseeds in it, on a lower day I would cut that

to 1/2 cup cc and say 1/2 apple or whatever you get the idea, yet

its the same foods but they vary)I dont know if you can do this for

FitDay, but in DietPower you can do this and just drag drop them

into your daily totals. Very easy. I think being even more aware of

your daily food values is the way to go. It doesnt go in your mouth

unless you know how many calories and youve logged it. :-)

Have a read thru the Hussman site too - its always updated and he

ahs some great info on stepping things up to the next level,

especially in this section called " Unleash The Secret Weapon " :

http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TSSecretWeapon.html

Guess this is long enough - I could go on and on sometimes ;-)

joni

---------------------------------------------------

*Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long*

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Cardio before or after weights?

deb

-----Original Message-----

From: jgrrl2 <no_reply >

Subj: Re: What adjustments to cause results?

Date: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:56 pm

Size: 4K

> I'm overwhelmed about which changes to make.

> EXERCISE: I was doing the 20 min HIIT T, Th, Sa, and the

> weights M W F as directed. I was lifting heavy and not puking,

> but really hitting 9 and 10's. I was also doing Jazzercise on

> Sat and Sun. WHERE/WHEN should I add more cardio?

You mentioned Tom Venuto (about eating) and I am a fan of his

writings - on the subject of 20 min HIIT cardio he says, " If your

goal is better health and a decent level of cardiovascular fitness,

then three days of cardio a week for 20 minutes IS all you need.

However, if your goal is to lose a lot of body fat as quickly as

possible, then you're probably going to need a lot more than 20

minutes (unless you're one of those genetically blessed few with a

fast metabolism who loses fat easily.) I have never seen anyone lose

a lot of fat by doing just three days a week of cardio. On the other

hand, I have never seen anyone do six days a week of cardio for 45

minutes and NOT lose a lot of body fat. " The entire article is

here: http://www.femalemuscle.com/q_a/question16.htm

To keep it simple I would try his advice - cardio (with varied

intensities, not a walk in the park) at least 6 x a week, for 45-60

minutes. Forget the extra classes and making it all difficult - keep

it simple and give it a try. Oh btw way, keep doing your weights 3x

a week too. If need be do the cardio on these weight days at a

different time (you mentioned you have a bike at home)- also try

some variety like jumping rope, stairs, levels on the treadmill or

incorporating outdoors stuff. Changing it up and adding variety is

important - if you do the same old same old, dont expect different

results! Step it up a bit!

I agree with s total 10,000 steps suggestion too - alot of

people think they are active because of the gym stuff they do but

they are pretty sedentary the rest of the time. Fit in activity

wherever whenever you can. A fifteen minute walk on your break,

running up some stairs, ya know even parking your car farther away

all adds up in the big picture.

> a. I will be limiting my Free day to 2000-2500 calories

I think this is where most people shoot themselves in the foot.

Remember you have to create a CONSISTANT caloric *deficit* to lose

weight. Think of where you want to be, how to get there, and if you

need to omit the whole hog freeday for a free type meal or a couple

of cherished Cadbury eggs :-) I recall one woman I knew who had lost

over 100lbs and when asked the inevitable how(?) she said she eats a

square of really fine/rich chocolate each day(kept it in her purse!)

as a treat and knowing she had this to look forward to made it

all 'bearable'. You have to find your own 'reward' somehow without

overdoing or undoing the weeks hardwork!!

> b. I had been eating 1300-1500 cal for Challenge 1, maybe br rice

and potatoes in one day lunch and dinner, no processed carbs, maybe

too much salty foods (Trader Joe's sauces). My ratios were pretty

good, maybe 20fat, 45carb 35prot

Zigzagging calories is good - it challenges your body to keep up

with the variety. Put more of it into your daily counts - have a few

low days and then even some higher(1100 to say 1800 variance? while

still keeping the weekly total the same). This zigzagging also

counteracts the physical need (or theory) of having a 'freeday' to

up ones calories like why not up your calories with good foods

instead of sweets and snacks? Hmm makes sense to me :-)

> c. suggested string cheese or cc and celery: so should

> I leave off the carb on some snacks?

I dont think leaving off a carb is the way - I think knowing the

difference in carb choices is important. You want quantity over

calorie density? Or calorie density over portion amount? Thats a

choice, but omitting them isnt the way to go I think. Again variety -

your body learns how to process the same old foods, throw it a curve

now and then.

> d. Should I consciously have 1200 cal days and 1600 cal days?

> e. How can I keep this simple?

This is where and I differ - I think for this second challenge

you could track calories. Once you get a handle on it it *is*

simple, and you can make it simpler by making up beforehand

typical 'groupings' or combos of foods you normally eat together at

varying calories per portion for higher or lower days. (like a

higher day I would eat 1 cup of cottage cheese with a whole portion

--- message truncated ---

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You really want to do cardio after weights if you're doing them

together. Weight training requires a lot of glycogen. That's stored

carbohydrate in your muscles and liver. When you lift weights first,

you burn up the glycogen supply as your initial fuel source. Then once

you start your cardio your body will immediately dip into your fat

stores for energy. It's a cool trick!

If you do it the other way around (cardio first), you spend the first

20 minutes burning glycogen, not fat. Then you move on to weights

where you actually need the glycogen. It's not there, your energy

level is blah, your weight workout is weak, and your fat burning is

compromised.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a 5-10 minute warm-up on the treadmill

before lifting weights, but if you're planning to really scare your

fat cells do it after you lift.

On 2/26/06, cherishtheday06@... <cherishtheday06@...> wrote:

>

> Cardio before or after weights?

>

> deb

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