Spirit of The Olympics and Discrimination

[Guest guest]

Dave,

Are you trying to tell me that because you are an

amputee that you are not allowed to compete against

people with two legs? Are these the rules and

regulations that are stipulated by the USOC or IOC?

Please help me to understand your plight better.

Mark Shropshire

Ellicott City, MD

ragnar30@...

--- Dave Fales <tcourage@...> wrote:

> What spirit of the games the spirit of the game is

> gone- the athletes are not

> necessarily the best of the best -it often depends

> on whose parents have the most

> money. It is even concerns how many functional body

> parts you have - in many

> ways, we have turned the Games into discrimination.

>

> Here is one scenario. An American is good at his

> sport and he dedicates himself

> one hundred percent to his sport, training 8 hours

> a day - when he goes to

> every competition and world cup event, he takes home

> the gold, he decides he

> would like to represent his country in the Olympics,

> so he goes to the trial and

> beats every one there. Then, the team coaches walk

> up to him and says:

>

> " Well, good news and bad news --the good news is

> that you would be the best person our team

> could have -- you would for sure win a gold, but the

> bad news is that you

> have black skin and we have a rule that to be on the

> team you have to have

> natural white skin. " What would happen if that

> took place in sport in the

> USA today?? it would lead to the biggest law suites

> and every TV station in

> America would cover it. Congress would demand

> investigations and the President

> most likely would be involved. It would become a

> major issue.

>

> OK, let's now take that same scenario and this time

> the guy happens to be an amputee

> and he is told: " Well, we have rules that you have

> to have two natural sound legs, but

> we don't allow people with disabilities because you

> have it easier. "

>

> Yea right, I have had races on two skies and was on

> the junior Olympics and the US ski team

> and know racing on one leg - we have it harder but

> we can still kick beat the two legged

> competitors. TV won't cover it, Congress says, well

> you have your own games, the Paralympics.

>

> Nothing is ever done. That is often the real spirit

> behind the Olympics!

>

> Dave Fales

> Cody Wyo.

>

> Team courage

> Long Distance runner, cyclist,

> Triathlon, Track and field specialist

> major sponsors The Athletes Foot, Bighorn basin O

> and P Center

> Coca-Cola , Challenged Athletes Foundation

> Looking for sponsors and donations

> Next major Goal Paralympics 2004

>

>

> --------------

>

> Mel Siff:

>

> > This further snippet of Winter Olympics news,

> along with reports of parents

> > abusing or murdering other parents at school

> sporting events, suggests that

> > there should be more sportsmanship than

> spectatorship in our schools and in

> > our society. What a shame that various IOC and

> allied officials, as well as

> > members of the public should allow personal

> agendas, lack of discipline and

> > dubious morality to have marred the spirit of the

> Games!

> >

> > -------------------

> >

> > Olympics: Police Fire Rubber Bullets at Rioters

> >

> > February 24, 2002

> >

> > By Laurie Nealin and Mehaffey

> >

> > SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) - Riot police fired

> rubber bullets as they tried

> to

> > disperse a rampaging crowd in central Salt Lake

> City, venue of the Winter

> > Olympics, early on Sunday.

> >

> > More than 30 arrests were made, police said. The

> crowd of young people broke

> > several shop windows, trashed a police car and

> broke windows at the

> > courthouse, they said...............

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dave Fales wrote:

<What spirit of the games the spirit of the game is gone- the athletes are not

necessarily the best of the best -it often depends on whose parents have the

most

money. It is even concerns how many functional body parts you have - in many

ways, we have turned the Games into discrimination......>

**You say the spirit of the Games is gone. So, in the past how was it

different?

Didn't international level athletes always require resources, parental or

governmental or otherwise? How is this relevant to your discrimination

assertion?

Have the rules changed to disallow athletes without limbs? What about

the use of prosthetics?

[A few years back, there was a huge discussion about some disabled powerlifter

who was not allowed to take part in bench pressing competitions because someone

felt that he could not keep his feet on the floor, as defined by the rules.

Some of

the powerlifters on this list will be better qualified to add more details.

Then there

was that injured or partially disabled golfer who initially was not allowed to

drive

from hole to hole in a golf cart. Lifters who are missing fingers are not

allowed to

use straps to enable them to grip a bar even just to take them to the level

where

they can compete equally with the same grip as others who can grasp the bar - if

you need any sort of prosthesis, then you have to run (?) along to the

Paralympics.

Yet, if an able-bodied athlete has an injured knee, a sprained wrist or any such

injury

you are invariably allowed to wear some sort of bracing, bandaging or

" prosthesis " ,

as long as the medical/technical team has approved of its use. As a matter of

interest,

have any blind or deaf athletes produced performances that would have placed

them in

any " able-bodied " Olympic team? If so, have any such athletes been selected or

been allowed

to compete? If not, then Dave's complaints may well be justified. Anyway, if

he proves

to be superior to any two-legged skier, why should he be excluded from

selection, simply

because the rules say that amputees are illegal aliens in such events? Mel

Siff]

Skip Dallen

Covina, CA

------------------

[Guest guest]

Well, they have rules like you for skiing -- you have to ski on two natural

sound legs -- for my other events for track and field you have to run with two

natural sound legs. For swimming you have to swim with all four natural sound

limbs in the water. All sports have something like that. I know a friend who

was

in weighlifting, where they have a rule about two natural sound legs on the

ground at all times. What would happen if they had a rule where you have to

have

a specific natural skin colour; what would people say?

Dave Fales

Cody Wyoming

Team courage

Long Distance runner, cyclist,

Triathlon, Track and field specialist

major sponsors The Athletes Foot, Bighorn basin O and P Center

Coca-Cola , Challenged Athletes Foundation

---------

From: Mark Shropshire <ragnar30@...>

> Dave,

> Are you trying to tell me that because you are an

> amputee that you are not allowed to compete against

> people with two legs? Are these the rules and

> regulations that are stipulated by the USOC or IOC?

> Please help me to understand your plight better.

>

> Mark Shropshire

> Ellicott City, MD

> ragnar30@...

[Guest guest]

Dale wrote,

>Well, they have rules like you for skiing -- you have to ski on two natural

>sound legs -- for my other events for track and field you have to run with two

>natural sound legs. For swimming you have to swim with all four natural

>sound

>limbs in the water. All sports have something like that. I know a

>friend who was

>in weighlifting, where they have a rule about two natural sound legs on the

>ground at all times. What would happen if they had a rule where you have

>to have

>a specific natural skin colour; what would people say?

How do you propose judging a deadlift for a double amputee? If they were to

use artificial legs of normal length than I would have no problem. But in

the deadlift it would be possible to have a double amputee fulfill the

requirement of the lift without even lifting the weight. That is not very

fair.

I agree with your point in theory, but in reality many sports have a

requirement to fulfill the sport to have certain limbs - legs, for example.

Having said that, if there is no mechanical advantage imparted by an

artificial limb I personally would have no problem allowing it in. For

example, if a skier who had lost a leg used two skis which conformed to the

legal requirements of the sport, one of which is attached to an artificial

limb and can beat a skier with two natural legs it seems ridiculous not to

let them compete. OTOH, I wouldn't let them compete using one ski.

Are you saying ParaOlympic participants beat the regular Olympic

participants in the running events, such as 100M? I see by your sig file

you are a distance runner. How about the 10K?

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA

[Guest guest]

I went to the international ski- & swimming federations websites and

nowhere could I find any rule like the one you mentioned.

Could you post a reference?

Niels Stærkjær

Denmark

----- Original Message -----

From: " Team courage " <tcourage@...>

> Well, they have rules like you for skiing -- you have to ski on two natural

> sound legs -- for my other events for track and field you have to run with two

> natural sound legs. For swimming you have to swim with all four natural

sound

> limbs in the water. All sports have something like that. I know a friend

who was

> in weighlifting, where they have a rule about two natural sound legs on the

> ground at all times. What would happen if they had a rule where you have to

have

> a specific natural skin colour; what would people say?

>

> Dave Fales

---------

From: Mark Shropshire <ragnar30@...>

>

> > Dave,

> > Are you trying to tell me that because you are an

> > amputee that you are not allowed to compete against

> > people with two legs? Are these the rules and

> > regulations that are stipulated by the USOC or IOC?

> > Please help me to understand your plight better.

> >

> > Mark Shropshire

> > Ellicott City, MD

> > ragnar30@...

>

[Guest guest]

Mel,

I know of two athletes who have competed for their countries, one

legally blind and one deaf, I am unable to remember their names offhand. The

American female1500m runner at the last Olympics was legally blind, I think

she made the final. Australia had a deaf decathlete compete in the 1992

Olympics.

Pedrick,

Adelaide,

South Australia.

Re: Spirit of The Olympics and Discrimination

> Dave Fales wrote:

>

> <What spirit of the games the spirit of the game is gone- the athletes are

not

> necessarily the best of the best -it often depends on whose parents have

the most

> money. It is even concerns how many functional body parts you have - in

many

> ways, we have turned the Games into discrimination......>

>

> **You say the spirit of the Games is gone. So, in the past how was it

different?

>

> Didn't international level athletes always require resources, parental or

> governmental or otherwise? How is this relevant to your discrimination

> assertion?

>

> Have the rules changed to disallow athletes without limbs? What about

> the use of prosthetics?

>

> [A few years back, there was a huge discussion about some disabled

powerlifter

> who was not allowed to take part in bench pressing competitions because

someone

> felt that he could not keep his feet on the floor, as defined by the

rules. Some of

> the powerlifters on this list will be better qualified to add more

details. Then there

> was that injured or partially disabled golfer who initially was not

allowed to drive

> from hole to hole in a golf cart. Lifters who are missing fingers are not

allowed to

> use straps to enable them to grip a bar even just to take them to the

level where

> they can compete equally with the same grip as others who can grasp the

bar - if

> you need any sort of prosthesis, then you have to run (?) along to the

Paralympics.

>

> Yet, if an able-bodied athlete has an injured knee, a sprained wrist or

any such injury

> you are invariably allowed to wear some sort of bracing, bandaging or

" prosthesis " ,

> as long as the medical/technical team has approved of its use. As a

matter of interest,

> have any blind or deaf athletes produced performances that would have

placed them in

> any " able-bodied " Olympic team? If so, have any such athletes been

selected or been allowed

> to compete? If not, then Dave's complaints may well be justified.

Anyway, if he proves

> to be superior to any two-legged skier, why should he be excluded from

selection, simply

> because the rules say that amputees are illegal aliens in such events?

Mel Siff]

>

> Skip Dallen

> Covina, CA

>

> ------------------

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Dave,

Thanks for helping me to understand the rules of

competition better, and what you are up against. It

must take a lot of guts to get back out there and

compete after going through what you had to go

through.

Do you think that part of the reason for these rules

is that in some cases having a prosthesis might turn

in to an advantage for some athletes? Just wondering

if it would. I am thinking of lever systems and

lowered fatigability due to less resistance of some

movements. Maybe some biomechanists on the list could

shed some possible light on this for me.

Also, as far as the competition goes, if you are

better than a person with two legs, and your times are

better on the same course under the same conditions, I

don't think it should matter. Unless the fact that

you have a prosthesis gives you an advantage.

I hope what you are looking for is an equal

opportunity, not special treatment.

By the way - you are a lucky guy to live in Cody. I

used to visit as young kid many times on the way to

Yellowstone!

Mark Shropshire

Ellicott City MD.

--- Team courage <tcourage@...> wrote:

> Well, they have rules like you for skiing -- you

> have to ski on two natural

> sound legs -- for my other events for track and

> field you have to run with two

> natural sound legs. For swimming you have to swim

> with all four natural sound

> limbs in the water. All sports have something like

> that. I know a friend who was

> in weighlifting, where they have a rule about two

> natural sound legs on the

> ground at all times. What would happen if they had

> a rule where you have to have

> a specific natural skin colour; what would people

> say?

>

> Dave Fales

> Cody Wyoming

>

> Team courage

> Long Distance runner, cyclist,

> Triathlon, Track and field specialist

> major sponsors The Athletes Foot, Bighorn basin O

> and P Center

> Coca-Cola , Challenged Athletes Foundation

>

[Guest guest]

There was also a Deaf swimmer competing for the US at the last summer

olympics.

Pedrick

> I know of two athletes who have competed for their countries, one

> legally blind and one deaf, I am unable to remember their names offhand. The

> American female1500m runner at the last Olympics was legally blind, I think

> she made the final. Australia had a deaf decathlete compete in the 1992

> Olympics.

De Lorenzo

....City?

[Guest guest]

There was also a Deaf swimmer named Terence Parkin competing for South

Africa at the Sydney Olympics. He did very well, too -- won a silver

medal in the 200m breaststroke.

DeLorenzo

New York, NY

------------

Pedrick

I know of two athletes who have competed for their countries, one

legally blind and one deaf, I am unable to remember their names offhand. The

American female1500m runner at the last Olympics was legally blind, I think

she made the final. Australia had a deaf decathlete compete in the 1992

Olympics.