you yelled at me

[Guest guest]

I used to hear this all the time from my son. I virtually never yelled at him. But if I disagreed or criticized his behavior however gently, he said I yelled at him and would become hysterical. Drove me crazy.

Judy in Baltimore

Re: detachment vs reassurances questions

Hi, Oh my God! Just last night I had similiar "mood" type episode with my 4 year old OCD son. He does the screaming and is suddenly out of control, When I ask him why he is so upset he says "You yelled at me". This couldn't be further from the truth! He almost seems delusional. This type of event then puts him on edge for the remainder of the day. In fact, it happened to carry over into today. I feel like I am on eggshells, not knowing if he is on the edge and what will set him off. I often wonder if this is related or caused by the OCD. Any thoughts or insight on this. It is very difficult to know how to react. He too can be fine one day and not the next. Thanks O You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , Vivian Stembridge, and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Ditto to this percieved yelling. I thought he meant

the tone of my voice, but even if I lower AND have a

I'm not angry tone, I have been accused of yelling. A

defense our son has resorted to using at times is,

telling me to " be quiet " , or state, " I'm not listening

to you " , or humming so he can't hear my voice. He will

also slam doors to get away from my voice. All these

behaviors are unacceptable, but I have learned when he

is this stressed to BACK OFF. It is so hard for

communication! But when he is " this way " it only makes

matters worse to try and continue. A cool down period

is needed.

Vivian

--- Judy Lovchik <jlovchik@...> wrote:

> I used to hear this all the time from my son. I

> virtually never yelled at him. But if I disagreed

> or criticized his behavior however gently, he said I

> yelled at him and would become hysterical. Drove me

> crazy.

>

> Judy in Baltimore

> Re: detachment vs

> reassurances questions

>

>

> Hi,

> Oh my God! Just last night I had similiar " mood "

> type episode with my 4 year

> old OCD son. He does the screaming and is

> suddenly out of control, When I

> ask him why he is so upset he says " You yelled at

> me " . This couldn't be

> further from the truth! He almost seems

> delusional. This type of event then

> puts him on edge for the remainder of the day. In

> fact, it happened to carry

> over into today. I feel like I am on eggshells,

> not knowing if he is on the

> edge and what will set him off. I often wonder if

> this is related or caused

> by the OCD. Any thoughts or insight on this. It

> is very difficult to know

> how to react. He too can be fine one day and not

> the next.

> Thanks

> O

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/01 1:35:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lyricaldreamer@... writes:

<<

So, yeah.... they have ALOT on their minds... and when you say 'Don't forget

to brush' or any ordinary 'parenting thing' that I used to TAKE FOR GRANTED

with my older sons--- these OCD kids freak out.

It has truly been the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered in my

entire life. I can't have a simple 'normal' conversation with my own child.

Thank God for THERAPISTS!!!

Joni

>>

Hi Joni,

I never thought of it in that way! It definitely makes sense. I guess this

fits in with all the other ordinary things that I know he is so super

sensitive about. Has your therapist offered any suggestions on how to work

on these things? It is so upsetting to me when calls me " hating

mom. " I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this one. I've tried

ignoring it, agreeing with it (out of desperation), and asking him why he

says that. Can't get an answer. Let me know if you have any other ideas???

Take care,

/NY

[Guest guest]

Wow, Joni, that sheds alot of light on why an ocd child can seem so

frustratingly obstinate, and yet not really be acting defiant.

Grace

> In a message dated 8/31/01 11:49:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> larkspurmr@a... writes:

>

>

> > I know I'm not being judgmental or critical...just trying to

discuss things

> > that come up like " Did you study for your test tomorrow "

or " Don't forget

> > to

> > take a shower.....which he has now gone to the other extreme

about and

> > isn't

> > inclined to take one. It is reassuring to know that others are

experiencing

> > this since I didn't know what to make of it. I'm wondering

though, what

> > causes them to react this way and whether there is a way to work

on

> > changing

> > the perception that they are being yelled at. Until I read all

your posts,

> > I

> > thought it was unique to and wasn't sure if it was

connected to his

> > OCD.

>

> I think it has something to do with feeling *controlled.* I remind

my son,

> too-- only to be told 'You're Yelling At Me.'

> This came up in therapy this week, and 's therapist told me to

direct

> all of my talking to my Cabbage Patch Doll. (LOL!!!) At first, I

was

> insulted (I mean-- I'm a little OLD for that and I've never owned

one,

> anyway). Then, I got her point. In other words, this OCD has got

such a

> grip on them, they aren't normal kids with normal reactions. The

slightest

> HINT of feeling *controlled* and off they go, throwing things at

you and

> telling you you're yelling at them or you're 'mad' at them. I

guess that

> this is further proof that they are controlled by other forces

WITHIN them--

> and can't take too much outside pressure from Mom, Dad or anyone.

My own son

> (10) is controlled by FEAR: fear of someone being 'mad' at them

because

> they'll kill them (?), or fear of the pool, fear of poisoning, fear

of germs,

> fear of weather and storms, fear of EYES (and people looking at

him), fear of

> school and WORK in general due to fear of failure and fear of

mistakes, fear

> of riding his bike around the block (a new one) or going outside

because

> someone might cast an evil spell on him, fear of being left alone,

and fear

> of mom talking to that old man with a cane in the grocery check-out

line

> because 'you love HIM more than me' and because 'you'll run off

with him and

> never come back!' geeez

>

> So, yeah.... they have ALOT on their minds... and when you

say 'Don't forget

> to brush' or any ordinary 'parenting thing' that I used to TAKE FOR

GRANTED

> with my older sons--- these OCD kids freak out.

> It has truly been the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered

in my

> entire life. I can't have a simple 'normal' conversation with my

own child.

> Thank God for THERAPISTS!!!

> Joni

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say that my 3 kids have put me through this too.

Still haven't figured out how to handle it either. Plus they seem to

see me as always " mad " - never frustrated, tired, sad, ill, fed up or

any other adjective - just " Mom's mad. " And I can TRY to explain I'm

not feeling mad - but they still seem to see it that way.

And the " yelling " bit. We've gone over this. I guess it's my tone

of voice, getting stern at times I'm reprimanding or asking the 5th

time about homework. I've tried explaining that. Doesn't work.

I'll say, " This isn't yelling, this is my normal voice. "

Then " This is me raising my voice!! "

Then, " THIS IS YELLING!!!! " " I am not yelling. "

They still don't get it.

> In a message dated 8/31/01 2:18:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> vivwasruth2b4@y... writes:

>

> <<

> Ditto to this percieved yelling. >>

>

> I've seen this with too. It seems that he picks up on the

slightest

> tone change in my voice and perceives that as " yelling. " He also

says,

> " Stop yelling at me " when I try talking to him about issues such

as SCHOOL.

> I know I'm not being judgmental or critical...just trying to

discuss things

> that come up like " Did you study for your test tomorrow " or " Don't

forget to

> take a shower.....which he has now gone to the other extreme about

and isn't

> inclined to take one. It is reassuring to know that others are

experiencing

> this since I didn't know what to make of it. I'm wondering

though, what

> causes them to react this way and whether there is a way to work on

changing

> the perception that they are being yelled at. Until I read all your

posts, I

> thought it was unique to and wasn't sure if it was connected

to his

> OCD. It does make for a stressful day when I feel that anything I

may say

> will be thought of as " yelling " at him. I'm hoping we can talk to

his

> therapist about this and maybe try some ERP with it if we can nail

down what

> the obsession/compulsion link is.

> Once again this list has been a real source of information and

support for me

> and I'm so glad to be a part of it!

> /NY

[Guest guest]

Dear Joni, Anne and others,

Yup, Annie is always sure people are being mean to her, yelling at her, excluding her. It makes me so sad. She has always been such a friendly kid, with lots of friends. I see that diminishing each year, as the other kids mature and realize that there is something a bit "off" about her. It breaks my heart. Like Melinda, i am watching my daughter, the only one in her class identified as gifted, struggle with basic fourth grade stuff. Today she left the classroom in tears, overwhelmed by anxiety. Then she couldn't go back in because she was too embarassed. So she helped me in the library (where I happened to be working) until recess. I feel like I'm watching a bright star gradually get dimmer. And the worst part of it all is that they KNOW they are sick. My father died of Alzheimers and the only good thing about that, was that eventually he didn't realize what he didn't realize (he was quite happy believing that he was having lunch with the Green Bay Packers every day in the hospital). But Annie knows it's OCD messing with her brain and HATES it. As do I.

[Guest guest]

Joni:

This is too -- I've also wondered about him being paranoid.

Tamra

Re: you yelled at me

In a message dated 9/3/01 7:23:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AnneGinCT@... writes:

His perception is often off "everybody calls me fat" or "everyone made fun of me because..." when it was probably just one kid with a big mouth. Anne-- This is !!! He thinks "everyone" is making fun of him, picking on him, calling him fat, stupid, whatever.... It really makes me think he's extremely PARANOID at times... and I've fell for it many times too, because he's so convincing and 'traumatized' by all these 'bullies' in his life (where there are none). Ugh. Joni You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , Vivian Stembridge, and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Great advise!!! Thanks Dr. Wagner!!!

Joni

[Guest guest]

To all " yelling " parents:

If you would just stop......(just kidding

Saying " you're yelling at me " is just as common in OCD kids as it is in

non-OCD kids, and can be due to a host of reasons. Some who say it are

sensitive, some are defensive, some are shifting responsibility, some

misperceive verbal or non-verbal cues as threatening, and some can read

right through your calm, controlled demeanour and think, " uh-huh, I did

something again and I don't want to hear about it. "

Whatever the reason behind it, it comes down to the fact that you and your

child have discrepant perceptions of the " yelling " scene. He or she thinks

you are yelling and you are taken by surprise. What I have suggested to

families in this situation is that practically speaking, you have to align

your perceptions to be on the same plane again. This is where the good old

" fear thermometer " (those of you whose children have gone through gradual

exposure are familiar with this) which can be to many creative uses comes in

handy. It can be used to quantify and communicate about any kind of

feeling. In this case, I would label it the " Yelling thermometer " . In a

moment of calm (don't even try this when your child is upset), sit down with

your child and discuss the fact that it might help both of you if you can

see things the same way. Label each anchor point from 1-10 on the therm

with words that are suitable to your context, and discuss what each level of

" yelling " might look like. For example, a 1 is " cool dude " , a 3 is " still

calm enough " , 5 is " getting mad " , 6 is " back off " , 10 is " volcanic

eruption " etc. Children like to make up the labels.

Then you and your child come up with descriptions of what each looks and

sounds like, eg, getting mad is when you have a stern look on your face and

your voice is EXTRA low, volcanic eruption is lava spewing all over the

place etc. The goal of this exercise is to agree on the descriptors ahead

of time, so that your perceptions can now be more objective.

Then, ask your child to use a number next time an episode occurs, instead of

just saying " you're yelling at me " . You can then decide if you would pick a

similar number. If you are widely disparate, you have some more discussing

to do, and maybe there will some eyeopeners for both of you. Parents have

been completely floored to learn that what they thought was absolutely

benign was perceived as very threatening by their child. If you are close

in your judgments, you have made progress and can then move on to discuss

more productive ways to communicate disagreements or upsets. This process

keeps the profound " NO, I'M NOT " , " YES, YOU ARE " dialogue to the minimum.

You and your child can also agree ahead of time on a " leave me alone, I

can't talk right now " number that terminates the dead-end interaction and

saves both of you a lot of grief. " I can't talk right now " must, however be

followed by, " Let's talk later when things are calm " , or else your child has

not learned anything productive from evading the issue. Cue words or colors

are also very helpful--I'm seeing red, hot potatoes, whatever.

And, by the way, this is a lifelong development opportunity for children and

us parents alike! Hope this helps,

Aureen Wagner, Ph.D.